TonyVanDam said:

sosgemini said:

She needs to stop chasing the latest sounds and be confident in the sound she helped make popular. I don't want to hear Mary's voice backed by a song that should be sung by Ciara or Rhiana or whatever third rate Beyonce act is around.

And I don't care if she is drama or drama free...just be u.

Except that the sound MJB & Sean Combs helped make popular is also THE same sound that killed r&b/soul.

THAT sound was hip-hop soul, also known these days as hip-hop/r&b (or shit-hop, as Vainandy & Black.Dot calls it).

Now I don't want all of my fellow orgers to get it twisted. What The 411? is still a classic album. But all of you know damn good an well that the flood of hip-hop soul wannabes that came after MJB's debut year did NOT help improved r&b music at all.

Like I said in a previous thread, just because one artist made it cool don't mean everyone should follow it.

TonyVanDam said:

sosgemini said:

She needs to stop chasing the latest sounds and be confident in the sound she helped make popular. I don't want to hear Mary's voice backed by a song that should be sung by Ciara or Rhiana or whatever third rate Beyonce act is around.

And I don't care if she is drama or drama free...just be u.

Except that the sound MJB & Sean Combs helped make popular is also THE same sound that killed r&b/soul.

THAT sound was hip-hop soul, also known these days as hip-hop/r&b (or shit-hop, as Vainandy & Black.Dot calls it).

Now I don't want all of my fellow orgers to get it twisted. What The 411? is still a classic album. But all of you know damn good an well that the flood of hip-hop soul wannabes that came after MJB's debut year did NOT help improved r&b music at all.

Mary did it better than any of them in the 90s though. I think an album like 1999's Mary is a perfect blueprint for an elevated level of soul production and writing with her shit-hop roots.

In a way, it's like Erykah Badu is making the albums (New Amerykah I & II) and working with the type of hiphop producers Mary maybe should have tried to hook up with. That's evidence that the real formula for hip hop infused soul doesn't have to be corny and plastic like the "rappy rap" on the charts today.

Mary used to record relevant covers too like Al Green, Aretha Franklin shits, but now she's fucking up U2 and Led Zeppelin records. All sensitivity to the direction she may WANT to lead aside - I ain't tryna hear that schitt!

Cinnie said:

TonyVanDam said:

Except that the sound MJB & Sean Combs helped make popular is also THE same sound that killed r&b/soul.

THAT sound was hip-hop soul, also known these days as hip-hop/r&b (or shit-hop, as Vainandy & Black.Dot calls it).

Now I don't want all of my fellow orgers to get it twisted. What The 411? is still a classic album. But all of you know damn good an well that the flood of hip-hop soul wannabes that came after MJB's debut year did NOT help improved r&b music at all.

Mary did it better than any of them in the 90s though. I think an album like 1999's Mary is a perfect blueprint for an elevated level of soul production and writing with her shit-hop roots.

In a way, it's like Erykah Badu is making the albums (New Amerykah I & II) and working with the type of hiphop producers Mary maybe should have tried to hook up with. That's evidence that the real formula for hip hop infused soul doesn't have to be corny and plastic like the "rappy rap" on the charts today.

Mary used to record relevant covers too like Al Green, Aretha Franklin shits, but now she's fucking up U2 and Led Zeppelin records. All sensitivity to the direction she may WANT to lead aside - I ain't tryna hear that schitt!

That "Stairway to Heaven" cover was horrendous, never got the appeal of the "One" duet either. Her covers of soul classics used to be the shit though.

timmy I remember what an mary j blige stan you used to be I think she's cool too, but I liked her more in the 90's, and since the 00's it's been hit and miss and more about the singles IMO

alphastreet said:

timmy I remember what an mary j blige stan you used to be I think she's cool too, but I liked her more in the 90's, and since the 00's it's been hit and miss and more about the singles IMO

I'm still a fan, don't get me wrong but it's dropped down a peg since like '07.

Timmy84 said:

alphastreet said:

timmy I remember what an mary j blige stan you used to be I think she's cool too, but I liked her more in the 90's, and since the 00's it's been hit and miss and more about the singles IMO

I'm still a fan, don't get me wrong but it's dropped down a peg since like '07.

I wonder why 2007 and not 2006 cause she didn't release anything between 2006 and 2008 Just bugging you

The stuff that didn't make to the albums between 2005 and this year are fantastic. I never could understand why they remained unreleased.

And word out to Tony, people hype her for her work with Puffy, but the stuff she did from Share My World to No More Drama were legendary to me. And no matter who she worked with, she put her stamp into it, "Stronger With Each Tear" sounds like a collection of producers tracks than Mary tracks, there's no much individuality in them. But the stuff that stayed outside of the album cuts are cool.

Harlepolis said:

The stuff that didn't make to the albums between 2005 and this year are fantastic. I never could understand why they remained unreleased.

And word out to Tony, people hype her for her work with Puffy, but the stuff she did from Share My World to No More Drama were legendary to me. And no matter who she worked with, she put her stamp into it, "Stronger With Each Tear" sounds like a collection of producers tracks than Mary tracks, there's no much individuality in them. But the stuff that stayed outside of the album cuts are cool.

hare my world and mary are brilliant records, I love the no more drama period too. Not Gon Cry is one of her best songs too, she had so many good singles in the 90's

I think this thread would benefit from posting "gems" from her post-No More Drama work. I'm not hearing the same album as y'all if The Breakthrough was really much better than Love & Life.

I used to worship her when she first came out but lost intrest in her around the "Mary" album. Although I do like "be without you" and "family affair"

Harlepolis said:

The stuff that didn't make to the albums between 2005 and this year are fantastic. I never could understand why they remained unreleased.

And word out to Tony, people hype her for her work with Puffy, but the stuff she did from Share My World to No More Drama were legendary to me. And no matter who she worked with, she put her stamp into it, "Stronger With Each Tear" sounds like a collection of producers tracks than Mary tracks, there's no much individuality in them. But the stuff that stayed outside of the album cuts are cool.

I hear you. I just still can NOT get over the damage Sean Combs has done to r&b/soul. But hell yeah, Mary did herself some justice without him.

Cinnie said:

I think this thread would benefit from posting "gems" from her post-No More Drama work. I'm not hearing the same album as y'all if The Breakthrough was really much better than Love & Life.

I preferred Love & Life over The Breakthrough myself.

Cinnie said:

I think this thread would benefit from posting "gems" from her post-No More Drama work. I'm not hearing the same album as y'all if The Breakthrough was really much better than Love & Life.

I love L&L but it was sloppy comparing to The Breakthrough. And I hate corny reunions. Here these two people who grew apart together, had to be locked up in a studio together after many years just for the sake of nostalgia.

If Mary wanted to revive that "My Life" vibe, she should've worked with Chucky Thompson NOT Puffy, because he was the man who really laid down the music for "My Life". Puffy was the just 3rd wheel who *surprise surprise* slapped his name in the credits.

Harlepolis said:

she should've worked with Chucky Thompson

Harlepolis said:

she should've worked with Chucky Thompson

Harlepolis said:

she should've worked with Chucky Thompson

Harlepolis said:

she should've worked with Chucky Thompson

Harlepolis said:

she should've worked with Chucky Thompson

[Edited 1/9/11 11:21am]

mary is so of the people

she's not really my thing, never has been much cept for Real Love and Family Affair

but you just kind of have to give it up to her

she had 80,000 people in the palm of her hand at essence...i was there for janet, jill, ewf...but...she won the crowd the hardest of all of em...everyone got up and left and left ewf playing to half a house. that tv one special was edited but in reality the hall was empty after her show

idk why but there is something so universal about her and her struggle and lyrics and so relatable

if there ever truly was r&b's version of madonna...it's mary...plain and simple

She won them over because that's her audience.

Cinnie said:

TonyVanDam said:

Except that the sound MJB & Sean Combs helped make popular is also THE same sound that killed r&b/soul.

THAT sound was hip-hop soul, also known these days as hip-hop/r&b (or shit-hop, as Vainandy & Black.Dot calls it).

Now I don't want all of my fellow orgers to get it twisted. What The 411? is still a classic album. But all of you know damn good an well that the flood of hip-hop soul wannabes that came after MJB's debut year did NOT help improved r&b music at all.

Mary did it better than any of them in the 90s though. I think an album like 1999's Mary is a perfect blueprint for an elevated level of soul production and writing with her shit-hop roots.

In a way, it's like Erykah Badu is making the albums (New Amerykah I & II) and working with the type of hiphop producers Mary maybe should have tried to hook up with. That's evidence that the real formula for hip hop infused soul doesn't have to be corny and plastic like the "rappy rap" on the charts today.

Mary used to record relevant covers too like Al Green, Aretha Franklin shits, but now she's fucking up U2 and Led Zeppelin records. All sensitivity to the direction she may WANT to lead aside - I ain't tryna hear that schitt!

sosgemini said:

Cinnie said:

Mary did it better than any of them in the 90s though. I think an album like 1999's Mary is a perfect blueprint for an elevated level of soul production and writing with her shit-hop roots.

In a way, it's like Erykah Badu is making the albums (New Amerykah I & II) and working with the type of hiphop producers Mary maybe should have tried to hook up with. That's evidence that the real formula for hip hop infused soul doesn't have to be corny and plastic like the "rappy rap" on the charts today.

Mary used to record relevant covers too like Al Green, Aretha Franklin shits, but now she's fucking up U2 and Led Zeppelin records. All sensitivity to the direction she may WANT to lead aside - I ain't tryna hear that schitt!

Nique

I loved this from "The Breakthrough". The rap is a little weak, though.

This is also one of my favs on the albums.

[Edited 1/9/11 17:56pm]

daPrettyman said:

I loved this from "The Breakthrough". The rap is a little weak, though.

This is also one of my favs on the albums.

[Edited 1/9/11 17:56pm]

She brought the Aretha sound to "I Found My Everything". Love it.

Timmy84 said:

daPrettyman said:

I loved this from "The Breakthrough". The rap is a little weak, though.

This is also one of my favs on the albums.

[Edited 1/9/11 17:56pm]

She brought the Aretha sound to "I Found My Everything". Love it.

I know...that and I Can See In Color are the two best she came out with in A LOONG time

I liked her stuff up until "Drama," but I have 2 say, her reading of "P.M.S." is R&B mastery; same as "I Can See in Color." Both should have been singles cuz so many can relate 2 'em. It seems that she's losing her edge these days. She also has to realize that she's not a belter like Chaka or Patti (with vibrato). It only makes her look like she can't sing when she goes 4 notes like those. My own observation, of course.

During the Mary period, I wasn't feeling her then cause I thought she can't beat Share My World, it took me years to really appreciate that era.

As for post No More Drama days which I also loved, I was obsessed with Be Without You for a very long time, and also loved Enough Crying, which I can actually relate to right now

[Edited 1/11/11 1:46am]

MJB-related, the Queen of Hip-Hop Soul just hit the big 4-0.

I never really liked her music nor the way she sings, I had tolerated her a minute and now I think it's safe for me to say that I could live w/o her music. I dig some of the songs, but they have no replay value for me.

What about her recent output ? It's mostly trash with a couple of things that I like : I dug Just Fine for example and I dug one song on "Stronger with each tears". I can't remember what it was called, it was a strong balad with an incredible climax.

[Edited 1/11/11 3:08am]

silverchild said:

I'm assuming we are only focusing on her work from 2000-now, post-Mary era???

Here's how I break it down:

No More Drama: Solid LP that seemed to be a more modern and comtemporary sequel to What's the 411?, but it just was too overlong, guests were drowning her out on many cuts, and same ole stuff about her getting her heart broken, women intuition, falling in and out of love, etc... The singles that were released from this album were annoying too.

Love & Life: One of her worst, same ole shit she was talking about since she first came out. The crazy part about it is her and Diddy were trying to recapture the spirit of My Life, but it fell apart as it first came in. I did like "It's A Wrap" and "When We," but I was tired of it by that point.

The Breakthrough: I gotta admit that this was one of her better records, but I couldn't help but wonder when this lady was gonna start talking about something new. Definitely one of her best production-wise, but I was still underwhelmed that the same stuff she has been talking about since '91. I also felt she was just coasting during this time.

Growing Pains: This was the last thing I ever brought by her and probably the last thing I will ever purchase by her. I have to say that this was the best overall record she has done post-Mary era for the simple fact I wasn't getting just drama-filled songs, there was actually getting some variety for the first time since...well, I don't know. Oh, and remember this came out 4 years ago.

Final Verdict: Her selling point for all her music has always been about talking about the heartbreaks and drama. I have gotten tired of it a long time ago. Her recent stuff is just...let's just say her finest stuff was in the 90's, peaking with the Mary LP. After that, she's simply been coasting on the same stuff and hell even after My Life, she was coasting and focusing on the same shit.

Timmy84 said:

daPrettyman said:

Do you think Kendu has anything to do with the downward spiral after Breakthrough?

YEP!

seconded, thirded and "forthded"

missfee said:

silverchild said:

I'm assuming we are only focusing on her work from 2000-now, post-Mary era???

Here's how I break it down:

No More Drama: Solid LP that seemed to be a more modern and comtemporary sequel to What's the 411?, but it just was too overlong, guests were drowning her out on many cuts, and same ole stuff about her getting her heart broken, women intuition, falling in and out of love, etc... The singles that were released from this album were annoying too.

Love & Life: One of her worst, same ole shit she was talking about since she first came out. The crazy part about it is her and Diddy were trying to recapture the spirit of My Life, but it fell apart as it first came in. I did like "It's A Wrap" and "When We," but I was tired of it by that point.

The Breakthrough: I gotta admit that this was one of her better records, but I couldn't help but wonder when this lady was gonna start talking about something new. Definitely one of her best production-wise, but I was still underwhelmed that the same stuff she has been talking about since '91. I also felt she was just coasting during this time.

Growing Pains: This was the last thing I ever brought by her and probably the last thing I will ever purchase by her. I have to say that this was the best overall record she has done post-Mary era for the simple fact I wasn't getting just drama-filled songs, there was actually getting some variety for the first time since...well, I don't know. Oh, and remember this came out 4 years ago.

Final Verdict: Her selling point for all her music has always been about talking about the heartbreaks and drama. I have gotten tired of it a long time ago. Her recent stuff is just...let's just say her finest stuff was in the 90's, peaking with the Mary LP. After that, she's simply been coasting on the same stuff and hell even after My Life, she was coasting and focusing on the same shit.

I thought that was a great review! And I found When We, Willing And Waiting and Its A Wrap to be the best songs on Love N Life too.... I hope she tries soemthing new in subject matter, but not holding a candle