MattyJam said:

Glindathegood said:

Are you saying that all contemporary music is garbage? What is garbage to you may be another person's treasure. I object to the term "real musicians". I love music with live instruments, but people who do electronic or synthesized music are real musicians as well. An untalented person can buy a guitar and make a crappy record with that as well. It actually does take talent to make a good electronic dance song.

To me there is good music and bad music being made now, just like there was in the past. Not everything from the 80's was great either.

It seems kind of snobbish to keep out people who want to make music and say only people who you approve of are allowed in the industry.

Like it or not, people do see music as entertainment. Something that's fun and makes them happy and smile. Why do people buy french fries? Because they taste good and they like them. It's the same with music. You want everything to be deep and artistic, but people like fun pop songs to take them away from the pain of everyday life. Of course there should still be a place for deeper artistic music, but you can't take the fun and superficial side out of music. It is entertainment after all.

Nobody is saying that you have to play a real instrument to make a great song. But the vast majority of the top 40 today is made up of songs using drum machines and synths - it's the pro-tools generation gone mad. Whilst everything has its place and there's nothing wrong with music made on a computer, the lack of current contemporary artists who have the ability to play an instrument is shockingly low, particularly if you're looking for it in the top 40.

Who's todays guitar God? Where's the Hendrix or Santana or even Slash and Prince of the 21st century? Where are the great rock bands of today? Kings of Leon? Puh-lease! Gimme a break.

[Edited 1/8/11 9:02am]

Its all about technique and the methods of what you are recording, alot of it is same old same old, i mean, take the "processed" RB sound? can you tell Keri Hilson from Ciara? thats not saying that they suck, but theres no seperation or growing.

You can't compare sports and music. They are statistics by which people determine whether someone is a good player or not. There aren't those same statistics for music. It's all a matter of personal taste.

Now I agree that a lot of R&B music sounds the same, but that's not a function of them using electronics, it's a function of the people doing it lacking creativity. There's a lot of similiar sounding generic rock music as well.

You think AHA is the greatest band ever. Trust me there are a lot of people who think they are laughable and not great musicians.

Are you saying that a part of Prince, MJ, Madonna etc's appeal wasn't that they wrote catchy pop songs and they were all about art? I like all those artists but a lot of it is I love singing and dancing to their songs. Nothing more than that.

Glindathegood said:

You can't compare sports and music. They are statistics by which people determine whether someone is a good player or not. There aren't those same statistics for music. It's all a matter of personal taste.

Now I agree that a lot of R&B music sounds the same, but that's not a function of them using electronics, it's a function of the people doing it lacking creativity. There's a lot of similiar sounding generic rock music as well.

You think AHA is the greatest band ever. Trust me there are a lot of people who think they are laughable and not great musicians.

Are you saying that a part of Prince, MJ, Madonna etc's appeal wasn't that they wrote catchy pop songs and they were all about art? I like all those artists but a lot of it is I love singing and dancing to their songs. Nothing more than that.

Actually i said the greatest band to me, because its irrelevant what anyone thinks of a-ha in America because no one in america basically has heard all the albums start to finish so they cant have a "valued" opinion. But true its about taste, i mean look at Prince, i think Chaos and Disorder was a great record others say it was shit and filler. I do disagree though on the RB thing, it is a production of the music, i mean name an RB band today? and dont say Mint Condition because they are two decades old already, remember how RB was a live sound? You can make a great record with eletronics, two of my fave albums of the year are almost build around that idea, Duran Duran's latest, and the Band APPARATJIK, now the latter is based heavily around the programming sound, features a member of Coldplay and a-ha and also from the band the Mew.

Part of what are you saying about Madonna and MJ is true, but ALSO why no one regards anything that they have done post 80's as good, which is totally wrong, to me a song like 1999 is a great party song and has its place, but so does a song like "reflection" or "sometimes it snows in april" i mean people tend to dismiss something artistic as boring and only things you can move to as good? I mean look at the Bee Gees, sure they part of the disco phase and that period was great, but look at their other songs like "Words" or "new york mining disaster" or "how can you mend a broken heart" or "lonely days" and you have the full artistry.

The thing it comes down to is where is it going? A person like Timbaland to me is not a producer, he makes beats and sounds. Some are catchy and hits, but, he isnt growing any artists like a producer should be.

It still seems to me that you think beats and sounds are necessarily bad. What about rap and hip hop. It's all based around beats and not instruments. Is it lacking artistic value? What about an artist like 2-Pac. I don't like rap that much but I love some of his songs.

Contemporary "R&B" isn't like the R&B of the Motown Era. It's really hip hop made accessible to people. Hip hop is about the beats.

I'm not saying good music is only about stuff you can move to, but even the deeper songs by Madonna that I enjoy, I still enjoy the melodies and find them catchy and something I want to listen to. I don't know about Prince or MJ, but on her recent even more dance albums, Madonna has always done a few deeper softer songs. So to say it's all about the beat is not the case.

If you're an artist, why do you need a producer to tell you to grow. That's up to you unless you are a total puppet. I think Timbaland gets a bad rap. I personally don't like HC by Madonna but Red Carpet Massacre by Duran Duran was a fantastic album. It wasn't lacking so called artistic value to me but some fans were determined to hate it because they were so against Timbaland. Not everything he is involved with is automatically bad.

I dont think beats are bad, its what you can do with what you are doing, where is it going and is it evolving, to me u have to be growing and challenging, if its all about having a good time and partying, it hits a wall after awhile, i mean i can only take so many party songs in a row till im like "this is all sounding the same" i mean look at hip hop a Huge portion of it is based in this party/cub vibe, but how many times can you hear "come to the vip and get with me" before you wanna jump off a building, granted there are good party songs and bad ones, good ballads and bad ones etc...But im saying the process in which most everyone is doing things now is way to narrow, no one is stepping out, i mean Rihanna can have a catchy pop song and i'll dig it, but she is another class as say someone like Amerie who is creating her own music, producing and writing it, she has that final say in where it goes, Rihanna is being steered by what is out there, not saying she sucks or doesnt deserve the time but someone like AMeriie or Teedra Moses deserves just as much play to broaden the scope of RB or else it becomes one sound one production which limits it and then you have everyone trying to be like that, and then that results in talent issues.

Now one issue i do have with "Beats"is if you make music based on others music, sampling and i know thats not the topic here, but, when you are building off what someone else has already done, that to me isnt artistic on the same level, you are just re-hashing someone else's work

Harlepolis said:

Moonbeam said:

There are lots of real musicians still making vibrant and excellent music today! Shrinking radio playlists and an increasingly ADD public have pushed most of them out of the mainstream, though.

THAT^^^

If you're looking for real musicians in mainstream mediums, then that was your FIRST mistake. The indie scene is booming with so many great talents, and nowadays you have the advantage of finding their music just a single click away.

Agreed and agreed!

I am reading some very good answers here

lastdecember said:

I dont think beats are bad, its what you can do with what you are doing, where is it going and is it evolving, to me u have to be growing and challenging, if its all about having a good time and partying, it hits a wall after awhile, i mean i can only take so many party songs in a row till im like "this is all sounding the same" i mean look at hip hop a Huge portion of it is based in this party/cub vibe, but how many times can you hear "come to the vip and get with me" before you wanna jump off a building, granted there are good party songs and bad ones, good ballads and bad ones etc...But im saying the process in which most everyone is doing things now is way to narrow, no one is stepping out, i mean Rihanna can have a catchy pop song and i'll dig it, but she is another class as say someone like Amerie who is creating her own music, producing and writing it, she has that final say in where it goes, Rihanna is being steered by what is out there, not saying she sucks or doesnt deserve the time but someone like AMeriie or Teedra Moses deserves just as much play to broaden the scope of RB or else it becomes one sound one production which limits it and then you have everyone trying to be like that, and then that results in talent issues.

Now one issue i do have with "Beats"is if you make music based on others music, sampling and i know thats not the topic here, but, when you are building off what someone else has already done, that to me isnt artistic on the same level, you are just re-hashing someone else's work

It's clear that you don't listen to 'hip-hop' outside of what is played on the radio. Most of those songs don't use samples in the first place.

minneapolisFunq said:

lastdecember said:

I dont think beats are bad, its what you can do with what you are doing, where is it going and is it evolving, to me u have to be growing and challenging, if its all about having a good time and partying, it hits a wall after awhile, i mean i can only take so many party songs in a row till im like "this is all sounding the same" i mean look at hip hop a Huge portion of it is based in this party/cub vibe, but how many times can you hear "come to the vip and get with me" before you wanna jump off a building, granted there are good party songs and bad ones, good ballads and bad ones etc...But im saying the process in which most everyone is doing things now is way to narrow, no one is stepping out, i mean Rihanna can have a catchy pop song and i'll dig it, but she is another class as say someone like Amerie who is creating her own music, producing and writing it, she has that final say in where it goes, Rihanna is being steered by what is out there, not saying she sucks or doesnt deserve the time but someone like AMeriie or Teedra Moses deserves just as much play to broaden the scope of RB or else it becomes one sound one production which limits it and then you have everyone trying to be like that, and then that results in talent issues.

Now one issue i do have with "Beats"is if you make music based on others music, sampling and i know thats not the topic here, but, when you are building off what someone else has already done, that to me isnt artistic on the same level, you are just re-hashing someone else's work

It's clear that you don't listen to 'hip-hop' outside of what is played on the radio. Most of those songs don't use samples in the first place.

I havent listened to radio since 1985, radio is not even relevant anymore in the world. Sampling is used alot and not just in HipHop or RB its used in rock and pop too, when something says "containing a ______ of" that to me is a sample, you'll find this on almost every Mariah Carey album the last 15 years. It happens alot, and its used to by people that get played and dont get played. Alot of what is done now is using minor sections of a song that has been done so you dont have to give credit for it, this is a new trend now.