I have noticed this past decade that there has not been no strong R&B woman in the charts lately who has never really raised any standards lately for R&B music

A part of me thinks that Beyonce's popularity is partially to blame because ever since Beyonce became this huge star every upcoming R&B diva wants to be like her and follow her formula.

With the exception of Alicia Keys who made it big before Beyonce went solo and Rihanna who eventually saved her career by reinventing herself no other R&B diva has really had the chance to become stars

I remember in pre Beyonce era there was a good array of R&B ladies like the late Aaliyah, Monica, Tweet, Amerie, Floetry, Indie Arie, Vivian Green, Heather Headely, and the more popular one Ashanti who showed great promise and great direction. Every woman was different and she had her own style but when Beyonce came along in 2003 and started a whole craze of songs i have noticed that almost every woman tried to follow her and eventually that was what happened with Amerie with this One Thing which screams Beyonce formula.

I am not trying to villianize Beyonce but a part me thinks that if Beyone had not become a huge star would we see a more colorful array of R&B female stars i pay attention to the Grammys, BET, NAACP,Soul Train Awards and it is very frustrating seeing Beyonce win every award every year whereas other women have better music substance and they hardly get credit for it.

No.

Its just a simple case of the ol' "One negro/negress at a time" scenario. There's still a BIG place in the market for female R&B singers, just not in the mainstream, and come to think of it, R&B has never been mainstream on a collective level, only a few names from it make it to the pop radio and the rest get their share in the "black radio", so this is nothing new.

Couple with the fact that major labels doesn't even try to show their contempt against R&B singers nowadays(hence how they market them and how they try to devoid them from any individuality), and thats why 3/4 of them went independent, and rightfully so. Then again, when has they ever been kind to R&B sirens? The upside of this scenario though is, these ladies won't have to get robbed off of their hard work, the downside is you'll only see a released album once every 3-4 years, that is if none of them bothered to release any mixtapes in the meantime.

[Edited 12/26/10 1:02am]

actually, I think she's done a lot to keep the r&b scene for women alive while the urban charts are off on this MJ-wannabe crowd with euro-house beats masquerading as soul tangent.

Harlepolis said:

No.

Its just a simple case of the ol' "One negro/negress at a time" scenario. There's still a BIG place in the market for female R&B singers, just not in the mainstream, and come to think of it, R&B has never been mainstream on a collective level, only a few names from it make it to the pop radio and the rest get their share in the "black radio", so this is nothing new.

Couple with the fact that major labels doesn't even try to show their contempt against R&B singers nowadays(hence how they market them and how they try to devoid them from any individuality), and thats why 3/4 of them went independent, and rightfully so. Then again, when has they ever been kind to R&B sirens? The upside of this scenario though is, these ladies won't have to get robbed off of their hard work, the downside is you'll only see a released album once every 3-4 years, that is if none of them bothered to release any mixtapes in the meantime.

[Edited 12/26/10 1:02am]

There's an unwritten rule in the industry that there can only be one black female superstar in a given era and right now it's Beyonce and everyone else basically plays second fiddle. Acts like Rihanna & Alicia Keys have found crossover success but for the most part Knowles is the one that's dominant. It's like a President, Vice President, then everyone else complex. She's in command, Keys is runner up, while Fenty's Speaker of the House. Ashanti, Ciara, Keri, and all the rest don't get to stand behind the podium so to speak because they don't rank high enough.

Is Alicia Keys still big in America? I havent heard anything from her in years. But overseas (or at least in australia) Rihanna is just as big as Beyonce, and has been for a few years, so I think its upgraded to two black females at a time.

Arnotts said:

Harlepolis said:

No.

Its just a simple case of the ol' "One negro/negress at a time" scenario. There's still a BIG place in the market for female R&B singers, just not in the mainstream, and come to think of it, R&B has never been mainstream on a collective level, only a few names from it make it to the pop radio and the rest get their share in the "black radio", so this is nothing new.

Couple with the fact that major labels doesn't even try to show their contempt against R&B singers nowadays(hence how they market them and how they try to devoid them from any individuality), and thats why 3/4 of them went independent, and rightfully so. Then again, when has they ever been kind to R&B sirens? The upside of this scenario though is, these ladies won't have to get robbed off of their hard work, the downside is you'll only see a released album once every 3-4 years, that is if none of them bothered to release any mixtapes in the meantime.

[Edited 12/26/10 1:02am]

I agree, but if you want variety in R&B, listen to Neo Soul. I find the intergrity genre more true to self and the playing field is a bit more leveled. You can listen to Goepele, India.Arie, Erykah and so many others without feeling you have heard it all before.

Harlepolis said:

No.

Its just a simple case of the ol' "One negro/negress at a time" scenario. There's still a BIG place in the market for female R&B singers, just not in the mainstream, and come to think of it, R&B has never been mainstream on a collective level, only a few names from it make it to the pop radio and the rest get their share in the "black radio", so this is nothing new.

Couple with the fact that major labels doesn't even try to show their contempt against R&B singers nowadays(hence how they market them and how they try to devoid them from any individuality), and thats why 3/4 of them went independent, and rightfully so. Then again, when has they ever been kind to R&B sirens? The upside of this scenario though is, these ladies won't have to get robbed off of their hard work, the downside is you'll only see a released album once every 3-4 years, that is if none of them bothered to release any mixtapes in the meantime.

[Edited 12/26/10 1:02am]

i have to totally agree with all this. RB females are wide spanning, U have everyone from Amerie to Teedra Moses to Angie Stone to Janelle to Rihanna and Beyonce, the thing is that out of that Beyonce is and Rihanna are the only ones that are marketable to "white" america. And honestly Rihanna and Beyonce are really doing the same things, Rihanna is just more "pop" than Beyonce. This is also why u have NIkki Minaj, she is marketable because, well, look at her, she is a freaking barbie doll model, that market covers all for her, but if you think that another "black" female rapper is going to get through at the same time, ure smoking.

What does fall through the cracks are some great albums because of this, but like it was mentioned, artists like Amerie, Teedra Moses and Mya have all released numerous underground mixtapes, and Tearria Mari has come out with 3 this year alone, thats really all you can do, the mainstream is narrow now, it cant handle more than one or maybe two at a time. Its very sad because u take the mainstream say in 1985, and look at the wide range in a genre, and then think of WHO wouldnt have a chance today with todays mindset.

So like u said this is very true, but i even feel now that "Black" radio has abandoned its support of the RB ladies, there seems to be nonstop hate going on within and twittering BS back and forth, instead of maybe actually trying to reverse these things.

But i do recommend the route that Teedra,Amerie and Tearria are taking over any false idea of chart hits and things like that, thats all over with now.

I don't consider Beyonce as an R&B act. All of her songs are pop & dance.

in terms of actual success i think alicia keys has consistantly outdone beyonce, its just that the hype around beyonce is far greater than her accomplishments. when you look at it realistically she hasnt really done anything special, at least nothing i havnt seen before, maybe for this new generation she is shuttin shit down.she is constantly called the biggest this or that of the decade yet she dont top none of the decade ending charts.her marketing and hype machine is excellent though and the beyonce/jayz pairing up thing was genious.

lowkey said:

in terms of actual success i think alicia keys has consistantly outdone beyonce, its just that the hype around beyonce is far greater than her accomplishments. when you look at it realistically she hasnt really done anything special, at least nothing i havnt seen before, maybe for this new generation she is shuttin shit down.she is constantly called the biggest this or that of the decade yet she dont top none of the decade ending charts.her marketing and hype machine is excellent though and the beyonce/jayz pairing up thing was genious.

to be honest i think Alicia is on a whole another planet musically then beyonce, totally different worlds and im praying that those worlds dont get "closer", i mean i know they did that song and tour together, but Alicia to me is more of a musician and in control of what she does than Beyonce, to me regardless of how BIG beyonce has become, i still feel like someone is directing and pulling her strings

The r&b scene was ruined BEFORE Beyonce & Destiny's Child.

All blame goes to producer Sean Combs (via using Mary J. Blige as his muse at the time) for inventing hip-hop soul, which was hip-hop tracks at the downtempo of 95 BPM (a tactic Sean copied from Dr.Dre!) and singing vocals.

Because of THIS^, r&b/soul was "killed" and replace with hip-hop/r&b.

The End.

musicjunky318 said:

There's an unwritten rule in the industry that there can only be one black female superstar in a given era and right now it's Beyonce and everyone else basically plays second fiddle. Acts like Rihanna & Alicia Keys have found crossover success but for the most part Knowles is the one that's dominant. It's like a President, Vice President, then everyone else complex. She's in command, Keys is runner up, while Fenty's Speaker of the House. Ashanti, Ciara, Keri, and all the rest don't get to stand behind the podium so to speak because they don't rank high enough.

If that's the case, then why there is room in the industry for Beyonce, Rhianna, AND Nicki Minaj to co-exist for the moment (conspiracy theories aside of course)?!? Remember, all three are black females.

I think Jazmine Sullivan should be more popular , she doesn't have the "look" to market her I guess.

TonyVanDam said:

musicjunky318 said:

There's an unwritten rule in the industry that there can only be one black female superstar in a given era and right now it's Beyonce and everyone else basically plays second fiddle. Acts like Rihanna & Alicia Keys have found crossover success but for the most part Knowles is the one that's dominant. It's like a President, Vice President, then everyone else complex. She's in command, Keys is runner up, while Fenty's Speaker of the House. Ashanti, Ciara, Keri, and all the rest don't get to stand behind the podium so to speak because they don't rank high enough.

If that's the case, then why there is room in the industry for Beyonce, Rhianna, AND Nicki Minaj to co-exist for the moment (conspiracy theories aside of course)?!? Remember, all three are black females.

The keyword was superstar. I didn't say they couldn't co-exist but there's always one that stands out from the pack.

I swear this site is a music snob haven.

Are you seriously blaming Beyonce because all these other female R&B artists are lazy as hell? No. She's not to blame. No one's stopping other female R&B artists from doing what they want to do. MJB is 20 years deep into her career and still pulling in decent numbers. It can happen for the other females if they create their brand, sound and image. For some reason R&B artists today think they can hop on the scene with a hypersexualized single or build their whole image from other R&B superstars and call it a day. It doesn't work that way.

trueiopian said:

I swear this site is a music snob haven.

Are you seriously blaming Beyonce because all these other female R&B artists are lazy as hell? No. She's not to blame. No one's stopping other female R&B artists from doing what they want to do. MJB is 20 years deep into her career and still pulling in decent numbers. It can happen for the other females if they create their brand, sound and image. For some reason R&B artists today think they can hop on the scene with a hypersexualized single or build their whole image from other R&B superstars and call it a day. It doesn't work that way.

Since when Rihanna is an R&B artist?

I dont think the issue is anyone's laziness, i mean we arent talking about Lil Kim and Foxxy Brown tweeting nonsense and all that. Also we have to remember this exists just as much with RB males as much as females. I think u all remember the 80's where Lionel could crossover and Luther never could. Thats what we are discussing here, not someones output, cause most of these ladies mentioned have just as much output as Beyonce, and i dont think its a blame game either, its more that "crossover" u have to fit a certain mold, Beyonce is marketable to white america, someone like Mya or Teedra Moses isnt, so they can all cut shitloads of albums and music but they are going to be confined to just a shot on rb radio, and any attempts at a more "pop" approach is often viewed as being desperate.

And creating your own sound, well we know what that gets U, especially if you are signed to the same label as a so called icon and they want that sound too. Whether we like it or not, it is a image game at the end of the day, Beyonce has the look, and Rihanna is her successor, i dont care how hard you push someone like Teedra Moses or Amerie (who are light years more creative) they would NEVER sell to white america.

lastdecember said:

I dont think the issue is anyone's laziness, i mean we arent talking about Lil Kim and Foxxy Brown tweeting nonsense and all that. Also we have to remember this exists just as much with RB males as much as females. I think u all remember the 80's where Lionel could crossover and Luther never could. Thats what we are discussing here, not someones output, cause most of these ladies mentioned have just as much output as Beyonce, and i dont think its a blame game either, its more that "crossover" u have to fit a certain mold, Beyonce is marketable to white america, someone like Mya or Teedra Moses isnt, so they can all cut shitloads of albums and music but they are going to be confined to just a shot on rb radio, and any attempts at a more "pop" approach is often viewed as being desperate.

And creating your own sound, well we know what that gets U, especially if you are signed to the same label as a so called icon and they want that sound too. Whether we like it or not, it is a image game at the end of the day, Beyonce has the look, and Rihanna is her successor, i dont care how hard you push someone like Teedra Moses or Amerie (who are light years more creative) they would NEVER sell to white america.

It's a certain sound mixed with a certain image. In the 60s Aretha found crossover support, you had Gladys, you had Patti, but Diana was the one that dominated with the Supremes. No black female had ever seen the kind of response she did. In a one-on-one singing battle with the three most would agree that Ross would have probably lost but so what? It was more than vocal ability. It was PR, it was the terrific songwriting team, it was the amazing clothes, you know, all of that mattered and made her the icon she is. Every decade has a leading lady. In the 80s it was Whitney Houston. In the 90s, there was Mary J, there was Toni Braxton, but for the most part Janet Jackson stood supreme. In early 2003 as Beyonce prepared to launch her solo career Ashanti had some hits, Brandy & Monica were still around, Rihanna debuted two years later but Bee is the one that's victorious. Soon she'll sit herself down, or forcefully be sat down, and someone new will emerge.

I've been listening a great deal to The ArchAndroid lately and come to think of the discussion, I don't think the R&B scene is ruined or "killed".

There's SO much to explore from this whole year alone, many of the stuff is pretty interesting, and you got the advantage to look for it in a matter of a few seconds. The days of relying on Radio/TV to feed you high priced shit on a silver spoon should be OVER.

We're so hell bent on clinking with the idea of R&B being "dead" that we ended up missing a lot of good things that weren't produced in 197?.

musicjunky318 said:

lastdecember said:

I dont think the issue is anyone's laziness, i mean we arent talking about Lil Kim and Foxxy Brown tweeting nonsense and all that. Also we have to remember this exists just as much with RB males as much as females. I think u all remember the 80's where Lionel could crossover and Luther never could. Thats what we are discussing here, not someones output, cause most of these ladies mentioned have just as much output as Beyonce, and i dont think its a blame game either, its more that "crossover" u have to fit a certain mold, Beyonce is marketable to white america, someone like Mya or Teedra Moses isnt, so they can all cut shitloads of albums and music but they are going to be confined to just a shot on rb radio, and any attempts at a more "pop" approach is often viewed as being desperate.

And creating your own sound, well we know what that gets U, especially if you are signed to the same label as a so called icon and they want that sound too. Whether we like it or not, it is a image game at the end of the day, Beyonce has the look, and Rihanna is her successor, i dont care how hard you push someone like Teedra Moses or Amerie (who are light years more creative) they would NEVER sell to white america.

It's a certain sound mixed with a certain image. In the 60s Aretha found crossover support, you had Gladys, you had Patti, but Diana was the one that dominated with the Supremes. No black female had ever seen the kind of response she did. In a one-on-one singing battle with the three most would agree that Ross would have probably lost but so what? It was more than vocal ability. It was PR, it was the terrific songwriting team, it was the amazing clothes, you know, all of that mattered and made her the icon she is. Every decade has a leading lady. In the 80s it was Whitney Houston. In the 90s, there was Mary J, there was Toni Braxton, but for the most part Janet Jackson stood supreme. In early 2003 as Beyonce prepared to launch her solo career Ashanti had some hits, Brandy & Monica were still around, Rihanna debuted two years later but Bee is the one that's victorious. Soon she'll sit herself down, or forcefully be sat down, and someone new will emerge.

overall though mainstream is just not equipped to handle alot of anything, like i have said, there would be NO WAY this mainstream could handle a selection like there was say in 1987...Prince,Madonna,Bruce,George,Lionel,Richard Marx,Taylor Dayne,and lots more, and these were artists that just didnt have a single or two, i mean they had 5-6 a year all getting play, the time is different now because no one knows good or bad or how to mix up the marketing

musicjunky318 said:

lastdecember said:

I dont think the issue is anyone's laziness, i mean we arent talking about Lil Kim and Foxxy Brown tweeting nonsense and all that. Also we have to remember this exists just as much with RB males as much as females. I think u all remember the 80's where Lionel could crossover and Luther never could. Thats what we are discussing here, not someones output, cause most of these ladies mentioned have just as much output as Beyonce, and i dont think its a blame game either, its more that "crossover" u have to fit a certain mold, Beyonce is marketable to white america, someone like Mya or Teedra Moses isnt, so they can all cut shitloads of albums and music but they are going to be confined to just a shot on rb radio, and any attempts at a more "pop" approach is often viewed as being desperate.

And creating your own sound, well we know what that gets U, especially if you are signed to the same label as a so called icon and they want that sound too. Whether we like it or not, it is a image game at the end of the day, Beyonce has the look, and Rihanna is her successor, i dont care how hard you push someone like Teedra Moses or Amerie (who are light years more creative) they would NEVER sell to white america.

It's a certain sound mixed with a certain image. In the 60s Aretha found crossover support, you had Gladys, you had Patti, but Diana was the one that dominated with the Supremes. No black female had ever seen the kind of response she did. In a one-on-one singing battle with the three most would agree that Ross would have probably lost but so what? It was more than vocal ability. It was PR, it was the terrific songwriting team, it was the amazing clothes, [It was the Berry Gordy penis stuffed-mouth], you know, all of that mattered and made her the icon she is.

True

Harlepolis said:

musicjunky318 said:

It's a certain sound mixed with a certain image. In the 60s Aretha found crossover support, you had Gladys, you had Patti, but Diana was the one that dominated with the Supremes. No black female had ever seen the kind of response she did. In a one-on-one singing battle with the three most would agree that Ross would have probably lost but so what? It was more than vocal ability. It was PR, it was the terrific songwriting team, it was the amazing clothes, [It was the Berry Gordy penis stuffed-mouth], you know, all of that mattered and made her the icon she is.

True

If you read one of Diana's biographies, Berry couldn't even get it up the first night.

That was one weird relationship. The idiot wouldn't even marry Diana after all she did for that scummy bastard.

BklynBabe said:

Arnotts said:

Is Alicia Keys still big in America? I havent heard anything from her in years. But overseas (or at least in australia) Rihanna is just as big as Beyonce, and has been for a few years, so I think its upgraded to two black females at a time.

I think people don't really think of Rihanna as Black because she comes from an Island and has green eyes.... many of my family is from Barbados and have blue, gray, and green eyes. [Edited 12/26/10 4:54am]

rihanna is BLACK

just because someone has blue, grey, purple pink, yellow eyes.. does not mean their not black...

Timmy84 said:

Harlepolis said:

True

If you read one of Diana's biographies, Berry couldn't even get it up the first night.

Its the teeth, hon. I'm surprised his dick didn't develop a mind of its own and cleared the hell outta there.

BklynBabe said:

Arnotts said:

Is Alicia Keys still big in America? I havent heard anything from her in years. But overseas (or at least in australia) Rihanna is just as big as Beyonce, and has been for a few years, so I think its upgraded to two black females at a time.

I think people don't really think of Rihanna as Black because she comes from an Island and has green eyes.... many of my family is from Barbados and have blue, gray, and green eyes. [Edited 12/26/10 4:54am]

That was the dumbest thing I've read all day. Thank you for the chuckle.

Harlepolis said:

musicjunky318 said:

It's a certain sound mixed with a certain image. In the 60s Aretha found crossover support, you had Gladys, you had Patti, but Diana was the one that dominated with the Supremes. No black female had ever seen the kind of response she did. In a one-on-one singing battle with the three most would agree that Ross would have probably lost but so what? It was more than vocal ability. It was PR, it was the terrific songwriting team, it was the amazing clothes, [It was the Berry Gordy penis stuffed-mouth], you know, all of that mattered and made her the icon she is.

True

LOL. That too.