Any one else have a problem watching this middle class estate agent hark on about the blues??

I don't. LOL...he didn't start out as anything like middle class, as if that's reason to dismiss his talent and opinions on a subject he's been dedicated to 50 years. Even if he did, he's still a great blues guitarist/singer IMHO. EC has more "skin in da game" than almost anybody ever will....so if he's an impersonator, he's surely the best one ever. He's done alot to spread the genre and keep other lesser known Black artists in the money long after their heyday. He's also a great mentor of up and coming blues guitarists. EC has his faults...Lord knows he does , but being a real bluesman ain't one of them. He's one of the last of a dying breed in a (sadly) dying genre.

This same line of thinking is why so few non White, but specifically Black artists (that are not named Jimi, that is) will never be considered "rock" by much of the mainstream public/press even tho they are. It's a very limited way of thinking about music and musicians.

Are you objecting to him for being a White dude from Ripley instead of Tyler, Texas or NOLA? (As for his background, he grew up very hard and quite poor.) If so, do you think Black folks that perform classical or other "non Black genres" are "impersonators" too?

One thing EC has in common w/ BB and probably Buddy too is he didn't have an indoor toilet until he was about 20. LOL...he bought it w/ his new found wealth. If that doesn't qualify him to play/sing/feel blues, what does? LOL

[Edited 1/7/11 1:29am]

he didn't have an indoor toilet until he was about 20

not many people did back in the 40's and 50's

no i think hes incredibly talented but very inauthentic(is that a word??)

thats all

jonylawson said:

Any one else have a problem watching this middle class estate agent hark on about the blues??

Nope, I don't. Eric is a great guitar player, but I do prefer Buddy Guy or Kenny Wayne Shephard.

I just think he's very bland and vanilla. Maybe the most overrated guitarist ever.

But Eddie Van Halen committed to playing all his stuff note by note, so there's gotta be something to him. But I never got it.

[Edited 1/7/11 9:43am]

abigail05 said:

I just think he's very bland and vanilla. Maybe the most overrated guitarist ever.

But Eddie Van Halen committed to playing all his stuff note by note, so there's gotta be something to him. But I never got it.

[Edited 1/7/11 9:43am]

very very bland

you can guarantee that the sort of people who have a "jazz for coffee lovers" cd will have an eric clapton cd nestled next to their dire straits and celine dion

jonylawson said:

he didn't have an indoor toilet until he was about 20

not many people did back in the 40's and 50's

no i think hes incredibly talented but very inauthentic(is that a word??)

thats all

It was a joke man, geez, but that's the best you can do? It's one thing to say you find someone not to your taste, but it's another to say call them inauthentic. That implies that the blues is one thing that nobody can deviate from and remain in the fold. Ironically enough, this is one of my major beefs w/ EC....he thinks just like you do!

abigail05 said:

I just think he's very bland and vanilla. Maybe the most overrated guitarist ever.

But Eddie Van Halen committed to playing all his stuff note by note, so there's gotta be something to him. But I never got it.

[Edited 1/7/11 9:43am]

Dare I suggest that Eddie (and most other guitarists who are/were in utter awe of him...even down to the late Jimi and master himself Muddy Waters) knows something you don't? EC is a very hot and cold player, very moody...when he's "off", he's meh but never truly bad. He's too technically accomplished and experienced to be go below a certain level of competence. When he's "on" you see why he's called Slowhand. The guy can change the tempature in a room from sweatin' hot to ice cold....and take you back again. It must be experienced to be believed. :thud:

If he's "overrated" as you seem to think, why are all these greats so impressed and have remained so for 50 years? Sonny Boy Williamson didn't cut a sucker an even break very often, but even he got backed up by EC at 19. Like EC or dont...half the time I don't know if I do, but try to imagine the genre w/o him. Can ya?

I think EC is fantastic at what he does, not every record he did was great. But Eric has a true love for the blues, and he has composed some of the most memorable rift's and solo's in the history of rock music. Jimi Hendrix dug Jimi, Buddy Guy does, Muddy Waters as mentioned. These guy's aren't going to be saying a guy is good, and even doing cover of his song's if they think he can't play the blues or is not that talented.

E.C Has been doing this for so long, that as brooksie mentioned it would be hard to imagine where the genre would be without him

People say Zeppelin, The Stones & Aerosmith couldn't play the blues either which i disagree on as well

tonight mathew im going to be a middle class ,bland blues wannabe for the musically ignorant!

Maybe Clapton's real legacy should be great blues historian. Plays the right notes and keeps us thinking about that important blues music - but on a personal level, lacks depth and emotion.

I feel sorry for what happened with his son - but that GOD AWFUL acoustic album he did in the early 90's has been a curse on us all. Fucking Tears In Heaven and Layla. I never, ever want to hear those dreary things again.

jonylawson said:

tonight mathew im going to be a middle class ,bland blues wannabe for the musically ignorant!

Sound's like your confident in being that

I'd bet Jony has never heard an actual blues song in his or her life..lol

2freaky4church1 said:

I'd bet Jony has never heard an actual blues song in his or her life..lol

'lol" indeed

abigail05 said:

Maybe Clapton's real legacy should be great blues historian. Plays the right notes and keeps us thinking about that important blues music - but on a personal level, lacks depth and emotion.

I feel sorry for what happened with his son - but that GOD AWFUL acoustic album he did in the early 90's has been a curse on us all. Fucking Tears In Heaven and Layla. I never, ever want to hear those dreary things again.

great point

Well, I think it's important to keep in mind that at a certain point he really fell off and started making a lot of mediocre music. For me just about all of his post Derek and the Dominos albums are very sketchy but he was pretty fantastic in the '60s.

I do find it somewhat odd that he is sometimes revered as a giant of blues music. For at least the last 30 years, probably 35 years, he has seemed much more interesting in releasing middling MOR type music rather than the blues. Sure, there have been exceptions here and there but he seems to have largely abandoned the blues in favour of other, more commercial types of music. There's nothing wrong with that, he is free to record whatever he likes, but it doesn't seem like he is very committed to blues music so I don't see why he is so associated with it.

rialb said:

Well, I think it's important to keep in mind that at a certain point he really fell off and started making a lot of mediocre music. For me just about all of his post Derek and the Dominos albums are very sketchy but he was pretty fantastic in the '60s.

I do find it somewhat odd that he is sometimes revered as a giant of blues music. For at least the last 30 years, probably 35 years, he has seemed much more interesting in releasing middling MOR type music rather than the blues. Sure, there have been exceptions here and there but he seems to have largely abandoned the blues in favour of other, more commercial types of music. There's nothing wrong with that, he is free to record whatever he likes, but it doesn't seem like he is very committed to blues music so I don't see why he is so associated with it.

Ummmm where's all this other more commericial stuff has he done? Unplugged...I'll give ya that, but where's all this commercial non blues music he done? (LOL...EC's even tried his hand at techno, but that didn't go so well. ) EC's biggest hits in the past 30+ years are so are solidly BLUES albums (both studio and live)....from Slowhand, to Journeyman, all the way to his ever present Robert Johnson covers are firmly in the blues genre. The vast majority of his discography is blue or blues rock (or did you think of Cream as pure blues? )

EC has put out some lazy hackish albums over the years, but that doesn't mean they aren't primarily blues albums. It's clear that some folks are not familiar w/ EC's discography and live work and clearly have no real idea of his huge output/collaborations. How can you have such strong opinions on what he did or didn't do if you keep saying "seems"...either you're sure or you're not. You're judging him based on a very limited knowledge of his full body of work. His recording output may not be to your liking, but EC didn't abandon the blues at any point. What do you think he played at concerts?

One of EC's saving graces from complete and utter hackery is that he's willing to experiment w/ different artists, sounds, and genres....keep moving and keep growing. That doesn't seem like a failing on his part to me, but that he wants to keep up w/ they evolutions in music. Why must he ONLY play the Delta-Chicago blues and/or do Cream forever folks?

I love the blues and it's hard watching it die as a mainstream genre, but it WILL die because people approach it like it's a museum piece stuck in the past covered w/ dust. Same thing happened w/ jazz for all intents and purposes.

[Edited 1/8/11 17:50pm]

brooksie said:

rialb said:

Well, I think it's important to keep in mind that at a certain point he really fell off and started making a lot of mediocre music. For me just about all of his post Derek and the Dominos albums are very sketchy but he was pretty fantastic in the '60s.

I do find it somewhat odd that he is sometimes revered as a giant of blues music. For at least the last 30 years, probably 35 years, he has seemed much more interesting in releasing middling MOR type music rather than the blues. Sure, there have been exceptions here and there but he seems to have largely abandoned the blues in favour of other, more commercial types of music. There's nothing wrong with that, he is free to record whatever he likes, but it doesn't seem like he is very committed to blues music so I don't see why he is so associated with it.

Ummmm where's all this other more commericial stuff has he done? Unplugged...I'll give ya that, but where's all this commercial non blues music he done? (LOL...EC's even tried his hand at techno, but that didn't go so well. ) EC's biggest hits in the past 30+ years are so are solidly BLUES albums (both studio and live)....from Slowhand, to Journeyman, all the way to his ever present Robert Johnson covers are firmly in the blues genre. The vast majority of his discography is blue or blues rock (or did you think of Cream as pure blues? )

EC has put out some lazy hackish albums over the years, but that doesn't mean they aren't primarily blues albums. It's clear that some folks are not familiar w/ EC's discography and live work and clearly have no real idea of his huge output/collaborations. How can you have such strong opinions on what he did or didn't do if you keep saying "seems"...either you're sure or you're not. You're judging him based on a very limited knowledge of his full body of work. His recording output may not be to your liking, but EC didn't abandon the blues at any point. What do you think he played at concerts?

One of EC's saving graces from complete and utter hackery is that he's willing to experiment w/ different artists, sounds, and genres....keep moving and keep growing. That doesn't seem like a failing on his part to me, but that he wants to keep up w/ they evolutions in music. Why must he ONLY play the Delta-Chicago blues and/or do Cream forever folks?

I love the blues and it's hard watching it die as a mainstream genre, but it WILL die because people approach it like it's a museum piece stuck in the past covered w/ dust. Same thing happened w/ jazz for all intents and purposes.

[Edited 1/8/11 17:50pm]

I will totally admit to the fact that I am not familiar with his recent albums (by recent I mean the last 30 years!) but are albums like Behind The Sun, August, Pilgrim, Reptile and Back Home blues albums or are they MOR pop/rock albums?

I wasn't clear but I was primarily referring to his studio albums, not his live shows. While it is true that he has recorded the odd blues album I maintain that most of his work since the '70s has been slick pop/rock with minor blues flourishes rather than straight blues. Those blues albums aside I would argue that there is little on his albums that could be qualified as pure blues music.

I never said he had to record any one type of music but as one of the standard bearers of the blues he does not seem (there's that word again! ) particularly committed to them. Most of the music he has made in the last 30 years seems much more indebted to the dreaded adult contemporary genre than the blues.

abigail05 said:

Maybe Clapton's real legacy should be great blues historian. Plays the right notes and keeps us thinking about that important blues music - but on a personal level, lacks depth and emotion.

I feel sorry for what happened with his son - but that GOD AWFUL acoustic album he did in the early 90's has been a curse on us all. Fucking Tears In Heaven and Layla. I never, ever want to hear those dreary things again.

I don't think anyone is placing him on a pedestal for his 90s albums.

Check out The Cream Of Clapton. He's sick on the guitar.

I agree. Though I enjoy some of his work.

Clapton is the guy who introduced the blues to the mainstream white audience. Period. For that, he deserves praise and respect. His mid-60s work with John Mayall, the blues covers he does on every tour, the 1979 live album full of blues songs, the 1993 blues covers album (From the Cradle), the Robert Johnson tribute album, etc. On top of that, his voice is perfectly bluesy... Of course, he's also a crossover genius, toying with rock, country, pop and folk (Layla, Sunshine of Your Love, Cocaine, Promises, Change the World, Badge, Wonderful Tonight, Pretending, Running on Faith, etc).

If you can't (or you don't want to) admit this/face this,... then it's your problem, not mine Only a foll would say that Clapton is more bluesy/relevant than Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker or Robert Johnson, but he's the guy who carried the 30s-50s blues for the modern-mainstream times. Respect

JoeTyler said:

Clapton is the guy who introduced the blues to the mainstream white audience. Period. For that, he deserves praise and respect. His mid-60s work with John Mayall, the blues covers he does on every tour, the 1979 live album full of blues songs, the 1993 blues covers album (From the Cradle), the Robert Johnson tribute album, etc. On top of that, his voice is perfectly bluesy... Of course, he's also a crossover genius, toying with rock, country, pop and folk (Layla, Sunshine of Your Love, Cocaine, Promises, Change the World, Badge, Wonderful Tonight, Pretending, Running on Faith, etc).

If you can't (or you don't want to) admit this/face this,... then it's your problem, not mine Only a foll would say that Clapton is more bluesy/relevant than Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker or Robert Johnson, but he's the guy who carried the 30s-50s blues for the modern-mainstream times. Respect

Yeah, I can agree totally with you here. I just have a very hard time reconciling the Clapton of the '60s/very early '70s with the more poppish/adult contemporary Clapton. Obviously this sort of thing happens to a lot of popular artists but for me he just dropped off so quickly. When Jimi Hendrix and Duane Allman died Eric Clapton also kind of "died." I really wish that he had waited until the '80s to start releasing slick pop/rock albums and continued making albums similar to Layla and Other Assorted Love Songs. I guess in a way it is admirable that he didn't rely on his playing as much as he could have and concentrated on being a singer/songwriter but I don't feel like that is his strength.

rialb said:

JoeTyler said:

Clapton is the guy who introduced the blues to the mainstream white audience. Period. For that, he deserves praise and respect. His mid-60s work with John Mayall, the blues covers he does on every tour, the 1979 live album full of blues songs, the 1993 blues covers album (From the Cradle), the Robert Johnson tribute album, etc. On top of that, his voice is perfectly bluesy... Of course, he's also a crossover genius, toying with rock, country, pop and folk (Layla, Sunshine of Your Love, Cocaine, Promises, Change the World, Badge, Wonderful Tonight, Pretending, Running on Faith, etc).

If you can't (or you don't want to) admit this/face this,... then it's your problem, not mine Only a foll would say that Clapton is more bluesy/relevant than Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker or Robert Johnson, but he's the guy who carried the 30s-50s blues for the modern-mainstream times. Respect

Yeah, I can agree totally with you here. I just have a very hard time reconciling the Clapton of the '60s/very early '70s with the more poppish/adult contemporary Clapton. Obviously this sort of thing happens to a lot of popular artists but for me he just dropped off so quickly. When Jimi Hendrix and Duane Allman died Eric Clapton also kind of "died." I really wish that he had waited until the '80s to start releasing slick pop/rock albums and continued making albums similar to Layla and Other Assorted Love Songs. I guess in a way it is admirable that he didn't rely on his playing as much as he could have and concentrated on being a singer/songwriter but I don't feel like that is his strength.

Yep, that's true, for all intents and purposes, Clapton the "God of Guitar" died somewhere in 1973...his blockbuster albums of the 74-79 era, 461 Ocean Blvd and SlowHand were strong, pleasant and full of good singles, but not masterpieces. After that he became just a "singles artist" (he did release A LOT of good singles during the 80-02 era, but not even one strong album of new material, LOL, Journeyman'89 was just 6 great singles and 6 fillers )

I think Clapton (2010) is a decent return to form (sort of), but the DREADFUL front cover and the lack of memorable singles are big turnoffs for me...

it's telling that his best 00s albums were a covers album (Me and Mr.Johnson 2004) and a collaboration with JJ Cale in 2006 (Road to Escondido)...His best studio album of the 90s was also a covers album (From the Cradle)

[Edited 1/9/11 8:57am]

Three words: Crossroads Guitar Festival. Despite what you may think about Clapton as a bluesman, you can't doubt his dedication to music and playing the guitar.

On the "FOR REAL" tip, any man losing his child has just as much right to sing the blues as another would about losing his woman. If you don't think "Tears in Heaven" is blues then you haven't lived.

CROSSROADS makes me think about how great it would have been to see Clapton sharing a stage with Curtis Mayfield.