Ok, so i know she's mentioned here a lot but. I really don't care for GaGa i like her song Speechless and she has talent, but she's way overrated and just everywhere. And if i say i don't like her, or Britney Spears or any of those people they FREAK OUT on me. And most of the time they have to talk about how much they have sold, and how amazing they are , yeah i have been less and less concerned on sales.

I mean it really doesn't matter how much you sell, it's talent baby that get's you in the end. Bob Marley never had a number 1 hit, Neither did Bob Dylan or Grace Jones. But yet there still loved, respected and honored in numerous way's Marley & bob for there poetic & political music. Grace for her fashion and music as well.

But really i'm just saying people are so obsessed with sales, i have noticed more and more that's what is brought first into convo...

Stevie Wonder has more top 10 hits then any male artist, but i never even mention that in convo, cause i mention a dozen musical reasons the man is a genius. If your try to say MJ wasn't the greatest musician ever then people will immediately have to tell you about how he's the best selling artist's of all time.

Sales are great for the artist, even if they never see all the money , but i think the talent should be the be all end all speaker of musicians not how much they banked

There's a difference between popularity and respect. Some of the most admired figures in history haven't matched the sales acclaim of others but at the end of the day respect *I believe* means much more. Mariah Carey may have outsold Aretha Franklin but she will never be the legend, icon, and national treasure she is. Bob Dylan, same thing. Instant respect. I don't think none of his studio albums did anything past triple platinum but so what? His role during the 60s, 70s, civl rights efforts, etc. outway everything else. Bob Marley, Stevie Wonder...More respected than popular. Madonna and Michael Jackson are more popular than respected. Britney Spears...Popular, not respected. Then there are high levels of both like the Beatles. Popular AND respected pretty much down the middle.

It matters less and less these days with the internet and the ability for artists to release music themselves (physically or digitally). In general it only matters to me in that it affects some artists ability to survive and/or release new music. Especially those that have signed shitty contracts. It has absolutely nothing to do with how I judge the quality of an artists music or songwriting.

It doesn't mean anything to me. I listen to many artists that flew under the radar. I mean, sure it's nice to see your favorite artist succeed but at the end of the day it's all about the quality of the art. It seems like female artist fans or "stans" are obsessed with sales than anything else.

[Edited 12/28/10 22:43pm]

Stans?

I would say that a majority of the music I listen to, two-thirds at least, is jazz and electronic stuff that never sees more than a few thousand copies pressed during the entire lifespan of the release. Sometimes much less than that. When you're dealing with numbers like that the totals have no meaning. All that matters is that the music reached some people, someplace in the world, who most likely love and cherish it. I know I do. It doesn't matter to me in any way that most people would have no idea who I was talking about if I tried to discuss them. I love their music and I love the idea that they're out there, somewhere, working hard to create it even though they know they're probably never going to "get famous". The other side of that is that I see nothing wrong with people who love what is popular, so long as it's not complete and utter crap. *cough*ladygaga*cough*kesha*cough There are plenty of people selling large numbers who I think are great, and it's sometimes nice to be able to discuss their music with other people who feel the same way.

If I were selling something then sales would be important to me. But I'm not. So they aren't. However, our materialistic culture teaches us to worship money, consumerism and the outward appearance of wealth. And with so little art remaining in the product being sold today it's only natural that the conversation turns to sales. What else is there to discuss? Most of the real artists who have something to actually say/express have been run out of "the business" or had the good sense to leave.

Cerebus said:

Stans?

I would say that a majority of the music I listen to, two-thirds at least, is jazz and electronic stuff that never sees more than a few thousand copies pressed during the entire lifespan of the release. Sometimes much less than that. When you're dealing with numbers like that the totals have no meaning. All that matters is that the music reached some people, someplace in the world, who most likely love and cherish it. I know I do. It doesn't matter to me in any way that most people would have no idea who I was talking about if I tried to discuss them. I love their music and I love the idea that they're out there, somewhere, working hard to create it even though they know they're probably never going to "get famous". The other side of that is that I see nothing wrong with people who love what is popular, so long as it's not complete and utter crap. *cough*ladygaga*cough*kesha*cough There are plenty of people selling large numbers who I think are great, and it's sometimes nice to be able to discuss their music with other people who feel the same way.

Lol, i listen to a lot of blues and jazz that probably never even went gold And people who listen to nothing but pop think it's ''boring''

But this is how i feel, i feel you should be able to discuss there music and don;'t have to babble about omg they had 4 number 1's or something

musicjunky318 said:

There's a difference between popularity and respect. Some of the most admired figures in history haven't matched the sales acclaim of others but at the end of the day respect *I believe* means much more. Mariah Carey may have outsold Aretha Franklin but she will never be the legend, icon, and national treasure she is. Bob Dylan, same thing. Instant respect. I don't think none of his studio albums did anything past triple platinum but so what? His role during the 60s, 70s, civl rights efforts, etc. outway everything else. Bob Marley, Stevie Wonder...More respected than popular. Madonna and Michael Jackson are more popular than respected. Britney Spears...Popular, not respected. Then there are high levels of both like the Beatles. Popular AND respected pretty much down the middle.

A lot of truth to that statement

Thank you for the responses everyone

I mean i am just saying, tons of the greatest artists of all time where not big sellers. Jonnie mitchell, Patti Smith, Bob Dylan, Bob Marley, Robert Johnson, Radiohead, Public Enemy etc.

It just as said eerks me, when i can explain why a musician is good and really mean it. While someone else will go ow Mariah sold more then Madonna & Whitney she's Queen. Nickleback had more hits then Guns N Roses there better.

But yeah it's silly, this mainly came from someone who was trying to say Lady GaGa was up there with the greatest cause she has sold so much, then i made that mark about Bob Marley & Dylan never had number 1 singles. but caused a musical revolution and where deeply respected and had fans that would die for them. And they just kept saying well but GaGa sold more

Gaga's hard core fans are mental. Trying to explain to them why she may be a sign of the coming apocalypse is a completely pointless endeavor. Probably better to just let them meet their end dumb and happy.

Cerebus said:

Gaga's hard core fans are mental. Trying to explain to them why she may be a sign of the coming apocalypse is a completely pointless endeavor. Probably better to just let them meet their end dumb and happy.

ahahah... i won;t lie dude

I bought her album curious to see what the buzz is. I like her song Speechless, but damn girl is talented... SHE IS EVERYWHERE. And everyone nowadays is compared to her, she's way overexposed... LORD LOL

And yes her stans effing insane to the 10th degree

I don't think she's talented at all. Her image is contrived and overdone. Her sexuality (near nudity) has no meaning or purpose. And her songs are completely disposable. Blech.

Cerebus said:

Stans?

I would say that a majority of the music I listen to, two-thirds at least, is jazz and electronic stuff that never sees more than a few thousand copies pressed during the entire lifespan of the release. Sometimes much less than that. When you're dealing with numbers like that the totals have no meaning. All that matters is that the music reached some people, someplace in the world, who most likely love and cherish it. I know I do. It doesn't matter to me in any way that most people would have no idea who I was talking about if I tried to discuss them. I love their music and I love the idea that they're out there, somewhere, working hard to create it even though they know they're probably never going to "get famous". The other side of that is that I see nothing wrong with people who love what is popular, so long as it's not complete and utter crap. *cough*ladygaga*cough*kesha*cough There are plenty of people selling large numbers who I think are great, and it's sometimes nice to be able to discuss their music with other people who feel the same way.

That you probably buy at Rasputin and Amoeba

bboy87 said:

Cerebus said:

Stans?

I would say that a majority of the music I listen to, two-thirds at least, is jazz and electronic stuff that never sees more than a few thousand copies pressed during the entire lifespan of the release. Sometimes much less than that. When you're dealing with numbers like that the totals have no meaning. All that matters is that the music reached some people, someplace in the world, who most likely love and cherish it. I know I do. It doesn't matter to me in any way that most people would have no idea who I was talking about if I tried to discuss them. I love their music and I love the idea that they're out there, somewhere, working hard to create it even though they know they're probably never going to "get famous". The other side of that is that I see nothing wrong with people who love what is popular, so long as it's not complete and utter crap. *cough*ladygaga*cough*kesha*cough There are plenty of people selling large numbers who I think are great, and it's sometimes nice to be able to discuss their music with other people who feel the same way.

That you probably buy at Rasputin and Amoeba

Uuuuhyep! Almost exclusively. Gotta love the Bay Area.

I feel sales are largely generated by promotion, and ANYTHING can be promoted. So sales mean virtually nothing to me. Something can be a flop sales-wise, but if I like it, I like it. Just like something can go triple platinum on the day of it's release, but if I don't like it, it's a flop, lol.

Cerebus said:

bboy87 said:

That you probably buy at Rasputin and Amoeba

Uuuuhyep! Almost exclusively. Gotta love the Bay Area.

I miss it so much

not much to be honest. Prince is my favourite artist and always will be regardless of his sales

I don't think sales made MJ great. Yes i do think Mj is one of the greats in music history but even if he had sold 50 million copies instead of 500, it wouldnt change my opinion of him.

On the other hand, someone like britney will never be remembered in 20 years time. Thats becuase despite her sales, she isnt a respected talent, just popular.

If I invested in them like I invest in stocks, they would be important to me. Other than that, its a case of take it or leave it.

That being said, many artists put so much emphasis on sales in order to survive in this business, and I can't fault them for feeling this way. But personally speaking, if I can't identify with a music project on an emotional level, then I move on to the next one.

hhhhdmt said:

On the other hand, someone like britney will never be remembered in 20 years time.

I'm not what you could call a "fan" of Britney Spears, but I believe she'll be remembered, if not active even, in 20 years time.

Here's what Mick Jagger had to say about it in an interview with Jann Wenner in Rolling Stone in 1995. I remember reading it at the time and thought it was interesting.

Taking care of business

Sometimes I'm able to pay the groceries with the money I get from my sales.

Sales mean a lot to me. In this day and age, when an artist I like releases a new album, I DON'T want it to have huge sales. I want it only to sell either to their loyal fanbase that has been with them all these years, or to their ex-fans who used to be with the artist but now are getting back into the artist because it's actually a good new release.

The last thing I want to see is an artist I like sell well with the general public because it turns them into sellouts who make bullshit music that satisfy today's rhythmless, no taste listeners. Ronald Isley and Charlie Wilson are proof of that.

Sales don't matter as much to me as it probably did eight years ago. You grow up and discover sales ain't shit if the material is good, fuck it.

In terms of my own tastes and appreciation of art, sales mean nothing. I've heard inspired work that left me darned near in tears come from anonymous folk playing in churches or busking in subway stations.

But I don't altogether discount the implication or power of sales to the artist. I have little affection for folk in the biz just for the Ferrari, McMansion and their name in lights. A lucrative project, though, can not only inspire a more earnest artist toward subsequent output by suggesting a favorable level of interest in his/her work, but, more fundamentally, it can keep their heat on and food in their belly. As with anyone I love, I want artists I enjoy to know they're appreciated and to be at least comfortable.

[Edited 12/29/10 9:42am]

hhhhdmt said:

not much to be honest. Prince is my favourite artist and always will be regardless of his sales

I don't think sales made MJ great. Yes i do think Mj is one of the greats in music history but even if he had sold 50 million copies instead of 500, it wouldnt change my opinion of him.

On the other hand, someone like britney will never be remembered in 20 years time. Thats becuase despite her sales, she isnt a respected talent, just popular.

I agree that it was not sales that made MJ great. However, his immense sales only added to his greatness/appeal/legacy. Sales never mattered to me when it came to Michael. I would have respected and loved him, no matter what.

It doesn't matter to me. I used to play my grandfather's Slim Harpo singles and grandmother's gospel songs on Nashboro records when I was little and I had no concept of sales and hit records. I didn't find out about "hits" until the Casey Kasem America's Top Ten TV show in the early 1980's. But I think sales are a factor in some way. If the Beatles didn't sell a lot of records with "She Loves You", they wouldn't have had the money or clout to do stuff like Sgt. Pepper later or retire from touring. If Thriller hadn't sold the big numbers, Mike wouldn't have had the money to do things like the Smooth Criminal video. If Prince wasn't really successful in the mid 80's, he wouldn't have had the money to sue somebody for putting up a video of a baby with his music playing in the background, threaten websites, or film music videos that no one sees. But there's more of an emphasis on sales by record companies today, because they're run by people who got a college degree in business. Many of the labels in the past were started by music fans or former musicians like John Hammond, Sydney Nathan, or Berry Gordy. Many of the classic artists wouldn't make it if they started out today. Acts like Aretha Franklin, Bruce Springsteen, Prince, Stevie Wonder, & U2 weren't successful at 1st. But the people who signed them believed in them and let them develop an audience. The Beatles got turned down several times. They were told that guitar bands were on the way out. The main reason they got signed to Parlophone was because George Martin (who was mostly a producer of comedy records at the time) heard their demo and heard something in them. Also Brian Epstein wouldn't give up on them.

[Edited 12/29/10 10:53am]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZZ31YkWcTs

An interesting vid showing a comparison of GaGa to other peoples styles.

This guys is brave cause her ''little monsters'' will be all over that haha

MickyDolenz said:

It doesn't matter to me. I used to play my grandfather's Slim Harpo singles and grandmother's gospel songs on Nashboro records when I was little and I had no concept of sales and hit records. I didn't find out about "hits" until the Casey Kasem America's Top Ten TV show in the early 1980's. But I think sales are a factor in some way. If the Beatles didn't sell a lot of records with "She Loves You", they wouldn't have had the money or clout to do stuff like Sgt. Pepper later or retire from touring. If Thriller hadn't sold the big numbers, Mike wouldn't have had the money to do things like the Smooth Criminal video. If Prince wasn't really successful in the mid 80's, he wouldn't have had the money to sue somebody for putting up a video of a baby with his music playing in the background, threaten websites, or film music videos that no one sees. But there's more of an emphasis on sales by record companies today, because they're run by people who got a college degree in business. Many of the labels in the past were started by music fans or former musicians like John Hammond, Sydney Nathan, or Berry Gordy. Many of the classic artists wouldn't make it if they started out today. Acts like Aretha Franklin, Bruce Springsteen, Prince, Stevie Wonder, & U2 weren't successful at 1st. But the people who signed them believed in them and let them develop an audience. The Beatles got turned down several times. They were told that guitar bands were on the way out. The main reason they got signed to Parlophone was because George Martin (who was mostly a producer of comedy records at the time) heard their demo and heard something in them. Also Brian Epstein wouldn't give up on them.

[Edited 12/29/10 10:53am]

Yes i like it more when an artist has to work more, suffer a little for there art, Before they get hit records

I care about sales only to the degree that it's good for the artist. Other than that, I don't care much about sales. I only bring up sales if I happen to see it being talked about and I feel like I have something to say. Like now!

Popularity isn't accurately represented by sales in todays world.