bboy87 said:

BabyBeMine said:

To the mainstream and non fans Michael's best dance tracks and slow jams were on those two albums.

I don't care if your a fan of rock, pop, country, everyone will get up and get their groove on when "Dont Stop To You Get Enough" comes on. Top 5 all time dance track

Dangerous and even History have good tracks, but no classics

No it's not mandatory. It just gives the album better balance when you have fast songs that make you want to dance, and that luv jam for when your lady comes over.

Relationship type songs will always be popular. You will always have that 18 year old teenager who's girl left him, or her boyfriend left her, or your in luv...etc

Aren't Remember The Time, Black Or White, and You Are Not Alone classics?

I am personally not a great fan of these songs. And like Babybemine I noticed the older he got the more shouting and grunting in his songs, it was almost like he couldn't really sing properly anymore. Even on the ballads it was like he was struggling, however, having read the autopsy report about his lungs not being in the best of condition maybe it had something to do with it. It might also explain the increase in mining at his concerts.

I think the older fans are better judge of his career, simply because we have seen how he progressed or deteriorate better.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

was it mj that did the oooh and ow at the bridge? I was always crazy about this song

whatsgoingon said:

bboy87 said:

Aren't Remember The Time, Black Or White, and You Are Not Alone classics?

I am personally not a great fan of these songs. And like Babybemine I noticed the older he got the more shouting and grunting in his songs, it was almost like he couldn't really sing properly anymore. Even on the ballads it was like he was struggling, however, having read the autopsy report about his lungs not being in the best of condition maybe it had something to do with it. It might also explain the increase in mining at his concerts.

I think the older fans are better judge of his career, simply because we have seen how he progressed or deteriorate better.

I agree with some of what you guys are saying about the smoother vocals, but really Stranger in moscow, smile, earth song to name a few? You think he was struggling on those??

Unholyalliance said:

BabyBeMine said:

How can you be a classic album without luv jams? That's impossible.

Yeah ITA. That's exactly why no one considers Marvin Gaye's What's Going On to be a classic album by any means. He should have known better than to keep those luv jams off of that album. Especially since he's a black r&b artist. It's mandatory that they have at least, ONE luv jam in order to have a decent album.

Opinions.

BabyBeMine said:

"Off The Wall" filler dance tracks are better than Dangerous best dance tracks

NO.

Marvin Gaye "Whats Going ON" album was delivered in a completely different way to MJ History . Although both albums were mainly about alternative themes from the usual love songs and dance jams, Marvin Gaye still continue to use his wonderful, soulful voice to sing about war, children, religion, taxes and poverty etc. He still continued to sound soulful and in some cases funky. MJ however seem to do away with his naturally soulful voice and he started to sound more shouty. There is very little soul or funk on his latter albums, not in his voice or the way the songs are delivered.

Plus in his earlier days MJ did sing songs about themes besides boy meets girl. On Destiny his some of the songs are quite autobiographic, it just that he delivers them in a completely different way to say History. But as I said before the way he started to sing may have had something to do with the deterioriation of his lungs. We really don't know how long he had those lung problems.

[Edited 1/4/11 1:49am]

[Edited 1/4/11 1:50am]

dag said:

dag said:

I´ve just had a heartattack!

They need to release an uncensored version of this thing.

[Edited 1/1/11 14:39pm]

Can´t believe noone has commented on this, ladies. I almost didn´t survive those few minutes and nobody else seems to care. Why did I bother posting this?

Girl please,I watched both the versions you posted!

I aint stupid!

CPest1 said:

whatsgoingon said:

I am personally not a great fan of these songs. And like Babybemine I noticed the older he got the more shouting and grunting in his songs, it was almost like he couldn't really sing properly anymore. Even on the ballads it was like he was struggling, however, having read the autopsy report about his lungs not being in the best of condition maybe it had something to do with it. It might also explain the increase in mining at his concerts.

I think the older fans are better judge of his career, simply because we have seen how he progressed or deteriorate better.

I agree with some of what you guys are saying about the smoother vocals, but really Stranger in moscow, smile, earth song to name a few? You think he was struggling on those??

Or the 'vocal training with Seth Riggs' audio from '94. Hit it up on youtube. The dude was damn near operatic! Struggling? please!

Jesus H. Christ on a hockey stick. I feel like these MJ threads keep getting stuck in 2007. [img:$uid]http://brooklynian.com/smiles/facepalm.gif[/img:$uid]

The preliminary hearing is supposed to start at 9am, (12pm Eastern time). So in about 40 minutes from now. TMZ has a live stream up

http://www.tmz.com/catego...er-prelim/

Marrk said:

CPest1 said:

I agree with some of what you guys are saying about the smoother vocals, but really Stranger in moscow, smile, earth song to name a few? You think he was struggling on those??

Or the 'vocal training with Seth Riggs' audio from '94. Hit it up on youtube. The dude was damn near operatic! Struggling? please!

Some people don't know...

whatsgoingon said:

Marvin Gaye "Whats Going ON" album was delivered in a completely different way to MJ History.

Yes, because they are two completely different artists & individuals. My example was meant to be an obvious one, but there are other classic albums that don't utilize any 'luv or slow jams' and most of them happen to be from non-black r&b artists. I just don't understand why MJ needed them. No one looks at The Clash's London Calling and goes "Oh man you know what would have made this album perfect? A 'luv jam.'" If an artist does not feel the need for it then that is all right. I don't see why it's some sort of 'prerequisite' for a 'classic' album. If he felt that an album didn't need one then it didn't. He sure made up for it in Invincible though and I don't see any of you guys calling that album a 'classic' or even recognizing the fact that MJ went back to the 'oh so soulful singing' that some of you claim to have been yearning for so many years.

I just find this convo interesting since Lady in My Life and Baby Be Mine are often cited by quite a few to be the weakest/least liked material on all of Thriller, couple that with the Girl Is Mine. In the end, it's all subjective opinion.

whatsgoingon said:

Although both albums were mainly about alternative themes from the usual love songs and dance jams, Marvin Gaye still continue to use his wonderful, soulful voice to sing about war, children, religion, taxes and poverty etc. He still continued to sound soulful and in some cases funky. MJ however seem to do away with his naturally soulful voice and he started to sound more shouty. There is very little soul or funk on his latter albums, not in his voice or the way the songs are delivered.

I think your nostalgia googles are on a little bit too tight. MJ's songs, even his soul and funk ones have always been on the lite side of things in his post-Motown days maybe besides some of the songs that he did not write or act as sole composer, at least to my knowledge. Off The Wall is still, by all means, a super entry level disco/soul/funk album. Hell, the Jackson 5's most successful singles are still soul/funk/r&b lite. As for the voice, I don't know... I never preferred any style he sang in particu hate it so I guess I never had a problem with it. Then again, thinking back to time period and how times have changed since the 60s to the early to mid 80s...maybe that has something to do with it?

whatsgoingon said:

Plus in his earlier days MJ did sing songs about themes besides boy meets girl. On Destiny his some of the songs are quite autobiographic, it just that he delivers them in a completely different way to say History.

Yeah, but HIStory and Destiny are similar in that effect so how did the subject matter, all of sudden, became weaker?!!? I still don't understand that.

whatsgoingon said:

But as I said before the way he started to sing may have had something to do with the deterioriation of his lungs. We really don't know how long he had those lung problems.

Don't make excuses for the man. As an artist, he made his decision to express himself the way that he thought was best. Whatever he thought was best worked for him, made him comfortable, and/or gave him the results that he wanted otherwise he probably would have pursued a much different path...or not.

[Edited 1/4/11 11:22am]

Unholyalliance said:

whatsgoingon said:

Marvin Gaye "Whats Going ON" album was delivered in a completely different way to MJ History.

Yes, because they are two completely different artists & individuals. My example was meant to be an obvious one, but there are other classic albums that don't utilize any 'luv or slow jams' and most of them happen to be from non-black r&b artists. I just don't understand why MJ needed them. No one looks at The Clash's London Calling and goes "Oh man you know what would have made this album perfect? A 'luv jam.'" If an artist does not feel the need for it then that is all right. I don't see why it's some sort of 'prerequisite' for a 'classic' album. If he felt that an album didn't need one then it didn't. He sure made up for it in Invincible though and I don't see any of you guys calling that album a 'classic' or even recognizing the fact that MJ went back to the 'oh so soulful singing' that some of you claim to have been yearning for so many years.

I just find this convo interesting since Lady in My Life and Baby Be Mine are often cited by quite a few to be the weakest/least liked material on all of Thriller, couple that with the Girl Is Mine. In the end, it's all subjective opinion.

Yeah, but HIStory and Destiny are similar in that effect so how did the subject matter, all of sudden, became weaker?!!? I still don't understand that.

whatsgoingon said:

But as I said before the way he started to sing may have had something to do with the deterioriation of his lungs. We really don't know how long he had those lung problems.

Don't make excuses for the man. As an artist, he made his decision to express himself the way that he thought was best. Whatever he thought was best worked for him, made him comfortable, and/or gave him the results that he wanted otherwise he probably would have pursued a much different path...or not.

[Edited 1/4/11 11:22am]

So I guess he choose to mine alot more at his concerts, too...if that were the case not a very good decision.

Tastes are all subjective. I don't know why but it appears as if some people wanna shove it down people's throats. Unholy's right, it's all subjective. It's funny people thought Michael was more mature in his bubblegum years than in his adult years. Very interesting.

One thing about Mike that I like is that he always updated his sound. But of course when an artist changes his style not all of his fans like it and they start bitching "OMG THIS IS PURE SHIT" "ITS TERRIBLE" while I just sit and laugh. The mainstream media likes the 80's songs better because those are the songs they know, those are the songs with the monster videos and huge promotion. Dangerous, HIStory and Invincible all have classics.

[Edited 1/4/11 13:04pm]

ManlyMoose said:

One thing about Mike that I like is that he always updated his sound. But of course when an artist changes his style not all of his fans like it and they start bitching "OMG THIS IS PURE SHIT" "ITS TERRIBLE" while I just sit and laugh. The mainstream media likes the 80's songs better because those are the songs they know, those are the songs with the monster videos and huge promotion. Dangerous, HIStory and Invincible all have classics.

[Edited 1/4/11 13:04pm]

http://latimesblogs.latim...eath-.html

Choreographer Kenny Ortega: Michael Jackson too weak to perform days before death

The first witnesses to testify in Tuesday’s preliminary hearing for Michael Jackson's physician described a run-in with Dr. Conrad Murray six days before the pop star's death on June 25, 2009.

Renowned choreographer Kenny Ortega was the first to take the stand and said the singer showed up at a rehearsal at Staples Center seeming “lost” and too weak to perform.

“It was scary. I didn’t know what was wrong, but I knew there was something going on,” Ortega recalled.

The next day, he said, he was summoned to a meeting at Jackson’s mansion with the singer, his manager, the concert promoter and Murray.

He said the doctor insisted Jackson was emotionally and physically strong enough to perform and scolded Ortega for sending Jackson home -- something he said he hadn’t done.

“Dr. Murray told me that this was not my responsibility and asked me to not act like a doctor or psychologist ... and leave Michael’s health to him,” he said.

mimi07 said:

http://latimesblogs.latim...eath-.html

Choreographer Kenny Ortega: Michael Jackson too weak to perform days before death

The first witnesses to testify in Tuesday’s preliminary hearing for Michael Jackson's physician described a run-in with Dr. Conrad Murray six days before the pop star's death on June 25, 2009.

Renowned choreographer Kenny Ortega was the first to take the stand and said the singer showed up at a rehearsal at Staples Center seeming “lost” and too weak to perform.

“It was scary. I didn’t know what was wrong, but I knew there was something going on,” Ortega recalled.

The next day, he said, he was summoned to a meeting at Jackson’s mansion with the singer, his manager, the concert promoter and Murray.

He said the doctor insisted Jackson was emotionally and physically strong enough to perform and scolded Ortega for sending Jackson home -- something he said he hadn’t done.

“Dr. Murray told me that this was not my responsibility and asked me to not act like a doctor or psychologist ... and leave Michael’s health to him,” he said.

Ortega said that earlier in June, there was a week during which Jackson was “sort of missing” from rehearsals without explanation, a situation he said “created anxiety for me.”

But in two rehearsals preceding Jackson’s death, the singer appeared to have turned a corner.

“It was like the Michael we all knew and loved,” he said.

The judge also heard from Jackson’s personal assistant, the first person Murray called after discovering Jackson had stopped breathing.

Michael Amir Williams said Murray left a “frantic” message saying Jackson “had a bad reaction” and urging him to come to the house. At the hospital, Murray went with Williams and Jackson’s manager to inform the singer’s children their father was dead.

His voice faltered as he recalled how the children, still thinking their father was alive, began listing his allergies for the doctors.

“It was horrible,” he said.

Shortly thereafter, Murray took him aside with a strange request, Williams said in his testimony.

“He said, ‘Brother Michael, Mr. Jackson has some cream in the house that I knew he wouldn’t want the world to know about,’” Williams said. “It was an odd question, to ask to go to the house to get the cream.”

The doctor asked for a ride back to the mansion, but Williams said he and other security guards demurred.

Subsequently, Murray said he was going to get something to eat and left the hospital. In his cross-examination, Murray’s attorney, Ed Chernoff, questioned Williams about his connection to the

Nation of Islam and about other phone calls he made in the minutes after Murray’s call.

He also asked the personal assistant how frequently he went upstairs to Jackson’s bedroom, and whether his fingerprints may be found on vials, intravenous bags or syringes.

“I don’t know how that’s possible, I never touched any of that,” Williams said.

-- Harriet Ryan and Victoria Kim in L.A. County Superior Court

Why do i get the feeling this is going to just end up being Michael Jackson on trial all over again?

I hope Dr Murray goes to trial and is found guilty, the sentence he gets is irrelevant, just hearing 'guilty' would do me. I'm not following the trial for the duration though. No way.

Timmy84 said:

ManlyMoose said:

One thing about Mike that I like is that he always updated his sound. But of course when an artist changes his style not all of his fans like it and they start bitching "OMG THIS IS PURE SHIT" "ITS TERRIBLE" while I just sit and laugh. The mainstream media likes the 80's songs better because those are the songs they know, those are the songs with the monster videos and huge promotion. Dangerous, HIStory and Invincible all have classics.

[Edited 1/4/11 13:04pm]

Yep! I love Michael's sound as it matures. He keeps it fresh. And me personally...I think he did some of his best work in the 90's and the early 2000's.

But hey,

Timmy84 said:

Tastes are all subjective. I don't know why but it appears as if some people wanna shove it down people's throats. Unholy's right, it's all subjective. It's funny people thought Michael was more mature in his bubblegum years than in his adult years. Very interesting.

It depends on the album.

Now Kenny Ortega says he was too weak he wasn't saying that before smh

babybugz said:

Now Kenny Ortega says he was too weak he wasn't saying that before smh

Exactly.

mimi07 said:

http://latimesblogs.latim...eath-.html

Choreographer Kenny Ortega: Michael Jackson too weak to perform days before death

The first witnesses to testify in Tuesday’s preliminary hearing for Michael Jackson's physician described a run-in with Dr. Conrad Murray six days before the pop star's death on June 25, 2009.

Renowned choreographer Kenny Ortega was the first to take the stand and said the singer showed up at a rehearsal at Staples Center seeming “lost” and too weak to perform.

“It was scary. I didn’t know what was wrong, but I knew there was something going on,” Ortega recalled.

The next day, he said, he was summoned to a meeting at Jackson’s mansion with the singer, his manager, the concert promoter and Murray.

He said the doctor insisted Jackson was emotionally and physically strong enough to perform and scolded Ortega for sending Jackson home -- something he said he hadn’t done.

“Dr. Murray told me that this was not my responsibility and asked me to not act like a doctor or psychologist ... and leave Michael’s health to him,” he said.

Ortega said that earlier in June, there was a week during which Jackson was “sort of missing” from rehearsals without explanation, a situation he said “created anxiety for me.”

But in two rehearsals preceding Jackson’s death, the singer appeared to have turned a corner.

“It was like the Michael we all knew and loved,” he said.

The judge also heard from Jackson’s personal assistant, the first person Murray called after discovering Jackson had stopped breathing.

Michael Amir Williams said Murray left a “frantic” message saying Jackson “had a bad reaction” and urging him to come to the house. At the hospital, Murray went with Williams and Jackson’s manager to inform the singer’s children their father was dead.

His voice faltered as he recalled how the children, still thinking their father was alive, began listing his allergies for the doctors.

“It was horrible,” he said.

Shortly thereafter, Murray took him aside with a strange request, Williams said in his testimony.

“He said, ‘Brother Michael, Mr. Jackson has some cream in the house that I knew he wouldn’t want the world to know about,’” Williams said. “It was an odd question, to ask to go to the house to get the cream.”

The doctor asked for a ride back to the mansion, but Williams said he and other security guards demurred.

Subsequently, Murray said he was going to get something to eat and left the hospital. In his cross-examination, Murray’s attorney, Ed Chernoff, questioned Williams about his connection to the

Nation of Islam and about other phone calls he made in the minutes after Murray’s call.

He also asked the personal assistant how frequently he went upstairs to Jackson’s bedroom, and whether his fingerprints may be found on vials, intravenous bags or syringes.

“I don’t know how that’s possible, I never touched any of that,” Williams said.

-- Harriet Ryan and Victoria Kim in L.A. County Superior Court

That idiot.

http://www.tmz.com/2011/0...um=twitter

MJ's Family -- Michael Predicted He'd Be Murdered

1/4/2011 10:32 AM PST by TMZ Staff

Michael Jackson's family claims the singer predicted his own death shortly before he died -- telling TMZ, the King of Pop was paranoid he'd be murdered ... for his incredibly valuable Sony catalog.


The statement is in response to the story TMZ first broke in April -- that Dr. Murray's defense will argue MJ accidentally killed himself by self-injecting a lethal dose of Propofol.

But a rep for Michael's family tells us the Jacksons are "absolutely mortified" by the implication that MJ took his own life -- insisting, "Michael did NOT kill himself.

The rep adds, "What is incredibly ironic is that Michael told his mother shortly before he died that he thought someone was going to kill him ... and they were going to kill him for his catalog."

The family is also concerned that video surveillance of Michael's last living moments -- crucial evidence in Murray's trial -- is still missing.

anyone see this???that's sad.

i wonder what they knocked me out with that time to stick the camera down my throat for ulcers? cause if it was that proferol stuff SHIT! one second i remember being on the table the next i was flying thru the air like an eagle and it was so vivid and real.

Prince was two steps in the bedroom and Paris was on her hands and knees crying outside the room while her father lay on the bed wide-eyed and open-mouthed (probably dead) while that stupid Doctor was asking if anyone knew CPR.

According to Sky News.

[Edited 1/4/11 15:14pm]

^^ Michael's paranoia over the Beatles catalogue sadly fuels a lot of the conspiracy theory. What people flat out fail to see is that the best way to get "their" hands on the catalogue wasn't to kill MJ but to let him live, let him kept spending beyond his means and place the catalogue at risk.

As we've seen (and as anyone could have predicted) Michael's death almost ensured the catalogue stayed with the estate as the sudden flush of cash assured it was protected against any loan calls it would be open to.

Back to the music

I find people who complain Michael lost his soulfulness post Thriller, miss out on many of the wonderful vocal deliveries MJ gave on each album that followed.

Sure HiStory was an angrier album (and the guy had a lot to be pissed at) but you can't deny the soul and richness in his voice that is there in tracks like Stranger In Moscow, Earth Song, You Are Not Alone, Childhood, Little Susie, Smile, and even more so on Invincible that many fans slammed for having too many slo-jams on it. Tracks like Butterflies, Break of Dawn, Whatever Happens, Speechless, Don't Walk Away, Heaven Can Wait, You Are My Life, Cry, and Lost Children show Michael still had range, control, soul and smoothness in his voice.

babybugz said:

Now Kenny Ortega says he was too weak he wasn't saying that before smh

Don't base your opinion on some media reports - many stories are leading with this but failing to mention his opening statement that MJ in the last few rehearsals was in fine form, ready and willing, and was back to his old self.

Swa said:

^^ Michael's paranoia over the Beatles catalogue sadly fuels a lot of the conspiracy theory. What people flat out fail to see is that the best way to get "their" hands on the catalogue wasn't to kill MJ but to let him live, let him kept spending beyond his means and place the catalogue at risk.

As we've seen (and as anyone could have predicted) Michael's death almost ensured the catalogue stayed with the estate as the sudden flush of cash assured it was protected against any loan calls it would be open to.

So all these Beatles (The game, The remasters, iTunes etc) releases post-MJ don't come across as strange to anyone else? Sony benefit from these releases, never mind MJ's sales as well, do they not?

We're not talking a small profit here, but millions upon millions. Overall, maybe a small percentage of a worlwide revenue for lots of entertainment products, but still, every little profit helps the shareholders and owners.

Marrk said:

Swa said:

^^ Michael's paranoia over the Beatles catalogue sadly fuels a lot of the conspiracy theory. What people flat out fail to see is that the best way to get "their" hands on the catalogue wasn't to kill MJ but to let him live, let him kept spending beyond his means and place the catalogue at risk.

As we've seen (and as anyone could have predicted) Michael's death almost ensured the catalogue stayed with the estate as the sudden flush of cash assured it was protected against any loan calls it would be open to.

So all these Beatles (The game, The remasters, iTunes etc) releases post-MJ don't come across as strange to anyone else? Sony benefit from these releases, never mind MJ's sales as well, do they not?

We're not talking a small profit here, but millions upon millions. Overall, maybe a small percentage of a worlwide revenue for lots of entertainment products, but still, every little profit helps the shareholders and owners.

Yes but so too does Michael's estate. Sony had a right to those profits as much as Michael did. Also the delay in releasing The Beatles to itunes was over a long standing copyright infringement between Apple Corps (The Beatle's company) and Apple - and once resolved then opened the way for the Beatles to be release on itunes.

Making money off the catalogue isn't evidence of a crime. Michael made money off it when he was alive, used it to gain a bigger slice of music publishing with the merge with Sony, and his estate will benefit from it for years to come.

If you wanted to take it away you'd make Michael default on it.