Harlepolis said:

Timmy84 said:

If you read one of Diana's biographies, Berry couldn't even get it up the first night.

Its the teeth, hon. I'm surprised his dick didn't develop a mind of its own and cleared the hell outta there.

I forgot about Diana's choppers...

musicjunky318 said:

TonyVanDam said:

If that's the case, then why there is room in the industry for Beyonce, Rhianna, AND Nicki Minaj to co-exist for the moment (conspiracy theories aside of course)?!? Remember, all three are black females.

The keyword was superstar. I didn't say they couldn't co-exist but there's always one that stands out from the pack.

Since you meant "superstar", Nicki is out of the equation.

But still, we're stuck with Beyonce AND Rhianna. They're both superstars on an international level, even with Beyonce being senior & Rhianna being junior.

Timmy84 said:

Harlepolis said:

Its the teeth, hon. I'm surprised his dick didn't develop a mind of its own and cleared the hell outta there.

I forgot about Diana's choppers...

TotalAlisa said:

BklynBabe said:

Arnotts said: I think people don't really think of Rihanna as Black because she comes from an Island and has green eyes.... many of my family is from Barbados and have blue, gray, and green eyes. [Edited 12/26/10 4:54am]

rihanna is BLACK

just because someone has blue, grey, purple pink, yellow eyes.. does not mean their not black...

Now stay calm Alisa. We don't want to go there with the controversial One Drop Of Black Blood Rule on them haters!

TonyVanDam said:

musicjunky318 said:

The keyword was superstar. I didn't say they couldn't co-exist but there's always one that stands out from the pack.

Since you meant "superstar", Nicki is out of the equation.

But still, we're stuck with Beyonce AND Rhianna. They're both superstars on an international level, even with Beyonce being senior & Rhianna being junior.

Fine.

I would agree though that Rihanna is not RB and never was, she is POPRB, thats the new form, Beyonce is middle of the road which is why she crosses over well too, but like i said someone like Teedra Moses could never be sold to "white" america cross country or any of the other ladies we spoke of. ALSO i would like to also say that being black doesnt make u RB, and vice versa, I mean to me someone like Mariah was more RB than Whitney ever was, but ask Gladys Knight who back in the 90's said Mariah didnt deserve to win in the black/rb categories

lastdecember said:

I mean to me someone like Mariah was more RB than Whitney ever was, but ask Gladys Knight who back in the 90's said Mariah didnt deserve to win in the black/rb categories.

Anita Baker made a similar statement as well.

See, this is why I don't like to get in the middle of these "labeling" mind games. Confusing, generate alot of petty useless talk and robs the hell out of the fun of it.

lastdecember said:

I would agree though that Rihanna is not RB and never was, she is POPRB, thats the new form, Beyonce is middle of the road which is why she crosses over well too, but like i said someone like Teedra Moses could never be sold to "white" america cross country or any of the other ladies we spoke of. ALSO i would like to also say that being black doesnt make u RB, and vice versa, I mean to me someone like Mariah was more RB than Whitney ever was, but ask Gladys Knight who back in the 90's said Mariah didnt deserve to win in the black/rb categories

Amen to that. Seeing "OMG" and "DJ Got Us Falling In Love" or the Black Eyed Peas stuff charting on R&B is just wrong.

Really no such thing as R & B these days...

Male or female

BklynBabe said:

Arnotts said:

Is Alicia Keys still big in America? I havent heard anything from her in years. But overseas (or at least in australia) Rihanna is just as big as Beyonce, and has been for a few years, so I think its upgraded to two black females at a time.

I think people don't really think of Rihanna as Black because she comes from an Island and has green eyes.... many of my family is from Barbados and have blue, gray, and green eyes. [Edited 12/26/10 4:54am]

Ummm..black folk come in a variety of skin shades, hair textures and eye colours and also they come from a variety of countries and Islands ..I'm quite sure people are aware that Rihanna is black.

HuMpThAnG said:

Really no such thing as R & B these days...

Male or female

I thought I told ya, it's called Rotating & Blunders now.

I think BklynBabe wasn't being serious with her comment.

"Do you think Beyonce's popularity ruined R&B scene for women"

No. I really don't understand that stupid belief that she's destroyed careers.
Whether it be the R&B scene or the mainstream, I think some of these chicks just made some bad career moves. Namely Ciara. That girl should be much bigger and more successful than she is. Bad management, bad attitude, and poor singles choices killed the momentum she had after Goodies/Evolution.

Harlepolis said:

musicjunky318 said:

It's a certain sound mixed with a certain image. In the 60s Aretha found crossover support, you had Gladys, you had Patti, but Diana was the one that dominated with the Supremes. No black female had ever seen the kind of response she did. In a one-on-one singing battle with the three most would agree that Ross would have probably lost but so what? It was more than vocal ability. It was PR, it was the terrific songwriting team, it was the amazing clothes, [It was the Berry Gordy penis stuffed-mouth], you know, all of that mattered and made her the icon she is.

True

I had to look twice at musicjunky's post because I thought I missed that last part

Timmy84 said:

HuMpThAnG said:

Really no such thing as R & B these days...

Male or female

I thought I told ya, it's called Rotating & Blunders now.

Beyonce is not an R&B act. She's a pop act who has favor with R&B listeners. Same was Whitney, Dionne, and Donna Summer...and Diana Ross.

I dont understand why people on here are so quick to bash todays music stars. There not that bad.

Layzie said:

"Do you think Beyonce's popularity ruined R&B scene for women"

No. I really don't understand that stupid belief that she's destroyed careers.
Whether it be the R&B scene or the mainstream, I think some of these chicks just made some bad career moves. Namely Ciara. That girl should be much bigger and more successful than she is. Bad management, bad attitude, and poor singles choices killed the momentum she had after Goodies/Evolution.

^ This.

babybugz said:

trueiopian said:

I swear this site is a music snob haven.

Are you seriously blaming Beyonce because all these other female R&B artists are lazy as hell? No. She's not to blame. No one's stopping other female R&B artists from doing what they want to do. MJB is 20 years deep into her career and still pulling in decent numbers. It can happen for the other females if they create their brand, sound and image. For some reason R&B artists today think they can hop on the scene with a hypersexualized single or build their whole image from other R&B superstars and call it a day. It doesn't work that way.

PurpleDiamond2009 said:

I dont understand why people on here are so quick to bash todays music stars. There not that bad.

U are right...............they are WORSE.

I love Beyonce a lot, and I really love her voice, but the R&B singers around her age that were popular before her had better songs though they did not have the overall package she does. Brandy and Monica have amazing songs, melodies and voices, but they don't really write songs or dance or have stage presence. Aaliyah had innovative r&b/hip hop songs, great dancing, charisma onstage and a personality, but she wasn't a powerhouse vocalist though still sweet. Mya has excellent dancing skills and good control of her voice though it's nasally. Ashanti wrote good songs that people could relate to, but her voice was nothing special and not the best though she had ok moments too at times. Tweet had innovative beats and an interesting voice but maybe mainstream didn't like that. Alicia Keys played piano though I personally think they insisted she do that to seperate herself from other r&b females though she does sing and sound like them and is a raw talent, I don't think she should dance though. I can't remember if Amerie writes her own songs but she has edge and is a good dancer with a decent voice, so I understand why many on this board are bitter about Beyonce.

In conclusion, Beyonce is good at all of the things I mentioned. You may not be a fan of her or you may not like the way she sings or dances, but no one can she can't sing for shit or that she's not talented. Saying she stole from someone doesn't count either, everyone borrows from somebody before them or from the same time as them. And people will copy the most popular act at the time or a global megastar or legend, cause those were concepts that sold. People are copying Beyonce now, but they also copied Boyz II Men in the 90's with all those r&b quartet groups, and the Beatles were copied too, as were the j5, and so on. She's combined her influences and presents them well. I wouldn't call her the best performer in the world, but of today's generation, I do believe she's the best one, though for me, it will be michael and janet forever.

2001-2002 showed a bit of promise toward young R&B sirens; Tweet, Syleena Johnson, Blu Cantrell, Lina, Sunshine Anderson, Truth Hurts, Jaguar Wright and many others to mention.

I'm saddened that all of those ladies fell into obscurity simply because they couldn't fit any major label's "quota" on how should they look and most importantly how much they should sell.

I love ALL of those ladies, esp Tweet.

PurpleDiamond2009 said:

I dont understand why people on here are so quick to bash todays music stars. There not that bad.

1. Don't get it twisted. Beyonce can still sing and is an excellent talent. But her choices of producers are not always great.

2. No matter how you justify it, Ke$ha is trash, Rhianna is a lost cause, and Nicki Minaj is a tool used for the dehumanization of black women.

THAT'S^ not bashing. THAT'S speaking the truth.

alphastreet said:

I love Beyonce a lot, and I really love her voice, but the R&B singers around her age that were popular before her had better songs though they did not have the overall package she does. Brandy and Monica have amazing songs, melodies and voices, but they don't really write songs or dance or have stage presence. Aaliyah had innovative r&b/hip hop songs, great dancing, charisma onstage and a personality, but she wasn't a powerhouse vocalist though still sweet. Mya has excellent dancing skills and good control of her voice though it's nasally. Ashanti wrote good songs that people could relate to, but her voice was nothing special and not the best though she had ok moments too at times. Tweet had innovative beats and an interesting voice but maybe mainstream didn't like that. Alicia Keys played piano though I personally think they insisted she do that to seperate herself from other r&b females though she does sing and sound like them and is a raw talent, I don't think she should dance though. I can't remember if Amerie writes her own songs but she has edge and is a good dancer with a decent voice, so I understand why many on this board are bitter about Beyonce.

In conclusion, Beyonce is good at all of the things I mentioned. You may not be a fan of her or you may not like the way she sings or dances, but no one can she can't sing for shit or that she's not talented. Saying she stole from someone doesn't count either, everyone borrows from somebody before them or from the same time as them. And people will copy the most popular act at the time or a global megastar or legend, cause those were concepts that sold. People are copying Beyonce now, but they also copied Boyz II Men in the 90's with all those r&b quartet groups, and the Beatles were copied too, as were the j5, and so on. She's combined her influences and presents them well. I wouldn't call her the best performer in the world, but of today's generation, I do believe she's the best one, though for me, it will be michael and janet forever.

all good points on all the ladies mentioned, i think the issue is mainly that the focus is just on one, but thats not Beyonces fault and to me it has nothing to do with having better music than the others, its just more direct connecting with mainstream. To me honestly i see more creativity from the rb females than the males, i see nothing that is seperating the males, to me Trey Songz and Usher and Jamie Foxx etc are all singing the same way, the same song and the same theme. The females have similar issues granted, i mean to me Keri Hilson's new cd is the same as Ciara's, same beats same production. but other females like Amerie or Teedra Moses or Teairra Mari are a little bit more edgy, or have more indentity, and yes Ameriie writes her own, produces and though with Def Jam (at the moment) the label she operates on is her own.

Harlepolis said:

2001-2002 showed a bit of promise toward young R&B sirens; Tweet, Syleena Johnson, Blu Cantrell, Lina, Sunshine Anderson, Truth Hurts, Jaguar Wright and many others to mention.

I'm saddened that all of those ladies fell into obscurity simply because they couldn't fit any major label's "quota" on how should they look and most importantly how much they should sell.

I love ALL of those ladies, esp Tweet.

It's interesting that you mention 2001-02, because Britney & Christina were still getting plenty of attention from pop culture at the time with the Britney AND Dirrty album respectfully. It was also within that date line that Mariah had that infamous nervous breakdown during the early part of his post-Sony Music Entertainment era of her career. Good grief, Jennifer Lopez had a music career!

I dare to say that 2001-02 were some harsh time for new black female artists trying to get a big break through all of THIS^ mess.

TonyVanDam said:

Harlepolis said:

2001-2002 showed a bit of promise toward young R&B sirens; Tweet, Syleena Johnson, Blu Cantrell, Lina, Sunshine Anderson, Truth Hurts, Jaguar Wright and many others to mention.

I'm saddened that all of those ladies fell into obscurity simply because they couldn't fit any major label's "quota" on how should they look and most importantly how much they should sell.

I love ALL of those ladies, esp Tweet.

It's interesting that you mention 2001-02, because Britney & Christina were still getting plenty of attention from pop culture at the time with the Britney AND Dirrty album respectfully. It was also within that date line that Mariah had that infamous nervous breakdown during the early part of his post-Sony Music Entertainment era of her career. Good grief, Jennifer Lopez had a music career!

I dare to say that 2001-02 were some harsh time for new black female artists trying to get a big break through all of THIS^ mess.

And upsetting time for great 90's r&b black female artists overall, TLC, Toni Braxton, Brandy did not do that well in sales and really deserved better promotion. I hated ashanti so much that year and hated how they slapped on the princess title on her, but now I just don't care, it was carefree, unserious music and with life being chaotic, sometimes I need to listen to stuff like that before I listen to serious music again, and I was such a music snob around that time insisting on listening to 70's and 80's and classical.

BklynBabe said:

Arnotts said:

Is Alicia Keys still big in America? I havent heard anything from her in years. But overseas (or at least in australia) Rihanna is just as big as Beyonce, and has been for a few years, so I think its upgraded to two black females at a time.

I think people don't really think of Rihanna as Black because she comes from an Island and has green eyes.... many of my family is from Barbados and have blue, gray, and green eyes. [Edited 12/26/10 4:54am]

Um who are these people?

Hell I even forget what her eye color is.

lavender1983 said:

BklynBabe said:

Arnotts said: I think people don't really think of Rihanna as Black because she comes from an Island and has green eyes.... many of my family is from Barbados and have blue, gray, and green eyes. [Edited 12/26/10 4:54am]

Ummm..black folk come in a variety of skin shades, hair textures and eye colours and also they come from a variety of countries and Islands ..I'm quite sure people are aware that Rihanna is black.

LMAO thank you. Where the hell did that come from.

[Edited 12/27/10 7:59am]

neoretro7 said:

I have noticed this past decade that there has not been no strong R&B woman in the charts lately who has never really raised any standards lately for R&B music

A part of me thinks that Beyonce's popularity is partially to blame because ever since Beyonce became this huge star every upcoming R&B diva wants to be like her and follow her formula.

With the exception of Alicia Keys who made it big before Beyonce went solo and Rihanna who eventually saved her career by reinventing herself no other R&B diva has really had the chance to become stars

I remember in pre Beyonce era there was a good array of R&B ladies like the late Aaliyah, Monica, Tweet, Amerie, Floetry, Indie Arie, Vivian Green, Heather Headely, and the more popular one Ashanti who showed great promise and great direction. Every woman was different and she had her own style but when Beyonce came along in 2003 and started a whole craze of songs i have noticed that almost every woman tried to follow her and eventually that was what happened with Amerie with this One Thing which screams Beyonce formula.

I am not trying to villianize Beyonce but a part me thinks that if Beyone had not become a huge star would we see a more colorful array of R&B female stars i pay attention to the Grammys, BET, NAACP,Soul Train Awards and it is very frustrating seeing Beyonce win every award every year whereas other women have better music substance and they hardly get credit for it.

Chile I almost gave up on you after that line, but I held on!!!!

However I agree with you ..somewhat...the other ladies just havent really tried anything new though other than Erykah Badu

Where is the rythm, where is the blues? If she is being placed in the same catagory as Sam Cooke and Gladys Knight, the world is coming to an end.