Just The Way You Are 1978

Just The Way You Are 2010

You think human's musical appreciation would advance with their intelligence....but maybe not.

From beautiful flowing chord progressions, jazz influenced colour notes and bridges with unexpected key changes to 4 chord total predictability through a whole song.

Not the same song, I know, but it's kind of symbolic.

Billy Joels reached number 3 on the hot 100 and Bruno Mars number 1 on the same chart.

Eeeeeeek!

Hmm interesing thesis.

But I like Just the way you are by Bruno Mars.

It was cute...

I admit the lyrics were cheesy as hell and stupid in some parts though.

Also... that's an interesting haircut Billy Joel. I guess he's a good artist but I tend to find him boring and lame. Sorry.

My favourite from him is 'Always a woman' or something like that.

I like both tracks. But we're taking 2 eras of music that are lightyears apart.

With Billy, the melody is important. With Bruno, the rhythm of the drum machine programming is important.

TonyVanDam said:

I like both tracks. But we're taking 2 eras of music that are lightyears apart.

With Billy, the melody is important. With Bruno, the rhythm of the drum machine programming is important.

I guess the rhythm of the drum machine is so important that he must use that rhythm quite often.

His "just the way you are" production work sounds 90% the same as "nothing on you".

Far superior bass work on "nothing on you" though. Can't beat a killer live player!

TonyVanDam said:

I like both tracks. But we're taking 2 eras of music that are lightyears apart.

Are you saying it's completely passe to release a pop song in the 2010's with chord changes past what any 5 year old could play after learning 1st year music?

nd33 said:

You think human's musical appreciation would advance with their intelligence....but maybe not.

Touche. LOL!

Please don't take any offence Asymphony5

Anyways...you can't be expected to like everything!

I saw Bruno perform two songs that he'd written back to back on just a piano and then an acoustic guitar. I don't really have hate for dude anymore. He's OK in my book.

Also, it's a generalization for sure, but how about listener regression? With the microwave society, fast edit attention span and instant availability to all types of music it seems like younger listeners are much more willing to accept something as "good" because that's what they like at the moment. There's no challenge for the listener to decide if something really contains value on a musical/song writer level, anymore.

Cerebus said:

I saw Bruno perform two songs that he'd written back to back on just a piano and then an acoustic guitar. I don't really have hate for dude anymore. He's OK in my book.

Also, it's a generalization for sure, but how about listener regression? With the microwave society, fast edit attention span and instant availability to all types of music it seems like younger listeners are much more willing to accept something as "good" because that's what they like at the moment. There's no challenge for the listener to decide if something really contains value on a musical/song writer level, anymore.

For sure, listener regression is running parallel. But which came first, the chicken or the egg?

The music industry big wigs becoming less music enthusiast and more straight up and down businessman, therefore not knowing the difference has something to do with it too.

Just trying to remember a mainstream hit song anytime recently that had anywhere near the kind of sophistication that Billy Joel's song above had. I can't think of the last time I was wowed in that way by something on the radio...

nd33 said:

TonyVanDam said:

I like both tracks. But we're taking 2 eras of music that are lightyears apart.

Are you saying it's completely passe to release a pop song in the 2010's with chord changes past what any 5 year old could play after learning 1st year music?

I'm not trying to say any of THAT^ at all, so don't get it twisted.

1970's was one of the last decades where the co-existence of melody, harmony, rhythm, & even chord changes matter in music. So far, the 2010's is all about the beats and everything else is after the fact if it's added in the equation at all. It's no different from what was going on in the 1990's & the 2000's.

Rather than repeat what I have said a zillion times on here before, I will put it like this:

[img:$uid]http://www.bikesandriders.co.uk/forum/images/smilies2/!doh.gif[/img:$uid] D'oh, I did it again. Sorry. (but its true)

nd33 said:

nd33 said:

You think human's musical appreciation would advance with their intelligence....but maybe not.

Asymphony5 said:

But I like Just the way you are by Bruno Mars.

Billy Joel. I guess he's a good artist but I tend to find him boring and lame.

Touche. LOL!

Please don't take any offence Asymphony5

Anyways...you can't be expected to like everything!

Hey, I like what I like...

And you can't blame me for finding Billy Joel boring. I still think of him as one of those cheesy old artist from wayyyyyyy back.

BlaqueKnight said:

Rather than repeat what I have said a zillion times on here before, I will put it like this:

Pop music of today is corporate music. Its all formula and no feel.

Its not made to move anything other than your feet. They have learned from their past mistakes.

The industry doesn't want music artists to make an impact beyond what they allow them to.

I've heard people say silly shit lately like "artists have no business making political statements in their music" and "they should just play and not try to get all deep".

That is the effects of corporate conditioning of the past decade talking. They have successfully reduced the expectations (and tolerance) for anything beyond a few chords and a repititious beat and melody to almost mandatory status in the minds of the masses.

In pop, you rarely hear changes, solos, thought provoking lyricism, "taboo" subject matter, etc. Those days are done. Corporate America controls the industry and they want to keep it as locked down as possible.

Fucking, money, sadness, personal conflict, cheating, dancing, drug consumption...all acceptable topics. Don't worry, be happy.

Try putting out a song in 3/4 time. The label would never push it. Its all 4/4 boring, structured bullshit with singers singing about the same old safe ass shit. Write a song about the soldiers or the war(s) we are in and go into detail. It'll never get pushed. Write a song about child abuse. It'll never get pushed. Write anything that makes people think. It won't get pushed.

The radio is no longer the place to get good music.

[img:$uid]http://www.bikesandriders.co.uk/forum/images/smilies2/!doh.gif[/img:$uid] D'oh, I did it again. Sorry. (but its true)

100% correct.

Graycap23 said:

BlaqueKnight said:

Rather than repeat what I have said a zillion times on here before, I will put it like this:

Pop music of today is corporate music. Its all formula and no feel.

Its not made to move anything other than your feet. They have learned from their past mistakes.

The industry doesn't want music artists to make an impact beyond what they allow them to.

I've heard people say silly shit lately like "artists have no business making political statements in their music" and "they should just play and not try to get all deep".

That is the effects of corporate conditioning of the past decade talking. They have successfully reduced the expectations (and tolerance) for anything beyond a few chords and a repititious beat and melody to almost mandatory status in the minds of the masses.

In pop, you rarely hear changes, solos, thought provoking lyricism, "taboo" subject matter, etc. Those days are done. Corporate America controls the industry and they want to keep it as locked down as possible.

Fucking, money, sadness, personal conflict, cheating, dancing, drug consumption...all acceptable topics. Don't worry, be happy.

Try putting out a song in 3/4 time. The label would never push it. Its all 4/4 boring, structured bullshit with singers singing about the same old safe ass shit. Write a song about the soldiers or the war(s) we are in and go into detail. It'll never get pushed. Write a song about child abuse. It'll never get pushed. Write anything that makes people think. It won't get pushed.

The radio is no longer the place to get good music.

[img:$uid]http://www.bikesandriders.co.uk/forum/images/smilies2/!doh.gif[/img:$uid] D'oh, I did it again. Sorry. (but its true)

100% correct.

Agreed, good post.

I guess popular music is now just another play in the media embedded dumbing down of the masses.

I thought I'd learn a couple Katy Perry songs but I got bored playing the same four chords over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

RodeoSchro said:

I thought I'd learn a couple Katy Perry songs but I got bored playing the same four chords over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

.........and OVER.

RodeoSchro said:

I thought I'd learn a couple Katy Perry songs but I got bored playing the same four chords over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

The redundancy of those songs are mainly a reason I avoid them altogether. It's the same song on purpose.

BlaqueKnight said:

Try putting out a song in 3/4 time. The label would never push it. Its all 4/4 boring, structured bullshit with singers singing about the same old safe ass shit.

Totally agree with this. One of the music trade publications did a really large piece on how tempo is driving commercial radio right now. Studies were done that showed upbeat songs with few changes in them keep more people from switching to another station. It was a very interesting read, but the end result sucks for those who don't want to listen to that pablum.

Asymphony5 said:

But I like Just the way you are by Bruno Mars.

It was cute...

I admit the lyrics were cheesy as hell and stupid in some parts though.

Also... that's an interesting haircut Billy Joel. I guess he's a good artist but I tend to find him boring and lame. Sorry.

My favourite from him is 'Always a woman' or something like that.

Bruno Mars is terrible

PoppyBros said:

Asymphony5 said:

But I like Just the way you are by Bruno Mars.

It was cute...

I admit the lyrics were cheesy as hell and stupid in some parts though.

Also... that's an interesting haircut Billy Joel. I guess he's a good artist but I tend to find him boring and lame. Sorry.

My favourite from him is 'Always a woman' or something like that.

Bruno Mars is terrible

Calm down.

Does it make you that angry that I like one song? It's not even Lil Wayne horrible. Sheesh, I think you need to log off the internet now.

Dude's music isn't my necessarilly my thing, but I don't think he "sucks". Especially not in comparison to a lot of other people who are HUGE right now but can't play instuments, can't sing without pitch correction and aren't writing their own songs. This guy not only does all that but he writes with/for other people on a regular basis (like Cee Lo's "Fuck You").

Cerebus said:

Dude's music isn't my necessarilly my thing, but I don't think he "sucks". Especially not in comparison to a lot of other people who are HUGE right now but can't play instuments, can't sing without pitch correction and aren't writing their own songs. This guy not only does all that but he writes with/for other people on a regular basis (like Cee Lo's "Fuck You").

Aaah! I always thought the writing (melodic) of "F*** You" was too bland and boring for a Cee-Lo production. Makes sense now LOL!

Cerebus said:

BlaqueKnight said:

Try putting out a song in 3/4 time. The label would never push it. Its all 4/4 boring, structured bullshit with singers singing about the same old safe ass shit.

Totally agree with this. One of the music trade publications did a really large piece on how tempo is driving commercial radio right now. Studies were done that showed upbeat songs with few changes in them keep more people from switching to another station. It was a very interesting read, but the end result sucks for those who don't want to listen to that pablum.

Yeah, we need more bands like TOOL. Some of their time signatures are crazy.

Cerebus said:

aren't writing their own songs.

That isn't a bad thing. Self writing is one of the reasons popular music today is not good. A lot of acts in the old days had professional songwriters or songwriters for hire giving them songs such as Goffin & King, Leiber & Stoller, Linda Creed & Thom Bell, Burt Bacharach, Gamble & Huff, Holland Dozier Holland, David Foster, Asford & Simpson, etc. Others did covers like Rare Earth and some of the songs Creedence Clearwater Revival had on their albums. Today, there's maybe Diane Warren, but even she is mostly used by older performers. Many acts nowadays only care about the money and not the songs, so insist on writing their own material (or sticking their name on stuff they didn't write, but that has always happened), when they have no talent to do so. The younger pop acts, producers, and songwriters grew up in the programming & sampling era and not the musician era, and don't didn't learn to play. You don't really need musicians today, just a cheap keyboard, drum machine, sampler, and some software. So you can't really expect a computer program to "write" music in a traditional way. You can say the songs today are E-mail and the Billy Joel era and the music before are pony express. That said, an actual musician (instead of a beatmaker) can use technology and do something with it like Herbie Hancock, Stevie Wonder, Prince, Kraftwerk, or Phil Collins.

Timmy84 said:

RodeoSchro said:

I thought I'd learn a couple Katy Perry songs but I got bored playing the same four chords over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

The redundancy of those songs are mainly a reason I avoid them altogether. It's the same song on purpose.

You guys should try Paramore, they switch it up all the time thats why i'm so into them, if the music sounds boring, something intresting will happen with the vocals, if the vocals sound repetitive you'll soon here an unexpected instrument arrangement...