musicjunky318 said:

Beyonce became a pop icon when she went solo with Dangerously In Love and effectively ended Ashanti, Monica, and Brandy's careers.

[Edited 12/21/10 14:40pm]

And this proves that even Beyoncé's WORST efforts will still steamroll the other girls.

babybugz said:

ratchetchan said:

Ain't nobody say you didn't like the bitch. KAN U NAT REED?

And NO -- she DOESN'T need to take a break. That's what I said, and my opinion matters more than yours, since I can properly spell, capitalize, and punctuate MINE. You gon' check me? Come on through this screen and do it, Harriet!

That's exactly what I thought.

It's too soon to consider her an icon.

mikematronik said:

It's too soon to consider her an icon legend.

She is an icon.

Timmy84 said:

musicjunky318 said:

Beyonce became a pop icon when she went solo with Dangerously In Love and effectively ended Ashanti, Monica, and Brandy's careers.

[Edited 12/21/10 14:40pm]

Playing Devil's Advocate, it was the videos to "Crazy in Love" and "Single Ladies" that put her in the icon status, especially the latter one if we want to be specific lol

Pretty much lol. "Single Ladies" solidified her status and relevance in pop culture for me.

you dont have to like somebody for them to be an icon, she is definately a pop icon and one of the very few real superstars of this generation.

kitbradley said:

Anybody is considered a Pop Icon nowadays.

Her being able to look at Jay-Z face all day is an accomplishment.

babybugz said:

Her being able to look at Jay-Z face all day is an accomplishment.

HAHAHAHAHA. Can you imagine rolling over in the morning and the first face you see is camel? I don't know how she does it.

musicjunky318 said:

babybugz said:

Her being able to look at Jay-Z face all day is an accomplishment.

HAHAHAHAHA. Can you imagine rolling over in the morning and the first face you see is camel? I don't know how she does it.

He has a Big Ego

babybugz said:

musicjunky318 said:

HAHAHAHAHA. Can you imagine rolling over in the morning and the first face you see is camel? I don't know how she does it.

He has a Big Ego

LOL. And he stores lots of good stuff in his humps.

WEEEEEEEE!

midiscover said:

HAHAHAHAHA. Come on Hov you fucked up the party for everybody.

musicjunky318 said:

midiscover said:

HAHAHAHAHA. Come on Hov you fucked up the party for everybody.

It was an Illuminati Ritual.

babybugz said:

musicjunky318 said:

HAHAHAHAHA. Come on Hov you fucked up the party for everybody.

It was an Illuminati Ritual.

I think she is a pop icon. She's already has had a really good and relevant career for the past 10 years. Now, I think she's moving into new territory. Will she be considered a pop and/or music legend though? Only time will tell.

Can and will she ever be placed amongst the ranks of acts such as: Michael Jackson, Prince, The Clash, Jimi Hendrix, Madonna, The Beatles, Bob Dylan, James Brown, Celia Cruz, Aretha Franklin, Elvis, Buddy Holly, Janis Joplin, and etc? What has she done in her career to reach that sort of level? Will she ever reach that sort of level in her career or is she already past her peak and it's just too late at this point? Though, I think that all of those examples I listed earlier, have all been very culturally and musically significant in their careers. While I like Beyonce's music, is there anything any of us can say that she's innovated in her past 10 years as a solo artist? How has she evolved musically & artistically? Has she evolved musically and/or artistically? What have been her contributions to music & society so far? Is it still just too early to tell? Has she already reached her peak or is she even anywhere close to it?

Personally, when I think of Beyonce...I don't think of anything like that. I see someone who has great talent, but hides behind safe dance-poppy r&b tunes & ballads. I don't see someone who ever, really, took a chance and a gamble and made any sort of impact on anything. I'm not trying to imply that she hasn't been influential, because she is and will be. Yet, I don't see a definite musical or cultural impact that I can relate her to either. I could be wrong, but that is what it seems like to me. Even when I think back to the 2000s, while I remember her being apart of it, figures, such as Eminem, Kanye West, and Britney Spears stand out to me a whole lot more. There is more to being a legend than just being able to sing really well or being able to sell a few singles or boxes of perfume I think. I would think that it involves being really creative and being able to think outside of the box. To do something daring and to take a huge chance and to be successful at it.

So while I think she will probably have a pretty long career, I still would not put her in the running of a 'legend' in that respect. I think that Lady Gaga has a better chance of that even for her relatively very short career and if she were to pass tomorrow there is a high possibility that she would totally get the Kurt Cobain treatment. Though tomorrow Beyonce could, very well, surprise us, so who knows?

[Edited 12/21/10 21:35pm]

musicjunky318 said:

Timmy84 said:

Playing Devil's Advocate, it was the videos to "Crazy in Love" and "Single Ladies" that put her in the icon status, especially the latter one if we want to be specific lol

The Single Ladies video put her over the top. Yup. She was already one but when that was released it was really certified. Kinda like Billie Jean & Beat it came before Thriller but when the latter premiered the shit hit the fan for real.

i wonder who is beyonce inspiring...

Cinnie said:

Records don't get much bigger than "Single Ladies". Grandma knows who Beyonce is. Etc Yes she will be remembered, she probably isn't going away either. She's gonna be performing when she looks like her mom.

i have to agree... anytime grandma knows who beyonce is.. she is a "pop icon" she may not have had a big impact on pop culture...

if i hadn't of known about her stealing credits, and ideas from other artist... maybe i could see her in a different light. But just her willing to do anything to be on top is something that doesn't sit well..

In a word... NO!!

ratchetchan said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

What does Gaga have to with this?

Gaga writes her own songs, plays piano, sings every song LIVE...on the other hand, we have Beyonce, who CLAIMS to write her own songs, have never touched a musical instrument and performs 70% pre-recorded vocal shows...come on

at all of that bullshit that just so happens to be irrelevant to the topic.

Gaga co-writes JUST like Beyoncé, the only reason you idiots don't jump on her is because she's white and therefore not a threat to your "real R&B singers".

Beyoncé has played piano and guitar. She just doesn't anymore because she doesn't have to. KI!

"Telephone" isn't live (and the studio version, like so many of her songs, is autotuned - Beyoncé's verse WASN'T, and it actually had a vocal arrangment).

Beyoncé writes her own songs, and has always maintained this. She has NEVER said that she writes them alone.

70% pre-recorded sit DOWN. Even if that were TRUE, that 30% that would BE live is and will ALWAYS be better than any other bitch to touch a mike. Yes, ANY.

Show me a song Beyonce wrote by herself .. What do you mean Telephone wasn't live? Every performance Gaga has EVER did was LIVE.

Lady Gaga >>> Beyonce. The end

ViintageJunkiie said:

ratchetchan said:

at all of that bullshit that just so happens to be irrelevant to the topic.

Gaga co-writes JUST like Beyoncé, the only reason you idiots don't jump on her is because she's white and therefore not a threat to your "real R&B singers".

Beyoncé has played piano and guitar. She just doesn't anymore because she doesn't have to. KI!

"Telephone" isn't live (and the studio version, like so many of her songs, is autotuned - Beyoncé's verse WASN'T, and it actually had a vocal arrangment).

Beyoncé writes her own songs, and has always maintained this. She has NEVER said that she writes them alone.

70% pre-recorded sit DOWN. Even if that were TRUE, that 30% that would BE live is and will ALWAYS be better than any other bitch to touch a mike. Yes, ANY.

Show me a song Beyonce wrote by herself .. What do you mean Telephone wasn't live? Every performance Gaga has EVER did was LIVE.

Lady Gaga >>> Beyonce. The end

neither

First African-American female and second overall female to win the "Songwriter of the Year" award from the American Society of Composers, Authors, and Publishers Pop Music Awards (2001).

No comment
First and only woman to have a single and album simultaneously topping the main charts in both the U.S. and the UK (2003).

Pretty much irrelevant award since many females had the same debut single topping both charts just it happened in different weeks, so what's the big deal?
Tied for most Grammy Awards won in a single night by a female artist (five in 2004).

And since then the Grammys are considered generally irrelevant, or at least not what they used to be
Biggest jump in Billboard history with "Beautiful Liar" (from number ninety-four to number three).

OK so what? Others have entered right in at #1. Plus those records depend on Billboard's ever-changing rules so this is not a serious record at all.
Longest stay at number-one on the Billboard Hot 100 within a year for a female ever (seventeen weeks with "Crazy in Love" and "Baby Boy").

Another non-serious record. Mariah spend 24 weeks on top with the two first singles from "Daydream", the fact that the year changed right in the middle of "One Sweet Day"'s run doesn't really make a difference to anyone except people who just wanna give Beyonce records
Handled twice the record of most weeks spent at the top of the Billboard Hot 100 in a single year by a female artist (seventeen weeks in 2003 and eight weeks in 2006).

I'm sure Mariah (who is not my favourite artist at all) and others have been handled this twice or more as well
First non-athlete, non-model to appear on the cover of the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue and also the second African-American (the first being Tyra Banks) to do so (2007).

Irrelevant to pop music
Ranked number one on AskMen.com 's list of Top 99 Most Desirable Women of 2007, voted by 8.5 million men.[24]

Same as above
Tied for third most successful song on the Billboard Hot 100 by a solo female artist (Irreplaceable).

OK this is a worth-mentioning fact although this too is heavily depended on Billboard's rules and labels' policies. For example 7 out of the 10 songs to spend the longest time ever on top of BB100 come from the '90s whereas the remaining 3 from the '00s. Does that reflect the overall popularity of those decades in music history? Hell no
Irreplaceable is the first song to top twelve Billboard charts simultaneously (December 30, 2006).

Same as above
First artist to have a number-one single ("Check on It"), a number-one film (The Pink Panther), and win a Grammy Award in the same week (February 2006).

Many others did it in separate weeks, the same week thing in unimportant
First female artist to have a number-one single single and win a Grammy Awards in the same week twice ("Check on It" and "Irreplaceable", consecutively).

See the comment above and the comment about her Grammy wins
Second artist to have two songs in the same year passing the two hundred-million audience mark ("Irreplaceable" and "Check on It" in 2006).

OK I accept, this one is worth-mentioning
Is the singer with the biggest film debut ever with Austin Powers in Goldmember when it grossed $213,307,889 in America alone.

"Austin Powers" was/is a successful franchise, so it cannot be compared with "Purple Rain" or even "The Bodyguard" where the singer was pretty much the main draw (along with Kevin Kostner as far as "The Bodyguard" is concerned.
Most number-ones by lead female artist in a decade ( "Crazy In Love" , "Baby Boy" ,"Check on It" , "Irreplaceable" & "Single Ladies").

Madonna had more in the '80s, Whitney in the '90s and Rihanna has far more in her first half-decade although she was unfortunate enough to have the decade turn before she passes Beyonce. This record in short is depended on when the solo career of whoever started and is heavily in favour of stars such as Beyonce who began in the beginnng of the decade. Doesn't prove she's as much more popular than her peers as it suggests
Female artist with the most cumlative weeks at number one (37 weeks) this decade ( "Crazy in Love" 8 weeks , "Baby Boy" 9 weeks , "Check on It" 5 weeks , "Irreplaceable" 10 weeks & "Single Ladies" 5 weeks.

I won't argue with that, that's a real record

Female artist attained the most to five hits and the most top tens on the Hot 100 this decade with twelve.

Same as above although Rihanna has almost the same number of Top 5s and Top 10s in half the time than Beyonce's solo career

First Female to ever be awarded the International Artist Award at the American Music Awards (2007).

Means nothing. It is an international award awarded from a USA and not an international institution
Honored the Legend award for Outstanding Contribution To The Arts at the World Music Awards (2008).

They honour whoever is willing to appear in their shows. They never awarded Madonna for example even though every credible source suggests that she sold more than Mariah internationally
Dangerously in Love was listed as one of the top 200 Definitive albums in music history by the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. She was one of a few artist of her generation to be mentioned on the list.

Even in a decade of weak music in general, "Dangerously In Love" is not all that IMO
Knowles is also one of a few African American females to have had three or more Golden Glode nominations.

OK, that's a serious achievement
Lead singer of the biggest selling female group of all time Destiny's Child.

Oh please.... The Supremes anyone? Even TLC have sold more than DC

Most grammies won in one by a female artist in one night with six

And the grammies' credibility went down the toilet

Knowles is one of the most honored artists by the Grammys, and third among female artists,^[7] with 16 awards—13 as a solo artist and three as a member of Destiny's Child

Same as above

So out of 24 so-called achievements, just 5-6 are really important. Do those 5-6 make her a '00s pop icon? yes. Do the other 18-19 suggest she is overrated? Hell yes. Do those 5-6 make her a legend compared to the divas of decades before? No. Will she reach that status in the future? Perhaps, she certainly has the talent but so do many others. My guess is probably not

how many hits has she actually written?

I would say yes, although she does not have that one DEFINING moment that resonates with the masses to compliment her music. She is constantly in the news, BUT there has never been one of those "aha" moments that jump out(IMO). Using the 80's Big Three as an example:

MJ-Moonwalk on Motown 25 (and other things)

Prince-Purple Rain (the movie and other things)

Madonna-Like A Virgin (performance at VMAs and other things)

Even if you go back the previous decades, Bowie, Marvin, Stevie, The Beatles, Diana Ross, Elton John and others had that one thing that complimented their music and only enhanced their image (usually for the better).

She (Beyonce) has outsold and outperformed many of her peers, but something is missing. Not necessarily a fault of hers, but the way media is now, it doesn't allow for too many genuine opportunities to make a cultural statement.

When she has one of these moments, then your question will be answered...

[Edited 12/22/10 5:52am]

MyLuv229 said:

Depends how we define icon.

She definitely has a lot of accolades under her belt, but the biggest impact (in my opinion) - the true testament of an icon - is leaving an imprint in the music industry and inspiring others. Awards don't do that. The cultural impact an artist has is the true mark of an icon (again, in my opinion).

Yes, the general public do not remember awards..they remember your songs, and what you did with your career.