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There's really no point in arguing about illegal downloads.It's here to stay.People in the music industry simply need to find a way to adapt.The old business model is obsolete. | |
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Very interesting viewpoint. | |
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I see what you're saying but unfortunately,I don't think that illegal downloading is gonna kill shit hop.This crap STILL sells millions,despite the illegal downloads. | |
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I recall something that you said on a recent Nelly thread.You suggested that,since singles still sell,some artists should stop doing complete albums and focus solely on singles.It makes alot of sense.Kids don't like having to buy an entire 14-track CD when they only like one or two songs on it.Many of today's pop stars are really just 'single artists' anyway,releasing bloated albums loaded with filler.
Thoughts?
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And beside, there're many artists today who have used the "free downloading" to their advantage, and guess what? They expanded their audience, who in return are going out of their way to see them live.
The short sighted corporate world should've followed their own coined "if you can't beat them, join them" phrase instead of engaging in a lost battle. It has been, lets see, how many years? Oh yeah, a DECADE since their handsomely paid resistance against this movement | |
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Exactly! It's amazing that,after all these years,the music industry still can't find a way to deal with illegal downloading.Because of their stupidity,they deserve to fail. | |
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A lot of them deserve the money they make. The ones who actually write songs and play instruments spend thousands upon thousands of hours practicing, rehearsing, recording, tweaking etc. its not an easy job - concert ticket sales & album sales is them being payed for their hard work. The better the record, the harder they worked and the more money they deserve, simple!
Besides, I think great talent is priceless.
Of course many of todays "pop stars" barely deserve minimum wage, but thats another story! [Edited 12/21/10 6:35am] | |
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I think thats the point really - how are they supposed to adapt a new business model to illegal downloading? If costa coffee was giving away their coffee for free all day, all night, then Starbucks would go absolutley bankrupt no matter how it changed its "business model"
No business model can compete with an outlet that lets you have all the music you want, whenever you want, for absolutley nothing. | |
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Record label Execs are still making most of the money, its the artists who are getting ripped off even more because their 7% royaltee fee on album sales has essentially been slashed in half!
These people spend a lot of time on these albums, theres a reason it takes 2 or 3 years for a new release.
You sacrifice much of your childhood to practice an instrument/singing 3-4 hours a day, learn music theory and songwriting and write us a few hit albums, then go on a 3 month tour around the world playing 5 shows a week & tell me thats easy! | |
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Not trying to justify anything.. I don't answer to you my friend. There are bigger thieves in the world than myself, you probably know their faces as you voted for them. Time would be better spent concentrating on the big fish | |
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Yeah, simple.
But most artists don't make money with their records, or only little. Most are paid a recoupable advance that is never fully recouped. And in the few cases that it is, their royalty rates are low.
Record companies use a business model that is build on losing out 95% of the time. The few times that they do sell a lot, they make all the money. It's their bread and butter.
This business model was always already pretty bad, but still sustainable as long as a company would have a couple of big sellers. The internet has changed that. Not only do the big artists sell less units now making their profit margins smaller, they lose out more on smaller artists too.
So when it does hurt record companies and major artists, filesharing does not hurt the majority of recording artists. In fact most stand to gain from it. Like others have stated and like radio has proven and the internet will too, artists gain more fans and sell more concert tickets when their music gets freely promoted on a wide scale.
Smart artists know this, see this, accept the inevitable and adapt to it. They try to take advantage of it and do not hold on to a sinking ship that is their record company, which even it wanted to, is unable to adapt to the new musical environment.
In order to adapt they need a business model that isn't build on selling as much copies as possible anymore, but on acquiring a (musical/social) network of loyal supporters and customers.
Major record companies aren't fit to do that.
Artists need a company, preferably their own, that is small, yet reliable, while also creative and flexible, so it is always able to stay on top of new trends and adapt to them.
They need to embrace file sharing networks and use them as promotion tools, instead of trying to kill ghosts. Appreciate them, for the free promotion tools that they are.
All of them need to go along with successful websites like Itunes and such. Don't limit your content; make it legally available as widely as possible.
Artists also need a model that offers the music lover something of extra value over free downloads, like DVD's, rare recordings on CD or acces to the best concert tickets, so they CAN compete with totally free offerings.
They need not become greedy; they can make their short term big money by touring and their money for the long term by acquiring a loyal network of customers.
Most of all, they need to stay in touch with their customers/fans, don't try and scold them for whatever reason, but respect them always and offer them what they want. When they want live recordings you give them live recordings, when they want new songs, you give them new songs. When they want bootlegs, you give them bootlegs.
Most people WANT to support their favorite artists or any artist that deserves to be paid for their hard work. But most do not want to pay a bunch of middlemen for sucking the blood out of their musical idols.
The internet just gives them a choice now and that is good. It forces the majors to clean up their shit or die. And it gives artists a fantastic worldwide platform to promote and sell their music on.
Who could oppose that?
- [Edited 12/21/10 12:15pm] | |
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MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.....
who are all these people.. i swear its the same person with different accounts.. I HAVE NEVER SEEN these people before...
[Edited 12/21/10 17:03pm] |
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not even worth acknowledging... [Edited 12/21/10 16:31pm] |
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At the end of the day, labels have adjusted, look at who's writing these kind of articles?? Are labels? no WHY, they are still getting paid, they already changed the business model, its not about music anymore, music is the fries with the meal, its meanigless to them, they dont care, they dont care who they sign, or brings in the cash and why, just as long as they bring it in, its bottom line, just like Prince eons ago, when MTV came into the picture and then got bought up and sold and vh1 and bet all went to mergers and shit like that, and all the retailers went out of business, MUSIC is gone folks, yes its still out there in abundance, BUT THE SELLING MUSIC days are long gone, so dont even bother with the threads about albums not selling this or that, because its ONLY going to get worse, if you think sales are going to go up because steve jobs puts bonus tracks in a store, ure nuts. iTunes makes him money, and labels SHIT LOADS of money, and even less for the artists. Downloading will never stop, because peoples mindsets are HEY ITS ON THE NET I CAN HAVE IT, you cant change that, i dont care what you do, whether the music is shit or good, its gonna get ripped off, so there is no adjustement or argument, MUSIC selling is over, regardless of how good or bad it is, so order some fries. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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TotalAlisa send me an orgnote that I don't have a saying on this forum. I did not know these were the social codes on this forum:
MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS..... 99% of my posts are ironic. Maybe this post sides with the other 1%. | |
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^^ take it up with the mods you two if needed, but dont put it on this thread please. | |
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No they haven't.
They fought the internet for more than a decade and only lost money and standing on persecuting individual downloaders, filing lawsuits everywhere and installing pointless technological measures on CD and DVD's like copy protection.
It is only since a couple of years that there are websites that make popular music, legally available on a wide scale, that are legal, affordable and custom friendly. And it took other companies, like Apple, than the entertainment giants, to come to this. If those companies wouldn't have taken the initative and invested the money, nothing would have changed by now and there STILL wouldn't be a legal and viable, digital downloading alternative!
So now companies like Apple are the big dogs in the new digital downloading market. And artists who are SIGNED to the majors indeed still get fucked over, because like said, they signed away all their rights and their royalty rates are usually low, if any. And since most of them don't recoup their advances either, nothing changes for them as long as they are signed to such a company under such a contract.
There will be those however, who are true and smart artists, who have real talent and who are willing to make sacrifices for their art and their audience, who they place above money and fame. And all of them will have woken up one day, while technology, touring and a network of loyal fans and customers will help them to get by.
These days it's not terribly costly anymore to produce a decent record, nor to promote yourself to a large public, so once they have smartened up and freed themselves from the contracts and the illusions of the sinking industry, there is a bright future ahead for them.
This a long and tough process but is an inevitable one and just a matter of time before this will materialise...
-- [Edited 12/22/10 8:47am] | |
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Well, I still say download on and also to those of you who have kids or neices and nephews that like shit hop, don't spend money on buying them a CD. If they have a CD that another sibling, neice, nephew, or friend likes, scan it in the computer and make them a copy of it instead of buying them the CD. Every free copy is less money in the shit hoppers' pockets.
By all means, support and buy funk or any other form of music but when it comes to shit hop, please DO NOT buy it. Download or copy it! Also, tell everyone you know to do the same thing. Get enough people doing it and the bullshit will finally die a much deserved death. Don't sell the copy because that's illegal but copy it and give it to them as a gift. They'll be happy because they didn't have to pay for it and you'll be happier in the end when the bullshit finally goes bankrupt. The funny thing is, they are happy receiving their free gift but are too stupid to realize that it is hurting a genre they like and could help to kill it. But then again, they ain't too bright anyway for liking the bullshit. Ain't I a eeeeeevil old bitch?!!! . . .
[Edited 12/22/10 10:31am] Andy is a four letter word. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
If this is the coup de grace against the current industry which supports shit-dance, shit-hop and Rhythmless&Bullshit, FINE  | |
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Actually they have adjusted because you are thinking of Labels as still selling "music" selling Music is over, that shit died a long time ago, they are selling you "brands" now, they have adjusted because they still what they get, you arent going to beat downloading, i dont care what hook up labels WOULD HAVE arranged, as soon as people saw a way to get things FREE they ran with it, so labels and iTunes and artists ALL could have come up with a friendly plan, dropped prices etc....BUT PEOPLE STILL WOULD BE DOWNLOADING in great numbers. People feel they are entitled to free music now, so they just go for it, its the way of the world, i have seen everyone from 6 year olds to 60 year olds doing it. And lets not forget, iTunes as great as it is for steve jobs i dont mean anything to the artists, just a few more pennies barely, and what really sells in droves are singles and album tracks, album sales are dead all around, digital sales may be up, but the picture is everything is way down, so iTunes isnt winning any battles, 2% of what people have on their iPod is legally obtained, you can do the math on that one.
So labels now are not in the music business, they are in the Brand business, 360 deals make them shit loads, take an artist like Rihanna, she brings shit loads in for a label, she may not even sell a million of a record, but she generates, millions in revenue, and under her deal, most of that goes to her label, and she is just an example, do even let me get started on what people like Kesha and Beiber generate for them, so trust me, someone like Ciara selling 40,000 records isnt even worth a labels concern, because they arent gonna spend on her, shes a write off at this point, as is Keri Hilson's new cd, the label has written it off already. So like im saying u can look at billboard and these BS articles written by bloggers about how much an artist isnt selling, labels dont care unless they invested something great in it, bottom line is the bottom line, numbers dont really mean anything anymore thats 1998-2000 type thinking when the Backstreet Boys could sell a million in an afternoon, those days of selling are gone, and they arent coming back, regardless of quality, prices, who works out deals with who, people can get shit for free they are going to take it! "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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what are you thirteen or something? your comment about not caring about musicians losing money because of illegal activity was ignorant and stupid. you can use profanity, use all caps and middle fingers you please but it won't change your comment was DUMB | |
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well if only it was the crap music that was affected then it would fine. problem is that most people are easily-impressed lemmings who like bad hip hop | |
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exactly. it's wrong and people who do it are are morally deficient but they sure love to find excuses, justifications and rationalizations for stealing...record companies are bad blah blah musicians are too rich...etc....everyone else is doing so they need to change their model....whatever. if you steal music you're a jerk. period. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Did you guys even read this?
Most artists don't make money with their records, or only little. Most are paid a recoupable advance that is never fully recouped. And in the few cases that it is, their royalty rates are low.
Record companies use a business model that is build on losing out 95% of the time. The few times that they do sell a lot, they make all the money. It's their bread and butter.
This business model was always already pretty bad, but still sustainable as long as a company would have a couple of big sellers. The internet has changed that. Not only do the big artists sell less units now making their profit margins smaller, they lose out more on smaller artists too.
So when it does hurt record companies and major artists, filesharing does not hurt the majority of recording artists. In fact most stand to gain from it. Like others have stated and like radio has proven and the internet will too, artists gain more fans and sell more concert tickets when their music gets freely promoted on a wide scale.
Smart artists know this, see this, accept the inevitable and adapt to it. They try to take advantage of it and do not hold on to a sinking ship that is their record company, which even it wanted to, is unable to adapt to the new musical environment.
In order to adapt they need a business model that isn't build on selling as much copies as possible anymore, but on acquiring a (musical/social) network of loyal supporters and customers.
Major record companies aren't fit to do that.
Artists need a company, preferably their own, that is small, yet reliable, while also creative and flexible, so it is always able to stay on top of new trends and adapt to them.
They need to embrace file sharing networks and use them as promotion tools, instead of trying to kill ghosts. Appreciate them, for the free promotion tools that they are.
All of them need to go along with successful websites like Itunes and such. Don't limit your content; make it legally available as widely as possible.
Artists also need a model that offers the music lover something of extra value over free downloads, like DVD's, rare recordings on CD or acces to the best concert tickets, so they CAN compete with totally free offerings.
They need not become greedy; they can make their short term big money by touring and their money for the long term by acquiring a loyal network of customers.
Most of all, they need to stay in touch with their customers/fans, don't try and scold them for whatever reason, but respect them always and offer them what they want. When they want live recordings you give them live recordings, when they want new songs, you give them new songs. When they want bootlegs, you give them bootlegs.
Most people WANT to support their favorite artists or any artist that deserves to be paid for their hard work. But most do not want to pay a bunch of middlemen for sucking the blood out of their musical idols.
The internet just gives them a choice now and that is good. It forces the majors to clean up their shit or die. And it gives artists a fantastic worldwide platform to promote and sell their music on.
Who could oppose that?
| |
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Tremolina has some great ideas on how the music industry can deal with illegal downloading.....
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Dude when you are going to drop numbers like that you are just talking what you think is true, not what is. There is no way you or anyone can know what people have on their ipods and how much of it is legally obtained. I can tell you mine is 100% filled with legally obtained music. Maybe yours is not, maybe your friends' are not, or your grandpa's, but that's your neck of the woods then. I know there are still plenty of people who are wiling to support their favorite artists. More than enough for true artists I am sure to make a decent living off.
Now, as for your repeated comments that record companies have adjusted to the internet by using 360 deals: yes, big artists with those kind of contracts make them a lot of money that way, but these type of contracts are not new. Record companies have always sought as much profit and control as possible over recording artists and their work, but their core busines is and still remains: producing and selling records as much as possible.
Why do you think they have always battled any new copy and internet technology with such agressiveness? Because making records to copy, dsitribute and sell them is THEIR CORE BUSINESS. Always has been, always will be, because without at least one record, there is no music, no artist and nothing to sell, nothing to perform live or to showcase on MTV nor anything to promote and merchandise. The industry is still fixed on that whole standard process. Hell, they STILL invest millions of dollars in producing shitloads of CD's with one or two OK songs by artists hardly anybody buys these days.
They are NOT doing well, 360 deals or not, because they have failed to make music legally available on the internet and make money with it. What they should have done, 10 years ago already, is make their music available on a large scale and in an attractive manner, like Apple has done. Then they would have controlled the market and would have already made shitloads of money. But they failed to do that and that's the major reason why they are doing so bad now. Not because so many people choose to share files, but because they haven't offered a viable, legal alternative for way too long.
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[Edited 12/23/10 4:27am] | |
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The digital world doesn't work like that, but unfortunately most in the industry still don't see that nor are they willing to accept it. | |
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haha SoulAlive, my ideas will not be shared by those who are in the industry because they are paralysed, fixed, locked into the angry thinking that they are just being robbed and that they will not make anything available to the public without having 100% insurance that it will not be "stolen" and that they will have a return on their investment, preferably with a huge profit margin.
true | |
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