Curtwill1975 said:

WaterInYourBath said:

Definitely. Nonetheless, I would like to hear Beyonce cover some of Janet's hit songs one day, as she has with a few of Michael's. Janet's music accompanied by Beyonce's style of singing would be an interesting combination.

Oh, and on a side note, regardless of her present condition, all people who call The Voice "shitney" intrinsically lose all credibility as contemporary vocal experts/historians/whatever. Even Beyonce herself, as much as I love her power, still can't even compare to Whitney Houston in her prime. The only ones who have come close were Mariah, and now Jennifer Hudson, but also still did not/will not ascend over Whitney Houston vocally, ESPECIALLY not live onstage. All opinions aside, anyone who has actually studied these artists would know this.

Whitney had the best instrument, but I think Ella, Aretha, and Babs would disagree with you in terms of vocals because they had more musicianship than Whitney and knew how to use their voice better. And I could name Sarah, Dinah, Billie and Nina also if I want to. But Whitney had the best instrument vocally though.

I can respect your perspective. Although, this is how I look at it: Could any of those women have performed Whitney's songs better than Whitney? I don't believe so. Especially those whose vocality was limited to a very particular style (specifically jazz artists like Ella and Billie). But on the contrary, Whitney in, let's say 1987, could and did cover Aretha, Diana, etc, and did indeed perform their songs at a more superlative level. So yeah, she did have the best vocal instrument, and has proved that immensely. Therefore, back to my point, all this "shitney" name-calling crap is suited for nothing else besides a toilet.

[Edited 2/7/11 18:57pm]

musicjunky318 said:

ThePopLover2 said:

You're not getting the point . Who is Beyonce's Rival?Rihanna?Lady Gaga? Notice how none of the have no where near as much talent as Janet in her 40's! Let alone her prime!

You said Every Beyonce's 3 albums have won a grammy? Janet's First 3 albums made HISTORY.

Control has the most AMA nominations.(11)

Rhythm Nation has the most Top 5 singles WHICH cause her to have won the most billboard awards in one night for female artist.

"Janet" was the first album to debut at 1 during the soundscan era.

Btw Janet has been out for 30yrs, Beyonce has only been out for 9 yrs. She went solo in 2003 right?

BEYONCE HAS 16 GRAMMYS. ONLY ALISON KRAUSS AND QUEEN 'RETHA HAVE MORE AMONG FEMALE ARTISTS. AND SHE'S ONLY 29.

Janet Won the most amount of Billboard awards for a female artist!In ONE NIGHT! and she was only 24!!!!

Curtwill1975 said:

TotalAlisa said:

Beyonce is only considered the most talent of this decade because the artist of this decade have NO real talent..

Beyonce alone would NOT have survived the 90s or 80s because she would be competing with janet jackson at her peak....

janet jackson HAS ZERO to prove, even with her albums of 2000s not being successful she already accomplished a lot musically.... beyonce is still trying to get where janet is...

That's not true. There is a lot of talent in this decade. There is just not a lot of artist who have Bey's skill set meaning, the ability to sing and dance extremely well.

Just like there were a lot of artists who could do what Janet did and trust me, labels tried to find them. If Bey was in the 60s(for example), she would be Berry Gordy's wet dream because she can sing EXTREMELY WELL, has marketable looks and her drive is stellar. If she came out in the 70s, that era would perfect. We(her fans) always joke that she came out in the wrong era, her sound especially is influenced by the 70s with a contemporary modern flava. She would hold her own then too. And would in the 80s because she might be the best vocalist, but she's very good at it and she's not the best dancer, but she's great at that and the 80s and 90s is the era of the video artist and since her image is marketable, she would thrive in that era also(if she came out at say, 22).

lets get real... beyonce isn't that amazing of a singer... and all she does is shake her behind and pop her coochie... thats not that amazing... her dance moves you can see in the club....

Like I said, beyonce had to start off with Destiny's child, because she would NOT have made it alone during the 90s.... and she knows it.... if she could have you would NOT even know about Kelly or Michelle...

Beyonce just is a ghetto booty shaking girl who is attention and fame hungry... Beyonce would be like a Jody Watley and would only make it in the urban industry.... if this were the 80s or 90s....

musicjunky318 said:

ThePopLover2 said:

You're not getting the point . Who is Beyonce's Rival?Rihanna?Lady Gaga? Notice how none of the have no where near as much talent as Janet in her 40's! Let alone her prime!

You said Every Beyonce's 3 albums have won a grammy? Janet's First 3 albums made HISTORY.

Control has the most AMA nominations.(11)

Rhythm Nation has the most Top 5 singles WHICH cause her to have won the most billboard awards in one night for female artist.

"Janet" was the first album to debut at 1 during the soundscan era.

Btw Janet has been out for 30yrs, Beyonce has only been out for 9 yrs. She went solo in 2003 right?

BEYONCE HAS 16 GRAMMYS. ONLY ALISON KRAUSS AND QUEEN 'RETHA HAVE MORE AMONG FEMALE ARTISTS. AND SHE'S ONLY 29.

BOB MARLEY, BUDDY HOLLY, THE DOORS AND MANY OTHER GREAT GROUPS/ARTISTS HAVE NEVER WON ONE GRAMMY IN THEIR LIFETIME SO WHAT'S YOUR POINT!?!

TotalAlisa said:

Curtwill1975 said:

That's not true. There is a lot of talent in this decade. There is just not a lot of artist who have Bey's skill set meaning, the ability to sing and dance extremely well.

Just like there were a lot of artists who could do what Janet did and trust me, labels tried to find them. If Bey was in the 60s(for example), she would be Berry Gordy's wet dream because she can sing EXTREMELY WELL, has marketable looks and her drive is stellar. If she came out in the 70s, that era would perfect. We(her fans) always joke that she came out in the wrong era, her sound especially is influenced by the 70s with a contemporary modern flava. She would hold her own then too. And would in the 80s because she might be the best vocalist, but she's very good at it and she's not the best dancer, but she's great at that and the 80s and 90s is the era of the video artist and since her image is marketable, she would thrive in that era also(if she came out at say, 22).

lets get real... beyonce isn't that amazing of a singer... and all she does is shake her behind and pop her coochie... thats not that amazing... her dance moves you can see in the club....

Like I said, beyonce had to start off with Destiny's child, because she would NOT have made it alone during the 90s.... and she knows it.... if she could have you would NOT even know about Kelly or Michelle...

Beyonce just is a ghetto booty shaking girl who is attention and fame hungry... Beyonce would be like a Jody Watley and would only make it in the urban industry.... if this were the 80s or 90s....

TotalAlisa said:

Curtwill1975 said:

That's not true. There is a lot of talent in this decade. There is just not a lot of artist who have Bey's skill set meaning, the ability to sing and dance extremely well.

Just like there were a lot of artists who could do what Janet did and trust me, labels tried to find them. If Bey was in the 60s(for example), she would be Berry Gordy's wet dream because she can sing EXTREMELY WELL, has marketable looks and her drive is stellar. If she came out in the 70s, that era would perfect. We(her fans) always joke that she came out in the wrong era, her sound especially is influenced by the 70s with a contemporary modern flava. She would hold her own then too. And would in the 80s because she might be the best vocalist, but she's very good at it and she's not the best dancer, but she's great at that and the 80s and 90s is the era of the video artist and since her image is marketable, she would thrive in that era also(if she came out at say, 22).

lets get real... beyonce isn't that amazing of a singer... and all she does is shake her behind and pop her coochie... thats not that amazing... her dance moves you can see in the club....

Like I said, beyonce had to start off with Destiny's child, because she would NOT have made it alone during the 90s.... and she knows it.... if she could have you would NOT even know about Kelly or Michelle...

Beyonce just is a ghetto booty shaking girl who is attention and fame hungry... Beyonce would be like a Jody Watley and would only make it in the urban industry.... if this were the 80s or 90s....

purplesweat said:

TotalAlisa said:

lets get real... beyonce isn't that amazing of a singer... and all she does is shake her behind and pop her coochie... thats not that amazing... her dance moves you can see in the club....

Like I said, beyonce had to start off with Destiny's child, because she would NOT have made it alone during the 90s.... and she knows it.... if she could have you would NOT even know about Kelly or Michelle...

Beyonce just is a ghetto booty shaking girl who is attention and fame hungry... Beyonce would be like a Jody Watley and would only make it in the urban industry.... if this were the 80s or 90s....

This is just plain ignorance. You probably just heard Video Phone once on the radio and judged all her vocal talent on that one shitty song. Go look at my "Tribute to Beyonce's Vocal Control" thread or look that up on youtube and tell me she's still all tits and ass.

actually, alisa already mentioned she used to be a beyonce fan and had her posters and everything

ThePopLover2 said:

Curtwill1975 said:

But I don't consider Rihanna and Gaga peers with Bey at all. Bey's peers are Brandy, Monica, Alicia(she came out in 1997), Mya and every female teen act who came out in the 90s and Bey, going back to her DC days, has been the most successful out of all the time and has been consistent with it. In fact, Toni Braxton made this very point: http://www.youtube.com/wa...urMgMOmo08 (listen to the beginning of the video, especially).

So you're not getting the point. No one is debating Janet's legacy, the point is that Bey has a legacy of her own and is for her generation what Janet and etc was for my generation. You assume that I am saying, Bey>>>Janet in terms of legacy. I don't say that, but that don't take away for what Bey has been to her generation. It's sad that people of my generation don't want to give artist who are doing their thing for their generation their due.

LMAO, I'm having so much fun here. Alright Lets get started. We Are comparing Janet and Beyonce NOT Janet and DC. Janet wasnt in a group. Beyonce Started As A Solo artist In 2003, SO, Her competitors are what I just Highlighted.Dont nobody care about those hand out grammys .

She doesnt have the Most period.Janet Has The most Billboard awards PERIOD. And those are pretty hard to get.Thirdly, Toni Braxton already said that She was inspired By Janet.

So the Debate is pretty void. Janet was an artist BEFORE Beyonce was in diapers.

[Edited 2/7/11 16:56pm]

[Edited 2/7/11 16:59pm]

[Edited 2/7/11 17:00pm]

The debate never started because you missed my point. My point as I said before wasn't Bey>>>Janet. My point was to show was in responding to this: ("Dangerous in love","B-day", and "I..am" aren't really what I would consider...Classic) with me saying that they are defining albums for her as Control, RN1812, VR and Janet are for Janet. Meaning that when people speak of the "Beyoncé legacy", they will speak of those albums in that light. BTW, I am not saying that DIL, B'day and IASF are on the same level as Janet's work quality wise. I am speaking in the context of her(Bey) impact on entertainment for her generation.

Since we acknowledge that Janet was an artist/entertainer before Bey was ever born, you can't even compare them musically and performing wise. You can prefer one over the other, but two different generations of entertainers.

SEANMAN said:

Curtwill1975 said:

Nope, it's 14:

1997–2001: Destiny's Child era

Main article: Destiny's Child

Destiny's Child star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

The group changed its name to Destiny's Child in 1993, based on a passage in the Book of Isaiah.^[22] Together, they performed in local events and, after four years on the road, the group was signed to Columbia Records in late 1997. That same year, Destiny's Child recorded its major label début song, "Killing Time", for the soundtrack to the 1997 film, Men in Black.^[22][24] The following year, the group released its self-titled debut album,^[23] scoring their first major hit "No, No, No". That album established the group as a viable act in the music industry, amassing moderate sales and winning the group three Soul Train Lady of Soul Awards for "Best R&B/Soul Single" for "No, No, No", "Best R&B/Soul Album of the Year" and "Best R&B/Soul or Rap New Artist".^[22] The group released their multi-platinum second album The Writing's on the Wall in 1999. The record features some of the group's most widely known songs such as "Bills, Bills, Bills", the group's first number-one single, "Jumpin' Jumpin'", and "Say My Name", which became their most-successful song at the time, and would remain one of their signature songs. "Say My Name" won the Best R&B Performance by a Duo or Group with Vocals and the Best R&B Song at the 2001 Grammy Awards.^[22]The Writing's on the Wall sold more than eight million copies.^[23]

^{http://en.wikipedia.org/w...é_Knowles}

That's about half of 30. And you're going to need to strengthen your argument because janet has been performing PROFESSIONALLY since 76(That's about 35 years).

Exactly. You've proven my point.

[Edited 2/7/11 16:42pm]

But that wasn't my point. My point is that Bey is getting there and even you said that she is on the path of getting there.

midiscover said:

Curtwill1975 said:

She only did that so that she wouldn't have to deal with deadlines(you should know that many times, labels force their artists to release work to get out of contracts with them because artists are usually contracted by the album), and not be pressure. Her dad was still an executive producer on B'day along with her, so it is not like that.

Her point really was that people tend to compare every black family that is entertainment to the Jackson story. You know, doing entertainment to get out of poverty. The stereotype of every black person who plays sports or does entertainment and is a pro at it. She could have articulated it better, but I got her point. If anything, it was comparing her dad(who had money) to Joe Jackson(who was working in a steel mill and had to support 8 children) and that could have been incidency except Joe was at one of Bey's concerts at the Wynn long after that statement by her. So I don't think he thought it was a big deal and Janet being mad at the statement was a rumor, just like supposedly Solange addressing that.

Either way nobody compares the Knowles to the Jacksons. The Jacksons is a family that has made an impact on music from the 60's all the way to the 10's. A family with talented artists, singers, songwriters and producers. The Knowles is just a family with a successful daughter and flopped clothing label.

Actually they do, compare the Knowles/Beyinces to the Jacksons as they do any black family that has some sort imprint on entertainment. You forget that Solange is a accomplished songwriter, producer in her own right and one day will take over her dad's label. I mean, even Bey's cousin who is her assistant has numerous songwriting credits on Bey's songs.

I don't compare the Jacksons to the Knowles/Beyinces but let's not downplay the Knowles/Beyinces either. The Jackson legacy speak for itself.

WaterInYourBath said:

Curtwill1975 said:

Whitney had the best instrument, but I think Ella, Aretha, and Babs would disagree with you in terms of vocals because they had more musicianship than Whitney and knew how to use their voice better. And I could name Sarah, Dinah, Billie and Nina also if I want to. But Whitney had the best instrument vocally though.

I can respect your perspective. Although, this is how I look at it: Could any of those women have performed Whitney's songs better than Whitney? I don't believe so. Especially those whose vocality was limited to a very particular style (specifically jazz artists like Ella and Billie). But on the contrary, Whitney in, let's say 1987, could and did cover Aretha, Diana, etc, and did indeed perform their songs at a more superlative level. So yeah, she did have the best vocal instrument, and has proved that immensely. Therefore, back to my point, all this "shitney" name-calling crap is suited for nothing else besides a toilet.

Well, as I said Whitney had the better vocal instrument but Aretha, and Ella especially are such great musicians that they would be able to arrange their vocals that put their own signature on anything they grace their voice too. They are better "interpreters" than Whitney is, though Whit is a great interpreter herself.

I do agree with your last statement, calling her that is juvenile or low.

TotalAlisa said:

Curtwill1975 said:

That's not true. There is a lot of talent in this decade. There is just not a lot of artist who have Bey's skill set meaning, the ability to sing and dance extremely well.

Just like there were a lot of artists who could do what Janet did and trust me, labels tried to find them. If Bey was in the 60s(for example), she would be Berry Gordy's wet dream because she can sing EXTREMELY WELL, has marketable looks and her drive is stellar. If she came out in the 70s, that era would perfect. We(her fans) always joke that she came out in the wrong era, her sound especially is influenced by the 70s with a contemporary modern flava. She would hold her own then too. And would in the 80s because she might be the best vocalist, but she's very good at it and she's not the best dancer, but she's great at that and the 80s and 90s is the era of the video artist and since her image is marketable, she would thrive in that era also(if she came out at say, 22).

lets get real... beyonce isn't that amazing of a singer... and all she does is shake her behind and pop her coochie... thats not that amazing... her dance moves you can see in the club....

Like I said, beyonce had to start off with Destiny's child, because she would NOT have made it alone during the 90s.... and she knows it.... if she could have you would NOT even know about Kelly or Michelle...

Beyonce just is a ghetto booty shaking girl who is attention and fame hungry... Beyonce would be like a Jody Watley and would only make it in the urban industry.... if this were the 80s or 90s....

She started with DC, yes but she was with them from when she was a kid. That's like saying that Michael Jackson needed the Jackson Five to be a star.You don't have to like her music, her performing style, her image but what I am saying is evident.

And secondly, if Beyonce would be like Jody Watley then why didn't Jody do what Beyoncé did and take it the level that Bey has?

Curtwill1975 said:

TotalAlisa said:

lets get real... beyonce isn't that amazing of a singer... and all she does is shake her behind and pop her coochie... thats not that amazing... her dance moves you can see in the club....

Like I said, beyonce had to start off with Destiny's child, because she would NOT have made it alone during the 90s.... and she knows it.... if she could have you would NOT even know about Kelly or Michelle...

Beyonce just is a ghetto booty shaking girl who is attention and fame hungry... Beyonce would be like a Jody Watley and would only make it in the urban industry.... if this were the 80s or 90s....

She started with DC, yes but she was with them from when she was a kid. That's like saying that Michael Jackson needed the Jackson Five to be a star.You don't have to like her music, her performing style, her image but what I am saying is evident.

And secondly, if Beyonce would be like Jody Watley then why didn't Jody do what Beyoncé did and take it the level that Bey has?

I remember some asshole on muchmusic saying after a Janet video that she's had a good career without needing her brothers to start out, I thought that was so rude! Both Beyonce and Michael were good with and without their group.

I wouldn't be surprised if Jody was an influence for her too, great artist.

Curtwill1975 said:

midiscover said:

Either way nobody compares the Knowles to the Jacksons. The Jacksons is a family that has made an impact on music from the 60's all the way to the 10's. A family with talented artists, singers, songwriters and producers. The Knowles is just a family with a successful daughter and flopped clothing label.

Actually they do, compare the Knowles/Beyinces to the Jacksons as they do any black family that has some sort imprint on entertainment. You forget that Solange is a accomplished songwriter, producer in her own right and one day will take over her dad's label. I mean, even Bey's cousin who is her assistant has numerous songwriting credits on Bey's songs.

I don't compare the Jacksons to the Knowles/Beyinces but let's not downplay the Knowles/Beyinces either. The Jackson legacy speak for itself.

Just stop The Knowles family doesn't have a legacy and Solange is a flop hence why she's just DJing. The only one that will have a legacy in that family is Beyonce. So no, they don't compare to the Jacksons. The end.

midiscover said:

Curtwill1975 said:

Actually they do, compare the Knowles/Beyinces to the Jacksons as they do any black family that has some sort imprint on entertainment. You forget that Solange is a accomplished songwriter, producer in her own right and one day will take over her dad's label. I mean, even Bey's cousin who is her assistant has numerous songwriting credits on Bey's songs.

I don't compare the Jacksons to the Knowles/Beyinces but let's not downplay the Knowles/Beyinces either. The Jackson legacy speak for itself.

Just stop The Knowles family doesn't have a legacy and Solange is a flop hence why she's just DJing. The only one that will have a legacy in that family is Beyonce. So no, they don't compare to the Jacksons. The end.

Never said that they did compared, what I said is a lot of times, the media compare them because of this: Her point really was that people tend to compare every black family that is entertainment to the Jackson story. You know, doing entertainment to get out of poverty. The stereotype of every black person who plays sports or does entertainment and is a pro at it.

Everyone knows that people love to compare Bey's dad with Joe Jackson in a degatory way and a lot of times, the media loves to sensationalize the Jackson story also. That's my point.

alphastreet said:

Curtwill1975 said:

She started with DC, yes but she was with them from when she was a kid. That's like saying that Michael Jackson needed the Jackson Five to be a star.You don't have to like her music, her performing style, her image but what I am saying is evident.

And secondly, if Beyonce would be like Jody Watley then why didn't Jody do what Beyoncé did and take it the level that Bey has?

I remember some asshole on muchmusic saying after a Janet video that she's had a good career without needing her brothers to start out, I thought that was so rude! Both Beyonce and Michael were good with and without their group.

I wouldn't be surprised if Jody was an influence for her too, great artist.

That's a case of Jackson haters trying to have their cake and eat it too because one of the things that people tend to say of JJ is that if she wasn't a Jackson, she wouldn't be famous which is ridiculous because it was when she broke from her dad is when she became Janet. But that's what haters do. Nothing is amount of logic is going to get them see their foolishness.

And as for Jody, that wouldn't surprise me either. I actually liked Jody. Looking for a new love is my fave song from her. Though I have always seen Bey closer to Vanessa Williams(allmusic has VW as a musical influence of Bey's) than Jody, very versatile(can ride a beat vocally and try on different genres) though VW is not a "wailer" and growler like Bey is. But that's the closet comparision that I can truly think of for Beyonce and an artist from the 80s.

Curtwill1975 said:

alphastreet said:

I remember some asshole on muchmusic saying after a Janet video that she's had a good career without needing her brothers to start out, I thought that was so rude! Both Beyonce and Michael were good with and without their group.

I wouldn't be surprised if Jody was an influence for her too, great artist.

That's a case of Jackson haters trying to have their cake and eat it too because one of the things that people tend to say of JJ is that if she wasn't a Jackson, she wouldn't be famous which is ridiculous because it was when she broke from her dad is when she became Janet. But that's what haters do. Nothing is amount of logic is going to get them see their foolishness.

And as for Jody, that wouldn't surprise me either. I actually liked Jody. Looking for a new love is my fave song from her. Though I have always seen Bey closer to Vanessa Williams(allmusic has VW as a musical influence of Bey's) than Jody, very versatile(can ride a beat vocally and try on different genres) though VW is not a "wailer" and growler like Bey is. But that's the closet comparision that I can truly think of for Beyonce and an artist from the 80s.

Oh come on, if she wasn't a Jackson, with that weak voice of hers, she would not have been presented to Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. Her name got her in touch with the best producers in the land. Her success is a matter of name, luck, determination, good dancing skills and excellent producers.

[Edited 2/8/11 10:44am]

wonder505 said:

Curtwill1975 said:

That's a case of Jackson haters trying to have their cake and eat it too because one of the things that people tend to say of JJ is that if she wasn't a Jackson, she wouldn't be famous which is ridiculous because it was when she broke from her dad is when she became Janet. But that's what haters do. Nothing is amount of logic is going to get them see their foolishness.

And as for Jody, that wouldn't surprise me either. I actually liked Jody. Looking for a new love is my fave song from her. Though I have always seen Bey closer to Vanessa Williams(allmusic has VW as a musical influence of Bey's) than Jody, very versatile(can ride a beat vocally and try on different genres) though VW is not a "wailer" and growler like Bey is. But that's the closet comparision that I can truly think of for Beyonce and an artist from the 80s.

Oh come on, if she wasn't a Jackson, with that weak voice of hers, she would not have been presented to Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. Her name got her in touch with the best producers in the land. Her success is a matter of name, luck, determination, good dancing skills and excellent producers.

[Edited 2/8/11 10:44am]

You know that's a bunch of bull too, she worked with very hot producers of the early 80's like Rene and Angela, and those first two albums were nice, but so many jacksons were coming out with albums then, plus we had Thriller, so the timing was just off.

Curtwill1975 said:

midiscover said:

Either way nobody compares the Knowles to the Jacksons. The Jacksons is a family that has made an impact on music from the 60's all the way to the 10's. A family with talented artists, singers, songwriters and producers. The Knowles is just a family with a successful daughter and flopped clothing label.

Actually they do, compare the Knowles/Beyinces to the Jacksons as they do any black family that has some sort imprint on entertainment. You forget that Solange is a accomplished songwriter, producer in her own right and one day will take over her dad's label. I mean, even Bey's cousin who is her assistant has numerous songwriting credits on Bey's songs.

I don't compare the Jacksons to the Knowles/Beyinces but let's not downplay the Knowles/Beyinces either. The Jackson legacy speak for itself.

And what imprint has the knowles family left?

Curtwill1975 said:

ThePopLover2 said:

LMAO, I'm having so much fun here. Alright Lets get started. We Are comparing Janet and Beyonce NOT Janet and DC. Janet wasnt in a group. Beyonce Started As A Solo artist In 2003, SO, Her competitors are what I just Highlighted.Dont nobody care about those hand out grammys .

She doesnt have the Most period.Janet Has The most Billboard awards PERIOD. And those are pretty hard to get.Thirdly, Toni Braxton already said that She was inspired By Janet.

So the Debate is pretty void. Janet was an artist BEFORE Beyonce was in diapers.

[Edited 2/7/11 16:56pm]

[Edited 2/7/11 16:59pm]

[Edited 2/7/11 17:00pm]

The debate never started because you missed my point. My point as I said before wasn't Bey>>>Janet. My point was to show was in responding to this: ("Dangerous in love","B-day", and "I..am" aren't really what I would consider...Classic) with me saying that they are defining albums for her as Control, RN1812, VR and Janet are for Janet. Meaning that when people speak of the "Beyoncé legacy", they will speak of those albums in that light. BTW, I am not saying that DIL, B'day and IASF are on the same level as Janet's work quality wise. I am speaking in the context of her(Bey) impact on entertainment for her generation.

Since we acknowledge that Janet was an artist/entertainer before Bey was ever born, other, but two different generations of entertainers.you can't even compare them musically and performing wise. You can prefer one over the

You sure can't, because one has something over the other. And that is Talent. Janet was even taking control of her own career before Bey did! You simply stated that Beyonce is halfway through Janet's career and I simply replied "Ehh, Negative". And the Albums I stated broke GROUND for other artist. What did DIL,B-day, and I...am do?

wonder505 said:

Curtwill1975 said:

That's a case of Jackson haters trying to have their cake and eat it too because one of the things that people tend to say of JJ is that if she wasn't a Jackson, she wouldn't be famous which is ridiculous because it was when she broke from her dad is when she became Janet. But that's what haters do. Nothing is amount of logic is going to get them see their foolishness.

And as for Jody, that wouldn't surprise me either. I actually liked Jody. Looking for a new love is my fave song from her. Though I have always seen Bey closer to Vanessa Williams(allmusic has VW as a musical influence of Bey's) than Jody, very versatile(can ride a beat vocally and try on different genres) though VW is not a "wailer" and growler like Bey is. But that's the closet comparision that I can truly think of for Beyonce and an artist from the 80s.

Oh come on, if she wasn't a Jackson, with that weak voice of hers, she would not have been presented to Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. Her name got her in touch with the best producers in the land. Her success is a matter of name, luck, determination, good dancing skills and excellent producers.

[Edited 2/8/11 10:44am]

Then Maybe we should talk about everyone else's career in the Jackson Family, besides MJ and Janet .

ThePopLover2 said:

wonder505 said:

Oh come on, if she wasn't a Jackson, with that weak voice of hers, she would not have been presented to Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. Her name got her in touch with the best producers in the land. Her success is a matter of name, luck, determination, good dancing skills and excellent producers.

[Edited 2/8/11 10:44am]

Then Maybe we should talk about everyone else's career in the Jackson Family, besides MJ and Janet .

like i said great dancing skills and excellent producers.

wonder505 said:

Curtwill1975 said:

That's a case of Jackson haters trying to have their cake and eat it too because one of the things that people tend to say of JJ is that if she wasn't a Jackson, she wouldn't be famous which is ridiculous because it was when she broke from her dad is when she became Janet. But that's what haters do. Nothing is amount of logic is going to get them see their foolishness.

And as for Jody, that wouldn't surprise me either. I actually liked Jody. Looking for a new love is my fave song from her. Though I have always seen Bey closer to Vanessa Williams(allmusic has VW as a musical influence of Bey's) than Jody, very versatile(can ride a beat vocally and try on different genres) though VW is not a "wailer" and growler like Bey is. But that's the closet comparision that I can truly think of for Beyonce and an artist from the 80s.

Oh come on, if she wasn't a Jackson, with that weak voice of hers, she would not have been presented to Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. Her name got her in touch with the best producers in the land. Her success is a matter of name, luck, determination, good dancing skills and excellent producers.

[Edited 2/8/11 10:44am]

Oh please you need to take that nonsense elsewhere. If she was just "lucky" or getting somewhere on "name" alone, then she wouldn't be the icon that she is today. She has that "it" factor. Jimmy Jam said himself that Janet gambled on all of them. He said that he and Terry weren't exactly Quincy Jones when they produced Control, and that it was a gamble. It paid off. Janet is no puppet. She's written lots of songs, some of them her most famous. So, let me rephrase your last sentence: "Her success is a matter of talent, determination, excellent dancing skills, and collaborating with hungry up-and-coming producers and chorographers who wanted it as much as she did."

[Edited 2/8/11 12:23pm]

SEANMAN said:

wonder505 said:

Oh come on, if she wasn't a Jackson, with that weak voice of hers, she would not have been presented to Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. Her name got her in touch with the best producers in the land. Her success is a matter of name, luck, determination, good dancing skills and excellent producers.

[Edited 2/8/11 10:44am]

Oh please you need to take that nonsense elsewhere. If she was just "lucky" or getting somewhere on "name" alone, then she wouldn't be the icon that she is today. She has that "it" factor. Jimmy Jam said himself that Janet gambled on all of them. He said that he and Terry weren't exactly Quincy Jones when they produced Control, and that it was a gamble. It paid off. Janet is no puppet. She's written lots of songs, some of them her most famous. So, let me rephrase your last sentence: "Her success is a matter of talent, determination, excellent dancing skills, and collaborating with hungry up-and-coming producers and chorographers who wanted it as much as she did."

[Edited 2/8/11 12:23pm]

Stop being a drama queen. that is my opinion. Janet's Jackson's success was based on a number of factors I listed. I don't believe she's a great singer and I think her song writing ability wasmore hype and had more to do with the genius of JJ and TL. She even admitted to taking credit for songs she never wrote and she did not write one song for her last album. Her name, good dancing skills and the creativeness of her producers is what made her. If you feel that if she was not a Jackson the results would be the same (though I highly doubt) then its your opinion.

wonder505 said:

SEANMAN said:

Oh please you need to take that nonsense elsewhere. If she was just "lucky" or getting somewhere on "name" alone, then she wouldn't be the icon that she is today. She has that "it" factor. Jimmy Jam said himself that Janet gambled on all of them. He said that he and Terry weren't exactly Quincy Jones when they produced Control, and that it was a gamble. It paid off. Janet is no puppet. She's written lots of songs, some of them her most famous. So, let me rephrase your last sentence: "Her success is a matter of talent, determination, excellent dancing skills, and collaborating with hungry up-and-coming producers and chorographers who wanted it as much as she did."

[Edited 2/8/11 12:23pm]

Stop being a drama queen. that is my opinion. Janet's Jackson's success was based on a number of factors I listed. I don't believe she's a great singer and I think her song writing ability wasmore hype and had more to do with the genius of JJ and TL. She even admitted to taking credit for songs she never wrote and she did not write one song for her last album. Her name, good dancing skills and the creativeness of her producers is what made her. If you feel that if she was not a Jackson the results would be the same (though I highly doubt) then its your opinion.

She's never claimed to be a singer of Whitney-esque proportions. She does well with and is versatile with the range that she does have.

Fact: Janet wrote the lyrics to and came up with the melody of That's The Way Love Goes, her biggest #1

Fact: Janet solely wrote Black Cat, another #1, and co-produced it with Jellybean Johnson

Fact: Janet came up with the melody for and co-wrote If

Fact: Janet writes often, and has penned the lyrics to several songs on her CDs

Fact: Janet wrote the lyrics to "All For You", her 2nd biggest #1

It's not hype. And, her last album was a rushed project financed by a label that, at the end of the day, didn't have her best interest at heart. The reason there are usually such large gaps in between her albums is that SHE'S the one pouring her life experiences into the lyrics and themes.

SEANMAN said:

wonder505 said:

Stop being a drama queen. that is my opinion. Janet's Jackson's success was based on a number of factors I listed. I don't believe she's a great singer and I think her song writing ability wasmore hype and had more to do with the genius of JJ and TL. She even admitted to taking credit for songs she never wrote and she did not write one song for her last album. Her name, good dancing skills and the creativeness of her producers is what made her. If you feel that if she was not a Jackson the results would be the same (though I highly doubt) then its your opinion.

She's never claimed to be a singer of Whitney-esque proportions. She does well with and is versatile with the range that she does have. your opinion. i don't think she's a great singer.

Fact: Janet wrote the lyrics to and came up with the melody of That's The Way Love Goes, her biggest #1 I highly doubt she penned that alone, (especially with Rene around...sorry) plus that song/melody was heavily sampled. I don't know the the original but I've heard that same groove in one or two hip hop songs.

Fact: Janet solely wrote Black Cat, another #1, and co-produced it with Jellybean Johnson maybe, the only song that i notice she's solely credited for, and I do love that song.

Fact: Janet came up with the melody for and co-wrote If doesn't mean its true.

Fact: Janet writes often, and has penned the lyrics to several songs on her CDs more hype.

Fact: Janet wrote the lyrics to "All For You", her 2nd biggest #1 i doubt it.

It's not hype. And, her last album was a rushed project financed by a label that, at the end of the day, didn't have her best interest at heart. The reason there are usually such large gaps in between her albums is that SHE'S the one pouring her life experiences into the lyrics and themes. Great excuse.

let's agree to disagree.

[Edited 2/8/11 12:53pm]

wonder505 said:

SEANMAN said:

She's never claimed to be a singer of Whitney-esque proportions. She does well with and is versatile with the range that she does have. your opinion. i don't think she's a great singer.

Fact: Janet wrote the lyrics to and came up with the melody of That's The Way Love Goes, her biggest #1 I highly doubt she penned that alone, (especially with Rene around...sorry) plus that song/melody was heavily sampled. I don't know the the original but I've heard that same groove in one or two hip hop songs.

Fact: Janet solely wrote Black Cat, another #1, and co-produced it with Jellybean Johnson maybe, the only song that i notice she's solely credited for, and I do love that song.

Fact: Janet came up with the melody for and co-wrote If doesn't mean its true.

Fact: Janet writes often, and has penned the lyrics to several songs on her CDs more hype.

Fact: Janet wrote the lyrics to "All For You", her 2nd biggest #1 i doubt it.

It's not hype. And, her last album was a rushed project financed by a label that, at the end of the day, didn't have her best interest at heart. The reason there are usually such large gaps in between her albums is that SHE'S the one pouring her life experiences into the lyrics and themes. Great excuse.

let's agree to disagree.

[Edited 2/8/11 12:53pm]

Not hype, you're wrong, get bent

SEANMAN said:

wonder505 said:

let's agree to disagree.

[Edited 2/8/11 12:53pm]

Not hype, you're wrong, get bent

You forgot "IMO"

either way, whatever the reasons, we got good music out of it.

[Edited 2/8/11 13:08pm]

ThePopLover2 said:

Curtwill1975 said:

The debate never started because you missed my point. My point as I said before wasn't Bey>>>Janet. My point was to show was in responding to this: ("Dangerous in love","B-day", and "I..am" aren't really what I would consider...Classic) with me saying that they are defining albums for her as Control, RN1812, VR and Janet are for Janet. Meaning that when people speak of the "Beyoncé legacy", they will speak of those albums in that light. BTW, I am not saying that DIL, B'day and IASF are on the same level as Janet's work quality wise. I am speaking in the context of her(Bey) impact on entertainment for her generation.

Since we acknowledge that Janet was an artist/entertainer before Bey was ever born, other, but two different generations of entertainers.you can't even compare them musically and performing wise. You can prefer one over the

You sure can't, because one has something over the other. And that is Talent. Janet was even taking control of her own career before Bey did! You simply stated that Beyonce is halfway through Janet's career and I simply replied "Ehh, Negative". And the Albums I stated broke GROUND for other artist. What did DIL,B-day, and I...am do?

Not exactly. You can argue for Janet being the better all-around performer(because she's not a bad vocalist, actually) but Bey is the better vocalist and the more acclaimed one too. There is a reason why the woman has 8 vocal performance song Grammys to her name and yes, I know you are going to re-interate that she bought them but that's crazy thinking especially considering the one award she could buy, the Walk of Fame, she don't have. She is arguably the best female vocal arranger of her generation(age group 20-30) and her songs are built off of them no matter who the producer is. The only other one you can argue from this aspect especially in Contemporary R&B is Brandy(who is one record for giving Bey her due for vocal arrangments and vice-versa from Bey).

Also, as for your last question, the ground that she is broke is this: Musically, Beyonce’s best work takes the Hip Hop-meets-60’s soul sound pioneered by Lauryn Hill, and makes it danceable, club-ready, and pop-oriented. Listen to “Crazy in Love,” Beyonce’s crowning achievement musically, and you hear many of the same retro-influenced elements present in Hill’s “Do Wop (That Thing);” particularly the raw, live instrumentation, and those insistent, Motown-inspired horns that anchor the song. And while Dangerously in Love may be Beyonce’s most impactful album, B-Day is unquestionably her best, as she explores this interesting balancing act over the course of the entire record. Live instrumentation was employed for most of the songs on B-Day, as well as some sampling from 60’s and 70’s soul artists like Curtis Mayfield and Betty Wright, and they blend perfectly with a contemporary, fiery hip hop production style that gives the album a rich and musical, yet radio-ready personality; Ike and Tina-meets-Swizz Beats, if you will. Recorded in only two weeks, and comprised of just ten songs, the album’s brevity and clear vision give it a cohesiveness rarely found in most mainstream, pop albums.

http://www.blackyouthproj...e-beyonce/

It's a sound that I affectionally call...Pop & Soul. In fact, read the whole blog entry that I posted in here[I didn't write it, someone else did and express what I am saying better than I ever could], it's very good stuff and shows the impact she has had on entertainment, music and the industry in general. In fact, look at Allmusic.com...I will post from them in fact: http://www.allmusic.com/a...ce-p349078 and http://www.allmusic.com/a...ld-p278369

Under the influences, if you count, you will 39 various artists influenced(followed) by her going back to her DC days. Not to mention, there are others(like Amerie, Adele, Jennifer Hudson, Maroon Five, Miley Cyrus, and Katherine McPhee for example). Oh yeah, even Toby Gad talked about how he grew up with Bey's music and that she(as well as Brandy) are influential to him also: http://www.youtube.com/wa...MQW9uMB_14

And yes, I know Janet is under both lists of who Bey is influenced by musically. Again, you have this impression that I am saying Bey>>>Janet. What I am saying, and been saying, time and again, about Bey's impact on music with her work. To deny that is to akin to a Beyoncé stan calling Janet, Trannet and ignoring her work because they are focus on stanwars rather than being objective about each artists/entertainers work. And I go on the fact that Bey, since 1997 has had a top 5 song on the BB 100 charts or that she is the only artist who has a #1 song for 10 consecutive weeks on that same chart as part of a group and as a solo artist, and that she has most weeks at #1 on that chart for a female artist last decade as well as being second all-time for a female(behind Mariah) and then having the most Grammy nominations for a female artist also. But those things won't convince you of her impact on music because your focus is to debate Janet's greatness over Bey's. You are doing the very thing that Jermaine Dupri did when he made that swipe at Bey.

One thing I agree with Alisa, if Janet never sold another record, it won't matter because her legacy is secure and I feel the same way about Beyoncé believe it or not.