Says the person that bum-rushed into this thread because they're backed into a corner in another thread...

Free2BMe said:

trueiopian said:

Someone's mad...

I know I'm mad. Thank you for clocking my tea.

Fixed.

Free2BMe said:

Beyonce IS an icon. That doesn't take away from the fact that Janet has had a 30-plus year old career. Beyonce has worked her ass off to get where she is today. No one has given her a pass. She deserves every ounce of success that she has. It is pathetic that you Janet fans can't accept that Beyonce is very successful and is already an icon at this stage of her career. Bey is not only a great singer, she is a wonderful dancer and her concerts are top-notch. I would put her songwriting in the same class as Janet and you can take that any way you want it.

LOL at Beyonce being an icon, wonderful dancer and songwriter (according to you ripping crass lyrics about being a 'diva' and 'single lady' from other writers makes her a songwriter). You're on a roll, bud

[Edited 2/3/11 2:20am]

Free2BMe said:

SEANMAN said:

Oh please, Beyonce had better pray that she can have a 30-plus year old career. Janet is an icon. Beyonce is a pop idol still in training.

Beyonce IS an icon. That doesn't take away from the fact that Janet has had a 30-plus year old career. Beyonce has worked her ass off to get where she is today. No one has given her a pass. She deserves every ounce of success that she has. It is pathetic that you Janet fans can't accept that Beyonce is very successful and is already an icon at this stage of her career. Bey is not only a great singer, she is a wonderful dancer and her concerts are top-notch. I would put her songwriting in the same class as Janet and you can take that any way you want it.

I'm a huge janet fan, and I believe that out of today's artists, Beyonce is the most talented entertainer and she has earned her iconic status. I was agreeing with you until the last sentence. She has songwriting skills and they would talk about them during the DC-3 days, but when I started hearing about her just changing a word or two or taking others' songs and claiming them as her own, I could not give her sole credit for them. Not saying she doesn't have it, but I need to see a little more to be proven wrong. Whenever I think Beyonce has done it all, she comes back with another good song or another brilliant tour, so I'm hoping that will happen with the new album

alphastreet said:

Free2BMe said:

Beyonce IS an icon. That doesn't take away from the fact that Janet has had a 30-plus year old career. Beyonce has worked her ass off to get where she is today. No one has given her a pass. She deserves every ounce of success that she has. It is pathetic that you Janet fans can't accept that Beyonce is very successful and is already an icon at this stage of her career. Bey is not only a great singer, she is a wonderful dancer and her concerts are top-notch. I would put her songwriting in the same class as Janet and you can take that any way you want it.

I'm a huge janet fan, and I believe that out of today's artists, Beyonce is the most talented entertainer and she has earned her iconic status. I was agreeing with you until the last sentence. She has songwriting skills and they would talk about them during the DC-3 days, but when I started hearing about her just changing a word or two or taking others' songs and claiming them as her own, I could not give her sole credit for them. Not saying she doesn't have it, but I need to see a little more to be proven wrong. Whenever I think Beyonce has done it all, she comes back with another good song or another brilliant tour, so I'm hoping that will happen with the new album

I mentioned Beyonce and Janet having about the same songwriting skills because Janet gets credit for songs that she didn't write, like the Control album. Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis were responsible for that entire album-lyrics and music-yet Janet gets credit. She also gets credit for songs where she changed one or two lyrics. Beyonce does the same thing. That is the very reason that I put them into the same category for "songwriting".

Free2BMe said:

I mentioned Beyonce and Janet having about the same songwriting skills because Janet gets credit for songs that she didn't write, like the Control album. Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis were responsible for that entire album-lyrics and music-yet Janet gets credit. She also gets credit for songs where she changed one or two lyrics. Beyonce does the same thing. That is the very reason that I put them into the same category for "songwriting".

That's not true. The Control album had songs that were completed production wise. Janet did write and even had hand in instrumentation on the album. The lyrical content is based off Janet's life. Also Janet has NEVER been credited for songs where she changes up two words. She has songs where she's not credited at all though she had a hand in them. Jimmy Jam has stated this. Janet comes up with the melody and lyrical content of her songs and Jimmy and Terry helped her compose them. You can’t compare this to Beyonce blatantly ripping from upcoming artists and producers. BTW, none of Janet's songs are shopped. All of her songs are specifically created by/for her.

You're truly misinformed and trying way too hard.

[Edited 2/3/11 3:06am]

trueiopian said:

Free2BMe said:

I mentioned Beyonce and Janet having about the same songwriting skills because Janet gets credit for songs that she didn't write, like the Control album. Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis were responsible for that entire album-lyrics and music-yet Janet gets credit. She also gets credit for songs where she changed one or two lyrics. Beyonce does the same thing. That is the very reason that I put them into the same category for "songwriting".

That's not true. The Control album had songs that were completed production wise. Janet did write and even had hand in instrumentation on the album. The lyrical content is based off Janet's life. Also Janet has NEVER been credited for songs where she changes up two words. She has songs where she's not credited at all though she had a hand in them. Jimmy Jam has stated this. Janet comes up with the melody and lyrical content of her songs and Jimmy and Terry helped her compose them. You can’t compare this to Beyonce blatantly ripping from upcoming artists and producers. BTW, none of Janet's songs are shopped. All of her songs are specifically created by/for her.

You're truly misinformed and trying way too hard.

"Little One", why are you following me around from thread-to-thread and post-to-post? You are correct when you say that the lyrical content from the Control album is based on Janet's life. You are NOT correct when you say that she write or had a hand in the instrumentation of songs on that album. Jimmy and Terry did the lyrics and music on that album. I bought the Control album piano/vocal book years ago and Janet was not credited with one lyric or melody from that album. Stop trying so hard. You are going to trip on yourself.

[Edited 2/3/11 3:06am]

^ You both are right regarding Control. The reason Janet wasn't credited though she "wrote" them was because Janet told Jimmy & Terry about her life, and they took those stories and made songs around them. However there are in depth interviews about the creative process between Janet, Jimmy and Terry ever since with the following albums and she was involved. She would talk about working on songs for the Janet album during interviews and even during All For You if Jimmy had a track idea and she'd go home to write the melody and lyrics and they come back to record if all sounds well.

I still don't agree with the Beyonce comparison, and if Janet did that with songs, I doubt it was often.

As for Janet accepting others songs, she was offered songs that ended up going to other artists eg. Heaven Can Wait-MJ, Slave 4 U and Boys , etc.

Free2BMe said:

trueiopian said:

That's not true. The Control album had songs that were completed production wise. Janet did write and even had hand in instrumentation on the album. The lyrical content is based off Janet's life. Also Janet has NEVER been credited for songs where she changes up two words. She has songs where she's not credited at all though she had a hand in them. Jimmy Jam has stated this. Janet comes up with the melody and lyrical content of her songs and Jimmy and Terry helped her compose them. You can’t compare this to Beyonce blatantly ripping from upcoming artists and producers. BTW, none of Janet's songs are shopped. All of her songs are specifically created by/for her.

You're truly misinformed and trying way too hard.

"Little One", why are you following me around from thread-to-thread and post-to-post? You are correct when you say that the lyrical content from the Control album is based on Janet's life. You are NOT correct when you say that she write or had a hand in the instrumentation of songs on that album. Jimmy and Terry did the lyrics and music on that album. I bought the Control album piano/vocal book years ago and Janet was not credited with one lyric or melody from that album. Stop trying so hard. You are going to trip on yourself.

[Edited 2/3/11 3:06am]

Free2BMe, you are highly misinformed. Janet played keys on her very first #1, "When I Think of You". "Control" was a highly collaborative effort between her, Jimmy and Terry. The RN album was basically her concept. The black and white, the social commentary, etc. She wrote ALL of the lyrics for her biggest #1, "That's The Way Love Goes", and created the melody for it. She also created the melody for "If", and in one interview she specified saying that she wanted the melody to have an "Indian chant" feel to it. She wrote the lyrics to "All For You". She has a hand in writing everything. There are plenty of songs on Janet's records where she was the sole scribe, and either JJ and TL produced the music, or collaborated with her to do so. Beyonce, while VERY talented, has a long way to go to catch up to Janet, sorry. As I said before, Janet has unmatched records that are solid. Some of Janet's records are stand-alone, in that no other artist in history can lay claim to them but her. Beyonce may not be a Janet clone like some of the other younger female artists of today, but you can best believe that she has deriven inspiration from her. That is why she name-dropped Janet along with several other iconic female singers during one of her performances a few short years ago. That is why, on the red carpet right before the 2009 AMAs, she spoke on how Janet has influenced her. That is why she used a portion of "What Have You Done for Me Lately" in the opening of her "I Am..." tour. That is why, when Destiny's Child performed at Janet's MTV ICON show, Beyonce spoke on a dance group she used to perform in as a child, specifically saying Janet taught her her moves. That is why, during live performances of "Ring the Alarm", you can clearly see a "Rhythm Nation" influence in the choreography.

And you said that one reason Janet and Beyonce shouldn't be compared is because Janet uses sex to sell her records. What, and Beyonce doesn't? I don't know what you are watching, but it's evident that B can hardly perform a song or in a video fully dressed. It took Janet 9 long years to finally reveal her midfriff when she first hit the scene. You also said that B worked her ass off to get where she is, which is true, but don't forget that Janet did so as well. She had a famous last name, but don't you think it took work to get to the top and become a star? People were checking for her to fall on her face, or not escape the huge shadow cast by MJ, but she did just that and more. When people are still referencing Beyonce in 20 years and calling her a pop music icon, then she will be able to be in the same league as Janet.

[Edited 2/3/11 5:14am]

SEANMAN said:

Free2BMe said:

Free2BMe, you are highly misinformed. Janet played keys on her very first #1, "When I Think of You". "Control" was a highly collaborative effort between her, Jimmy and Terry. The RN album was basically her concept. The black and white, the social commentary, etc. She wrote ALL of the lyrics for her biggest #1, "That's The Way Love Goes", and created the melody for it. She also created the melody for "If", and in one interview she specified saying that she wanted the melody to have an "Indian chant" feel to it. She wrote the lyrics to "All For You". She has a hand in writing everything. There are plenty of songs on Janet's records where she was the sole scribe, and either JJ and TL produced the music, or collaborated with her to do so. Beyonce, while VERY talented, has a long way to go to catch up to Janet, sorry. As I said before, Janet has unmatched records that are solid. Some of Janet's records are stand-alone, in that no other artist in history can lay claim to them but her. Beyonce may not be a Janet clone like some of the other younger female artists of today, but you can best believe that she has deriven inspiration from her. That is why she name-dropped Janet along with several other iconic female singers during one of her performances a few short years ago. That is why, on the red carpet right before the 2009 AMAs, she spoke on how Janet has influenced her. That is why she used a portion of "What Have You Done for Me Lately" in the opening of her "I Am..." tour. That is why, when Destiny's Child performed at Janet's MTV ICON show, Beyonce spoke on a dance group she used to perform in as a child, specifically saying Janet taught her her moves. That is why, during live performances of "Ring the Alarm", you can clearly see a "Rhythm Nation" influence in the choreography.

And you said that one reason Janet and Beyonce shouldn't be compared is because Janet uses sex to sell her records. What, and Beyonce doesn't? I don't know what you are watching, but it's evident that B can hardly perform a song or in a video fully dressed. It took Janet 9 long years to finally reveal her midfriff when she first hit the scene. You also said that B worked her ass off to get where she is, which is true, but don't forget that Janet did so as well. She had a famous last name, but don't you think it took work to get to the top and become a star? People were checking for her to fall on her face, or not escape the huge shadow cast by MJ, but she did just that and more. When people are still referencing Beyonce in 20 years and calling her a pop music icon, then she will be able to be in the same league as Janet.

[Edited 2/3/11 5:14am]

I was like you about Beyonce, but she's in been in the game for 14 years now, let's see what plays out this decade before making an assessment like that. I thought she would fade too with her first album cause it was so different from her group work, but she's still here and improved IMO since then.

I knew that about Janet coming up with those songs that way, but it's good to read it again

[Edited 2/3/11 5:26am]

alphastreet said:

I was like you about Beyonce, but she's in been in the game for 14 years now, let's see what plays out this decade before making an assessment like that. I thought she would fade too with her first album cause it was so different from her group work, but she's still here and improved IMO since then.

I knew that about Janet coming up with those songs that way, but it's good to read it again

Not saying that Beyonce doesn't have a chance, but Destiny's Child exploded in 1999. That was twelve years ago. She still has another couple of decades to go before she can say she's been in the biz as long as Janet has today. If she keeps going the way she's going, she does stand a chance, but I just had to put Free2BMe in check.

SEANMAN said:

alphastreet said:

I was like you about Beyonce, but she's in been in the game for 14 years now, let's see what plays out this decade before making an assessment like that. I thought she would fade too with her first album cause it was so different from her group work, but she's still here and improved IMO since then.

I knew that about Janet coming up with those songs that way, but it's good to read it again

Not saying that Beyonce doesn't have a chance, but Destiny's Child exploded in 1999. That was twelve years ago. She still has another couple of decades to go before she can say she's been in the biz as long as Janet has today. If she keeps going the way she's going, she does stand a chance, but I just had to put Free2BMe in check.

well in all fairness, Janet was being called a legend too during the top of her game in a short period...and Beyonce, though with lower sales numbers due to the industry changing, in all fairness has 3 hit albums in a row like Janet did with Control, RN, Janet being her commercial peak, though she had more hits than that for sometime and kept putting out IMO good music.

Free2BMe said:

"Little One", why are you following me around from thread-to-thread and post-to-post? You are correct when you say that the lyrical content from the Control album is based on Janet's life. You are NOT correct when you say that she write or had a hand in the instrumentation of songs on that album. Jimmy and Terry did the lyrics and music on that album. I bought the Control album piano/vocal book years ago and Janet was not credited with one lyric or melody from that album. Stop trying so hard. You are going to trip on yourself.

Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis states otherwise and the credits on the album state otherwise, as well. Keep reaching. You have nothing to back up all your crazy claims. Too funny!

IMO, Beyonce simply found a formula that works, and has been pimping it out to the fullest ever since. Just like Gaga and every other artist that is out today. Yes, she can sing and dance better than most of them, but I just don't see any growth. The looks may change, but the music stays the same.

Janet gets my respect because she had the balls to change it up, both physically and musically, and she's not afraid of putting a relevant message in a song. I doubt Beyonce will ever make a "Rhythm Nation" or "The Knowledge". She's too busy p-poppin' right now.

(BTW, Janet would shred her in a dance competition...even in her forties.)

[Edited 2/3/11 9:18am]

alphastreet said:

SEANMAN said:

Not saying that Beyonce doesn't have a chance, but Destiny's Child exploded in 1999. That was twelve years ago. She still has another couple of decades to go before she can say she's been in the biz as long as Janet has today. If she keeps going the way she's going, she does stand a chance, but I just had to put Free2BMe in check.

well in all fairness, Janet was being called a legend too during the top of her game in a short period...and Beyonce, though with lower sales numbers due to the industry changing, in all fairness has 3 hit albums in a row like Janet did with Control, RN, Janet being her commercial peak, though she had more hits than that for sometime and kept putting out IMO good music.

I guess the difference is Janet had HUGE gaps in between her album

Control-Rhythm Nation(3 year gap) Rhythm Nation-Janet(4 year gap)

Another difference is Rhythm Nation1814,Control, and Janet are consired "Classic".

"Dangerous in love","B-day", and "I..am" aren't really what I would consider...Classic

musicjunky318 said:

seeingvoices12 said:

I disagree with how you look at things...shitney and yawnce are no where near mariah....child

[img:$uid]http://i42.tinypic.com/2qcqvs9.gif[/img:$uid]

Go play one of flopney shitears lifeless albums...

I agree that Janet took ways more risks, and Beyonce keeps the same formula, but she's very talented. I actually think the first disc of I Am is classic and mature, and something I wanted her to do from the start. B'Day took some time to grow on me, but the tunes on there are good, and songs like Crazy In Love and Naughty Girl are good though I think that era overall is overrated and is not going to age well.

SEANMAN said:

Free2BMe said:

Free2BMe, you are highly misinformed. Janet played keys on her very first #1, "When I Think of You". "Control" was a highly collaborative effort between her, Jimmy and Terry. The RN album was basically her concept. The black and white, the social commentary, etc. She wrote ALL of the lyrics for her biggest #1, "That's The Way Love Goes", and created the melody for it. She also created the melody for "If", and in one interview she specified saying that she wanted the melody to have an "Indian chant" feel to it. She wrote the lyrics to "All For You". She has a hand in writing everything. There are plenty of songs on Janet's records where she was the sole scribe, and either JJ and TL produced the music, or collaborated with her to do so. Beyonce, while VERY talented, has a long way to go to catch up to Janet, sorry. As I said before, Janet has unmatched records that are solid. Some of Janet's records are stand-alone, in that no other artist in history can lay claim to them but her. Beyonce may not be a Janet clone like some of the other younger female artists of today, but you can best believe that she has deriven inspiration from her. That is why she name-dropped Janet along with several other iconic female singers during one of her performances a few short years ago. That is why, on the red carpet right before the 2009 AMAs, she spoke on how Janet has influenced her. That is why she used a portion of "What Have You Done for Me Lately" in the opening of her "I Am..." tour. That is why, when Destiny's Child performed at Janet's MTV ICON show, Beyonce spoke on a dance group she used to perform in as a child, specifically saying Janet taught her her moves. That is why, during live performances of "Ring the Alarm", you can clearly see a "Rhythm Nation" influence in the choreography.

And you said that one reason Janet and Beyonce shouldn't be compared is because Janet uses sex to sell her records. What, and Beyonce doesn't? I don't know what you are watching, but it's evident that B can hardly perform a song or in a video fully dressed. It took Janet 9 long years to finally reveal her midfriff when she first hit the scene. You also said that B worked her ass off to get where she is, which is true, but don't forget that Janet did so as well. She had a famous last name, but don't you think it took work to get to the top and become a star? People were checking for her to fall on her face, or not escape the huge shadow cast by MJ, but she did just that and more. When people are still referencing Beyonce in 20 years and calling her a pop music icon, then she will be able to be in the same league as Janet.

[Edited 2/3/11 5:14am]

I have always believed that Jimmy Jam gave Janet MORE credit than she deserved for songwriting. Notice that I said Jimmy Jam because Terry Lewis never did that. I also believe that Rene Elizonda wrote most of the song lyrics that janet is credited with writing. All you have to do is listen to her songs AFTER she and Rene broke up. The content is not there. Btw, I thought this even before Rene came out and said that he wrote a lot of her hits and she finally HAD to ADMIT that it was true. Btw, Janet has 10-15 years on Beyonce in the music business and she has accomplished a lot of great things. However, that does not take away from the incredible success that Beyonce has achieved during a relative short time in the industry. Bey definently deserves the title of "Icon" or "Diva". She is not a clone of Janet. She is so much more than a clone of JJ. Now, if you want to talk about clones, speak of people like Britney. Beyonce is in a different class. Yes, Beyonce has mentioned Janet as a influence, however, she has mentioned MIchale MUCH MORE as an influence in virtually EVERY interview that she has done since Destiny's Child. I see nore of Michael's influence on Bey than I do Janet. Of course, this is my opinion.

Yeah I agree I see more michael than janet in Beyonce's influences and talent.

Free2BMe said:

SEANMAN said:

Free2BMe, you are highly misinformed. Janet played keys on her very first #1, "When I Think of You". "Control" was a highly collaborative effort between her, Jimmy and Terry. The RN album was basically her concept. The black and white, the social commentary, etc. She wrote ALL of the lyrics for her biggest #1, "That's The Way Love Goes", and created the melody for it. She also created the melody for "If", and in one interview she specified saying that she wanted the melody to have an "Indian chant" feel to it. She wrote the lyrics to "All For You". She has a hand in writing everything. There are plenty of songs on Janet's records where she was the sole scribe, and either JJ and TL produced the music, or collaborated with her to do so. Beyonce, while VERY talented, has a long way to go to catch up to Janet, sorry. As I said before, Janet has unmatched records that are solid. Some of Janet's records are stand-alone, in that no other artist in history can lay claim to them but her. Beyonce may not be a Janet clone like some of the other younger female artists of today, but you can best believe that she has deriven inspiration from her. That is why she name-dropped Janet along with several other iconic female singers during one of her performances a few short years ago. That is why, on the red carpet right before the 2009 AMAs, she spoke on how Janet has influenced her. That is why she used a portion of "What Have You Done for Me Lately" in the opening of her "I Am..." tour. That is why, when Destiny's Child performed at Janet's MTV ICON show, Beyonce spoke on a dance group she used to perform in as a child, specifically saying Janet taught her her moves. That is why, during live performances of "Ring the Alarm", you can clearly see a "Rhythm Nation" influence in the choreography.

And you said that one reason Janet and Beyonce shouldn't be compared is because Janet uses sex to sell her records. What, and Beyonce doesn't? I don't know what you are watching, but it's evident that B can hardly perform a song or in a video fully dressed. It took Janet 9 long years to finally reveal her midfriff when she first hit the scene. You also said that B worked her ass off to get where she is, which is true, but don't forget that Janet did so as well. She had a famous last name, but don't you think it took work to get to the top and become a star? People were checking for her to fall on her face, or not escape the huge shadow cast by MJ, but she did just that and more. When people are still referencing Beyonce in 20 years and calling her a pop music icon, then she will be able to be in the same league as Janet.

[Edited 2/3/11 5:14am]

I have always believed that Jimmy Jam gave Janet MORE credit than she deserved for songwriting. Notice that I said Jimmy Jam because Terry Lewis never did that. I also believe that Rene Elizonda wrote most of the song lyrics that janet is credited with writing. All you have to do is listen to her songs AFTER she and Rene broke up. The content is not there. Btw, I thought this even before Rene came out and said that he wrote a lot of her hits and she finally HAD to ADMIT that it was true. Btw, Janet has 10-15 years on Beyonce in the music business and she has accomplished a lot of great things. However, that does not take away from the incredible success that Beyonce has achieved during a relative short time in the industry. Bey definently deserves the title of "Icon" or "Diva". She is not a clone of Janet. She is so much more than a clone of JJ. Now, if you want to talk about clones, speak of people like Britney. Beyonce is in a different class. Yes, Beyonce has mentioned Janet as a influence, however, she has mentioned MIchale MUCH MORE as an influence in virtually EVERY interview that she has done since Destiny's Child. I see nore of Michael's influence on Bey than I do Janet. Of course, this is my opinion.

Well, I didn't say that B was a "Janet Clone". That would be your Britneys, Ciaras and the like. I did note that B has given Janet props on more than one occasion, which shows Janet's influence on her. I'm not taking anything away from Beyonce, because what she's managed to accomplish in her career is great, but, to me, she has got to be in the game for a really long time as a solo artist in order to equal J. People are too quick nowadays to throw around the term "legend" and "icon". It seems that all an artist has to do is release a few #1 hits and videos, and have a million views on Youtube and suddenly they're an "icon". It takes years of being in the business, and the ability to be able to reflect on a longstanding career to be able to say that about an artist.

About Janet's involvement in the songwriting process, she really does write a lot of her own stuff. She penned several of her most famous songs alone and/or co-created the melodies with JJ and TL. Elizondo started giving some input later on, but to what extent, who knows? Jimmy even stated in an interview around the time that Rene was making songwriting claims that he "never saw Rene hanging around with a pad and pencil" during the songwriting process. Janet also later said that, in the beginning, she wanted to give Rene credit for whatever his input was, but he never wanted it. It wasn't until TVR album that he accepted credit for whatever he did. Janet wrote Black Cat by herself, and co-produced it with Jellybean Johnson. She wrote All for You while JJ and TL created the music. She wrote That's The Way Love Goes, and came up with the melody for If. Alot of songs that were never released as singles she wrote, like Whoops Now, Can't Be Stopped etc. She's not the puppet a lot of folks make her out to be.

[Edited 2/4/11 6:01am]

SEANMAN said:

Free2BMe said:

I have always believed that Jimmy Jam gave Janet MORE credit than she deserved for songwriting. Notice that I said Jimmy Jam because Terry Lewis never did that. I also believe that Rene Elizonda wrote most of the song lyrics that janet is credited with writing. All you have to do is listen to her songs AFTER she and Rene broke up. The content is not there. Btw, I thought this even before Rene came out and said that he wrote a lot of her hits and she finally HAD to ADMIT that it was true. Btw, Janet has 10-15 years on Beyonce in the music business and she has accomplished a lot of great things. However, that does not take away from the incredible success that Beyonce has achieved during a relative short time in the industry. Bey definently deserves the title of "Icon" or "Diva". She is not a clone of Janet. She is so much more than a clone of JJ. Now, if you want to talk about clones, speak of people like Britney. Beyonce is in a different class. Yes, Beyonce has mentioned Janet as a influence, however, she has mentioned MIchale MUCH MORE as an influence in virtually EVERY interview that she has done since Destiny's Child. I see nore of Michael's influence on Bey than I do Janet. Of course, this is my opinion.

Well, I didn't say that B was a "Janet Clone". That would be your Britneys, Ciaras and the like. I did note that B has given Janet props on more than one occasion, which shows Janet's influence on her. I'm not taking anything away from Beyonce, because what she's managed to accomplish in her career is great, but, to me, she has got to be in the game for a really long time as a solo artist in order to equal J. People are too quick nowadays to throw around the term "legend" and "icon". It seems that all an artist has to do is release a few #1 hits and videos, and have a million views on Youtube and suddenly they're an "icon". It takes years of being in the business, and the ability to be able to reflect on a longstanding career to be able to say that about an artist.

About Janet's involvement in the songwriting process, she really does write a lot of her own stuff. She penned several of her most famous songs alone and/or co-created the melodies with JJ and TL. Elizondo started giving some input later on, but to what extent, who knows? Jimmy even stated in an interview around the time that Rene was making songwriting claims that he "never saw Rene hanging around with a pad and pencil" during the songwriting process. Janet also later said that, in the beginning, she wanted to give Rene credit for whatever his input was, but he never wanted it. It wasn't until TVR album that he accepted credit for whatever he did. Janet wrote Black Cat by herself, and co-produced it with Jellybean Johnson. She wrote All for You while JJ and TL created the music. She wrote That's The Way Love Goes, and came up with the melody for If. Alot of songs that were never released as singles she wrote, like Whoops Now, Can't Be Stopped etc. She's not the puppet a lot of folks make her out to be.

[Edited 2/4/11 6:01am]

I agree with everything you are saying, keep it up! Even though I've been praising Beyonce too, I thought it was arrogant when she was saying in interviews early in her solo career that she wants to become an icon and things like that. IMO you don't SAY stuff like that, it's arrogant and cocky, it's something you keep to yourself if that's your long term goal, instead, in the words of janet, just be yourself and let that be your guide.

I remember the All For You era interview too where she talked about the songwriting process, I think she may have mentioned how she wrote Come On Get Up and Someone to Call My Lover as well. And Janet said that too in an interview about him not wanting credit. I knew someone was going to say Jimmy is BS-ing, but what's in it for him to lie about that? I think it's because Janet is a female and a dance artist that she doesn't get enough credit for all the musical styles she does. Even Michael himself said that people look at his dancing and forget that he's involved with the music video direction or songwriting.

alphastreet said:

SEANMAN said:

Well, I didn't say that B was a "Janet Clone". That would be your Britneys, Ciaras and the like. I did note that B has given Janet props on more than one occasion, which shows Janet's influence on her. I'm not taking anything away from Beyonce, because what she's managed to accomplish in her career is great, but, to me, she has got to be in the game for a really long time as a solo artist in order to equal J. People are too quick nowadays to throw around the term "legend" and "icon". It seems that all an artist has to do is release a few #1 hits and videos, and have a million views on Youtube and suddenly they're an "icon". It takes years of being in the business, and the ability to be able to reflect on a longstanding career to be able to say that about an artist.

About Janet's involvement in the songwriting process, she really does write a lot of her own stuff. She penned several of her most famous songs alone and/or co-created the melodies with JJ and TL. Elizondo started giving some input later on, but to what extent, who knows? Jimmy even stated in an interview around the time that Rene was making songwriting claims that he "never saw Rene hanging around with a pad and pencil" during the songwriting process. Janet also later said that, in the beginning, she wanted to give Rene credit for whatever his input was, but he never wanted it. It wasn't until TVR album that he accepted credit for whatever he did. Janet wrote Black Cat by herself, and co-produced it with Jellybean Johnson. She wrote All for You while JJ and TL created the music. She wrote That's The Way Love Goes, and came up with the melody for If. Alot of songs that were never released as singles she wrote, like Whoops Now, Can't Be Stopped etc. She's not the puppet a lot of folks make her out to be.

[Edited 2/4/11 6:01am]

I agree with everything you are saying, keep it up! Even though I've been praising Beyonce too, I thought it was arrogant when she was saying in interviews early in her solo career that she wants to become an icon and things like that. IMO you don't SAY stuff like that, it's arrogant and cocky, it's something you keep to yourself if that's your long term goal, instead, in the words of janet, just be yourself and let that be your guide.

I remember the All For You era interview too where she talked about the songwriting process, I think she may have mentioned how she wrote Come On Get Up and Someone to Call My Lover as well. And Janet said that too in an interview about him not wanting credit. I knew someone was going to say Jimmy is BS-ing, but what's in it for him to lie about that? I think it's because Janet is a female and a dance artist that she doesn't get enough credit for all the musical styles she does. Even Michael himself said that people look at his dancing and forget that he's involved with the music video direction or songwriting.

Right. Janet's musical styles vary because she has eclectic musical tastes. She has spoken numerous times that her tastes range from Sly and the Family Stone, Stevie Wonder and Joni Mitchell to such Brazillian jazz artists like Cesaria Evora and Gilberto Gil. Her music encompasses Pop, Rock, RnB, House, Europop and even some big-band-ish type songs. That's probably why she's the only artist in history to be nominated in the Pop, Rock, Dance, RnB and Rap catgories at the Grammys.

SEANMAN said:

alphastreet said:

I agree with everything you are saying, keep it up! Even though I've been praising Beyonce too, I thought it was arrogant when she was saying in interviews early in her solo career that she wants to become an icon and things like that. IMO you don't SAY stuff like that, it's arrogant and cocky, it's something you keep to yourself if that's your long term goal, instead, in the words of janet, just be yourself and let that be your guide.

I remember the All For You era interview too where she talked about the songwriting process, I think she may have mentioned how she wrote Come On Get Up and Someone to Call My Lover as well. And Janet said that too in an interview about him not wanting credit. I knew someone was going to say Jimmy is BS-ing, but what's in it for him to lie about that? I think it's because Janet is a female and a dance artist that she doesn't get enough credit for all the musical styles she does. Even Michael himself said that people look at his dancing and forget that he's involved with the music video direction or songwriting.

Right. Janet's musical styles vary because she has eclectic musical tastes. She has spoken numerous times that her tastes range from Sly and the Family Stone, Stevie Wonder and Joni Mitchell to such Brazillian jazz artists like Cesaria Evora and Gilberto Gil. Her music encompasses Pop, Rock, RnB, House, Europop and even some big-band-ish type songs. That's probably why she's the only artist in history to be nominated in the Pop, Rock, Dance, RnB and Rap catgories at the Grammys.

and now charting on the jazz charts and even adult contemporary! I love hearing her talk about her musical influences, and same with when michael wrote about it in moonwalk and did j5 covers of contemporary hits....I love music too and listened to their influences to learn more as well, which really helped.

SEANMAN said:

purplesweat said:

Cuz she's an artist that didn't release music in the 80s and is still/currently relevant.

Oh please, Beyonce had better pray that she can have a 30-plus year old career. Janet is an icon. Beyonce is a pop idol still in training.

Beyonce's career is already 14 years long, she's performed with Prince, Janet's bro had a serious crush on her, performed for the first ever black President and is the most successful artist of the 2000s decade. Janet? Hasn't been relevant since the mid 90s and is famous to the new generations only for Boobgate There's no point in comparing the two when one isn't releasing music steadily or performing regularly.

purplesweat said:

SEANMAN said:

Oh please, Beyonce had better pray that she can have a 30-plus year old career. Janet is an icon. Beyonce is a pop idol still in training.

Beyonce's career is already 14 years long, she's performed with Prince, Janet's bro had a serious crush on her, performed for the first ever black President and is the most successful artist of the 2000s decade. Janet? Hasn't been relevant since the mid 90s and is famous to the new generations only for Boobgate There's no point in comparing the two when one isn't releasing music steadily or performing regularly.

Beyonce has had just as much success as Janet at this point I don't know what the hell yal are talking about. Only difference is in age and career-length. Talent is subjective but most people polled would agree Weave is the better singer while Jackson is the better dancer. I personally don't give either of them serious credit when it comes to writing ability. Too many slashes in the song titles if you know what I mean.

[Edited 2/5/11 0:11am]

musicjunky318 said:

Beyonce has had just as much success as Janet at this point I don't know what the hell yal are talking about. Only difference is in age and career-length. Talent is subjective but most people polled would agree Weave is the better singer while Jackson is the better dancer. I personally don't give either of them serious credit when it comes to writing ability. Too many slashes in the song titles if you know what I mean.

[Edited 2/5/11 0:11am]

And yet you champion the trainwreck that is Britney Spears, who's basically the white clone of Janet Jackson? Kids. Lawdy...

[Edited 2/5/11 1:21am]

musicjunky318 said:

Beyonce has had just as much success as Janet at this point I don't know what the hell yal are talking about. Only difference is in age and career-length. Talent is subjective but most people polled would agree Weave is the better singer while Jackson is the better dancer. I personally don't give either of them serious credit when it comes to writing ability. Too many slashes in the song titles if you know what I mean.

[Edited 2/5/11 0:11am]

^^ THAT should end it right there. I agree 200%!

Beyonce is the better singer

Janet is the better dancer

As far as song-writing goes, I give Janet more props because she usually sticks with the same writers (Jimmy and Terry) and co-writes with them while Beyonce's name seems to get lost in the writing credits of the dozens of people she seem to write with just for ONE song. Bey brags about how much she writes, but I have yet to see her write a #1 song BY HERSELF without the help of Sean Garrett, Solange, Angela Beyince, LaShawn Daniels, Rodney Jerkins, Babyface, Ne-Yo, The-Dream, Ryan Tedder, Rico Love, James Fauntleroy, Makeba and Cristyle.

Bey's songs are never written FOR HER. Her songs are shopped around to other artists also but when she finds one she likes, she tweaks a lyric or 2. Somewhere in her contract, she's OBLIGATED to get credit.

musicjunky318 said:

Beyonce has had just as much success as Janet at this point I don't know what the hell yal are talking about. Only difference is in age and career-length. Talent is subjective but most people polled would agree Weave is the better singer while Jackson is the better dancer. I personally don't give either of them serious credit when it comes to writing ability. Too many slashes in the song titles if you know what I mean.

[Edited 2/5/11 0:11am]

Okay and this is coming from the same bitch that calls an untalented hick Godney. Gtfoh. Janet is a songwriter and has written her songs by herself so no we're not aware of these slashes.

purplesweat said:

SEANMAN said:

Oh please, Beyonce had better pray that she can have a 30-plus year old career. Janet is an icon. Beyonce is a pop idol still in training.

Beyonce's career is already 14 years long, she's performed with Prince, Janet's bro had a serious crush on her, performed for the first ever black President and is the most successful artist of the 2000s decade. Janet? Hasn't been relevant since the mid 90s and is famous to the new generations only for Boobgate There's no point in comparing the two when one isn't releasing music steadily or performing regularly.

Oh hush, child. It's PAINFULLY obvious that you know absolutely nothing about music history and pop culture, which is why I shouldn't dignify your stupidity with a response, but I'm going to anyway. Beyonce, for all that she has achieved, ain't shit when it comes to her and Janet. There IS no comparison. Janet is a pop music icon, wtih records not even Beyonce will ever break. Beyonce is a star of the new generation. NEW generation. She has not been around long enough to claim icon rights. And her career is 12 years long, not 14. She's just over a decade being a serious performer, so you can go elsewhere with that. And you say Janet hasn't been relevant since the mid '90s? The fuck are you smoking? Her biggest first week album sales came in the NEW MILLINEUM. She's currently on a sold-out world tour, just finished two films for which her acting received critical acclaim (can't say the same for non-acting Beyonce), and was the first artist to score a #1 hit on the Hot 100 Billboard chart in the 80s, 90s AND 2000s. Beyonce, at this point, cannot claim having albums as iconic as Control or Rhythm Nation, or as emotionally raw as The Velvet Rope. Her CDs may be big hits of the Youtube and Facebook generation, but Janet's biggest albums are classics. They are included on several All Time Greatest Album lists (deemed so by Rolling Stone AND the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame). As for Prince, he AND Beyonce have performed Janet's "What Have You Done for Me Lately" in concert, so that is ONE thing they have in common . She's also given Janet props in several interviews, and basically ripped the militant "Rhythm Nation" routine for her "Ring The Alarm" performances. Janet was making hits when Beyonce was still bossing Kelly Rowland and company around in her mommy and daddy's back yard, AND she was doing it fully dressed and without shaking her ass all around in a leotard. You're right about one thing, though. There is no point comparing them, because one of them is simply in training.

[Edited 2/5/11 1:44am]

purplesweat said:

Beyonce's career is already 14 years long, she's performed with Prince, Janet's bro had a serious crush on her, performed for the first ever black President and is the most successful artist of the 2000s decade. Janet? Hasn't been relevant since the mid 90s and is famous to the new generations only for Boobgate There's no point in comparing the two when one isn't releasing music steadily or performing regularly.

So basically your saying anything Beyonce has done is only worthy with someone else's name attached with it too?