Graycap23 said:

Cinnie said:

Exactly my thoughts..........

The Beatles were excellent song writers, and many of their songs crossed over into Funk, Soul and Jazz (some Soul artists even recorded entire albums dedicated to Beatles material, like George Benson with The Other Side of Abbey Road or Booker T. & the M.G.s with McLemore Avenue).

But they weren't really the best musicians. They were ok. George Harrisson was the best musician in the group, IMO. But he certainly wasn't a Funk guitarist.

MrSoulpower said:

Back in the late 1960s and early 1970s - the first prime in Funk - there were countless white or mixed Funk bands here in the U.S. Most of them just never broke into the mainstream. Today, as we see the comeback of Funk, there are many Funk bands all over the world - and most of them consist of white players. Only few Funk guitarists became famous back in the day, and they happened to be black ... but that doesn't mean that there were no or just few white guitarists.

I was waiting for ya . . . .

Some topics just bring you out of the soul wood work.

TD3 said:

MrSoulpower said:

Back in the late 1960s and early 1970s - the first prime in Funk - there were countless white or mixed Funk bands here in the U.S. Most of them just never broke into the mainstream. Today, as we see the comeback of Funk, there are many Funk bands all over the world - and most of them consist of white players. Only few Funk guitarists became famous back in the day, and they happened to be black ... but that doesn't mean that there were no or just few white guitarists.

I was waiting for ya . . . .

Some topics just bring you out of the soul wood work.

Thanks for keeping my seat warm.

But seriously, I hate it when people apply racial stereotypes to music. Southern Soul music became what it is because white and black people dared to work together in a racially charged environment .. and the outcome was arguably the best Soul music ever recorded. Look at Stax, look at Muscle Shoals, look at Hi Records .. All created by black and white folks working side by side .. as it should be.

MrSoulpower said:

Graycap23 said:

Exactly my thoughts..........

The Beatles were excellent song writers, and many of their songs crossed over into Funk, Soul and Jazz (some Soul artists even recorded entire albums dedicated to Beatles material, like George Benson with The Other Side of Abbey Road or Booker T. & the M.G.s with McLemore Avenue).

But they weren't really the best musicians. They were ok. George Harrisson was the best musician in the group, IMO. But he certainly wasn't a Funk guitarist.

Understatement of the decade.

Graycap23 said:

MrSoulpower said:

The Beatles were excellent song writers, and many of their songs crossed over into Funk, Soul and Jazz (some Soul artists even recorded entire albums dedicated to Beatles material, like George Benson with The Other Side of Abbey Road or Booker T. & the M.G.s with McLemore Avenue).

But they weren't really the best musicians. They were ok. George Harrisson was the best musician in the group, IMO. But he certainly wasn't a Funk guitarist.

Understatement of the decade.

Not really. They weren't bad musicians. But they weren't the best either. And that's ok .. their music is pure genius because of their songwriting skills and because of George Martin, who happens to be one of the most gifted producers in music history. As a group, they are certainly not underrated. And I don't think they are overrated as musicians .. I hardly ever see anyone praise their skills as instrumentalists ..

Cinnie said:

novabrkr said:

well what the fuck else you want to box it as? he's a white funk guitar player!

It was an emoticon that was supposed to have signaled defeat.

As in,

"

I just got told."

Graycap23 said:

The Beatles................they invented everything about music.

George Harrison did produce some of Billy Preston's songs and John Lennon had something to do with Fame by David Bowie.

I praise Paul Mccartney ,he was the best guitar player,bass player,pianist and drummer in the Beatles.

Paul is monster musician instrumentalist very proficient on every instrument

MrSoulpower said:

Back in the late 1960s and early 1970s - the first prime in Funk - there were countless white or mixed Funk bands here in the U.S. Most of them just never broke into the mainstream. Today, as we see the comeback of Funk, there are many Funk bands all over the world - and most of them consist of white players. Only few Funk guitarists became famous back in the day, and they happened to be black ... but that doesn't mean that there were no or just few white guitarists.

You are so right Mrsoulpower. Whether they were funk or not, many of those white groups(musicians) were successful in crossing over with their music during the 60s/70s era. Black kids/teens listened to everything from Janis Joplin, The Beatles, Three Dog Night, Joe Cocker, Rare Earth, The Young Rascals, Average White Band, Wild Cherry, Chick Corea, Weather report, etc., I could go on. Was some good music back then, from both white/black musicians(groups) and racially-mixed groups that had no problems crossing over with their music, because it was truly about the music back then and the music was good.

Now I feel like searching for all that good music over the weekend.

[Edited 12/3/10 9:16am]

Graycap23 said:

The Beatles................they invented everything about music.

They have so many classics that will live forever.

The Long and Winding Road - I don't know who could listen to that song without it touching deep in your soul.

Just to name a few of my favorites

Yesterday

Help

I Saw You Standing There

A Hard Day's Night

All My Loving

Hey Jude

She Loves Me, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah

Some of these youngun's today have no idea what they missed.[Edited 12/3/10 9:10am]

[Edited 12/3/10 9:14am]

AWB's Hamish Stuart with Chaka & band @ The Roxy

Charles "Icarus" Johnson ( George Duke Band )

Nicky Moroch & Lenny White's Twennynine

bass

thebanishedone said:

I praise Paul Mccartney ,he was the best guitar player,bass player,pianist and drummer in the Beatles.

Paul is monster musician instrumentalist very proficient on every instrument

Paul was a better guitarist than George on a technical level, but I find George's playing more adventurous and creative. And like I said, he was an ok player on all these instruments, but I wouldn't call him a monster musician. He would not have survived a day in the James Brown Orchestra of the 1960s.

Jeff Beck can be pretty funky when he wants to be. Before going the jazz/funk/rock fusion in 1975, he had some funky guitar licks on "The Hangman's Knee" in The Jeff Beck Group (Rod Stewart was the vocalist). In the second rendition of The Jeff Beck Group (1971 - 1972), songs such as "Got The Feeling", "Situation", "Sugar Cane" and "Ice Cream Cakes" (the latter two having been produced by Steve Cropper), also had funkiness.

He plays 9th chords all over the place on "You Know What I Mean" and "AIR Blower" from BLOW BY BLOW. He also gets funky on "Thelonius" - which was Roger/Zapp's blueprint for "More Bounce To The Ounce".

He has futher delved into funkiness on "Come Dancing" (written by Narada Michael Walden) and "Play With Me" from the WIRED album. Further examples of Jeff Beck's funky leanings: "Blast From The East" and "Hip Notica" from the WHO ELSE! album;

"Dirty Mind", "Rosebud" and "Roy's Toys" from the YOU HAD IT COMING album; "My Thing". "Pay Me No Mind" and "Pork-U-Pine" from the JEFF album.

On his current tour backed by Narada Michael Walden on drums; Rhonda Smith on basses and vocals; and Jason Rebello on keyboards he gets funky during "Rhonda's Jam" and the intro to "I Want To Take You Higher".

Narada Michael Walden said, “... and Jeff can be filthy, stinky that way,” Mr. Walden

said in an interview here. (NY Times) “He’s not just melody, or a guy who can make his guitar cry. He’s a funky cat too, always thinking about rhythm, and he has a fearlessness that makes him open to all kinds of material.”

some examples:

"I Want To Take You Higher"

http://www.youtube.com/wa...tKGBmyyHzE

"Rhonda's Jam"

http://www.youtube.com/wa...eGapNmb50A

2elijah said:

Graycap23 said:

The Beatles................they invented everything about music.

They have so many classics that will live forever.

The Long and Winding Road - I don't know who could listen to that song without it touching deep in your soul.

Just to name a few of my favorites

Yesterday

Help

I Saw You Standing There

A Hard Day's Night

All My Loving

Hey Jude

She Loves Me, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah

Some of these youngun's today have no idea what they missed.[Edited 12/3/10 9:10am]

[Edited 12/3/10 9:14am]

Simon Bartholomew from the Brand New Heavies.

2elijah said:

Graycap23 said:

The Beatles................they invented everything about music.

They have so many classics that will live forever.

The Long and Winding Road - I don't know who could listen to that song without it touching deep in your soul.

Just to name a few of my favorites

Yesterday

Help

I Saw You Standing There

A Hard Day's Night

All My Loving

Hey Jude

She Loves Me, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah

Some of these youngun's today have no idea what they missed.[Edited 12/3/10 9:10am]

[Edited 12/3/10 9:14am]

Exactly. The songs you mentioned will stand the test of time 300 years from now.

It's interesting how some people try to belittle the Beatles' skills today. But back in the 1960s, they wrote groundbreaking music. Even then, some people claimed "I could have written that as well." But guess what - nobody else did, and there were many who tried but failed (it didn't turn out too well when the Beach Boys started going psychedelic ).

I think there is some hate for the Beatles in the African-American community today; maybe because some feel that, like Elvis, the Beatles "stole" black music. I find that nonsense, because first of all, musical styles can't be stolen. They are there for everyone to use. Early Jazz bands base their music on military marching band music. Did they steal it? No, they justed took that sound and created a new genre.

Also, the Beatles were open admirers of Soul and Rhythm and Blues. They loved Motown, and they loved Stax. They were certainly influenced by these sounds, and in return, they impacted Soul music. The reason why so many black artists covered Beatles songs back in the day was because .. they were some damn good songs.

Paul came up with pretty inventive bass lines. His bass playing is one of those things that I like the most about the "Abbey Road" and "Let It Be" albums.

However, let's not forget that singers are musicians too. As rock'n'roll vocalists, John and Paul were among the best.

MrSoulpower said:

2elijah said:

They have so many classics that will live forever.

The Long and Winding Road - I don't know who could listen to that song without it touching deep in your soul.

Just to name a few of my favorites

Yesterday

Help

I Saw You Standing There

A Hard Day's Night

All My Loving

Hey Jude

She Loves Me, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah

Some of these youngun's today have no idea what they missed.[Edited 12/3/10 9:10am]

[Edited 12/3/10 9:14am]

Exactly. The songs you mentioned will stand the test of time 300 years from now.

It's interesting how some people try to belittle the Beatles' skills today. But back in the 1960s, they wrote groundbreaking music. Even then, some people claimed "I could have written that as well." But guess what - nobody else did, and there were many who tried but failed (it didn't turn out too well when the Beach Boys started going psychedelic ).

I think there is some hate for the Beatles in the African-American community today; maybe because some feel that, like Elvis, the Beatles "stole" black music. I find that nonsense, because first of all, musical styles can't be stolen. They are there for everyone to use. Early Jazz bands base their music on military marching band music. Did they steal it? No, they justed took that sound and created a new genre.

Also, the Beatles were open admirers of Soul and Rhythm and Blues. They loved Motown, and they loved Stax. They were certainly influenced by these sounds, and in return, they impacted Soul music. The reason why so many black artists covered Beatles songs back in the day was because .. they were some damn good songs.

Lol........hate?

I'll take good music from any source that I can find it. I just don't think the Beatles were/are any where near the talents that people claim that they were. Good music 2 me is music I can feel. I can't 'feel" any the Beatles music......by contrast listen 2 Donny Hataways covers of the Beatles songs. I can feel those in my sleep as opposed 2 the Beatles versions.

Uhm, but yeah, funk guitarists... folks?

Graycap23 said:

MrSoulpower said:

Exactly. The songs you mentioned will stand the test of time 300 years from now.

It's interesting how some people try to belittle the Beatles' skills today. But back in the 1960s, they wrote groundbreaking music. Even then, some people claimed "I could have written that as well." But guess what - nobody else did, and there were many who tried but failed (it didn't turn out too well when the Beach Boys started going psychedelic ).

I think there is some hate for the Beatles in the African-American community today; maybe because some feel that, like Elvis, the Beatles "stole" black music. I find that nonsense, because first of all, musical styles can't be stolen. They are there for everyone to use. Early Jazz bands base their music on military marching band music. Did they steal it? No, they justed took that sound and created a new genre.

Also, the Beatles were open admirers of Soul and Rhythm and Blues. They loved Motown, and they loved Stax. They were certainly influenced by these sounds, and in return, they impacted Soul music. The reason why so many black artists covered Beatles songs back in the day was because .. they were some damn good songs.

Lol........hate?

I'll take good music from any source that I can find it. I just don't think the Beatles were/are any where near the talents that people claim that they were. Good music 2 me is music I can feel. I can't 'feel" any the Beatles music......by contrast listen 2 Donny Hataways covers of the Beatles songs. I can feel those in my sleep as opposed 2 the Beatles versions.

I wasn't referring to you when I said "hate." I don't sense Beatles hate from you .. just dislike. And that's ok. But personal taste aside, I think they should get credit for their huge impact on songwriting, music production and popular culture. I hardly listen to the Beatles, I need to be in a certain mood for it .. and I definitely listen to Donny Hathaway more. But I wouldn't belittle their talent.

novabrkr said:

Paul came up with pretty inventive bass lines. His bass playing is one of those things that I like the most about the "Abbey Road" and "Let It Be" albums.

However, let's not forget that singers are musicians too. As rock'n'roll vocalists, John and Paul were among the best.

Agreed ... they definitely could sing, and their voices were perfect for their songs. Nobody else can sing these songs like they did.

MrSoulpower said:

Graycap23 said:

Lol........hate?

I'll take good music from any source that I can find it. I just don't think the Beatles were/are any where near the talents that people claim that they were. Good music 2 me is music I can feel. I can't 'feel" any the Beatles music......by contrast listen 2 Donny Hataways covers of the Beatles songs. I can feel those in my sleep as opposed 2 the Beatles versions.

I wasn't referring to you when I said "hate." I don't sense Beatles hate from you .. just dislike. And that's ok. But personal taste aside, I think they should get credit for their huge impact on songwriting, music production and popular culture. I hardly listen to the Beatles, I need to be in a certain mood for it .. and I definitely listen to Donny Hathaway more. But I wouldn't belittle their talent.

I know u weren't talking about me but I wanted 2 point out that there are a lot of folks that feel the way that I do about the Beatles. No hate involved. Just certain taste in music.

Kevin Chokan with Jeffrey Osborne Band

Pete Glenister played guitar for TTD in the 80s.

MrSoulpower said:

2elijah said:

They have so many classics that will live forever.

The Long and Winding Road - I don't know who could listen to that song without it touching deep in your soul.

Just to name a few of my favorites

Yesterday

Help

I Saw You Standing There

A Hard Day's Night

All My Loving

Hey Jude

She Loves Me, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah

Some of these youngun's today have no idea what they missed.[Edited 12/3/10 9:10am]

[Edited 12/3/10 9:14am]

Exactly. The songs you mentioned will stand the test of time 300 years from now.

It's interesting how some people try to belittle the Beatles' skills today. But back in the 1960s, they wrote groundbreaking music. Even then, some people claimed "I could have written that as well." But guess what - nobody else did, and there were many who tried but failed (it didn't turn out too well when the Beach Boys started going psychedelic ).

I think there is some hate for the Beatles in the African-American community today; maybe because some feel that, like Elvis, the Beatles "stole" black music. I find that nonsense, because first of all, musical styles can't be stolen. They are there for everyone to use. Early Jazz bands base their music on military marching band music. Did they steal it? No, they justed took that sound and created a new genre.

Also, the Beatles were open admirers of Soul and Rhythm and Blues. They loved Motown, and they loved Stax. They were certainly influenced by these sounds, and in return, they impacted Soul music. The reason why so many black artists covered Beatles songs back in the day was because .. they were some damn good songs.

(Bolded part) Really? I don't know of any black person who grew up with Beatles music, who hates the Beatles. Many in the Black community embraced the Beatles during the time the Beatles stayed together. Even when they broke up and Paul and John went their own way. No one can actually steal what's typecast as "black music or any other music" because the sounds of one's music comes from the artist's/musician's soul, and there's so many different sounds and feelings to music. I feel that musicians can of course, mimmick another musician's/artist's sound, but they can never really steal if from them.

I never saw the Beatles as stealing black music, because to me their music never came across with that type of sound as "black music". It was just good music with their own sound. Now Elvis was more "soulful" because I believe he was more exposed to the sound of blues music, he's heard from many black musicians. James Brown said that Elvis also frequented black clubs, according to James Brown autobiography, and was fascinated with the black gospel sound, which he incorporated in his music once he experienced it and adopted many of the moves of black artists/entertainers he was fascinated with. To me, the Beatles brought a very, different sound to the U.S. that was likeable by most, regardless of what race group you were from. For me, with music, if the artist can sing, and their music moves me, then it's worth listening to. I just wish some of that good music was being expressed and originated by some of the new musicians/artists we have today. Not too many classics are coming out since the end of the 70s in my opinion.

I think if you're referencing Blacks who grew up 15 or 20 years after the Beatles music, then that could be because they grew up in a different era, and the Beatles sound may not have the same effect or respect, as someone who grew up with the Beatles music when they first came out. Very surprised that anyone would hate the Beatles music when they stayed together as a group. Anyway, I don't want the author of this thread to come after us for going off topic, so I'll save this discussion about the Beatles music for a different thread.

[Edited 12/3/10 10:32am]

novabrkr said:

Cinnie said:

well what the fuck else you want to box it as? he's a white funk guitar player!

It was an emoticon that was supposed to have signaled defeat.

As in,

"

I just got told."

You know what? Fuck it. Dave1 is jewish anyway.

2elijah said:

MrSoulpower said:

Exactly. The songs you mentioned will stand the test of time 300 years from now.

It's interesting how some people try to belittle the Beatles' skills today. But back in the 1960s, they wrote groundbreaking music. Even then, some people claimed "I could have written that as well." But guess what - nobody else did, and there were many who tried but failed (it didn't turn out too well when the Beach Boys started going psychedelic ).

I think there is some hate for the Beatles in the African-American community today; maybe because some feel that, like Elvis, the Beatles "stole" black music. I find that nonsense, because first of all, musical styles can't be stolen. They are there for everyone to use. Early Jazz bands base their music on military marching band music. Did they steal it? No, they justed took that sound and created a new genre.

Also, the Beatles were open admirers of Soul and Rhythm and Blues. They loved Motown, and they loved Stax. They were certainly influenced by these sounds, and in return, they impacted Soul music. The reason why so many black artists covered Beatles songs back in the day was because .. they were some damn good songs.

(Bolded part) Really? I don't know of any black person who grew up with Beatles music, who hates the Beatles. Many in the Black community embraced the Beatles during the time the Beatles stayed together. Even when they broke up and Paul and John went their own way. I never saw the Beatles as stealing black music, because to me their music never came across with that type of sound as "black music". It was just good music with their own sound. Now Elvis was more "soulful" because of where he grew up. Elvis also frequented black clubs, according to James Brown autobiography, and was fascinated with the black gospel sound, which he incorporated in his music once he experienced it and adopted many of the moves of black artists/entertainers he was fascinated with. To me, the Beatles brought a very, different sound to the U.S. that was likeable by most, regardless of what race group you were from. For me, with music, if the artist can sing, and their music moves me, then it's worth listening to.

I think if you're referencing Blacks who grew up 15 or 20 years after the Beatles music, then that could be because they grew up in a different era, and the Beatles sound may not have the same effect or respect, as someone who grew up with the Beatles music when they first came out. Very surprised that anyone would hate the Beatles music when they stayed together as a group. Anyway, I don't want the author of this thread to come after us for going off topic, so I'll save this discussion about the Beatles music for a different thread.

[Edited 12/3/10 10:18am]

The bolded part from your quote above is the key. If you grew up with the Beatles, you knew better. In the business, and I've met numerous younger folks (mainly producers) who believe that the Beatles and Elvis stole black music. Interestingly, many of these same people don't listen to Soul and Funk music either, so I don't even understand why they care.

But you're right, we're getting slightly off-topic here.

Graycap23 said:

MrSoulpower said:

I wasn't referring to you when I said "hate." I don't sense Beatles hate from you .. just dislike. And that's ok. But personal taste aside, I think they should get credit for their huge impact on songwriting, music production and popular culture. I hardly listen to the Beatles, I need to be in a certain mood for it .. and I definitely listen to Donny Hathaway more. But I wouldn't belittle their talent.

I know u weren't talking about me but I wanted 2 point out that there are a lot of folks that feel the way that I do about the Beatles. No hate involved. Just certain taste in music.

Fair enough.

Cinnie said:

novabrkr said:

It was an emoticon that was supposed to have signaled defeat.

As in,

"

I just got told."

You know what? Fuck it. Dave1 is jewish anyway.

Let me clarify one more time, it meant

1) YOU ARE RIGHT

2) I WAS WRONG