Ottensen said:

This woman gives herself waay too much credit and so do her fans. If she's not actually writing the music, recording the instruments during the sessions herself, and mixing the tracks she's not creating shi-doogie, let alone a creating a musical genre of her own. She's a vocalist, period.

And that's what all of these arguments amount to.

She's doing alright being a vocalist.

Ottensen said:

Curtwill1975 said:

Some of that(I did a lot of things differently this time with my album. A lot of it was [recorded] live, less production with the vocals, I didn't do as many arrangements... that was with the I Am side http://www.guardian.co.uk...the-decade) but more than that. That's why I posted that blogger's comment in my first post in here because on B'day especially, she did use much live instrumentation. Horns, keyguitars, drums, even acoustic guitar(Irreplaceable): Hermansen also said the sound is so different — using a combination of a classic chord progression on an acoustic guitar, a modern-sounding 808 drumbeat and cellos — that it could have doomed the song to not fit any formats.

Since on her last album, one CD is more acoustic driven( Totally! Her new album has more guitar on it but the previous album, that we did for the Experience tour, the B’Day album .. there is no guitar on that album. It’s all key-guitar, which was really cool for me because I got to come into the situation, write my own guitar parts and do what I wanted to do. She has never said she didn’t like it, so that was really cool. http://iwontstfu.com/inde...interview/) while the other CD was more electronic and modern and that will help her to craft already into another lane because most producers don't do this.

This woman gives herself waay too much credit and so do her fans. If she's not actually writing the music, recording the instruments during the sessions herself, and mixing the tracks she's not creating shi-doogie, let alone a creating a musical genre of her own. She's a vocalist, period.

But that's the thing...she does contribute to the composition of her songs and not to mention, most of the time, she's not doing the demos which are the rough copies, but she contributes to what we hear as the final product.

I posted many articles even in this thread of this very thing and it seems some just don't want to believe she even does this. I never say she's on the level of Prince, R.Kelly, Babyface and etc who does the primary lyric-writing, and production. She contributes, the bulk of it being arranging and re-arranging and what she contributes has contributed to the frame-work of what music in the entertainment(mainstream( is today...whether people like that or not.

[Edited 11/29/10 14:30pm]

Ottensen said:

Curtwill1975 said:

Some of that(I did a lot of things differently this time with my album. A lot of it was [recorded] live, less production with the vocals, I didn't do as many arrangements... that was with the I Am side http://www.guardian.co.uk...the-decade) but more than that. That's why I posted that blogger's comment in my first post in here because on B'day especially, she did use much live instrumentation. Horns, keyguitars, drums, even acoustic guitar(Irreplaceable): Hermansen also said the sound is so different — using a combination of a classic chord progression on an acoustic guitar, a modern-sounding 808 drumbeat and cellos — that it could have doomed the song to not fit any formats.

Since on her last album, one CD is more acoustic driven( Totally! Her new album has more guitar on it but the previous album, that we did for the Experience tour, the B’Day album .. there is no guitar on that album. It’s all key-guitar, which was really cool for me because I got to come into the situation, write my own guitar parts and do what I wanted to do. She has never said she didn’t like it, so that was really cool. http://iwontstfu.com/inde...interview/) while the other CD was more electronic and modern and that will help her to craft already into another lane because most producers don't do this.

This woman gives herself waay too much credit and so do her fans. If she's not actually writing the music, recording the instruments during the sessions herself, and mixing the tracks she's not creating shi-doogie, let alone a creating a musical genre of her own. She's a vocalist, period.

Thank you! but her deluded stans will state otherwise. I guess they forget how one-dimensional she is.

Cinnie said:

The problem is no one should be getting song writing credit for re-arranging a song. You can arrange til the cows come home but you still didn't write it. That would be an arranging credit, and if she made any other decisions after a demo was given to her... that's production. The problem is she goes "oh what the heck I want some publishing too" and decides to "share" credits with the real songwriters. That's like inviting myself to your dining table and saying I'm gonna "share" your supper. You might say something to me, but you would let Beyonce eat.

But arranging and re-arranging, especially when the song isn't the finished product is part of publishing in the industry. What you are speaking of is, lyricism. Lyricism is only part of how a song is composed so why should anyone who arranges and re-arrange not get credit for being part of the composition of the whole song, especially if it was a demo in the first place and that re-arranging makes the difference between it being a good song or not? Not to mention, Bey's genre is a producer's genre and if it was up to them, they would rather the artist just be a vocalist only and not contribute at all so then they can make as much money as possible and the artist not being educated on the process, they get jacked up in the end. No...if an artists contributes, they should get credit for it, minimal or substantial. Now how much credit, in terms of percentages, is another topic.

Curtwill1975 said:

Cinnie said:

The problem is no one should be getting song writing credit for re-arranging a song. You can arrange til the cows come home but you still didn't write it. That would be an arranging credit, and if she made any other decisions after a demo was given to her... that's production. The problem is she goes "oh what the heck I want some publishing too" and decides to "share" credits with the real songwriters. That's like inviting myself to your dining table and saying I'm gonna "share" your supper. You might say something to me, but you would let Beyonce eat.

But arranging and re-arranging, especially when the song isn't the finished product is part of publishing in the industry. What you are speaking of is, lyricism. Lyricism is only part of how a song is composed so why should anyone who arranges and re-arrange not get credit for being part of the composition of the whole song, especially if it was a demo in the first place and that re-arranging makes the difference between it being a good song or not? Not to mention, Bey's genre is a producer's genre and if it was up to them, they would rather the artist just be a vocalist only and not contribute at all so then they can make as much money as possible and the artist not being educated on the process, they get jacked up in the end. No...if an artists contributes, they should get credit for it, minimal or substantial. Now how much credit, in terms of percentages, is another topic.

And I will post yet another quote just because I can, from Dave Pensado, one of her mix engineers (DIL and IA..SF era): Beyonce just hears those harmonies in her head.(Told you that she has a heavy harmonic sound in her music) She was born with them. Her dad, Matthew is quite a good singer, and I believe Tina sings also. She usually starts off with the tonic, and builds from there. She does a little experimentation, and then blends them herself with the engineer. I love her timing. She has no regard for the beat, but it always sounds right. I don't think I have ever seen anyone work harder than Beyonce (maybe Mya). I've seen her fly in from Europe, come to the studio, do vocals for 4 hours, fly to NY for concert, go directly to airport for 2 shows in Japan, and on and on. No sleep for days, and just keep going and loving every minute of it. Mya is like that also. I get tired just TYPING about it!http://www.gearslutz.com/...night.html

And if all she does is that, then she should get credit for it because she's the one composing them, the producers aren't telling her to do this. Not to mention, a heavy emphasis on vocal arrangements are a big part of her sound too. But this is bigger than Beyoncé too, contemporary artists especially if they are mainstream never get their due, especially in here. It's one thing not to like their music, but always questioning what they contribute to their work especially when the evidence is evident, it's a shame. Unless there is proof, I side with the artists knowing how the industry and stacked against them. Labels would rather MAKE MONEY off them than give them money. They will even decieve artists on things of this nature and years down the line, they are broke and on bankrupcy because they aren't getting as much money off their music as they think they are. So if an artists can get any kind of publishing(the right way) then I am all for it and I won't attack their credibility for saying that they contributed to their work.

Curtwill1975 said:

Now...if an artists contributes, they should get credit for it, minimal or substantial. Now how much credit, in terms of percentages, is another topic.

How does "zero percent" sound?

Curt (beyonce) your comments are comical.

Graycap23 said:

Curt (beyonce) your comments are comical.

He seems to know alot about Beyonce and what she does in the studio Come on Curt,tell us who you really are,lol.

SoulAlive said:

Graycap23 said:

Curt (beyonce) your comments are comical.

He seems to know alot about Beyonce and what she does in the studio Come on Curt,tell us who you really are,lol.

SoulAlive said:

Graycap23 said:

Curt (beyonce) your comments are comical.

He seems to know alot about Beyonce and what she does in the studio Come on Curt,tell us who you really are,lol.

I am not one of the Knowles, if that is where you are going.

Graycap23 said:

Curt (beyonce) your comments are comical.

Oh, I am Beyoncé now.

Cinnie said:

Curtwill1975 said:

Now...if an artists contributes, they should get credit for it, minimal or substantial. Now how much credit, in terms of percentages, is another topic.

How does "zero percent" sound?

Like a Christina Aguilera belted note from Tenor C and up.

Curtwill1975 said:

SoulAlive said:

He seems to know alot about Beyonce and what she does in the studio Come on Curt,tell us who you really are,lol.

I am not one of the Knowles, if that is where you are going.

midiscover said:

^

The sound used in 'Crazy in Love' was orginally created by Amerie, not Beyonce. There's nothing unique about Beyonce.

"Crazy in Love" predated "1 Thing" (and out-charted it, and won more awards, and is more relevant in general). Amerie's debut album had NONE of that go-go sound on it. And "Work it Out" predated even THAT.

You tried.

Curtwill1975 said:

ehuffnsd said:

Like A Prayer the album was recorded with all session musicans that were in the studio with Madge at the time fo the recording... she's been there doen that.

I am not talking about that. I am talking about this: Imagine Madonna deciding to take the sound that Mary J Blige does and making that into dance-pop.

Madonna did her take on hip-hop soul with the Bedtime Stories album.

TonyVanDam said:

Curtwill1975 said:

I am not talking about that. I am talking about this: Imagine Madonna deciding to take the sound that Mary J Blige does and making that into dance-pop.

Madonna did her take on hip-hop soul with the Bedtime Stories album.

Any truth to the rumor that Bey is learning guitar?

JackieBlue said:

SoulAlive said:

So,by using live instruments,she is creating her "own genre of music"?? As if noboby else has ever done that before.

I'm laid out with that one. I wish there was video of her actually saying that. I'm thinking it will sound much like what we've heard before.

go AWAY skank....GO away

JackieBlue said:

Any truth to the rumor that Bey is learning guitar?

Specifically for this album? I haven't heard that.

She was learning guitar back in DC days though (she wrote "Dangerously in Love" on the guitar). She said she was "very upset" with herself for stopping last year... so maybe.