BabyBeMine said:

I think MJ fans will always find a way to hate Sony despite them promoting and spending more money on MJ through the years than any artist. Only MJ gets a 10 million dollar video, only MJ is featured on commercials and advertising his new album on the MTV awards. I don't see other artist getting that treatment.

Fans need to understand and listen to what Teddy Riley said. He said MJ most of the time MJ recorded just 1 or 2 verses of a DEMO and moved on. Riley also said there wasn't as much new material as people thing.

So Sony has two options?

1. Forget about New Music and just enjoy his legacy like Will i Am said

2. Relase the Demo's but they have to find a way to fill in the blanks in which fans will complain

I guess you can release just the DEMO with MJ's 1 or 2 verses but you can't overpromote that or release that to radio stations. It would have to be a fan album, but NOT PROMOTED. You can't release a 1 or 2 verse song to radio and the DEMO stops there. They would be like what da hell is this.

what the hell

MJ was the one who made millions but billions to sony music, and they didn't even miss an opportunity to cash in and milk his catalgue to death, stop saying questionable shit......MJ made SONY...

BabyBeMine said:

He said MJ most of the time MJ recorded just 1 or 2 verses of a DEMO and moved on.

That's not true for demos like:

Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'

Billie Jean

Don't Stop Til' You Get Enough

Workin' Day And Night

The Girl Is Mine

Dangerous

In The Closet
For All Time

Monkey Business

Etc.

So obviously Teddy is wrong.

smoothcriminal12 said:

BabyBeMine said:

He said MJ most of the time MJ recorded just 1 or 2 verses of a DEMO and moved on.

That's not true for demos like:

Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'

Billie Jean

Don't Stop Til' You Get Enough

Workin' Day And Night

The Girl Is Mine

Dangerous

In The Closet
For All Time

Monkey Business

Etc.

So obviously Teddy is wrong.

Not to mention, I'd be happy if I could hear any of MJ's vocals on those tracks. Half a verse, half a chours... that would be enough for me. But I don't hear him anywhere. The only times I say "Yep, that's DEFINITELY Mike's vocals" are the parts where the ad-libs have been lifted from other tracks. Some people don't understand this. They mention what The Jacksons said, or how there's only rough vocals, or the vocals have been processed. Whatever... all I know is, when I listen to these tracks, I can't hear Mike. That's all I know.

[Edited 11/17/10 15:57pm]

Timmy84 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

That's not true for demos like:

Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'

Billie Jean

Don't Stop Til' You Get Enough

Workin' Day And Night

The Girl Is Mine

Dangerous

In The Closet
For All Time

Monkey Business

Etc.

So obviously Teddy is wrong.

Beautiful girl

Fall again

She got it

Work that body

In the back

I can name more

Superstition said:

Not to mention, I'd be happy if I could hear any of MJ's vocals on those tracks. Half a verse, half a chours... that would be enough for me. But I don't hear him anywhere. The only times I say "Yep, that's DEFINITELY Mike's vocals" are the parts where the ad-libs have been lifted from other tracks. Some people don't understand this. They mention what The Jacksons said, or how there's only rough vocals, or the vocals have been processed. Whatever... all I know is, when I listen to these tracks, I can't hear Mike. That's all I know.

[Edited 11/17/10 15:57pm]

Yeah really. And like others have said painstakingly even in his demos Michael always had the song least looking like it was "ready" when it wasn't.

These songs on the other hand were photoshopped.

seeingvoices12 said:

Timmy84 said:

Beautiful girl

Fall again

She got it

Work that body

In the back

I can name more

State Of Shock

Baby Be Mine

Earth Song

Gone Too Soon

BabyBeMine said:

I think MJ fans will always find a way to hate Sony despite them promoting and spending more money on MJ through the years than any artist. Only MJ gets a 10 million dollar video, only MJ is featured on commercials and advertising his new album on the MTV awards. I don't see other artist getting that treatment.

Fans need to understand and listen to what Teddy Riley said. He said MJ most of the time MJ recorded just 1 or 2 verses of a DEMO and moved on. Riley also said there wasn't as much new material as people thing.

So Sony has two options?

1. Forget about New Music and just enjoy his legacy like Will i Am said

2. Relase the Demo's but they have to find a way to fill in the blanks in which fans will complain

I guess you can release just the DEMO with MJ's 1 or 2 verses but you can't overpromote that or release that to radio stations. It would have to be a fan album, but NOT PROMOTED. You can't release a 1 or 2 verse song to radio and the DEMO stops there. They would be like what da hell is this.

Go away. You're rubbish.

seeingvoices12 said:

Militant said:

Just wanna say a quick "Fuck you, morons" to the people out there that think the kids aren't biologically Michael's. You guys are blind.

Eat shit, suckaz!

why you posted that ? now the hot mess about the kid's biology will start....lol

Wow! Think you are right Militant, not much doubt of biology from that comparison! In my opinion!

[Edited 11/17/10 16:08pm]

Superstition said:

seeingvoices12 said:

Beautiful girl

Fall again

She got it

Work that body

In the back

I can name more

State Of Shock

Baby Be Mine

Earth Song

Gone Too Soon

Beat It

She's Out of My Life

Marrk said:

BabyBeMine said:

I think MJ fans will always find a way to hate Sony despite them promoting and spending more money on MJ through the years than any artist. Only MJ gets a 10 million dollar video, only MJ is featured on commercials and advertising his new album on the MTV awards. I don't see other artist getting that treatment.

Fans need to understand and listen to what Teddy Riley said. He said MJ most of the time MJ recorded just 1 or 2 verses of a DEMO and moved on. Riley also said there wasn't as much new material as people thing.

So Sony has two options?

1. Forget about New Music and just enjoy his legacy like Will i Am said

2. Relase the Demo's but they have to find a way to fill in the blanks in which fans will complain

I guess you can release just the DEMO with MJ's 1 or 2 verses but you can't overpromote that or release that to radio stations. It would have to be a fan album, but NOT PROMOTED. You can't release a 1 or 2 verse song to radio and the DEMO stops there. They would be like what da hell is this.

Go away. You're rubbish.

MothaFunky said:

seeingvoices12 said:

why you posted that ? now the hot mess about the kid's biology will start....lol

Wow! Think you are right Militant, not much doubt of biology from that comparison! In my opinion!

[Edited 11/17/10 16:08pm]

I should have said genealogy...but it's ok

smoothcriminal12 said:

BabyBeMine said:

He said MJ most of the time MJ recorded just 1 or 2 verses of a DEMO and moved on.

That's not true for demos like:

Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'

Billie Jean

Don't Stop Til' You Get Enough

Workin' Day And Night

The Girl Is Mine

Dangerous

In The Closet
For All Time

Monkey Business

Etc.

So obviously Teddy is wrong.

Agree some demos are more fully formed - but when you look at the demo we have for Beat It - it's a rough melody line and chorus so others like it might exist.

Also allow for the possibility that Teddy is talking about work post 2001 or about the demos he has heard.

Yeah..cause there's like what 3 versions of Billie Jean.

Militant said:

Just wanna say a quick "Fuck you, morons" to the people out there that think the kids aren't biologically Michael's. You guys are blind.

Eat shit, suckaz!

Preach that s**t, Militant!

You know what else? Even though that's Blanket in the left side of that picture, you can see similarities between his facial structure and Prince and Paris. We know that Blanket's mother is not Debbie.............. so what's the only common DNA between Blanket, and Prince and Paris? MICHAEL.

Meaning, he is the father of ALL of them. I say that because I've seen people before question Prince and Paris, but say that the thought he could be Blanket's father.

Fuck those people. I've always felt bad that Michael had to deal with that. It seems some people have double standards, they wouldn't dare question whether anyone else's kids were biologically theirs, so why with MJ?

Anyway, just needed to rant a little about that...lol

And BabyBeMine, you have NO idea how the music industry works. Take Thriller, for example. 100 million sold. Who do you think made the VAST majority of that money? Sony did.

I've been in the music industry my whole life. Professionally since I was 16. I myself was signed to Sony BMG when I was 17, and EMI/Virgin when I was 19. Major labels take WAY more than the lions share of profits in every way possible. If you dare to question it, don't expect any priority for your project. Don't expect them to go out of their way to help you. And don't expect to change anything. If you're not worth that much to them, they'll drop you, and if you are, they'll lock you in and legally block you from working with anyone else. This industry is shady as hell and NOBODY is exempt from it, including Michael.

You even trying to take Sony's side and insinuating that fans dislike them for no reason shows that you have NO idea what you are talking about, so I suggest you listen to someone that does. There's a damn good reason (actually more than one) why we dislike Sony, and their treatment of MJ during the Invincible era is just the tip of the iceberg.

BabyBeMine said:

I think MJ fans will always find a way to hate Sony despite them promoting and spending more money on MJ through the years than any artist. Only MJ gets a 10 million dollar video, only MJ is featured on commercials and advertising his new album on the MTV awards. I don't see other artist getting that treatment.

Fans need to understand and listen to what Teddy Riley said. He said MJ most of the time MJ recorded just 1 or 2 verses of a DEMO and moved on. Riley also said there wasn't as much new material as people thing.

So Sony has two options?

1. Forget about New Music and just enjoy his legacy like Will i Am said

2. Relase the Demo's but they have to find a way to fill in the blanks in which fans will complain

I guess you can release just the DEMO with MJ's 1 or 2 verses but you can't overpromote that or release that to radio stations. It would have to be a fan album, but NOT PROMOTED. You can't release a 1 or 2 verse song to radio and the DEMO stops there. They would be like what da hell is this.

Some MJ fans will always distrust and dislike Sony. But what many of us realise is that it wasn't Sony Michael didn't like - but the way the new management there treated him (Tommy Motolla et al).

Whilst Sony did spend big promoting MJ they knew it was in their best interest and the return was there. But also remember when they didn't think Thriller could sell any more and didn't fun the Thriller video so Michael initially self financed it. Then it sold more than anyone could imagine.

From a business point of view MJ was a sure return. But when sales weren't as big as they projected they pulled back their investment and you have to say botched up a few of the releases.

Whilst I agree the Estate and Sony are in a no win situation when it comes to these releases as fans are divided on what they want - taking it all on what Teddy said is not the full story.

As I mentioned in the last thread I do feel the estate / sony can't win on these releases.
Some fans will want the demos only (fine for a bonus disc but not for a commercial album) while other fans will want to hear how these songs would have ended up.

Others want to hear songs that didn't make it onto his albums - others want to hear what work he did post 2001.

I think in time we will all be satisfied one way or the other with the collection of albums that will come out over the years - for now some will love 'Michael', others will think it's filler.

We have to create space for both those who are still excited by this release, and the fans who hoped for more.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2010/11/17/glee-exclusive-thriller-superbowl/

'Glee' exclusive: The cast will perform Michael Jackson's 'Thriller' for the Super Bowl episode -- and that's not all

[img:$uid]http://ewpopwatch.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/glee-thriller_320.jpg[/img:$uid]

Gleeks, you probably thought Gwyneth Paltrow doing Cee-Lo was big news. Well, you’re gonna get down on your knees and thank Grilled Cheesus for this latest bit of news I’ve got: A Glee source confirms to EW exclusively that Glee will be tackling Michael Jackson’s iconic “Thriller” for their post-Super Bowl episode…but with a twist. The Jackson classic will be performed as a mash-up with another song, yet to be chosen. But the supersized episode, which our source says will be the most expensive in Glee history and likely one of televsion’s priciest episodes ever, will also feature covers of tunes by Black Eyed Peas, Lady Antebellum, and Katy Perry. Whew. I’m already worn out, and yet there’s more…

Although “Thriller” is featured in the episode, it will not be a Michael Jackson tribute episode. Nor will it be a tribute to Bruce Springsteen, as rumors have suggested. In fact, our source says that the only pop star truly considered for the Super Bowl episode was Sir Elton John (expect a John tribute episode as part of Glee‘s back nine episodes).

The post-Super Bowl episode will instead keep with the evening’s sports theme and focus on the local football championship and Sue Sylvester’s cheerleading regionals (the “Thriller” mash-up will be played during halftime of the onscreen pigskin game). Basically, it will be a classic episode of Glee, but just bigger and better; Gleeks can also expect appearances from season two fan favorites: Blaine (Darren Criss) and Coach Beiste (Dot-Marie Jones). Oh, and General Motors is co-sponsoring the episode, which likely means there will be limited commercial interruptions.

seeingvoices12 said:

BabyBeMine said:

I think MJ fans will always find a way to hate Sony despite them promoting and spending more money on MJ through the years than any artist. Only MJ gets a 10 million dollar video, only MJ is featured on commercials and advertising his new album on the MTV awards. I don't see other artist getting that treatment.

Fans need to understand and listen to what Teddy Riley said. He said MJ most of the time MJ recorded just 1 or 2 verses of a DEMO and moved on. Riley also said there wasn't as much new material as people thing.

So Sony has two options?

1. Forget about New Music and just enjoy his legacy like Will i Am said

2. Relase the Demo's but they have to find a way to fill in the blanks in which fans will complain

I guess you can release just the DEMO with MJ's 1 or 2 verses but you can't overpromote that or release that to radio stations. It would have to be a fan album, but NOT PROMOTED. You can't release a 1 or 2 verse song to radio and the DEMO stops there. They would be like what da hell is this.

what the hell

MJ was the one who made millions but billions to sony music, and they didn't even miss an opportunity to cash in and milk his catalgue to death, stop saying questionable shit......MJ made SONY...

Im not hating now, but MJ fans whine and complain to much. For example you were upset in 2001 when Unbreakable didn't get a 10 to 20 million dollar video.

Who needs a video that expensive just to sell there album? If the song is HOT a simple video will get radio airplay and the album will sell.

Rock With You and Billie Jean are simple videos and the songs still hit 1# and the albums sold very well. Sony wanted MJ to do less expensive videos and Mike was like nooooooo i want high budget only and Sony was like OK...Album is Over

[Edited 11/17/10 17:01pm]

BabyBeMine said:

seeingvoices12 said:

what the hell

MJ was the one who made millions but billions to sony music, and they didn't even miss an opportunity to cash in and milk his catalgue to death, stop saying questionable shit......MJ made SONY...

Im not hating now, but MJ fans whine and complain to much. For example you were upset in 2001 when Unbreakable didn't get a 10 to 20 million dollar video.

Who needs a video that expensive just to sell there album? If the song is HOT a simple video will get radio airplay and the album will sell.

Rock With You and Billie Jean are simple videos and the songs still hit 1# and the albums sold very well. Sony wanted MJ to do less expensive videos and Mike was like nooooooo i want high budget only and Sony was like OK...Album is Over

[Edited 11/17/10 17:01pm]

In the past MJ got the high budget videos because Sony was confident they would get a great return on there investment.

I don't think there were as confident in 2001. MJ easily could have agreed to lower expensive videos and did one for Butterflies and maybe Whatever Happens. Prove he can still sell at a high level and maybe the 3rd or 4th single he gets his high budget video.

Michael Jackson's new album could top previous one

By Ed Christman

NEW YORK (Billboard) - Nearly a year and a half after the tragic death of Michael Jackson, the King of Pop continues to play a significant role in boosting the fortunes of his label Epic Records and its parent Sony Music Entertainment.

Jackson's total U.S. music sales are on pace to fall sharply in 2010 from last year, when grief over his untimely death on June 25, 2009, sparked a massive spike in sales of his catalog.

But Billboard estimates that Jackson's sales will still account for more than a fifth of Epic's overall recorded-music sales for 2010, helped by the highly anticipated Dec. 14 release of "Michael" a collection of previously unreleased recordings.

Sony has been telling retailers that it expects "Michael" to generate U.S. sales in its first three weeks -- the final three weeks of 2010 -- that will top the first three weeks of sales for Jackson's 2009 hits collection "This Is It."

That seems like a tall order, considering that "This is It" was tied to the hit movie documentary of the same name and was released just four months after Jackson's death.

In addition, "Breaking News," the first song that Epic released from the album, drew a mixed reaction from radio programmers.

And notwithstanding Taylor Swift's remarkable million-plus, first-week sales for her album "Speak Now." the increasingly challenging sales environment for recorded music has contributed this year to disappointing debut weeks for albums from Katy Perry, Maroon 5, Kenny Chesney and the Zac Brown Band.

But given the timing of the release of "Michael," Sony's expectations don't appear to be overly optimistic.

"This Is It" came out on Oct. 26, 2009, during the lowest sales volume week of 2009, according to Nielsen SoundScan. By contrast, the Dec. 14 street date of "Michael" means its first two sales weeks will coincide with what are traditionally the biggest sales weeks of the year -- Christmas week and the week before Christmas.

Sony is expected to ship 900,000 units of the album and has told retailers that it expects "Michael" to debut with first-week U.S. sales of 400,000 units (15% of them digital), followed by sales of 280,000 and 84,000 in the each of the next two weeks.

That would top the debut-week sales of "This Is It" by 27,000. It would also give the new title a combined three-week tally of 764,000 -- 11% higher than the 686,000 units that "This Is It" sold in its first three weeks, according to SoundScan.

Another factor that will contribute to a strong debut for Michael" is the continued halo effect from Jackson's death.

In 2009, Jackson's U.S. album sales and sales of track-equivalent albums (or TEA, where 10 digital tracks equal an album) totaled 9.5 million units. This accounted for 7% of Sony's total sales in 2009 and 41.5% of Epic's sales, SoundScan says.

Those figures helped boost Sony's total U.S. market share in 2009 by more than two percentage points to 27.9%, from 25.2% in 2008, according to SoundScan.

So far this year through the week ended Nov. 7, Jackson's album plus TEA sales totaled 1.8 million units, or 1.6% of Sony's sales and 12.7% of Epic's sales, according to SoundScan.

That's down sharply from last year, but already exceeds Jackson's full-year 2008 album plus TEA sales of 1.6 million, or 1.2% of Sony's sales and 11.9% of Epic's sales, SoundScan says.

Moreover, Billboard projects Jackson's sales through the rest of 2010, including sales of "Michael" to boost his full-year 2010 album with TEA sales to 3.2 million, accounting for an estimated 2.7% of Sony's full year sales and 22% of Epic's sales.

source: http://today.msnbc.msn.co...rtainment/

smoothcriminal12 said:

BabyBeMine said:

He said MJ most of the time MJ recorded just 1 or 2 verses of a DEMO and moved on.

That's not true for demos like:

Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'

Billie Jean

Don't Stop Til' You Get Enough

Workin' Day And Night

The Girl Is Mine

Dangerous

In The Closet
For All Time

Monkey Business

Etc.

So obviously Teddy is wrong.

Good point. Maybe MJ when he was older didn't complete the demos like when he was younger. The only way we would know is to hear the complete demo.

Militant said:

That is fantastic, oh my gosh.

I wonder how close Thriller is to 30 million by now.

Timmy84 said:

I wonder how close Thriller is to 30 million by now.

Whatchu talkin' bout, Timmy?

SherryJackson said:

Timmy84 said:

I wonder how close Thriller is to 30 million by now.

Whatchu talkin' bout, Timmy?

Because people are still claiming a tie. I'm talking about the United States lol

[Edited 11/17/10 19:00pm]

Militant said:

You know what else? Even though that's Blanket in the left side of that picture, you can see similarities between his facial structure and Prince and Paris. We know that Blanket's mother is not Debbie.............. so what's the only common DNA between Blanket, and Prince and Paris? MICHAEL.

Meaning, he is the father of ALL of them. I say that because I've seen people before question Prince and Paris, but say that the thought he could be Blanket's father.

Fuck those people. I've always felt bad that Michael had to deal with that. It seems some people have double standards, they wouldn't dare question whether anyone else's kids were biologically theirs, so why with MJ?

Anyway, just needed to rant a little about that...lol

And BabyBeMine, you have NO idea how the music industry works. Take Thriller, for example. 100 million sold. Who do you think made the VAST majority of that money? Sony did.

I've been in the music industry my whole life. Professionally since I was 16. I myself was signed to Sony BMG when I was 17, and EMI/Virgin when I was 19. Major labels take WAY more than the lions share of profits in every way possible. If you dare to question it, don't expect any priority for your project. Don't expect them to go out of their way to help you. And don't expect to change anything. If you're not worth that much to them, they'll drop you, and if you are, they'll lock you in and legally block you from working with anyone else. This industry is shady as hell and NOBODY is exempt from it, including Michael.

You even trying to take Sony's side and insinuating that fans dislike them for no reason shows that you have NO idea what you are talking about, so I suggest you listen to someone that does. There's a damn good reason (actually more than one) why we dislike Sony, and their treatment of MJ during the Invincible era is just the tip of the iceberg.

smoothcriminal12 said:

Got banned from MJJC. An "arguing ban" apparently. That place is a mess. I hate it and I am never going back there again.

It's for the best. There's some serious MODS=GODS trip going on there and any person of sane mind needs to avoid that place at all costs. I only go there for the news.

BabyBeMine said:

I think MJ fans will always find a way to hate Sony despite them promoting and spending more money on MJ through the years than any artist. Only MJ gets a 10 million dollar video, only MJ is featured on commercials and advertising his new album on the MTV awards. I don't see other artist getting that treatment.

Fans need to understand and listen to what Teddy Riley said. He said MJ most of the time MJ recorded just 1 or 2 verses of a DEMO and moved on. Riley also said there wasn't as much new material as people thing.

So Sony has two options?

1. Forget about New Music and just enjoy his legacy like Will i Am said

2. Relase the Demo's but they have to find a way to fill in the blanks in which fans will complain

I guess you can release just the DEMO with MJ's 1 or 2 verses but you can't overpromote that or release that to radio stations. It would have to be a fan album, but NOT PROMOTED. You can't release a 1 or 2 verse song to radio and the DEMO stops there. They would be like what da hell is this.

[img:$uid]http://i31.tinypic.com/107m9sx.jpg[/img:$uid]

Swa said:

Some MJ fans will always distrust and dislike Sony. But what many of us realise is that it wasn't Sony Michael didn't like - but the way the new management there treated him (Tommy Motolla et al).

Whilst Sony did spend big promoting MJ they knew it was in their best interest and the return was there. But also remember when they didn't think Thriller could sell any more and didn't fun the Thriller video so Michael initially self financed it. Then it sold more than anyone could imagine.

From a business point of view MJ was a sure return. But when sales weren't as big as they projected they pulled back their investment and you have to say botched up a few of the releases.

Whilst I agree the Estate and Sony are in a no win situation when it comes to these releases as fans are divided on what they want - taking it all on what Teddy said is not the full story.

As I mentioned in the last thread I do feel the estate / sony can't win on these releases.
Some fans will want the demos only (fine for a bonus disc but not for a commercial album) while other fans will want to hear how these songs would have ended up.

Others want to hear songs that didn't make it onto his albums - others want to hear what work he did post 2001.

I think in time we will all be satisfied one way or the other with the collection of albums that will come out over the years - for now some will love 'Michael', others will think it's filler.

We have to create space for both those who are still excited by this release, and the fans who hoped for more.

I honestly don't think it would have been that hard to please most people. Just put tracks on the album where you don't have to listen 500 times to see if Michael Jackson is on there. Seriously, many of us here are reasonable fans and don't believe in conspiracies, but a lot of us just don't hear Mike on those tracks.

Maybe we're right, maybe we're wrong, maybe there's some gray area, but there's a lot of room for doubt.

You can't please everyone, but I do think they could have pleased most people. Get rid of the questionable tracks and replace them with A Place With No Name/Escape/Blue Gangster/etc. There's a few to choose from.