what skizzorpuppy at MJJC said about the remastering for Vision

Sony are most likely using the same old transfer to cash in one last time. There will be a Blu Ray version one day (too much money to make off of it). But I don't think some of you guys realize how much time and money will have to go into making it happen. When a film is made, a master film print is created from the edit (or the original neg is used). That is why older films can have HD versions.

When video editing became the norm in the 1990's (even though the footage was filmed on film) the film was transferred to 480i video and edited (because they didn't need to make it any higher quality, it was only going to be shown on TV, why spend more money than needed?). All the special effects were created for 480i (dvd/broadcast quality). Therefore you can imagine that is a HUGE problem to bring to HD. ALL of the effects have to be recreated for anything from Black or White to Earth Song. All of the filmed footage will have to be found and re-transfered. Look at Scream 7million dollars and it was rendered at 480i, imagine how much it's going to cost to bring that to HD standards?

Ghosts is different because it was edited on film for a theater release same with Moonwalker. Most of the videos for Thriller and Bad where edited on film, if they have the film neg avalible they could make HD transfers pretty easy for those. ( Except Billie Jean which has early 80's video effects).

What sony should have done (if they didn't want to spend the money on a HD version) is gather the broadcast master tapes and remaster them as good as possible, make new digital files based off those masters. Instead they used transfers that were designed for laserdisc quality at best from the mid 90's.

Man, I find it hilarious they called the dance video game Michael Jackson The Experience. That's my life on a continual basis. I listen to his music everyday, almost all the time. I dance whenever I can to his music. I know each of his music videos, interviews, live performances etc. His voice and style has been part of me for so long it is ingrained in my genome. I can recognize his songs just from the bass lines or drum beat...

Please..a video game? Michael Jackson the Experience is my life

[Edited 11/24/10 23:38pm]

I actually tried the PSP version of "Michael Jackson The Experience".

Needless to say, it doesn't really have anything to do with the Kinect/Move versions of the game, it's just a generic "Rhythm game" (bash the buttons to the beat, a la Guitar Hero), with a cartoonish version of MJ doing dance moves in front of you.

Your goal is to collect points, which in turn earns coins, and those unlock new songs and "collectables" - which are basically just drawn pictures of various MJ memorabilia...yep.

What's sad is that the tracklist isn't the same as the bigger cousins, or even the DS - I think there's only like a dozen songs.

I would imagine the Kinect/Move version would be a BLAST. And I'm really surprised they chose to include "Sunset Driver"! Well, that song is one of those songs that should've been released in the first place...so it's no wonder.

BabyBeMine said:

The fact that there confident to go public to me shows they know its MJ and they will prove it. MJ fans are gonna look so sily running with the feminine 3 t group FALSE ACCUSATIONS. What have they accompolished to be believed? Oh yea they were popular 2 billion miles outside the USA...LMBAO

They are his FAMILY. What the fuck does some sales have to do with the validity of a musical composition? I have not sold two million album either and I know damn well, my mom knew well, my family and partner knew those songs were NOT of Michael Jackson.

You DO KNOW that the Cascios put in these songs at the Library of Congress TWO DAYS after MJ died, and Sony themselves said that all the master tapes were destroyed for this song, but they can put it up because their dumbasses already paid for it.

Hey you can sit and believe it is Michael all you want . Really your issue.

BabyBeMine said:

The fact that there confident to go public to me shows they know its MJ and they will prove it. MJ fans are gonna look so sily running with the feminine 3 t group FALSE ACCUSATIONS. What have they accompolished to be believed? Oh yea they were popular 2 billion miles outside the USA...LMBAO

I agree.

Just because people with an agenda, like Randy, Toy Toy, Joe and some nephew say it's not Michael, doesn't mean it is not him.

Look at the fans all rilled up against the ones who really cared about MJ like McClain and Branca!

I guess they don't want to admit that high-on-the-cheese o'meter-song "Breaking News" is Michael's.

/\ OK, so what's Cory Rooney's agenda? What's Darkchild's agenda?

Militant said:

/\ OK, so what's Cory Rooney's agenda? What's Darkchild's agenda?

And why would Sony, a powerhouse in the business with an image to protect and develop, sign a 250 million dollar deal for fake songs?

Oh...I get it: it's a consssssssssssssssssspiracyyyyyyyyy!!! Racisssssssssssssssssssm!!!

MOL said:

Militant said:

/\ OK, so what's Cory Rooney's agenda? What's Darkchild's agenda?

And why would Sony, a powerhouse in the business with an image to protect and develop, sign a 250 million dollar deal for fake songs?

Oh...I get it: it's a consssssssssssssssssspiracyyyyyyyyy!!! Racisssssssssssssssssssm!!!

You didn't answer my question.

And guess what? I used to be signed to Sony BMG myself. I'm very much aware of the shit they can, and would do. An image to protect and develop? Most people in the world think the songs are real anyway and wouldn't even care much even if Sony came right out and admitted the songs were fake.

And I never said ANYTHING about a conspiracy or racism, so stop putting words into my mouth.

If you believe the songs are real, you must answer the following questions:

1. Why is it ONLY the three Cascio songs that don't sound like Michael?

2. Why doesn't the vocal on "Hold My Hand", recorded in the same timeframe, sound ANYTHING like the Cascio songs?

3. Why would Darkchild and Cory Rooney say it's fake? What's their agenda?

4. Why did the Cascio's supposedly "erase" all the other vocals and claim the computers used to record the songs were destroyed?

5. Why were the songs not registered until 2 days after MJ died, and then all registered as "MJ Songbook" rather than as individual songs, as is standard industry practice?

6. Why have they obviously sampled in MJ adlibs from other songs like "Another Part Of Me" and "Earth Song"? The sampled breaths and "Dah!"s are a dead giveaway that Michael NEVER recorded a lead vocal, otherwise they'd have plenty of his adlibs from the same sessions to put in this song rather than splicing in stuff from 15 and 25 years ago.

Final point - your question about "why would Sony pay 250 million for fake songs" shows that you don't have the SLIGHTEST fucking clue about how this industry works. So let me explain this to you.

Here's how it works:

1. Michael dies

2. MJ's estate now legally owns the RIGHTS to all unreleased material. But that doesn't mean they PHYSICALLY own copies or master reels of ANYTHING. But, basically, if any producers have unreleased MJ stuff lying around, his Estate now own that. If the estate knows who has this material and ask for it, they are legally entitled to take it. If there's material lying around that the Estate doesn't know about, then it can't get released because they don't physically have a master to work with. THIS is why John McClain was "calling around producers" looking for material as was written in that one article. The EXACT same thing happened with Tupac's estate, and as I have worked with the Shakur family in the past, I know exactly what went down. Producers I knew had done Tupac tracks and refused to give them to the Estate, saying they didn't have anything. Because they didn't want the tracks remixed and raped to hell, which is what was happening in some cases. Even Quincy "QD3" Jones III, a friend of mine, held on to an unreleased Tupac track for ages and then, just as they were about to finalize an album, he "found it", leaving them no time to remix the song, and thus it got put on the album last minute, completely in it's original form.

3. Now, here's the important part. Sony calls up the Estate and offers them 250 million for the retail selling rights to 10 albums of MJ material or whatever the deal was. Sony isn't "buying" these songs. They're buying the retail right to release them and take a cut of the profits. Specific songs are NOT a part of this deal. It's the rights in general.

4. If the Estate hands Sony 100 fake MJ songs, with the reports from these so called "Forensic Audiologists" as was written in Howard Weitzman's statement, there is nothing that Sony can do about that. Even if Sony believes these songs aren't Michael - they need to recoup. They don't care if it's not Michael, as long as the album sells. And they know even fans who realize these tracks are fake are mostly still gonna buy the album, because there's 7 other real songs on there.

[Edited 11/25/10 8:05am]

Militant said:

MOL said:

And why would Sony, a powerhouse in the business with an image to protect and develop, sign a 250 million dollar deal for fake songs?

Oh...I get it: it's a consssssssssssssssssspiracyyyyyyyyy!!! Racisssssssssssssssssssm!!!

Here's how it works:

Thanks for explaining it. I don't think a lot of people realize how it all works.

All I gotta say is bravo, Militant, bravo.

Militant said:

MOL said:

And why would Sony, a powerhouse in the business with an image to protect and develop, sign a 250 million dollar deal for fake songs?

Oh...I get it: it's a consssssssssssssssssspiracyyyyyyyyy!!! Racisssssssssssssssssssm!!!

You didn't answer my question.

And guess what? I used to be signed to Sony BMG myself. I'm very much aware of the shit they can, and would do. An image to protect and develop? Most people in the world think the songs are real anyway and wouldn't even care much even if Sony came right out and admitted the songs were fake.

And I never said ANYTHING about a conspiracy or racism, so stop putting words into my mouth.

If you believe the songs are real, you must answer the following questions:

1. Why is it ONLY the three Cascio songs that don't sound like Michael?

2. Why doesn't the vocal on "Hold My Hand", recorded in the same timeframe, sound ANYTHING like the Cascio songs?

3. Why would Darkchild and Cory Rooney say it's fake? What's their agenda?

4. Why did the Cascio's supposedly "erase" all the other vocals and claim the computers used to record the songs were destroyed?

5. Why were the songs not registered until 2 days after MJ died, and then all registered as "MJ Songbook" rather than as individual songs, as is standard industry practice?

6. Why have they obviously sampled in MJ adlibs from other songs like "Another Part Of Me" and "Earth Song"? The sampled breaths and "Dah!"s are a dead giveaway that Michael NEVER recorded a lead vocal, otherwise they'd have plenty of his adlibs from the same sessions to put in this song rather than splicing in stuff from 15 and 25 years ago.

Final point - your question about "why would Sony pay 250 million for fake songs" shows that you don't have the SLIGHTEST fucking clue about how this industry works. So let me explain this to you.

Here's how it works:

1. Michael dies

2. MJ's estate now legally owns the RIGHTS to all unreleased material. But that doesn't mean they PHYSICALLY own copies or master reels of ANYTHING. But, basically, if any producers have unreleased MJ stuff lying around, his Estate now own that. If the estate knows who has this material and ask for it, they are legally entitled to take it. If there's material lying around that the Estate doesn't know about, then it can't get released because they don't physically have a master to work with. THIS is why John McClain was "calling around producers" looking for material as was written in that one article. The EXACT same thing happened with Tupac's estate, and as I have worked with the Shakur family in the past, I know exactly what went down. Producers I knew had done Tupac tracks and refused to give them to the Estate, saying they didn't have anything. Because they didn't want the tracks remixed and raped to hell, which is what was happening in some cases. Even Quincy "QD3" Jones III, a friend of mine, held on to an unreleased Tupac track for ages and then, just as they were about to finalize an album, he "found it", leaving them no time to remix the song, and thus it got put on the album last minute, completely in it's original form.

3. Now, here's the important part. Sony calls up the Estate and offers them 250 million for the retail selling rights to 10 albums of MJ material or whatever the deal was. Sony isn't "buying" these songs. They're buying the retail right to release them and take a cut of the profits. Specific songs are NOT a part of this deal. It's the rights in general.

4. If the Estate hands Sony 100 fake MJ songs, with the reports from these so called "Forensic Audiologists" as was written in Howard Weitzman's statement, there is nothing that Sony can do about that. Even if Sony believes these songs aren't Michael - they need to recoup. They don't care if it's not Michael, as long as the album sells. And they know even fans who realize these tracks are fake are mostly still gonna buy the album, because there's 7 other real songs on there.

[Edited 11/25/10 8:05am]

But who gets the short end of the stick, when it comes to record deals? The artist. If the artist owns unreleased material, but don't own the masters, and if they released material through the record company, the company get a cut of the profit. Therefore, who stands to gain, and who stands to lose. Also, if I'm correct, record companies have been know to renege on deals. For example, they make a deal with the artist to return their masters by this date and year, but never gives them back.

Well said, Militant.

For once, The Jacksons are right. But unlike Sony and The Cascios, they as usual, are doing a shitty job presenting their case to the public.

Sony does NOT have access to all the unreleased material ..right ?

Militant said:

MOL said:

And why would Sony, a powerhouse in the business with an image to protect and develop, sign a 250 million dollar deal for fake songs?

Oh...I get it: it's a consssssssssssssssssspiracyyyyyyyyy!!! Racisssssssssssssssssssm!!!

You didn't answer my question.

And guess what? I used to be signed to Sony BMG myself. I'm very much aware of the shit they can, and would do. An image to protect and develop? Most people in the world think the songs are real anyway and wouldn't even care much even if Sony came right out and admitted the songs were fake.

And I never said ANYTHING about a conspiracy or racism, so stop putting words into my mouth.

If you believe the songs are real, you must answer the following questions:

1. Why is it ONLY the three Cascio songs that don't sound like Michael?

2. Why doesn't the vocal on "Hold My Hand", recorded in the same timeframe, sound ANYTHING like the Cascio songs?

3. Why would Darkchild and Cory Rooney say it's fake? What's their agenda?

4. Why did the Cascio's supposedly "erase" all the other vocals and claim the computers used to record the songs were destroyed?

5. Why were the songs not registered until 2 days after MJ died, and then all registered as "MJ Songbook" rather than as individual songs, as is standard industry practice?

6. Why have they obviously sampled in MJ adlibs from other songs like "Another Part Of Me" and "Earth Song"? The sampled breaths and "Dah!"s are a dead giveaway that Michael NEVER recorded a lead vocal, otherwise they'd have plenty of his adlibs from the same sessions to put in this song rather than splicing in stuff from 15 and 25 years ago.

Final point - your question about "why would Sony pay 250 million for fake songs" shows that you don't have the SLIGHTEST fucking clue about how this industry works. So let me explain this to you.

Here's how it works:

1. Michael dies

2. MJ's estate now legally owns the RIGHTS to all unreleased material. But that doesn't mean they PHYSICALLY own copies or master reels of ANYTHING. But, basically, if any producers have unreleased MJ stuff lying around, his Estate now own that. If the estate knows who has this material and ask for it, they are legally entitled to take it. If there's material lying around that the Estate doesn't know about, then it can't get released because they don't physically have a master to work with. THIS is why John McClain was "calling around producers" looking for material as was written in that one article. The EXACT same thing happened with Tupac's estate, and as I have worked with the Shakur family in the past, I know exactly what went down. Producers I knew had done Tupac tracks and refused to give them to the Estate, saying they didn't have anything. Because they didn't want the tracks remixed and raped to hell, which is what was happening in some cases. Even Quincy "QD3" Jones III, a friend of mine, held on to an unreleased Tupac track for ages and then, just as they were about to finalize an album, he "found it", leaving them no time to remix the song, and thus it got put on the album last minute, completely in it's original form.

3. Now, here's the important part. Sony calls up the Estate and offers them 250 million for the retail selling rights to 10 albums of MJ material or whatever the deal was. Sony isn't "buying" these songs. They're buying the retail right to release them and take a cut of the profits. Specific songs are NOT a part of this deal. It's the rights in general.

4. If the Estate hands Sony 100 fake MJ songs, with the reports from these so called "Forensic Audiologists" as was written in Howard Weitzman's statement, there is nothing that Sony can do about that. Even if Sony believes these songs aren't Michael - they need to recoup. They don't care if it's not Michael, as long as the album sells. And they know even fans who realize these tracks are fake are mostly still gonna buy the album, because there's 7 other real songs on there.

[Edited 11/25/10 8:05am]

Well done, Militant. Couldn't said that better myself.

Got my Visions today. Haven´t seen the whole thing yet though, but I´ve noticed there´s a different ending to the WYBT video. Are there any other changes?

MOL said:

Militant said:

/\ OK, so what's Cory Rooney's agenda? What's Darkchild's agenda?

And why would Sony, a powerhouse in the business with an image to protect and develop, sign a 250 million dollar deal for fake songs?

Oh...I get it: it's a consssssssssssssssssspiracyyyyyyyyy!!! Racisssssssssssssssssssm!!!

Oh i dunno. Maybe they're putting a bit of water in the vodka. Sure it'll last a bit longer but wouldn't make it legit vodka though.

Or just read Militants more detailed explanation.

[Edited 11/25/10 10:12am]

Militant said:

5. Why were the songs not registered until 2 days after MJ died, and then all registered as "MJ Songbook" rather than as individual songs, as is standard industry practice?

You know what fascinates me? That those people who claim to be his "adopted" family can think business two days after his death while me (a simple fan) was still in utter shock walking soullessly this earth asking "WHAT?????? HOW??????? WHAT???????" with tears flooding. The only business I would struggle to care about at such a time would be to organize the funeral.

seeingvoices12 said:

Sony does NOT have access to all the unreleased material ..right ?

I don't believe so.

It's funny some people in here wants to suck corporations' dicks. But that's OK because they're "protecting the legacy". Right.

Militant said:

MOL said:

And why would Sony, a powerhouse in the business with an image to protect and develop, sign a 250 million dollar deal for fake songs?

Oh...I get it: it's a consssssssssssssssssspiracyyyyyyyyy!!! Racisssssssssssssssssssm!!!

You didn't answer my question.

And guess what? I used to be signed to Sony BMG myself. I'm very much aware of the shit they can, and would do. An image to protect and develop? Most people in the world think the songs are real anyway and wouldn't even care much even if Sony came right out and admitted the songs were fake.

And I never said ANYTHING about a conspiracy or racism, so stop putting words into my mouth.

If you believe the songs are real, you must answer the following questions:

1. Why is it ONLY the three Cascio songs that don't sound like Michael?

2. Why doesn't the vocal on "Hold My Hand", recorded in the same timeframe, sound ANYTHING like the Cascio songs?

3. Why would Darkchild and Cory Rooney say it's fake? What's their agenda?

4. Why did the Cascio's supposedly "erase" all the other vocals and claim the computers used to record the songs were destroyed?

5. Why were the songs not registered until 2 days after MJ died, and then all registered as "MJ Songbook" rather than as individual songs, as is standard industry practice?

6. Why have they obviously sampled in MJ adlibs from other songs like "Another Part Of Me" and "Earth Song"? The sampled breaths and "Dah!"s are a dead giveaway that Michael NEVER recorded a lead vocal, otherwise they'd have plenty of his adlibs from the same sessions to put in this song rather than splicing in stuff from 15 and 25 years ago.

Final point - your question about "why would Sony pay 250 million for fake songs" shows that you don't have the SLIGHTEST fucking clue about how this industry works. So let me explain this to you.

Here's how it works:

1. Michael dies

2. MJ's estate now legally owns the RIGHTS to all unreleased material. But that doesn't mean they PHYSICALLY own copies or master reels of ANYTHING. But, basically, if any producers have unreleased MJ stuff lying around, his Estate now own that. If the estate knows who has this material and ask for it, they are legally entitled to take it. If there's material lying around that the Estate doesn't know about, then it can't get released because they don't physically have a master to work with. THIS is why John McClain was "calling around producers" looking for material as was written in that one article. The EXACT same thing happened with Tupac's estate, and as I have worked with the Shakur family in the past, I know exactly what went down. Producers I knew had done Tupac tracks and refused to give them to the Estate, saying they didn't have anything. Because they didn't want the tracks remixed and raped to hell, which is what was happening in some cases. Even Quincy "QD3" Jones III, a friend of mine, held on to an unreleased Tupac track for ages and then, just as they were about to finalize an album, he "found it", leaving them no time to remix the song, and thus it got put on the album last minute, completely in it's original form.

3. Now, here's the important part. Sony calls up the Estate and offers them 250 million for the retail selling rights to 10 albums of MJ material or whatever the deal was. Sony isn't "buying" these songs. They're buying the retail right to release them and take a cut of the profits. Specific songs are NOT a part of this deal. It's the rights in general.

4. If the Estate hands Sony 100 fake MJ songs, with the reports from these so called "Forensic Audiologists" as was written in Howard Weitzman's statement, there is nothing that Sony can do about that. Even if Sony believes these songs aren't Michael - they need to recoup. They don't care if it's not Michael, as long as the album sells. And they know even fans who realize these tracks are fake are mostly still gonna buy the album, because there's 7 other real songs on there.

[Edited 11/25/10 8:05am]

[img:$uid]http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k524/Ali-23/applausegif.gif[/img:$uid]

Really cute story!

.................................

Being an extra for "HOLD MY HAND"

Is this Mike,or a double?

[img:$uid]http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k524/Ali-23/mj1206.jpg[/img:$uid]

When I first looked at this pic it didnt look much like Mike to me,the hair and the color of the skin were abit off IMO!

The hair looked more like the hair he wore in the 90's,instead of the Bad era.

I noticed there was a stunt double in the background,and I dont really understand why you would need a stunt double for Smooth Criminal.

I looked at the man's hands and realized they looked alot like Michael's did back then,and the way the man sat looked alot like Mike aswell.

His skin probably only looked that way because of the lighting.

And know one really knows what his hair looked like in the filming of SC,because it was covered with a hat the whole time.

A friend pointed out to me that he was being hooked up tp something,and figured it must be what they used to pull off "the lean".

Because as far as I know,the special shoes were not made until the 90's.

I always wondered how they did it back then,now I guess I kinda know!

Not going to get into any debate over if it is him on the tracks or not - I think people know where I stand and I respect those with a different opinion. I will also respect the truth when it comes out.

Just a clarification question more for my own education:

If an artist wants to register songs is it an immediate process. In that if I was to register a song today with the body in question would it appear as being registered on todays date?

Thanks to anyone who can answer it.

Well said Militant. I've read the 'For The Record' book and there's quite a long list of unreleased MJ songs. I know some were included on the 'Ultimate Collection' and the remasters of the Thriller & Bad albums but atleast fans would be certain they are really MJ songs. I'm guessing there's still MJ songs in Motown's vault which have yet to be released too.

Here's some of the songs they could have made an album of, although I'm guessing most MJ fans have heard them already:

Work That Body

Xscape

Serious Effect with LL

We Be Ballin with Shaq & Cube

A Place with No Name

Carousel (full version)

Hot Street

If You Don't Love Me

She Got It

Niteline

Trouble

Shout

If they included demo versions as bonus tracks:

Love Never Felt So Good

There Must Be More To Life Than This

Ok so maybe someone like Militant or Bboy can assist but in doing some digging around on the Library of Congress site it states that it can take anywhere from 6 months to a year to formally register anything.

So does that mean that the date the songs were "registered" was likely to be 6 months after they were submitted?

Here is what I found

How long does the registration process take, and when will I receive my certificate?
The time the Copyright Office requires to process an application varies, depending on the number of applications the Office is receiving and clearing at the time of submission and the extent of questions associated with the application. Current processing times are:

Processing Time for e-Filing: Most online filers should receive a certificate within six months. Many will receive their certificates earlier.

Processing Time for Form CO and Paper Forms: Most of those who file on these forms should receive a certificate within 26 months of submission. Many will receive their certificates earlier.

Note: Whatever time is needed to issue a certificate, the effective date of registration is the day the Copyright Office receives a complete submission in acceptable form. You do not need to wait for a certificate to proceed with publication.

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-what.html#certificate

Nice review though I couldn't quite decipher the French. Thanks.

^^ Paragraphs are your friend.

LOL at Sony not bothering to remaster or put the videos into their correct ratios LOL for "vision".

I still hope for a blu ray release, but I was never keen on it anyway.

Roger Friedman telling Quincy Jones the Cascio tracks are really all Michael's voice LOL. Sony must be paying him to say that shit.

I knew Sony would fuck this up. Would of probably been much better if the estate went with Universal, Warners or whomever. We know they are gonna just reissue "Off the wall", "Bad" and "dangerous" yet again just to flog some bonus tracks. That would not of happened if Sony wouldn't of got the deal. Such a shame.

Mature Michael....I love it....so sweet