Militant said:

Fiona01 said:

Both Breaking News and KYHU are obviously Mike.

A lot of fans have just gotten whipped up into a frenzy by the power of suggestion. I swear half of these people aren't actually properly listening to these songs.

There is only one person who can sing like that. And it's Michael Joseph Jackson.

Look, you're entitled to your opinion but I've been listening to MJ damn near every day of my life since 1989.

It doesn't sound a thing like him. It's not the tonality as much as it's the pronunciation. The way he sings his own name doesn't sound like him. And the "OBITUARAAAYYYYYYYY" is just not MJ's style. It's more boyband style. Then there's that weak-ass vibrato that sounds exactly like Jason Malachi's and nothing like any known MJ vibrato on any song. Then, on top of that, you've got blatantly sampled breaths and adlibs from all kinds of other MJ songs. Honestly, if MJ recorded lead vocals for these songs, there would be adlibs from these very songs that they could have copy and pasted. But they resorted to using ones from other songs. Doesn't that raise a red flag to you? Don't the sampled "Earth Song" adlibs on KYHU make you realize that the people behind these tracks have no fucking idea what they are doing and think they can get away with augmenting these songs with imposter vocals? Plus, we know James Porte is on the song. I only hear two voices on this song - MJ, but mostly fake imposter MJ. I don't hear a third voice.

As for the power of suggestion, nah. I laughed it off when the family were saying the songs were fake. I defended Sony and the Cascio's. THEN the song came out and I realized they were right.

I mean, you've got Randy, 3T, Rodney Jerkins, Cory Rooney, Latoya and over 50% of the fanbase as per MJJC forums saying it's not MJ. Then you've got something like 10% of the fanbase who aren't sure, which I count on to the 50% solely because there's NEVER been an MJ song before where there was even ANY doubt that it was him. So 40% of the fanbase, Teddy Riley and Sony say it's real.

I'm upset about this whole thing, but I've come to the conclusion that nothing is going to be done about it. I'm not cancelling my pre-order, and I'm still supporting the album for the other 7 songs. Truth be told, I don't think BN or KYHU are bad songs, but the whole history behind them and the bad copy and paste job with the adlibs, plus the parts of the vocals that are obviously not MJ, just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. MJ would not have wanted it this way.

Sony and the Cascio's can talk about hiring audio forensics experts all they want and having tapes of what was going on in the studio, but unless they publically release the results and the tapes actually have Michael singing on them, then it's all just hot air. For the record, I'm sitting in a million pound recording studio right now finishing an album that has already been picked up by a major label, and I've made my living as a professional musician since I was 16. Not that that makes my opinion worth more than anyone else's, but clearly I have to have finely tuned ears doing what I do and I acutely understand what is possible with vocal production and processing, more so than people who claim the vocals are just processed without knowing anything about vocal production and effects.

Well said and agreed.

As for people not hearing the fakeness, what can I say...most people can't even point out the bass line when listening to a song...

Like you, I've been a long time fan 1986, and a musician. Ain't no way they will fool me.

But I will support the album because Michael deserves to be on top. He is the kang, three fake songs or not.

ali23 said:

bigd74 said:

Please excuse my ignorance, but wtf are 'cascio' tracks?

I hope someone would come and explain it to you properly!

So, 'Cascio' is Eddie cascio, but i still have no idea who the fuck he is? what has he done apart from these MJ tracks? and why are we not liking him?

tangerine7 said:

Oprah’s taping another MJ show tomorrow, 11/18/2010. This time it’s about his new album and she wants Chicago area MJ fans in the audience… https://www.oprah.com/own...id=6563513 Attention Chicago Area - Michael Jackson Fans! The Oprah Winfrey Show will be talking about Michael Jackson and the release of the upcoming album "Michael." Have you always been a huge fan of Michael Jackson?? Do you own all of his albums and are intensely interested in hearing more about this new release?? Have you followed his life story and always eager to know more about Micheal?behind the scenes? If you are a huge Michael Jackson fan and would like to be in the audience for this taping on Friday, 11/19, email us now! If there is still availability, you will be contacted through email by a member of the Audience Team.

I read that Teddy Riley confirmed via twitter that he will be a part of this show. Oprah may as well rename this season as the Michael Jackson season.

TotalAlisa said:

Im still upset and angry about michael being gone...

Me too!

bigd74 said:

ali23 said:

I hope someone would come and explain it to you properly!

So, 'Cascio' is Eddie cascio, but i still have no idea who the fuck he is? what has he done apart from these MJ tracks? and why are we not liking him?

I guess because alot of us believe that the tracks he recorded arent actually MJ,

And he gave the tracks to sony anyway.

Both him and his brother Frank Casio have known Mike since they were kids.

His brother Frank used to be employed by Mike.

[img:$uid]http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k524/Ali-23/mj1184.jpg[/img:$uid]

Heres an article on Eddie from '03.

http://www.drewacorn.com/...t-1.845294

And this came from Wikipedia:

Frank Tyson (also called Frank Cascio), 23, who was Jackson's personal assistant, and allegedly threatened the accuser's younger brother, who was a witness of part of the alleged crimes. Tyson and Jackson were friends since Tyson was a small boy. Tyson's father was the concierge at a New York hotel where Jackson stayed. After the 1993 allegations, Tyson and his younger brother were seen traveling with Jackson.

I hope that helped some.

And if im wrong about something somebody please correct me!

"HMH" is off to a strong start at radio.

The song has a huge bullet at Urban AC with 500+ spins.

Total audience impressions is around 12 million:

MICHAEL JACKSON - Hold My Hand (Duet With Akon): 11.718 (+ 1.882)

ali23 said:

bigd74 said:

So, 'Cascio' is Eddie cascio, but i still have no idea who the fuck he is? what has he done apart from these MJ tracks? and why are we not liking him?

I guess because alot of us believe that the tracks he recorded arent actually MJ,

And he gave the tracks to sony anyway.

Both him and his brother Frank Casio have known Mike since they were kids.

His brother Frank used to be employed by Mike.

[img:$uid]http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k524/Ali-23/mj1184.jpg[/img:$uid]

Heres an article on Eddie from '03.

http://www.drewacorn.com/...t-1.845294

And this came from Wikipedia:

Frank Tyson (also called Frank Cascio), 23, who was Jackson's personal assistant, and allegedly threatened the accuser's younger brother, who was a witness of part of the alleged crimes. Tyson and Jackson were friends since Tyson was a small boy. Tyson's father was the concierge at a New York hotel where Jackson stayed. After the 1993 allegations, Tyson and his younger brother were seen traveling with Jackson.

I hope that helped some.

And if im wrong about something somebody please correct me!

NMuzakNSoul said:

As for people not hearing the fakeness, what can I say...most people can't even point out the bass line when listening to a song...

Like you, I've been a long time fan 1986, and a musician. Ain't no way they will fool me.

Look. I'm a musician also. Bad was the first ever album I bought with my own money. And believe me, I know my sh1t. I've learned a lot from just the chord structure to a song like "Baby Be Mine", or closely listening to the instrumentation, the keyboard bass on those songs, from a "student" point of view.

Now, I'm not saying it doesn't sound DIFFERENT, of COURSE it does. And his vocals don't really sound even close to what it was on those classics, or even on Invincible.

BUT you have to keep in mind two things. First, and I already mentioned this earlier: these tracks weren't finished records that were recorded in a professional studio using only the best equipment, under the guidance of a top producer and engineer, or by a man who was at the top of his game mentally or physically.

And two. As a "musician" you should know too, that unless you train or work your craft during a long hiatus, it's very possible that you lose your "chops". It varies a bit by instrument, but the basic principle applies.

Who knows. Maybe I'm wrong, I haven't actually listened to those tracks with the utmost scrutiny - based on what I just said, my opinion on them has been that (aside from the obvious samples and added edits from other demos/songs) it is indeed MJ, who is just sadly a shade of his former self.

SamSamba said:

NMuzakNSoul said:

As for people not hearing the fakeness, what can I say...most people can't even point out the bass line when listening to a song...

Like you, I've been a long time fan 1986, and a musician. Ain't no way they will fool me.

Look. I'm a musician also. Bad was the first ever album I bought with my own money. And believe me, I know my sh1t. I've learned a lot from just the chord structure to a song like "Baby Be Mine", or closely listening to the instrumentation, the keyboard bass on those songs, from a "student" point of view.

Now, I'm not saying it doesn't sound DIFFERENT, of COURSE it does. And his vocals don't really sound even close to what it was on those classics, or even on Invincible.

BUT you have to keep in mind two things. First, and I already mentioned this earlier: these tracks weren't finished records that were recorded in a professional studio using only the best equipment, under the guidance of a top producer and engineer, or by a man who was at the top of his game mentally or physically.

And two. As a "musician" you should know too, that unless you train or work your craft during a long hiatus, it's very possible that you lose your "chops". It varies a bit by instrument, but the basic principle applies.

Who knows. Maybe I'm wrong, I haven't actually listened to those tracks with the utmost scrutiny - based on what I just said, my opinion on them has been that (aside from the obvious samples and added edits from other demos/songs) it is indeed MJ, who is just sadly a shade of his former self.

But wasn't HMH recorded in 2007? The same year/time as the Casio tracks? and his voice sounds in pretty good shape and like MJ to me. Just sayin...

SamSamba said:

Who knows. Maybe I'm wrong, I haven't actually listened to those tracks with the utmost scrutiny - based on what I just said, my opinion on them has been that (aside from the obvious samples and added edits from other demos/songs) it is indeed MJ, who is just sadly a shade of his former self.

Did you see this is it? Michael was all the way Michael.. His voice was incredible.

SamSamba said:

BUT you have to keep in mind two things. First, and I already mentioned this earlier: these tracks weren't finished records that were recorded in a professional studio using only the best equipment, under the guidance of a top producer and engineer, or by a man who was at the top of his game mentally or physically.

See, I don't really buy this argument, because there are times when Mike is singing on home video footage.. such as Smile during Living With Michael Jackson, the court depositions where he busts out with Who Is It and The Girl Is Mine... he sounds nothing like these 3 questionable tracks.

Superstition said:

SamSamba said:

BUT you have to keep in mind two things. First, and I already mentioned this earlier: these tracks weren't finished records that were recorded in a professional studio using only the best equipment, under the guidance of a top producer and engineer, or by a man who was at the top of his game mentally or physically.

See, I don't really buy this argument, because there are times when Mike is singing on home video footage.. such as Smile during Living With Michael Jackson, the court depositions where he busts out with Who Is It and The Girl Is Mine... he sounds nothing like these 3 questionable tracks.

Another great point, but I feel you are preaching to the converted. I'm not sure any of this debate will change even one person's mind. Although I feel your need to continue discussing...

Like I said, that's just my opinion, and it's based on what I wrote above.

I'm not disputing them one way or the other.

NMuzakNSoul said:

Militant said:

Look, you're entitled to your opinion but I've been listening to MJ damn near every day of my life since 1989.

It doesn't sound a thing like him. It's not the tonality as much as it's the pronunciation. The way he sings his own name doesn't sound like him. And the "OBITUARAAAYYYYYYYY" is just not MJ's style. It's more boyband style. Then there's that weak-ass vibrato that sounds exactly like Jason Malachi's and nothing like any known MJ vibrato on any song. Then, on top of that, you've got blatantly sampled breaths and adlibs from all kinds of other MJ songs. Honestly, if MJ recorded lead vocals for these songs, there would be adlibs from these very songs that they could have copy and pasted. But they resorted to using ones from other songs. Doesn't that raise a red flag to you? Don't the sampled "Earth Song" adlibs on KYHU make you realize that the people behind these tracks have no fucking idea what they are doing and think they can get away with augmenting these songs with imposter vocals? Plus, we know James Porte is on the song. I only hear two voices on this song - MJ, but mostly fake imposter MJ. I don't hear a third voice.

As for the power of suggestion, nah. I laughed it off when the family were saying the songs were fake. I defended Sony and the Cascio's. THEN the song came out and I realized they were right.

I mean, you've got Randy, 3T, Rodney Jerkins, Cory Rooney, Latoya and over 50% of the fanbase as per MJJC forums saying it's not MJ. Then you've got something like 10% of the fanbase who aren't sure, which I count on to the 50% solely because there's NEVER been an MJ song before where there was even ANY doubt that it was him. So 40% of the fanbase, Teddy Riley and Sony say it's real.

I'm upset about this whole thing, but I've come to the conclusion that nothing is going to be done about it. I'm not cancelling my pre-order, and I'm still supporting the album for the other 7 songs. Truth be told, I don't think BN or KYHU are bad songs, but the whole history behind them and the bad copy and paste job with the adlibs, plus the parts of the vocals that are obviously not MJ, just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. MJ would not have wanted it this way.

Sony and the Cascio's can talk about hiring audio forensics experts all they want and having tapes of what was going on in the studio, but unless they publically release the results and the tapes actually have Michael singing on them, then it's all just hot air. For the record, I'm sitting in a million pound recording studio right now finishing an album that has already been picked up by a major label, and I've made my living as a professional musician since I was 16. Not that that makes my opinion worth more than anyone else's, but clearly I have to have finely tuned ears doing what I do and I acutely understand what is possible with vocal production and processing, more so than people who claim the vocals are just processed without knowing anything about vocal production and effects.

Well said and agreed.

As for people not hearing the fakeness, what can I say...most people can't even point out the bass line when listening to a song...

Like you, I've been a long time fan 1986, and a musician. Ain't no way they will fool me.

But I will support the album because Michael deserves to be on top. He is the kang, three fake songs or not.

I have been a fan since 1982,and that is NOT Michael.

It's like when you hear an artist on the radio,you don't have to have anyone tell you who it is,you just know who the voice belongs to. Same goes for when I heard Breaking News, there was an instant feeling,and knowing that it was not him.

I am still getting the album though,I want the songs that are actually Michael,and I want to ensure that there will be more releases in the future.

Hopefully Sony has learned that they can not fool the fans,and the other releases will be better orchestrated.

To say MJ is not on Keep Your Head up at all then maybe you haven't listened to MJ as much as you say.

The parts where he says..... Keeping Your Head up to the sky, we can just rise up tell me now, give me your wings so we can fly.... Thats all MJ....And the part where he says Fly Away, Fly Aaway, Fly Away

From the 2:15 mark of the song is totally Michael Jackson

Before then i think it's MJ and the guy James Porte

SamSamba said:

it's very possible that you lose your "chops". It varies a bit by instrument, but the basic principle applies.

Who knows. Maybe I'm wrong, I haven't actually listened to those tracks with the utmost scrutiny - based on what I just said, my opinion on them has been that (aside from the obvious samples and added edits from other demos/songs) it is indeed MJ, who is just sadly a shade of his former self.

As others have stated, this point might be valid if it weren't for the fact that "Hold My Hand" was recorded within the same time frame, AND was also an unfinished demo when it first leaked, and Michael sounds incredible on it.

Compared that song with "Breaking News" and "Keep Your Head Up". They are worlds apart... because it ain't him. Not on the lead vocals.

[Edited 11/19/10 10:27am]

Militant said:

SamSamba said:

it's very possible that you lose your "chops". It varies a bit by instrument, but the basic principle applies.

Who knows. Maybe I'm wrong, I haven't actually listened to those tracks with the utmost scrutiny - based on what I just said, my opinion on them has been that (aside from the obvious samples and added edits from other demos/songs) it is indeed MJ, who is just sadly a shade of his former self.

As others have stated, this point might be valid if it weren't for the fact that "Hold My Hand" was recorded within the same time frame, AND was also an unfinished demo when it first leaked, and Michael sounds incredible on it.

Compared that song with "Breaking News" and "Keep Your Head Up". They are worlds apart... because it ain't him. Not on the lead vocals.

[Edited 11/19/10 10:27am]

I agree with this

BabyBeMine said:

To say MJ is not on Keep Your Head up at all then maybe you haven't listened to MJ as much as you say.

He's on those Earth Song ad-libs that they cut and pasted on there. =3

The Earth song part is the very end of the song. But i don't understand how fans don't get why they probably did that. MJ passed away and the song was unfinished so they have to finish it.

Unless you want Sony to not release anything which they could do. They could release material from 1982 or 1988 but why promote that heavily or release it to radio stations. Then fans would complain about that.

If you want MJ music where its released to radio where you can vote for the top 9 at 9 countdowns...LOL...then it has to be new. Not 1984 finished tracks.

Majority of the new stuff is unfinished but MJ sings enough on the track for it to be a MJ song

SamSamba said:

NMuzakNSoul said:

As for people not hearing the fakeness, what can I say...most people can't even point out the bass line when listening to a song...

Like you, I've been a long time fan 1986, and a musician. Ain't no way they will fool me.

Look. I'm a musician also. Bad was the first ever album I bought with my own money. And believe me, I know my sh1t. I've learned a lot from just the chord structure to a song like "Baby Be Mine", or closely listening to the instrumentation, the keyboard bass on those songs, from a "student" point of view.

Now, I'm not saying it doesn't sound DIFFERENT, of COURSE it does. And his vocals don't really sound even close to what it was on those classics, or even on Invincible.

BUT you have to keep in mind two things. First, and I already mentioned this earlier: these tracks weren't finished records that were recorded in a professional studio using only the best equipment, under the guidance of a top producer and engineer, or by a man who was at the top of his game mentally or physically.

And two. As a "musician" you should know too, that unless you train or work your craft during a long hiatus, it's very possible that you lose your "chops". It varies a bit by instrument, but the basic principle applies.

Who knows. Maybe I'm wrong, I haven't actually listened to those tracks with the utmost scrutiny - based on what I just said, my opinion on them has been that (aside from the obvious samples and added edits from other demos/songs) it is indeed MJ, who is just sadly a shade of his former self.

Keep Your Head Up is a much more soulful track than Hold My Hand and harder to sing. Completely different styles.

Not saying its hard for MJ, but still harder than that opening to Hold My Hand.

BabyBeMine said:

The Earth song part is the very end of the song. But i don't understand how fans don't get why they probably did that. MJ passed away and the song was unfinished so they have to finish it.

Unless you want Sony to not release anything which they could do. They could release material from 1982 or 1988 but why promote that heavily or release it to radio stations. Then fans would complain about that.

If you want MJ music where its released to radio where you can vote for the top 9 at 9 countdowns...LOL...then it has to be new. Not 1984 finished tracks.

Majority of the new stuff is unfinished but MJ sings enough on the track for it to be a MJ song

Are you on a mission to convince other members that those FAKE tracks are MJs ?

And what part of " Release the songs as they are " statement you don't understand ?

BabyBeMine said:

The Earth song part is the very end of the song. But i don't understand how fans don't get why they probably did that. MJ passed away and the song was unfinished so they have to finish it.

Unless you want Sony to not release anything which they could do. They could release material from 1982 or 1988 but why promote that heavily or release it to radio stations. Then fans would complain about that.

If you want MJ music where its released to radio where you can vote for the top 9 at 9 countdowns...LOL...then it has to be new. Not 1984 finished tracks.

Majority of the new stuff is unfinished but MJ sings enough on the track for it to be a MJ song

BabyBeMine said:

Keep Your Head Up is a much more soulful track than Hold My Hand and harder to sing. Completely different styles.

Not saying its hard for MJ, but still harder than that opening to Hold My Hand.

I sort of get where you are coming from but I have everything MJ has recorded and never once have I questioned his vocals from 'I want you back' to 'We've had enough'. ECXCEPT for these 3 tracks.

The fact that others are questioning them too makes it seem like something is off surely? I'm not trying to say or convince you that you are wrong but don't you find it odd that in the history of his songs/styles/demos etc that only 3 songs have ever been questioned? And they are all Casio tracks.

EXCEPT not Ecxept! my typing sucks.

...On to other news, head over to MichaelJackson.com to see the FULL HQ video to One More Chance

NaughtyKitty said:

tangerine7 said:

Oprah’s taping another MJ show tomorrow, 11/18/2010. This time it’s about his new album and she wants Chicago area MJ fans in the audience… https://www.oprah.com/own...id=6563513 Attention Chicago Area - Michael Jackson Fans! The Oprah Winfrey Show will be talking about Michael Jackson and the release of the upcoming album "Michael." Have you always been a huge fan of Michael Jackson?? Do you own all of his albums and are intensely interested in hearing more about this new release?? Have you followed his life story and always eager to know more about Micheal?behind the scenes? If you are a huge Michael Jackson fan and would like to be in the audience for this taping on Friday, 11/19, email us now! If there is still availability, you will be contacted through email by a member of the Audience Team.

I read that Teddy Riley confirmed via twitter that he will be a part of this show. Oprah may as well rename this season as the Michael Jackson season.

Oh riley.. 0_o

Might as well be The Michael Jackson season.

BabyBeMine said:

The Earth song part is the very end of the song. But i don't understand how fans don't get why they probably did that. MJ passed away and the song was unfinished so they have to finish it.

Unless you want Sony to not release anything which they could do. They could release material from 1982 or 1988 but why promote that heavily or release it to radio stations. Then fans would complain about that.

If you want MJ music where its released to radio where you can vote for the top 9 at 9 countdowns...LOL...then it has to be new. Not 1984 finished tracks.

Majority of the new stuff is unfinished but MJ sings enough on the track for it to be a MJ song

lolno They wouldn't have to cut and paste adlibs if they were using his vocals in the first place. Plus, the only people who want MJ's music to be featured in the top 10 is Sony. Fans just want the songs that weren't released.

Though as long as Mj is featured somewhere in there it's now considered a MJ song? Even if it's some cut and paste ad-libs?

Unholyalliance said:

BabyBeMine said:

The Earth song part is the very end of the song. But i don't understand how fans don't get why they probably did that. MJ passed away and the song was unfinished so they have to finish it.

Unless you want Sony to not release anything which they could do. They could release material from 1982 or 1988 but why promote that heavily or release it to radio stations. Then fans would complain about that.

If you want MJ music where its released to radio where you can vote for the top 9 at 9 countdowns...LOL...then it has to be new. Not 1984 finished tracks.

Majority of the new stuff is unfinished but MJ sings enough on the track for it to be a MJ song

lolno They wouldn't have to cut and paste adlibs if they were using his vocals in the first place. Plus, the only people who want MJ's music to be featured in the top 10 is Sony. Fans just want the songs that weren't released.

Though as long as Mj is featured somewhere in there it's now considered a MJ song? Even if it's some cut and paste ad-libs?