I have a lot of respect for Jay-Z for what he's been able to accomplish. But as good of an MC he has been in the past, it's important to remember that he had the best timing of any MC in hip-hop history.

He was able to develop and learn under the radar during hip-hop's Golden Age(s). Then, when 'Pac and B.I.G. went down, he endured and waited for most of the heirs apparent to fall off, made the right moves, and when the dust settled, he was most competent of the crossover MCs, bet on the right producers at the right time (Swizz, 'Ye, Just Blaze, etc.) and apparently has developed into the media's go-to spokesman for what's left of hip-hop these days. Made some pretty hot music for a while, too.

Gotta give it up for the business, man. Nobody saw this coming for him.

Well Jay, isn't that the pot calling the kettle black???

Jay needs to shut the f*ck up and be grateful that Beyonce hasn't rolled over in bed and screamed in horror at what she married yet! He was cool being a trifling shit rapper when it lined his pockets and now he feels others should take a different path. pop Beyonce's tit back in yo' mouth and shut up ya big baby!

namepeace said:

Today's hip-hop lacks one thing.

Intelligence.

Listen to MCs of all stripes during its Golden Age(s). No matter what the subject, they were articulate, and fully capable of speaking in complete sentences, no matter what their subject matter was. Today's group of mishmouths can't be trusted to put together one sentence. Artist license is one thing. Artist illiteracy is quite another.

As D.O.C. once called it, Rhythmic American Poetry depends on people who can express themselves clearly or at least creatively. These new cats can't do it.

Timmy84 said:

namepeace said:

I have a lot of respect for Jay-Z for what he's been able to accomplish. But as good of an MC he has been in the past, it's important to remember that he had the best timing of any MC in hip-hop history.

He was able to develop and learn under the radar during hip-hop's Golden Age(s). Then, when 'Pac and B.I.G. went down, he endured and waited for most of the heirs apparent to fall off, made the right moves, and when the dust settled, he was most competent of the crossover MCs, bet on the right producers at the right time (Swizz, 'Ye, Just Blaze, etc.) and apparently has developed into the media's go-to spokesman for what's left of hip-hop these days. Made some pretty hot music for a while, too.

Gotta give it up for the business, man. Nobody saw this coming for him.

Jay-Z dumbed down his lyrics to make bank, plain and simple. He definitely started out with artistic integrity but that wasn't enough for him. When it all became about hoes & cash for him he lost the right to critique any rappers content. If he's serious about this statement now then he should apologize for helping to initiate the movement of ignorance and excess in hip hop that still rules today.

namepeace said:

namepeace said:

I have a lot of respect for Jay-Z for what he's been able to accomplish. But as good of an MC he has been in the past, it's important to remember that he had the best timing of any MC in hip-hop history.

He was able to develop and learn under the radar during hip-hop's Golden Age(s). Then, when 'Pac and B.I.G. went down, he endured and waited for most of the heirs apparent to fall off, made the right moves, and when the dust settled, he was most competent of the crossover MCs, bet on the right producers at the right time (Swizz, 'Ye, Just Blaze, etc.) and apparently has developed into the media's go-to spokesman for what's left of hip-hop these days. Made some pretty hot music for a while, too.

Gotta give it up for the business, man. Nobody saw this coming for him.

I love intelligent and well-balanced posts like these.

HonestMan13 said:

namepeace said:

I have a lot of respect for Jay-Z for what he's been able to accomplish. But as good of an MC he has been in the past, it's important to remember that he had the best timing of any MC in hip-hop history.

He was able to develop and learn under the radar during hip-hop's Golden Age(s). Then, when 'Pac and B.I.G. went down, he endured and waited for most of the heirs apparent to fall off, made the right moves, and when the dust settled, he was most competent of the crossover MCs, bet on the right producers at the right time (Swizz, 'Ye, Just Blaze, etc.) and apparently has developed into the media's go-to spokesman for what's left of hip-hop these days. Made some pretty hot music for a while, too.

Gotta give it up for the business, man. Nobody saw this coming for him.

Jay-Z dumbed down his lyrics to make bank, plain and simple. He definitely started out with artistic integrity but that wasn't enough for him. When it all became about hoes & cash for him he lost the right to critique any rappers content. If he's serious about this statement now then he should apologize for helping to initiate the movement of ignorance and excess in hip hop that still rules today.

Actually from the Black Album era and subsequent albums after that, he has been much more than that: When it all became about hoes & cash for him. Secondly, it's not that he is dissing that kind of lyrical content.

And those things have been apart of hip hop since its inception. So that's not it either. Let's not glorify that old school music of the genre now. And finally, he is right. Because everyone jumps on a fad and instead having their own style, they do what is popular. Not just in content, but in cadence, flow and delivery.

paisleypark4 said:

Timmy84 said:

OH MY GOD that is what I was doing as I was reading this hahahahaha

Hahaha it's all bullshit ain't it? The person who did "Money Cash Hoes" gonna talk about a genre lacking emotion. I mean I've heard his stuff, he's diverse but it seems his flow's lazy to me when he does talk about other issues.

[Edited 10/27/10 18:18pm]

namepeace said:

I have a lot of respect for Jay-Z for what he's been able to accomplish. But as good of an MC he has been in the past, it's important to remember that he had the best timing of any MC in hip-hop history.

He was able to develop and learn under the radar during hip-hop's Golden Age(s). Then, when 'Pac and B.I.G. went down, he endured and waited for most of the heirs apparent to fall off, made the right moves, and when the dust settled, he was most competent of the crossover MCs, bet on the right producers at the right time (Swizz, 'Ye, Just Blaze, etc.) and apparently has developed into the media's go-to spokesman for what's left of hip-hop these days. Made some pretty hot music for a while, too.

Gotta give it up for the business, man. Nobody saw this coming for him.

Jay-Z stans would agree with you.

But real music fans like myself will correct you in saying that (secert societies connections aside.... ) not all of Jay-Z allbums were great. From what I notice with my own ears, only Reasonable Doubts, Vol.2: Hard Knock Life, & The Black Album are still worth listening to without pressing the skip buttom much.

And before you say anything positive about The Blueprint Vol. 1, I'm still convince THAT is one of the most overrated hip-hop/rap albums ever. How THIS album ended up being consider a hip-hop/rap standard anywhere outside of the east coast is beyond me.

Cinnie said:

Jigga copied that idea from Uncle L.

Just saying.

Cinnie said:

OOOOOH you're Kung Fu is strong, Grasshopper

Mines is stronger

Thats the clean version tooo....

TonyVanDam said:

Cinnie said:

Jigga copied that idea from Uncle L.

Just saying.

how have I never seen this video????????

HonestMan13 said:

namepeace said:

I have a lot of respect for Jay-Z for what he's been able to accomplish. But as good of an MC he has been in the past, it's important to remember that he had the best timing of any MC in hip-hop history.

He was able to develop and learn under the radar during hip-hop's Golden Age(s). Then, when 'Pac and B.I.G. went down, he endured and waited for most of the heirs apparent to fall off, made the right moves, and when the dust settled, he was most competent of the crossover MCs, bet on the right producers at the right time (Swizz, 'Ye, Just Blaze, etc.) and apparently has developed into the media's go-to spokesman for what's left of hip-hop these days. Made some pretty hot music for a while, too.

Gotta give it up for the business, man. Nobody saw this coming for him.

Jay-Z dumbed down his lyrics to make bank, plain and simple. He definitely started out with artistic integrity but that wasn't enough for him. When it all became about hoes & cash for him he lost the right to critique any rappers content. If he's serious about this statement now then he should apologize for helping to initiate the movement of ignorance and excess in hip hop that still rules today.

Well, NWA, Dre, 'Pac, Biggie, and Raekwon could get in line for some of that blame. They among others glamorized the themes you speak of before Reasonable Doubt even dropped. Not saying Jay-Z didn't capitalize on the void left after Big and Pac left us, that was a big part of what I was saying. But the groundwork for the problems you RIGHTLY complain about was laid LONG before Jay-Z. Not saying that you're wrong, but you should request apologies from several other folks before you even get to Jigga.

Shawn's not actually the first one to say this but I guess for someone who can still sell records, that gives him a right for a platform?

It's interesting how dude struggled to get going for ten years before BIG scooped him up. Just saying lol

Props for him saying what some of us were saying but until you actually contribute to helping the change, it's like that old saying, talking loud and saying nothing.

But we'll see what Shawn does when he gets his Roc Nation off the ground.

Timmy84 said:

namepeace said:

HonestMan13 said:

Jay-Z dumbed down his lyrics to make bank, plain and simple. He definitely started out with artistic integrity but that wasn't enough for him. When it all became about hoes & cash for him he lost the right to critique any rappers content. If he's serious about this statement now then he should apologize for helping to initiate the movement of ignorance and excess in hip hop that still rules today.

Well, NWA, Dre, 'Pac, Biggie, and Raekwon could get in line for some of that blame. They among others glamorized the themes you speak of before Reasonable Doubt even dropped. Not saying Jay-Z didn't capitalize on the void left after Big and Pac left us, that was a big part of what I was saying. But the groundwork for the problems you RIGHTLY complain about was laid LONG before Jay-Z. Not saying that you're wrong, but you should request apologies from several other folks before you even get to Jigga.

The only problem with that is that Jay-Z is the only one back pedaling on what got him where he is today! No one else is making these hypocritical statements but him. Most rap dudes know what buttered their bread and they're keeping their mouths shut to how distatsteful or "emotionless" it was. Rappers today know they're playing themselves for bank but they'd never admit it, even before God! Jay-Z when he was at Def Jam was in a position to bring back what he claims hip hop is missing now but he didn't. If anything more talented and thought driven rappers got shafted by him for no apparent reason.

TonyVanDam said:

namepeace said:

I have a lot of respect for Jay-Z for what he's been able to accomplish. But as good of an MC he has been in the past, it's important to remember that he had the best timing of any MC in hip-hop history.

He was able to develop and learn under the radar during hip-hop's Golden Age(s). Then, when 'Pac and B.I.G. went down, he endured and waited for most of the heirs apparent to fall off, made the right moves, and when the dust settled, he was most competent of the crossover MCs, bet on the right producers at the right time (Swizz, 'Ye, Just Blaze, etc.) and apparently has developed into the media's go-to spokesman for what's left of hip-hop these days. Made some pretty hot music for a while, too.

Gotta give it up for the business, man. Nobody saw this coming for him.

Jay-Z stans would agree with you.

But real music fans like myself will correct you in saying that (secert societies connections aside.... ) not all of Jay-Z allbums were great. From what I notice with my own ears, only Reasonable Doubts, Vol.2: Hard Knock Life, & The Black Album are still worth listening to without pressing the skip buttom much.

And before you say anything positive about The Blueprint Vol. 1, I'm still convince THAT is one of the most overrated hip-hop/rap albums ever. How THIS album ended up being consider a hip-hop/rap standard anywhere outside of the east coast is beyond me.

Well, I am far from a stan but overall, I agree with the poster who you are responding to. The point you bolded that is. But like you said, it's your ear. I will say this though, you make a point that was interesting in your last sentence. I think that's part of "The Golden Era's" charm. Everyone "rep" their hood and they had their own sound. You knew East Coast Artists, specifically NYC artists when you heard them, you knew West Coast artists when you hearn them and the same with the South and even the Midwest. Nowadays, there isn't a distinctiveness and uniqueness anymore.

Not to say that you can't appreciate an artist's work no matter where they are from, but I think that's part of what Jay is talking about really. So many artists who trying so hard in being commerically appeal that there isn't a distinctiveness that hip hop needs in order to continue to thrive.

paisleypark4 said:

Timmy84 said:

Hahaha it's all bullshit ain't it? The person who did "Money Cash Hoes" gonna talk about a genre lacking emotion. I mean I've heard his stuff, he's diverse but it seems his flow's lazy to me when he does talk about other issues.

[Edited 10/27/10 18:18pm]

I have all of his albums..id say at least seventy five to eighty percent of the time he is talking about himself...but not as an open third looker on himself like eminem...but just about how he is the top rapper in the game.

That's the golden rule of Hip Hop, pretty much. That's how the genre was built. Can't blame him for that.

This guy is the reason why there is so much shit hop about. The only rapper whose not on about hoes, cars, bling, shooting people, drugs and ego 100% of the time is Kanye West, he only raps about it 57% of the time.

I mean songs like 99 Problems and a bitch ain't one of them, this guy sounds like hes trying to be Jessie Jackson, we forget he used to be a pusher in his teens.

TonyVanDam said:

namepeace said:

I have a lot of respect for Jay-Z for what he's been able to accomplish. But as good of an MC he has been in the past, it's important to remember that he had the best timing of any MC in hip-hop history.

He was able to develop and learn under the radar during hip-hop's Golden Age(s). Then, when 'Pac and B.I.G. went down, he endured and waited for most of the heirs apparent to fall off, made the right moves, and when the dust settled, he was most competent of the crossover MCs, bet on the right producers at the right time (Swizz, 'Ye, Just Blaze, etc.) and apparently has developed into the media's go-to spokesman for what's left of hip-hop these days. Made some pretty hot music for a while, too.

Gotta give it up for the business, man. Nobody saw this coming for him.

Jay-Z stans would agree with you.

But real music fans like myself will correct you in saying that (secert societies connections aside.... ) not all of Jay-Z allbums were great. From what I notice with my own ears, only Reasonable Doubts, Vol.2: Hard Knock Life, & The Black Album are still worth listening to without pressing the skip buttom much.

And before you say anything positive about The Blueprint Vol. 1, I'm still convince THAT is one of the most overrated hip-hop/rap albums ever. How THIS album ended up being consider a hip-hop/rap standard anywhere outside of the east coast is beyond me.

you agree with me because you basically expressed my opinion of his music. after TBA I was pretty much done, other than "On To The Next One," "Thank You," and that "Ultra" mixtape joint he dropped this year.

I fail to see that any correction was even necessary, "real music fan." (psst . . . so am I). You just read way too much into what I was saying.

He's a good MC who made himself into a far greater star than anyone ever thought he could be, and he's been able to distinguish himself by way of comparison with what passes for an MC these days. I have to respect that even if I think he's been coasting ever since un-retirement.

[Edited 10/29/10 9:07am]

[Edited 10/29/10 9:09am]

HonestMan13 said:

namepeace said:

The only problem with that is that Jay-Z is the only one back pedaling on what got him where he is today! No one else is making these hypocritical statements but him. Most rap dudes know what buttered their bread and they're keeping their mouths shut to how distatsteful or "emotionless" it was. Rappers today know they're playing themselves for bank but they'd never admit it, even before God! Jay-Z when he was at Def Jam was in a position to bring back what he claims hip hop is missing now but he didn't. If anything more talented and thought driven rappers got shafted by him for no apparent reason.

Sure, all you've said above is legit.

But the fact of the matter is, other than Big and Pac, who can't speak for themselves at this point, the cats I mentioned still laid the groundwork for what hip-hop (hit-pop) is today. Jay-Z's current hypocrisy, such as it is, doesn't change that.

namepeace said:

TonyVanDam said:

Jay-Z stans would agree with you.

But real music fans like myself will correct you in saying that (secert societies connections aside.... ) not all of Jay-Z allbums were great. From what I notice with my own ears, only Reasonable Doubts, Vol.2: Hard Knock Life, & The Black Album are still worth listening to without pressing the skip buttom much.

And before you say anything positive about The Blueprint Vol. 1, I'm still convince THAT is one of the most overrated hip-hop/rap albums ever. How THIS album ended up being consider a hip-hop/rap standard anywhere outside of the east coast is beyond me.

you agree with me because you basically expressed my opinion of his music. after TBA I was pretty much done, other than "On To The Next One," "Thank You," and that "Ultra" mixtape joint he dropped this year.

I fail to see that any correction was even necessary, "real music fan." (psst . . . so am I). You just read way too much into what I was saying.

He's a good MC who made himself into a far greater star than anyone ever thought he could be, and he's been able to distinguish himself by way of comparison with what passes for an MC these days. I have to respect that even if I think he's been coasting ever since un-retirement.

[Edited 10/29/10 9:07am]

[Edited 10/29/10 9:09am]

I think Jay's success was he was at the right place at the right time. That's all. I think it was kinda expected in one sense he'd be popular. Of course to some who knew him coming up with Jaz-O and Kane they probably didn't think he would I guess. Then again I guess it was expected.

Timmy84 said:

namepeace said:

you agree with me because you basically expressed my opinion of his music. after TBA I was pretty much done, other than "On To The Next One," "Thank You," and that "Ultra" mixtape joint he dropped this year.

I fail to see that any correction was even necessary, "real music fan." (psst . . . so am I). You just read way too much into what I was saying.

He's a good MC who made himself into a far greater star than anyone ever thought he could be, and he's been able to distinguish himself by way of comparison with what passes for an MC these days. I have to respect that even if I think he's been coasting ever since un-retirement.

[Edited 10/29/10 9:07am]

[Edited 10/29/10 9:09am]

I think Jay's success was he was at the right place at the right time. That's all. I think it was kinda expected in one sense he'd be popular. Of course to some who knew him coming up with Jaz-O and Kane they probably didn't think he would I guess. Then again I guess it was expected.

I pretty much agree. I remember him on the Jaz to Your Soul album once it was pointed out to me that was him. But I considered him to be kind of an outside-looking-in cat. Biggie's and Pac's death changed everything. He was able to step into Biggie's void. His artistic track record and his success are distinct. He's a better self-promoter and businessman than he is a rapper. He capitalized on his rap career more than just about any artist in hip-hop history.

No one thought he'd be a household name 20 years ago.

Marrying Beyonce helped a bit with that too, I suppose.