PatrickS77 said:

midiscover said:

The Hot 100 is considered the Pop chart....

I realize that some people do consider it as the pop chart... but technically they are wrong! It is not the pop chart, it's just the main chart, which combines all the subcategories and thus includes all the different musical genres.

I'm not so sure about that. "Pop" comes from the word popular and the Hot 100 are songs that are most popular. You'll find songs of many genre on there too. Pop isnt easily defined. It's a fluid genre that really just means "popular"

Obviously Pop comes from popular, but the number 1 song on the Modern Rock chart is also the most popular (in that genre) and still it's not the pop chart... same for the number one of the Rnb, country or whatever charts...

All I wanna say is that Janet's success on the main chart still doesn't tell too much about her audience. People get too hung up on those categories.

Oh I see. I didn't know your response was in relation to what people were guessing about Janet's audience.

PatrickS77 said:

midiscover said:

The Hot 100 is considered the Pop chart....

I realize that some people do consider it as the pop chart... but technically they are wrong! It is not the pop chart, it's just the main chart, which combines all the subcategories and thus includes all the different musical genres.

I'm not so sure about that. "Pop" comes from the word popular and the Hot 100 are songs that are most popular. You'll find songs of many genre on there too. Pop isnt easily defined. It's a fluid genre that really just means "popular"

You're dumb.

Go look up the definition of "Pop music" then get back at me.

I swear these MJ stans....

MyLuv229 said:

SEANMAN said:

Outstanding tribute called "The Janet Project"

That's excellent practice. What's the goal of the project?

it HAS to be to show how a blk male fan can actually BECOME his favorite FEMALE idol with significant Stan-ing and health coverage that includes gender reassignment.

midiscover said:

PatrickS77 said:

I realize that some people do consider it as the pop chart... but technically they are wrong! It is not the pop chart, it's just the main chart, which combines all the subcategories and thus includes all the different musical genres.

I'm not so sure about that. "Pop" comes from the word popular and the Hot 100 are songs that are most popular. You'll find songs of many genre on there too. Pop isnt easily defined. It's a fluid genre that really just means "popular"

You're dumb.

Go look up the definition of "Pop music" then get back at me.

I swear these MJ stans....

FAIL

PatrickS77 said:

trueiopian said:

Fail.

The Hot 100 and Top 200 represent overall POPularity.

Jeez! So full of yourself! It still isn't a pop chart per se... it's still just a combination of all genres! They would call it Pop chart if it would be... there wouldn't be any rock and country and whatever songs, if it would be a Pop chart.

Do you know what POP music is? It's a combination of many sounds. I'm starting to think English isn't your first language.

Those shoes are crazy!

TotalAlisa said:

midiscover said:

You're dumb.

Go look up the definition of "Pop music" then get back at me.

I swear these MJ stans....

FAIL

LOL exactly!

trueiopian said:

Do you know what POP music is? It's a combination of many sounds. I'm starting to think English isn't your first language.

I never said it was! Taking midiscovers advice, from Wikipedia:

"Hatch and Millward define pop music as "a body of music which is distinguishable from popular, jazz and folk musics".Although pop music is often seen as oriented towards the singles charts it is not the sum of all chart music, which has always contained songs from a variety of sources, including classical, jazz, rock, and novelty songs, while pop music as a genre is usually seen as existing and developing separately. Thus "pop music" may be used to describe a distinct genre, aimed at a youth market, often characterized as a softer alternative to rock and roll."

and

"Musicologists often identify the following characteristics as typical of the pop music genre:

• an aim of appealing to a general audience, rather than to a particular sub-culture or ideology
• an emphasis on craftsmanship rather than formal "artistic" qualities
• an emphasis on recording, production, and technology, over live performance
• a tendency to reflect existing trends rather than progressive developments
• much pop music is intended to encourage dancing, or it uses dance-oriented beats or rhythms"

Of course, that's just one viewpoint and probably not the definitive one, if there ever is one, but I'd say that goes too far to discuss that all and in general the above is pretty accurate! One could also argue that pop music and poplar music is not the same thing,

My main point is just that the Hot 100 and the Top 200 are not the pop music charts, but the main charts, before it gets split into different genres and you falsley use it to illustrate Janet's audience, to show a seperation between black and white audiences (eg. white people's purchases are reflected on the pop chart and black people's purchases are reflected on the RnB chart), when at the end of the day Janet's success on both main charts ultimately doesn't tell too much about her audience at all.

^ you keep making a fool out of yourself. The majority of Janet's music is Pop and that's her main audience. Her success with Pop outweights R&B. Hot 100 and Top 200 is the chart people look to see crossover appeal. Once Janet started being successful on those charts it was obvious she crossed over into the Pop world. Her sound is Pop and her image is engrained in Pop culture. Therefore, her audience is mainly Pop, not R&B.

So again just because she's a black woman doesn't mean she makes R&B music nor does it mean that's her audience. R&B listeners in general rarely listen to Janet. This was evident in the 20 Y.O. era when she tried gaining the R&B audience's attention. She failed and so did that Urban/R&B project. Even most of the songs sounded way too popish with Janet on it.

ANYWAY..

Rare Interview of Janet. "I don't look at songs...we write them" lol

midiscover said:

^ you keep making a fool out of yourself.

Yeah, when you run out of arguments, insult people! That helps! Your arguments are still flawed and based on the wrong presumption! But whatever! I pretty much said, what I had to say.

^^Great picture! Never saw that one before!

PatrickS77 said:

midiscover said:

^ you keep making a fool out of yourself.

Yeah, when you run out of arguments, insult people! That helps! Your arguments are still flawed and based on the wrong presumption! But whatever! I pretty much said, what I had to say.

Which is basically nothing and this is no shade. You were just arguing that Janet's core audience is R&B because she had more success on the R&B chart. But now you’re arguing that anyone can be successful on the Pop charts even if their sound isn’t Pop. Either way Janet’s sound IS Pop and she was more successful on the Pop charts. She was far more successful on the Pop charts and in her prime she was really successful in Pop, not R&B. You say my arguments are flawed yet you keep contradicting yourself. So who's really flawed? That would be you. But thanks for trying, though.

Janet Jackson has submitted her song "Nothing" from Why Did I Get Married Too? into consideration for possible nomination at the 83rd Academy Awards, according to a report from The Wrap.

The report says that 41 songs from 36 films have been submitted. The article explains the next steps in the process of receiving a nomination:

A compilation of movie clips in which all the submitted songs appear will now be viewed and scored by members of the music branch. The top two-to-five songs will receive nominations, unless none of the songs receive an average score of 8.25 on a scale of 6-to-10.

The official Academy Awards website lists the rules for nomination into further detail:

B.Original Song:
An original song consists of words and music, both of which are original and written specifically for the motion picture. There must be a clearly audible, intelligible, substantive rendition (not necessarily visually presented) of both lyric and melody, used in the body of the motion picture or as the first music cue in the end credits.

The rules then go on to explain that the work:

- Must be created specifically for the eligible feature-length motion picture
- Must be the result of a creative interaction between the filmmaker(s) and the composer(s) and/or songwriter(s) who have been engaged to work directly on the motion picture
- Must be recorded for use in the motion picture prior to any other usage, including public performance or exploitation through any media whatsoever

midiscover said:

PatrickS77 said:

Yeah, when you run out of arguments, insult people! That helps! Your arguments are still flawed and based on the wrong presumption! But whatever! I pretty much said, what I had to say.

Which is basically nothing and this is no shade. You were just arguing that Janet's core audience is R&B because she had more success on the R&B chart. But now you’re arguing that anyone can be successful on the Pop charts even if their sound isn’t Pop. Either way Janet’s sound IS Pop and she was more successful on the Pop charts. She was far more successful on the Pop charts and in her prime she was really successful in Pop, not R&B. You say my arguments are flawed yet you keep contradicting yourself. So who's really flawed? That would be you. But thanks for trying, though.

Again! I'm arguing that what you perceive as "Pop chart" is no pop chart, no matter how long you're trying to ignore that fact, but a combined chart of all genres!

I didn't bring in pop or RnB as audiences... I said that her main audience are african/black american, colored folks, whatever you want to call it, hence her bigger success in countries with those kind of people and that her music is not as broad and open pop music as say Madonna! Of course her music also is pop music (influenced)! But she as a person (and to a extent her music) appeals more to black people. And then someone brought up pop and RnB, with the stereotype of white people listening to pop and black people listening to RnB and everything got sidetracked, mixed up and really silly from there and you started insulting people, who didn't agree with you.

I really suggest you read through the whole thread again, as you really didn't get the first time around what I was saying!

PatrickS77 said:

Again! I'm arguing that what you perceive as "Pop chart" is no pop chart, no matter how long you're trying to ignore that fact, but a combined chart of all genres!

I didn't bring in pop or RnB as audiences... I said that her main audience are african/black american, colored folks, whatever you want to call it, hence her bigger success in countries with those kind of people and that her music is not as broad and open pop music as say Madonna! Of course her music also is pop music (influenced)! But she as a person (and to a extent her music) appeals more to black people. And then someone brought up pop and RnB, with the stereotype of white people listening to pop and black people listening to RnB and everything got sidetracked, mixed up and really silly from there and you started insulting people, who didn't agree with you.

I really suggest you read through the whole thread again, as you really didn't get the first time around what I was saying!

You're wrong, though. What do you mean having bigger success in countries with that "kind of people" Are we ignoring the fact that Janet was a huge success in Asian countries? Again, why do you keep bringing up Madonna? Madonna's audience isn't broad like Janet's. Just look at the audience in Janet's shows compared to Madonna's. You're wrong, wrong, wrong. Case closed. The majority of Janet's music is Pop and it appeals to a wide range of people, not just black people. Her main audience isn't black (urban/R&B). So again, just because she's black doesn't mean her music appeals mostly to black people. Goodness. You sound ignorant as all hell. Just give up and stick to what you know because it's obviously not Janet.

Btw, it's not a stereotype that black people listen to R&B/Urban music This is fact. The Pop audience majority is white.

[Edited 12/19/10 17:56pm]

This whole argument is senseless. There's no way of determining who Janet appeals to more. I for one strongly disagree that her core audience consists majority by black people. Because 1) Not all black people like Janet Jackson. 2) Not all black people listen to her type of music. I'd say she's more of a Pop artist than R&B. I've been to her shows and it's like a melting pot. All types of people go to her shows, not just black nor is the majority black.

PatrickS77 said:

midiscover said:

Which is basically nothing and this is no shade. You were just arguing that Janet's core audience is R&B because she had more success on the R&B chart. But now you’re arguing that anyone can be successful on the Pop charts even if their sound isn’t Pop. Either way Janet’s sound IS Pop and she was more successful on the Pop charts. She was far more successful on the Pop charts and in her prime she was really successful in Pop, not R&B. You say my arguments are flawed yet you keep contradicting yourself. So who's really flawed? That would be you. But thanks for trying, though.

Again! I'm arguing that what you perceive as "Pop chart" is no pop chart, no matter how long you're trying to ignore that fact, but a combined chart of all genres!

I didn't bring in pop or RnB as audiences... I said that her main audience are african/black american, colored folks, whatever you want to call it, hence her bigger success in countries with those kind of people and that her music is not as broad and open pop music as say Madonna! Of course her music also is pop music (influenced)! But she as a person (and to a extent her music) appeals more to black people. And then someone brought up pop and RnB, with the stereotype of white people listening to pop and black people listening to RnB and everything got sidetracked, mixed up and really silly from there and you started insulting people, who didn't agree with you.

I really suggest you read through the whole thread again, as you really didn't get the first time around what I was saying!

That entire sentence makes going back and forth with you completely worthless. If this is what your idea of the world is, then that is just sad.

kenny88 said:

This whole argument is senseless. There's no way of determining who Janet appeals to more. I for one strongly disagree that her core audience consists majority by black people. Because 1) Not all black people like Janet Jackson. 2) Not all black people listen to her type of music. I'd say she's more of a Pop artist than R&B. I've been to her shows and it's like a melting pot. All types of people go to her shows, not just black nor is the majority black.

i personally noticed forums and websites that are generally have a mixed group of people, or generally black people, talk more about janet jackson.

Where as forums that don't have a large black membership, they don't even talk about janet jackson.

Basically what im saying is, the only time i really see janet being talked about is on her own sites, black forums, or mixed forums.

buying someone's album is different than going to a concert.... ALSO i went to FYE and she was under the rnb section... GO FIGURE....

midiscover said:

You're wrong, though. What do you mean having bigger success in countries with that "kind of people" Are we ignoring the fact that Janet was a huge success in Asian countries? Again, why do you keep bringing up Madonna? Madonna's audience isn't broad like Janet's. Just look at the audience in Janet's shows compared to Madonna's. You're wrong, wrong, wrong. Case closed. The majority of Janet's music is Pop and it appeals to a wide range of people, not just black people. Her main audience isn't black (urban/R&B). So again, just because she's black doesn't mean her music appeals mostly to black people. Goodness. You sound ignorant as all hell. Just give up and stick to what you know because it's obviously not Janet.

What I mean with that? Well, just what I said... countries with big population with of black people! I knew you would jump at that description! And Asia doesn't count really, since to them also Madonna is not "one of their own"... lol can't help it if that sounds somehow wrong. And I bring Madonna in because I can and because it makes sense.... she's considered the queen of pop after all.

Btw, it's not a stereotype that black people listen to R&B/Urban music This is fact. The Pop audience majority is white.

[Edited 12/19/10 17:56pm]

Oh yes... there is no way black people can like pop.... there is no way white people can like and buy RnB... and you call me ignorant!

SEANMAN said:

PatrickS77 said:

Again! I'm arguing that what you perceive as "Pop chart" is no pop chart, no matter how long you're trying to ignore that fact, but a combined chart of all genres!

I didn't bring in pop or RnB as audiences... I said that her main audience are african/black american, colored folks, whatever you want to call it, hence her bigger success in countries with those kind of people and that her music is not as broad and open pop music as say Madonna! Of course her music also is pop music (influenced)! But she as a person (and to a extent her music) appeals more to black people. And then someone brought up pop and RnB, with the stereotype of white people listening to pop and black people listening to RnB and everything got sidetracked, mixed up and really silly from there and you started insulting people, who didn't agree with you.

I really suggest you read through the whole thread again, as you really didn't get the first time around what I was saying!

That entire sentence makes going back and forth with you completely worthless. If this is what your idea of the world is, then that is just sad.

Why? Because I don't agree with you? Because you telling me that I'm wrong and falsely using the Hot 100 and Top 200 charts to show me that I'm wrong won't help you?? Yeah well... you might as well stop! I've formed my opinion over the years. And it's not my idea of the world! It's just the way it is... why do you you think Eminem is the biggest selling rapper? Because he's the best?? Certainly not... it's because more people can relate to him than to any black rapper.

when i was little i used to dance around the house singing her and madonna's songs

TotalAlisa said:

kenny88 said:

This whole argument is senseless. There's no way of determining who Janet appeals to more. I for one strongly disagree that her core audience consists majority by black people. Because 1) Not all black people like Janet Jackson. 2) Not all black people listen to her type of music. I'd say she's more of a Pop artist than R&B. I've been to her shows and it's like a melting pot. All types of people go to her shows, not just black nor is the majority black.

i personally noticed forums and websites that are generally have a mixed group of people, or generally black people, talk more about janet jackson.

Where as forums that don't have a large black membership, they don't even talk about janet jackson.

Basically what im saying is, the only time i really see janet being talked about is on her own sites, black forums, or mixed forums.

buying someone's album is different than going to a concert.... ALSO i went to FYE and she was under the rnb section... GO FIGURE....

No, sweeheart. Janet's concerts are a MELTING POT for a reason. It is because many races enjoy her music, and there is no predominant one. And, about the FYE thing, sadly, most black artists are lumped into the RnB bin, even if the music they put out is anything but RnB.

[Edited 12/20/10 5:25am]

PatrickS77 said:

midiscover said:

You're wrong, though. What do you mean having bigger success in countries with that "kind of people" Are we ignoring the fact that Janet was a huge success in Asian countries? Again, why do you keep bringing up Madonna? Madonna's audience isn't broad like Janet's. Just look at the audience in Janet's shows compared to Madonna's. You're wrong, wrong, wrong. Case closed. The majority of Janet's music is Pop and it appeals to a wide range of people, not just black people. Her main audience isn't black (urban/R&B). So again, just because she's black doesn't mean her music appeals mostly to black people. Goodness. You sound ignorant as all hell. Just give up and stick to what you know because it's obviously not Janet.

What I mean with that? Well, just what I said... countries with big population with of black people! I knew you would jump at that description! And Asia doesn't count really, since to them also Madonna is not "one of their own"... lol can't help it if that sounds somehow wrong. And I bring Madonna in because I can and because it makes sense.... she's considered the queen of pop after all.

That entire sentence makes going back and forth with you completely worthless. If this is what your idea of the world is, then that is just sad.

Why? Because I don't agree with you? Because you telling me that I'm wrong and falsely using the Hot 100 and Top 200 charts to show me that I'm wrong won't help you?? Yeah well... you might as well stop! I've formed my opinion over the years. And it's not my idea of the world! It's just the way it is... why do you you think Eminem is the biggest selling rapper? Because he's the best?? Certainly not... it's because more people can relate to him than to any black rapper.

If you don't know why I said what I said about that hightlighted statement of yours, then my point is proven. Try exploring the world a little bit before you rationalize and generalize what a certain race ("those "kinds of people") find appealing. You seem to think that Janet is most popular in countries with "those kinds of people" or "colored folks". So I guess you've never given thought to her wild success in Asia.

What's more, how in the hell does this conversation keep coming up, anyway? It was dropped and new and far more interesting subjects were brought up, and you people still keep coming back in here to troll. Be gone!

[Edited 12/20/10 5:24am]

MyLuv229 said:

Getting back to Janet...

I love this video and how it shows her personality. This is back when I enjoyed MTV. Sound quality is bad though.

I've always loved this video too!

SEANMAN said:

TotalAlisa said:

i personally noticed forums and websites that are generally have a mixed group of people, or generally black people, talk more about janet jackson.

Where as forums that don't have a large black membership, they don't even talk about janet jackson.

Basically what im saying is, the only time i really see janet being talked about is on her own sites, black forums, or mixed forums.

buying someone's album is different than going to a concert.... ALSO i went to FYE and she was under the rnb section... GO FIGURE....

No, sweeheart. Janet's concerts are a MELTING POT for a reason. It is because many races enjoy her music, and there is no predominant one. And, about the FYE thing, sadly, most black artists are lumped into the RnB bin, even if the music they put out is anything but RnB.

[Edited 12/20/10 5:25am]

you know what you are so right.. janet is a 110% pop artist.. SHE GETS JUST AS MUCH SUPPORT FROM the pop culture as Madonna.... her music sounds just like britney, madonna, taylor, and christina... HER POP MUSIC.. is soooooo not influenced by funk, rnb, soul, disco, and/or jazz

Oh wait, i see young white middle american kids, and suburban white kids influenced by janet jackson and NOT britney spears or madonna or Miley sirus...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND to top it off.... I NEVER SEE any black kids who support janet or influenced by her....

LAST BUT NOT LEAST... when i go on janet jackson forums, or even threads most of the people posting on there AREN'T BLACK

[Edited 12/20/10 19:23pm]

SEANMAN said:

PatrickS77 said:

Again! I'm arguing that what you perceive as "Pop chart" is no pop chart, no matter how long you're trying to ignore that fact, but a combined chart of all genres!

I didn't bring in pop or RnB as audiences... I said that her main audience are african/black american, colored folks, whatever you want to call it, hence her bigger success in countries with those kind of people and that her music is not as broad and open pop music as say Madonna! Of course her music also is pop music (influenced)! But she as a person (and to a extent her music) appeals more to black people. And then someone brought up pop and RnB, with the stereotype of white people listening to pop and black people listening to RnB and everything got sidetracked, mixed up and really silly from there and you started insulting people, who didn't agree with you.

I really suggest you read through the whole thread again, as you really didn't get the first time around what I was saying!

That entire sentence makes going back and forth with you completely worthless. If this is what your idea of the world is, then that is just sad.

I agree. He seems naive which explains his responses in here.

TotalAlisa said:

SEANMAN said:

No, sweeheart. Janet's concerts are a MELTING POT for a reason. It is because many races enjoy her music, and there is no predominant one. And, about the FYE thing, sadly, most black artists are lumped into the RnB bin, even if the music they put out is anything but RnB.

[Edited 12/20/10 5:25am]

you know what you are so right.. janet is a 110% pop artist.. SHE GETS JUST AS MUCH SUPPORT FROM the pop culture as Madonna.... her music sounds just like britney, madonna, taylor, and christina... HER POP MUSIC.. is soooooo not influenced by funk, rnb, soul, disco, and/or jazz

Oh wait, i see young white middle american kids, and suburban white kids influenced by janet jackson and NOT britney spears or madonna or Miley sirus...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND to top it off.... I NEVER SEE any black kids who support janet or influenced by her....

LAST BUT NOT LEAST... when i go on janet jackson forums, or even threads most of the people posting on there AREN'T BLACK

[Edited 12/20/10 19:23pm]

I hope this whole post is a joke because I'm LMFAO!

at the last sentence. WOW!

^^TotalAlisa (aka Rat Person) is just a troll not to be taken seriously. We all know Janet's music contains elements of funk, but that is just ONE genre of MANY that encompasses the music of her catalogue as a whole. Janet Jackson is a POP ARTIST, period. End of story. We've gone over this ad-nauseum, and now it's done. Let's get back to OTHER TOPICS please (like we tried to before before certain folks came back in here).

what a lame debate