trueiopian said:

musicjunky318 said:

I didn't say she wasn't Pop. I said her AUDIENCE is predominantly black. Justin Bieber supposedly makes R&B records but his AUDIENCE is pre-teen white girls who buy his material.

White people don't support her like the black community does. And that's just a stone fact. Why do you think she's doing Tyler Perry movies now? She's past her prime and has to get a check from somewhere.

I used MJ as an example of someone that represents a more even split.

But this isn't true at all and Justin doesn't make R&B records.

That's not a fact all, lmao. I'd like for you to show me the black communities support towards Janet. Where is it? What the fuck do you mean why is she doing Tyler Perry movies now? Please, don't tell me you think Janet is responsible for the success of his movies His movies would do just as well or even better without her.

You're not making any sense right now.

SAY THIS AGAIN TRU!!!!!!

I'm just shaking my head at how people can come to the conclusion that Janet had only one "core fan base". NOT QUITE. But hey if some of y'all feel only black folks dig Janet, knock y'all selves out. Really, y'all go on and do that. Fuck this.

trueiopian said:

musicjunky318 said:

I'm making plenty of sense. Where is it? In the theaters for Why Did I Get Married I & II, For Colored Girls, the ones who picked up copies of Damita Jo, 20 Y.O., and Discipline. Visits to black radio, black television, black magazines after being shunned and scrutinzed after the Superbowl madness. The ones who stuck by her and haven't left her since she debuted. I'm not saying she ONLY appeals to black people. That's DUMB and untrue. She has millions of white fans. But to say that number matches the number of black people who support her is nonsense. Where are they now? Janet hasn't had a pop hit in 9 years. Yet she's got closer to #1 on the R&B charts. Why is that so?

Let's get this clear - WDIGM/WDIGMT and FCG would've done the amount they did without Janet. Tyler Perry has a stronger following and Janet is in no way responsible for the success of his movies. Hell, he has 3+ million fans and Janet is below 300K on Facebook, not that is a very important but it sheds some light on who's the one with a strong base. Are you aware of how Damita Jo, 20 Y.O. and Discipline did on the charts? Compared to her POP blockbusters....

black radio, TV and magazines are because they're the ones letting her be on these outlets. It's similar to the reason why she's always working with Tyler Perry and other black directors. BUT this is not to say she hasn't been on the cover of bigger name magazines, shows and radio stations. Please. You're overly exaggerating the "black communities support after the SB". If you knew anything you would know that the support really wasn't there on both sides. Again, just because Janet's black DOESN'T mean her core base is predominantly black. She hasn't had a pop hit in 9 years because she hasn't made Pop music like she used to + the whole age issue in the Pop world. Janet's last #1 on the R&B charts was in 2006 with Nelly. If you REALLY want to know what "black communities support" is just look at R. Kelly. Case closed. Janet doesn't have support like that from the black community.

Basically.

bboy87 said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

That is totally not true. Janet has been at the top of the pop charts ever since Control. U don't get at the top of that with just a core black audience. Janet's Rhythm Nation album had more top 10 hits than Thriller. When I went to Janet's RoC wit U tour. It was like going to a Prince concert. It was a melting pot of races. Some of U are acting like so called but not loyal Prince fans. Just want her with a core audience............

Thriller and Rhythm Nation the equal amount of Top 10 singles

I think he meant Top 5 singles

musicjunky318 said:

TotalAlisa said:

i agree 100000%

even michael jackson to a certain degree... seemed to be more supported by blacks during his trialing times.... Mj was huge influence to black culture... like almost apart of the family.... where as to everyone else (not black )they just like his songs and not necessarily him... Im am generalizing because there are exceptions to this...

Exactly. And to be frank it's not something that should be seen as negative. Everyone starts off at home, in their own household and eventually leaves the nest later in life. In the music business it's called the crossover. Black artists, for the most part, are marketed towards the black community, FIRST, then broaden their reach once some type of footing is established. If you look at any big time singer whether it be Michael Jackson, Beyonce, Diana Ross, and all the rest of them that "made it big" so to speak got their breakthroughs from their initial audience, and 9 times out of 10 keeps the audience forever. Everyone else may come and go.

Michael Jackson is fresh and new now in a lot of people's minds because he's gone. But 2 years ago when he was still breathing? 5 years ago during the trial when he was being ripped to shreds day in and out? PLEASE...

Just because she's a black crossover artist doesn't mean her audience is predominantly black. KEY WORD: Crossover. Surely, you don't think MJ's base is predominantly black, as well.

BTW, the POP audience is far > R&B audience.

This discussion is interesting to read

and earlier I think I meant Janet worldwide isn't broad like Madonna when someone said she was, but I still like her way better, though I got into Madonna first and am still a fan.

Timmy84 said:

I'm just shaking my head at how people can come to the conclusion that Janet had only one "core fan base". NOT QUITE. But hey if some of y'all feel only black folks dig Janet, knock y'all selves out. Really, y'all go on and do that. Fuck this.

I'm shaking my head with you

and also for someone to act as if those that were fans during her debut and still are today out weigh the Pop audience she gained with Control and up

trueiopian said:

bboy87 said:

Thriller and Rhythm Nation the equal amount of Top 10 singles

I think he meant Top 5 singles

ah okay, that makes more sense

RN had 7 and Thrill had 6

trueiopian said:

musicjunky318 said:

I'm making plenty of sense. Where is it? In the theaters for Why Did I Get Married I & II, For Colored Girls, the ones who picked up copies of Damita Jo, 20 Y.O., and Discipline. Visits to black radio, black television, black magazines after being shunned and scrutinzed after the Superbowl madness. The ones who stuck by her and haven't left her since she debuted. I'm not saying she ONLY appeals to black people. That's DUMB and untrue. She has millions of white fans. But to say that number matches the number of black people who support her is nonsense. Where are they now? Janet hasn't had a pop hit in 9 years. Yet she's got closer to #1 on the R&B charts. Why is that so?

Let's get this clear - WDIGM/WDIGMT and FCG would've done the amount they did without Janet. Tyler Perry has a stronger following and Janet is in no way responsible for the success of his movies. Hell, he has 3+ million fans and Janet is below 300K on Facebook, not that is a very important but it sheds some light on who's the one with a strong base. Are you aware of how Damita Jo, 20 Y.O. and Discipline did on the charts? Compared to her POP blockbusters....

black radio, TV and magazines are because they're the ones letting her be on these outlets. It's similar to the reason why she's always working with Tyler Perry and other black directors. BUT this is not to say she hasn't been on the cover of bigger name magazines, shows and radio stations. Please. You're overly exaggerating the "black communities support after the SB". If you knew anything you would know that the support really wasn't there on both sides. Again, just because Janet's black DOESN'T mean her core base is predominantly black. She hasn't had a pop hit in 9 years because she hasn't made Pop music like she used to + the whole age issue in the Pop world. Janet's last #1 on the R&B charts was in 2006 with Nelly. If you REALLY want to know what "black communities support" is just look at R. Kelly. Case closed. Janet doesn't have support like that from the black community.

I didn't say she was responsible. My point was the backbone that goes out and SUPPORTS his movies is black. The AUDIENCE is the one that's responsible. And I've very aware of the difference in sales. It illustrates the difference in fandom. And don't give me she doesn't make pop music. Everything she makes is suited for Top 40. And MORE support was there from the black community. I'm not saying she wasn't called out. But I'll tell you what...More black people defended her than anyone else. Same thing whenever there's a scandal. Run back home.

Backbone my black ass. She got criticized by black folks after the Super Bowl too.

None of her shit after 2004 were that popular on the R&B charts either. I think the ONLY reason "Call on Me" hit that high was because of downloads/Nelly. That was actually her last significant "hit" on that chart.

Everything else hasn't been "fully supported". There was no "backbone" either. Because if she really had a strong "black fan base", you think they go out in droves to get Janet Jackson and Dreamstreet.

ONCE A POP ARTIST ALWAYS A POP ARTIST - that's Janet Jackson.

trueiopian said:

musicjunky318 said:

Exactly. And to be frank it's not something that should be seen as negative. Everyone starts off at home, in their own household and eventually leaves the nest later in life. In the music business it's called the crossover. Black artists, for the most part, are marketed towards the black community, FIRST, then broaden their reach once some type of footing is established. If you look at any big time singer whether it be Michael Jackson, Beyonce, Diana Ross, and all the rest of them that "made it big" so to speak got their breakthroughs from their initial audience, and 9 times out of 10 keeps the audience forever. Everyone else may come and go.

Michael Jackson is fresh and new now in a lot of people's minds because he's gone. But 2 years ago when he was still breathing? 5 years ago during the trial when he was being ripped to shreds day in and out? PLEASE...

Just because she's a black crossover artist doesn't mean her audience is predominantly black. KEY WORD: Crossover. Surely, you don't think MJ's base is predominantly black, as well.

BTW, the POP audience is far > R&B audience.

No it doesn't. But her audience is.

Saying that Janet is not universal is straight up bullshit. Facts are facts...

As these videos show, white folks are just as crazy about her as black folks. Folks of many creeds and colors, for that matter. She wouldn't have become a POP icon if this wasn't the case.

SEANMAN said:

Saying that Janet is not universal is straight up bullshit. Facts are facts...

As these videos show, white folks are just as crazy about her as black folks. Folks of many creeds and colors, for that matter. She wouldn't have become a POP icon if this wasn't the case.

Japan sho' loves them some Jacksons

musicjunky318 said:

trueiopian said:

Just because she's a black crossover artist doesn't mean her audience is predominantly black. KEY WORD: Crossover. Surely, you don't think MJ's base is predominantly black, as well.

BTW, the POP audience is far > R&B audience.

No it doesn't. But her audience is.

Uh...

Honestly you didn't see tour footage. Count how many people that look like me!

musicjunky318 said:

trueiopian said:

Just because she's a black crossover artist doesn't mean her audience is predominantly black. KEY WORD: Crossover. Surely, you don't think MJ's base is predominantly black, as well.

BTW, the POP audience is far > R&B audience.

No it doesn't. But her audience is.

Okay janet is a crossover artist.... but she is an artist that will only keep people interested as long as she has major hits.... otherwise people who aren't black forget about her....

at my work i know several people who don't know any janet jackson songs. they only know about the superbowl and they have one thing in common... they are not black american...

musicjunky318 said:

I didn't say she was responsible. My point was the backbone that goes out and SUPPORTS his movies is black. The AUDIENCE is the one that's responsible. And I've very aware of the difference in sales. It illustrates the difference in fandom.

And don't give me she doesn't make pop music. Everything she makes is suited for Top 40. And MORE support was there from the black community. I'm not saying she wasn't called out. But I'll tell you what...More black people defended her than anyone else. Same thing whenever there's a scandal. Run back home.

Then you must be aware that Tyler Perry is responsible for the grossing of Tyler Perr movies. So bringing him up in this discussion was irrelevant. Strike 1.

I'll give you that - she DOESN'T make POP music like she used to. Case closed. Her last POP album was All for You. Damita Jo is an R&B album. 20 Y.O. and Discipline is Urban/R&B. But guess what? All three albums were neglected by not only Pop radio but also R&B radio. Wow. I thought you said the black community was so supportive of her why didn't they support those albums that were obviously geared towards their listeners? I mean, Janet went all out with 20 Y.O. with the promotion in trying to appeal to the Urban/R&B audience aka the black community. Whomp, whomp. The album flopped and skydived off the charts [Yes, this includes the R&B charts]. Black people teased her during the debacle just as much as the Pop world did. Were you around during the whole debacle? or were you in a coma?

Run back to your hole, troll.

im actually having fun debating this... BUT.. how about this... lets solve the issues...

EVERY on here should ask people at their work, church, friends, relatives, or just anyone you feel comfortable talking too.. White, black, asian, hispanic... etc... ask them if they are a janet jackson fan.... if they know any janet songs....

cause then you will be surprised....

Crazy hamster lady, no one's even talking to you.

trueiopian said:

musicjunky318 said:

I didn't say she was responsible. My point was the backbone that goes out and SUPPORTS his movies is black. The AUDIENCE is the one that's responsible. And I've very aware of the difference in sales. It illustrates the difference in fandom.

And don't give me she doesn't make pop music. Everything she makes is suited for Top 40. And MORE support was there from the black community. I'm not saying she wasn't called out. But I'll tell you what...More black people defended her than anyone else. Same thing whenever there's a scandal. Run back home.

Then you must be aware that Tyler Perry is responsible for the grossing of Tyler Perr movies. So bringing him up in this discussion was irrelevant. Strike 1.

I'll give you that - she DOESN'T make POP music like she used to. Case closed. Her last POP album was All for You. Damita Jo is an R&B album. 20 Y.O. and Discipline is Urban/R&B. But guess what? All three albums were neglected by not only Pop radio but also R&B radio. Wow. I thought you said the black community was so supportive of her why didn't they support those albums that were obviously geared towards their listeners? I mean, Janet went all out with 20 Y.O. with the promotion in trying to appeal to the Urban/R&B audience aka the black community. Whomp, whomp. The album flopped and skydived off the charts [Yes, this includes the R&B charts]. Black people teased her during the debacle just as much as the Pop world did. Were you around during the whole debacle? or were you in a coma?

Run back to your hole, troll.

truthfully janet had more support with those flops albums among the black audience than anyone else... janet has ALWAYS MADE RNB and hip hop albums... the velvet rope.. the janet album... control.. and rhythm nation have heavy hip hop influenced songs.. and lots of REAL RNB songs....

i guess "I get so Lonely" isn't rnb...

TotalAlisa said:

im actually having fun debating this... BUT.. how about this... lets solve the issues...

EVERY on here should ask people at their work, church, friends, relatives, or just anyone you feel comfortable talking too.. White, black, asian, hispanic... etc... ask them if they are a janet jackson fan.... if they know any janet songs....

cause then you will be surprised....

Yes, surprised at how broad Janet's appeal is Don't even act like black people are the only ones that know her hits. Songs like Rhythm Nation, Together Again, That's The Way Love Goes, All for You, etc. Are all well-known Pop/R&B classics.

trueiopian said:

bboy87 said:

Thriller and Rhythm Nation the equal amount of Top 10 singles

I think he meant Top 5 singles

Thx 4 correcting me Ur right......

TotalAlisa said:

trueiopian said:

Then you must be aware that Tyler Perry is responsible for the grossing of Tyler Perr movies. So bringing him up in this discussion was irrelevant. Strike 1.

I'll give you that - she DOESN'T make POP music like she used to. Case closed. Her last POP album was All for You. Damita Jo is an R&B album. 20 Y.O. and Discipline is Urban/R&B. But guess what? All three albums were neglected by not only Pop radio but also R&B radio. Wow. I thought you said the black community was so supportive of her why didn't they support those albums that were obviously geared towards their listeners? I mean, Janet went all out with 20 Y.O. with the promotion in trying to appeal to the Urban/R&B audience aka the black community. Whomp, whomp. The album flopped and skydived off the charts [Yes, this includes the R&B charts]. Black people teased her during the debacle just as much as the Pop world did. Were you around during the whole debacle? or were you in a coma?

Run back to your hole, troll.

truthfully janet had more support with those flops albums among the black audience than anyone else... janet has ALWAYS MADE RNB and hip hop albums... the velvet rope.. the janet album... control.. and rhythm nation have heavy hip hop influenced songs.. and lots of REAL RNB songs....

i guess "I get so Lonely" isn't rnb...

Of Janet's 10 Hot 100 #1s, only one can truly be considered R&B, and that is "That's the Way Love Goes". Everything else is pop (with the exception of "Black Cat", which is rock). Her albums do contain R&B songs, but they are predominantly pop. Anyone who says otherwise is no better than record stores who stock ALL black artists together in the R&B section, regardless of whether or not their music is actually R&B.

TotalAlisa said:

trueiopian said:

Then you must be aware that Tyler Perry is responsible for the grossing of Tyler Perr movies. So bringing him up in this discussion was irrelevant. Strike 1.

I'll give you that - she DOESN'T make POP music like she used to. Case closed. Her last POP album was All for You. Damita Jo is an R&B album. 20 Y.O. and Discipline is Urban/R&B. But guess what? All three albums were neglected by not only Pop radio but also R&B radio. Wow. I thought you said the black community was so supportive of her why didn't they support those albums that were obviously geared towards their listeners? I mean, Janet went all out with 20 Y.O. with the promotion in trying to appeal to the Urban/R&B audience aka the black community. Whomp, whomp. The album flopped and skydived off the charts [Yes, this includes the R&B charts]. Black people teased her during the debacle just as much as the Pop world did. Were you around during the whole debacle? or were you in a coma?

Run back to your hole, troll.

truthfully janet had more support with those flops albums among the black audience than anyone else... janet has ALWAYS MADE RNB and hip hop albums... the velvet rope.. the janet album... control.. and rhythm nation have heavy hip hop influenced songs.. and lots of REAL RNB songs....

i guess "I get so Lonely" isn't rnb...

First of all, how the hell can she have more "support" with flop albums? Does that even make sense? Janet's 20 Y.O. album sold just under 300K first week and shot down to 77K in its 2nd week. WOW! Some support. Also her Discipline album was only on the charts for 5 weeks and had a similar decline in sales like 20 Y.O. did. I'm not seeing the support at all. The support those albums got were from her hardcore fan base - basically, people that were still checking for her because no one else was. I never said Janet didn't always make R&B. I know she always has but the thing with Janet she's always switching her sound. First it's R&B then Pop or a hybrid of both. But she doesn't have full R&B albums like Monica or some other R&B artist. The Velvet Rope is probably her closest to being full R&B. BTW, Janet’s #1’s are fully Pop except for TTWLG and that was released in the early 90’s when R&B was its prime.

trueiopian said:

musicjunky318 said:

I didn't say she was responsible. My point was the backbone that goes out and SUPPORTS his movies is black. The AUDIENCE is the one that's responsible. And I've very aware of the difference in sales. It illustrates the difference in fandom.

And don't give me she doesn't make pop music. Everything she makes is suited for Top 40. And MORE support was there from the black community. I'm not saying she wasn't called out. But I'll tell you what...More black people defended her than anyone else. Same thing whenever there's a scandal. Run back home.

Then you must be aware that Tyler Perry is responsible for the grossing of Tyler Perr movies. So bringing him up in this discussion was irrelevant. Strike 1.

I'll give you that - she DOESN'T make POP music like she used to. Case closed. Her last POP album was All for You. Damita Jo is an R&B album. 20 Y.O. and Discipline is Urban/R&B. But guess what? All three albums were neglected by not only Pop radio but also R&B radio. Wow. I thought you said the black community was so supportive of her why didn't they support those albums that were obviously geared towards their listeners? I mean, Janet went all out with 20 Y.O. with the promotion in trying to appeal to the Urban/R&B audience aka the black community. Whomp, whomp. The album flopped and skydived off the charts [Yes, this includes the R&B charts]. Black people teased her during the debacle just as much as the Pop world did. Were you around during the whole debacle? or were you in a coma?

Run back to your hole, troll.

LOL troll. You guys are taking this the wrong way. I'm not saying she doesn't have fans of all races and persuasions. That's not debatable. She does. Again...My point, HOWEVER, is that she has more black support than anything else. That is all I'm saying. PERIOD. I don't think you even know it but your sorta proving my point. Janet went all out with 20 Y.O. because that's all that was left. She couldn't get play on pop radio, MTV, etc. since she was thrown under the bus. Her only CHOICE post-Superbowl was urban. Her choices before were urban AND pop but pop dropped even though there was no huge difference in material. It's all the same. The claim that she suddenly appealed to black people with 20 Y.O. is ridiculous. This is a woman from America's first black family of music. She ALWAYS appealed to the black community, probably before she even knew it.

trueiopian said:

TotalAlisa said:

im actually having fun debating this... BUT.. how about this... lets solve the issues...

EVERY on here should ask people at their work, church, friends, relatives, or just anyone you feel comfortable talking too.. White, black, asian, hispanic... etc... ask them if they are a janet jackson fan.... if they know any janet songs....

cause then you will be surprised....

Yes, surprised at how broad Janet's appeal is Don't even act like black people are the only ones that know her hits. Songs like Rhythm Nation, Together Again, That's The Way Love Goes, All for You, etc. Are all well-known Pop/R&B classics.

actually you be surprised how ignorant many people are to janet's music. like i said the people at my work didn't know anything about janet except for the superbowl....

people from an older generation were fans of janet... the younger generation that takes any interest in janet are black.

out of the small amount of support for the flop albums.. the urban charts/ media gave more support for it.

to SeanMan... even with janet's songs being considered "Pop" they are still rnb influenced.. there is such a thing is urban pop...???

janet's pop music compared to britney or lady gaga's pop music IS ON A DIFFERENT LEVEL.. and just urban....

musicjunky318 said:

LOL troll. You guys are taking this the wrong way. I'm not saying she doesn't have fans of all races and persuasions. That's not debatable. She does. Again...My point, HOWEVER, is that she has more black support than anything else. That is all I'm saying. PERIOD. I don't think you even know it but your sorta proving my point. Janet went all out with 20 Y.O. because that's all that was left. She couldn't get play on pop radio, MTV, etc. since she was thrown under the bus. Her only CHOICE post-Superbowl was urban. Her choices before were urban AND pop but pop dropped even though there was no huge difference in material. It's all the same. The claim that she suddenly appealed to black people with 20 Y.O. is ridiculous. This is a woman from America's first black family of music. She ALWAYS appealed to the black community, probably before she even knew it.

I'm not proving your point. I highlighted the fact that Janet went all out with promoting the 20 Y.O. album to the black audience but the album didn't do well at all. Yes, Janet did that because the Pop world abandoned her but R&B wasn't all that accepting of her either. Her songs hardly get any airplay and the same can be said for her classics. Eh who said Janet suddenly appealed to black people with 20 Y.O.? She didn't. That album did badly because she left the Pop audience she gained with classics like Control - hanging. Janet can't just stick to one genre. It's always Pop and R&B and that's why I think her core base consists of white people more-so than black because she gained a huge following with her crossover hits and they're still with her.

trueiopian said:

musicjunky318 said:

LOL troll. You guys are taking this the wrong way. I'm not saying she doesn't have fans of all races and persuasions. That's not debatable. She does. Again...My point, HOWEVER, is that she has more black support than anything else. That is all I'm saying. PERIOD. I don't think you even know it but your sorta proving my point. Janet went all out with 20 Y.O. because that's all that was left. She couldn't get play on pop radio, MTV, etc. since she was thrown under the bus. Her only CHOICE post-Superbowl was urban. Her choices before were urban AND pop but pop dropped even though there was no huge difference in material. It's all the same. The claim that she suddenly appealed to black people with 20 Y.O. is ridiculous. This is a woman from America's first black family of music. She ALWAYS appealed to the black community, probably before she even knew it.

I'm not proving your point. I highlighted the fact that Janet went all out with promoting the 20 Y.O. album to the black audience but the album didn't do well at all. Yes, Janet did that because the Pop world abandoned her but R&B wasn't all that accepting of her either. Her songs hardly get any airplay and the same can be said for her classics. Eh who said Janet suddenly appealed to black people with 20 Y.O.? She didn't. That album did badly because she left the Pop audience she gained with classics like Control - hanging. Janet can't just stick to one genre. It's always Pop and R&B and that's why I think her core base consists of white people more-so than black because she gained a huge following with her crossover hits and they're still with her.

She didn't leave the pop world the pop world left her.

TotalAlisa said:

actually you be surprised how ignorant many people are to janet's music. like i said the people at my work didn't know anything about janet except for the superbowl....

people from an older generation were fans of janet... the younger generation that takes any interest in janet are black.

out of the small amount of support for the flop albums.. the urban charts/ media gave more support for it.

Then they must not know Pop/R&B music at all.

Um no. The younger generation fans aren't just black. You can't be this ignorant.

That's what happens when you release music to cater to the Urban charts BTW, Feedback actually did better on the Hot 100 than R&B charts.

musicjunky318 said:

trueiopian said:

I'm not proving your point. I highlighted the fact that Janet went all out with promoting the 20 Y.O. album to the black audience but the album didn't do well at all. Yes, Janet did that because the Pop world abandoned her but R&B wasn't all that accepting of her either. Her songs hardly get any airplay and the same can be said for her classics. Eh who said Janet suddenly appealed to black people with 20 Y.O.? She didn't. That album did badly because she left the Pop audience she gained with classics like Control - hanging. Janet can't just stick to one genre. It's always Pop and R&B and that's why I think her core base consists of white people more-so than black because she gained a huge following with her crossover hits and they're still with her.

She didn't leave the pop world the pop world left her.

When the Pop world left her she left her signature Pop sound altogether....