SEANMAN said:

Right. Like I said, Janet is a POP artist, and she has been from day one. It's easy to say she has a mostly black fanbase because she's black, but in Janet's case, that's simply not true. Now, someone like Mary J. Blige, for instance, is a good example of a popular contemporary female singer who more than likely has a predominantly Black fanbase.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

^^Jeez! I wont continue now saying, that you are the one not knowing what you're talking about... we're not in Kindergarten! Writing things in bold won't really help you either! Check the charts, read articles and forums, watch the audiences at her concerts (and yes, I've seen her concerts in a timespan of 13 years, on 2 continents and in 7 countries) and talk to people!

I've done all those things + more. You'd have to be an idiot to think her core base is the African American community. This is not true. You say look at her concert footage and the majority attendees are white people. I don't even know what your point was for bringing race into the discussion anyway.

^^I I don't feel like repeating myself (even though I'm afraid I will)... just reread what I've written... I was talking about Europe mainly, and the country, where she had the biggest success, the biggest superstar standing was the one with the biggest black population... the UK. Obviously her audience is broader as say, Mary J. Blige... but not as broad as say, Madonna! She is more likely to be accepted and embraced by black people. It did spill over for a while... but in the past 10+ years, she just hasn't been happening in Europe! She didn't even chart anymore, whereas in the states she still charted... and no, her audience is not predominantly white... well, maybe at a concert in Germany or in Hawaii... but not generally and especially not now!

PatrickS77 said:

^^I I don't feel like repeating myself (even though I'm afraid I will)... just reread what I've written... I was talking about Europe mainly, and the country, where she had the biggest success, the biggest superstar standing was the one with the biggest black population... the UK. Obviously her audience is broader as say, Mary J. Blige... but not as broad as say, Madonna! She is more likely to be accepted and embraced by black people. It did spill over for a while... but in the past 10+ years, she just hasn't been happening in Europe! She didn't even chart anymore, whereas in the states she still charted... and no, her audience is not predominantly white... well, maybe at a concert in Germany or in Hawaii... but not generally and especially not now!

But why not now? I was at a Janet concert a couple of years ago, and there were as many whites as there were blacks. Her music is as pop as it ever was. She should be bigger in Europe, true, but I wouldn't say her audience is predominantly black. Regardless of her standings in the past few years, she is still a world renowned pop icon. She wouldn't have that title if most of her audience was black. And, let's take Madonna out of the equation.

^^Well, the recent shows I've been to, that wasn't really the case!

Why not now? I don't know... I guess when things go well, everyone is a (fairwheather) fan and embraces you... when things are not going so well most jump ship and I think that white audiences will rather drop a black artist, than they will drop a white artist... and I kinda feel that happened with Janet (especially in Europe). And why should we leave Madonna out of the equation? She's pop and she's an icon and even when things didn't go so well for her (e.g. she offended people), they still stuck with her when she went on tour and so on.

PatrickS77 said:

Hmm, yeah... I agree that in that regard she is not quite a Mary J Blige... I guess, what I meant to say is, that a black audience is more likely to embrace her and stay with her and that she has bigger success in countries, which have a big african-american or well, colored population... like the US and the UK! In predominantly white countries she's not as much and easily embraced like, say, Madonna!

i agree with this 100%..... janet is more popular amongst blacks....

PatrickS77 said:

^^Well, the recent shows I've been to, that wasn't really the case!

Why not now? I don't know... I guess when things go well, everyone is a (fairwheather) fan and embraces you... when things are not going so well most jump ship and I think that white audiences will rather drop a black artist, than they will drop a white artist... and I kinda feel that happened with Janet (especially in Europe). And why should we leave Madonna out of the equation? She's pop and she's an icon and even when things didn't go so well for her (e.g. she offended people), they still stuck with her when she went on tour and so on.

That's pretty tragic. I said leave Madonna out of the equation because we are talking about Janet. And just as many white folks like her as do blacks.

PatrickS77 said:

^^I I don't feel like repeating myself (even though I'm afraid I will)... just reread what I've written... I was talking about Europe mainly, and the country, where she had the biggest success, the biggest superstar standing was the one with the biggest black population... the UK. Obviously her audience is broader as say, Mary J. Blige... but not as broad as say, Madonna! She is more likely to be accepted and embraced by black people. It did spill over for a while... but in the past 10+ years, she just hasn't been happening in Europe! She didn't even chart anymore, whereas in the states she still charted... and no, her audience is not predominantly white... well, maybe at a concert in Germany or in Hawaii... but not generally and especially not now!

Why do you keep bringing up Madonna? They're totally different. Madonna's fanbase isn't as broad as Janet's. Get real. Anyway, because she hasn't "been happening in Europe" doesn't mean her core base is African Americans. That's where you're wrong. She's hardly charting stateside too. Her audience is predominantly white and you need to get over it. DEAD at you thinking because she's flopping now her core base most consist of African Americans. Please, sit down. Janet's core base was always pre-dominantly white top 40 listeners. There's a reason why her albums nosedived right after the Superbowl.

TotalAlisa said:

i agree with this 100%..... janet is more popular amongst blacks....

Janet is just as popular amongst whites as she is with blacks.

^^I'm over it... I'm not the one trying to convince myself and others that Janet's audience is predominantly white! I'm saying she's flopping, because her white audience has left her and her chart peaks mainly stem from her african american audience... hence the bigger success in countries with higher african american population versus countries with predominantly white audiences.

midiscover said:

TotalAlisa said:

i agree with this 100%..... janet is more popular amongst blacks....

Janet is just as popular amongst whites as she is with blacks.

Exactly!!!!

PatrickS77 said:

^^I'm over it... I'm not the one trying to convince myself and others that Janet's audience is predominantly white! I'm saying she's flopping, because her white audience has left her and her chart peaks mainly stem from her african american audience... hence the bigger success in countries with higher african american population versus countries with predominantly white audiences.

Janet's core fanbase, the only that has been there from the beginning and stuck by her throughout her career is black. I don't who these stans think they're fooling.

That's not to say she doesn't have white fans, that's not to say that she isn't more of a crossover than a Mary J or R.Kelly (because she is) but she's not that universal. Her white audience has never matched the size of her black audience.

Michael was universal. Not Janet.

midiscover said:

PatrickS77 said:

^^I I don't feel like repeating myself (even though I'm afraid I will)... just reread what I've written... I was talking about Europe mainly, and the country, where she had the biggest success, the biggest superstar standing was the one with the biggest black population... the UK. Obviously her audience is broader as say, Mary J. Blige... but not as broad as say, Madonna! She is more likely to be accepted and embraced by black people. It did spill over for a while... but in the past 10+ years, she just hasn't been happening in Europe! She didn't even chart anymore, whereas in the states she still charted... and no, her audience is not predominantly white... well, maybe at a concert in Germany or in Hawaii... but not generally and especially not now!

Why do you keep bringing up Madonna? They're totally different. Madonna's fanbase isn't as broad as Janet's. Get real. Anyway, because she hasn't "been happening in Europe" doesn't mean her core base is African Americans. That's where you're wrong. She's hardly charting stateside too. Her audience is predominantly white and you need to get over it. DEAD at you thinking because she's flopping now her core base most consist of African Americans. Please, sit down. Janet's core base was always pre-dominantly white top 40 listeners. There's a reason why her albums nosedived right after the Superbowl.

Well thanks to justin timberlake they when i kinda lost respect for him when he let her catch all the heat when he was the one who did but movin on

PatrickS77 said:

^^I'm over it... I'm not the one trying to convince myself and others that Janet's audience is predominantly white! I'm saying she's flopping, because her white audience has left her and her chart peaks mainly stem from her african american audience... hence the bigger success in countries with higher african american population versus countries with predominantly white audiences.

Wow.

In general, Janet's audience IS predominantly white. Even today. But she has lost a large chunk of that audience since the Superbowl and now her audience is broad. It's like a melting pot. UM Do you think just because she's black that her core audience is black? LMAO! Janet is a POP artist first and R&B second. Ask any R&B listener about her and they will tell you that they respect her for who she is but they would rather listen to MJB any day of the week. BTW, Janet's chart peaks don't mainly stem from an African American audience.

musicjunky318 said:

PatrickS77 said:

^^I'm over it... I'm not the one trying to convince myself and others that Janet's audience is predominantly white! I'm saying she's flopping, because her white audience has left her and her chart peaks mainly stem from her african american audience... hence the bigger success in countries with higher african american population versus countries with predominantly white audiences.

Janet's core fanbase, the only that has been there from the beginning and stuck by her throughout her career is black. I don't who these stans think they're fooling.

That's not to say she doesn't have white fans, that's not to say that she isn't more of a crossover than a Mary J or R.Kelly (because she is) but she's not that universal. Her white audience has never matched the size of her black audience.

Michael was universal. Not Janet.

What does MJ have to do with this? and at you saying Janet isn't universal. Rightttt because a universal artist doesn't sell 130 million records. BTW, Her white audience is just as big as her black audience, if not bigger. Why are we all of a sudden acting like Janet isn't a POP artist? Just look at what doing R&B has got her these past 7-8 years....

[Edited 12/2/10 17:55pm]

midiscover said:

PatrickS77 said:

^^I I don't feel like repeating myself (even though I'm afraid I will)... just reread what I've written... I was talking about Europe mainly, and the country, where she had the biggest success, the biggest superstar standing was the one with the biggest black population... the UK. Obviously her audience is broader as say, Mary J. Blige... but not as broad as say, Madonna! She is more likely to be accepted and embraced by black people. It did spill over for a while... but in the past 10+ years, she just hasn't been happening in Europe! She didn't even chart anymore, whereas in the states she still charted... and no, her audience is not predominantly white... well, maybe at a concert in Germany or in Hawaii... but not generally and especially not now!

Why do you keep bringing up Madonna? They're totally different. Madonna's fanbase isn't as broad as Janet's. Get real. Anyway, because she hasn't "been happening in Europe" doesn't mean her core base is African Americans. That's where you're wrong. She's hardly charting stateside too. Her audience is predominantly white and you need to get over it. DEAD at you thinking because she's flopping now her core base most consist of African Americans. Please, sit down. Janet's core base was always pre-dominantly white top 40 listeners. There's a reason why her albums nosedived right after the Superbowl.

I am a fan of both though I prefer janet wayyyyy more for everything, but sorry, she was never mj and madonna like big worldwide though she was very popular

[Edited 12/2/10 18:10pm]

musicjunky318 said:

PatrickS77 said:

^^I'm over it... I'm not the one trying to convince myself and others that Janet's audience is predominantly white! I'm saying she's flopping, because her white audience has left her and her chart peaks mainly stem from her african american audience... hence the bigger success in countries with higher african american population versus countries with predominantly white audiences.

Janet's core fanbase, the only that has been there from the beginning and stuck by her throughout her career is black. I don't who these stans think they're fooling.

That's not to say she doesn't have white fans, that's not to say that she isn't more of a crossover than a Mary J or R.Kelly (because she is) but she's not that universal. Her white audience has never matched the size of her black audience.

Michael was universal. Not Janet.

Moose, who the fuck are you to tell us who her fanbase is? You don't even follow her career like that. Sit down. Janet is universal and the majority of her fan base consists of white people. Case closed. Like I said already there's a reason why she's largely successful in Pop rather than R&B. There's also a reason why Damita Jo, 20 Y.O. and Discipline flopped. AND there's a reason why it took The Velvet Rope forever to start selling. I'll let you try to figure that out. In the meantime don't speak on things you don't know. Ch, don't you have a Shitney thread to attend to?

[Edited 12/2/10 18:16pm]

alphastreet said:

midiscover said:

Why do you keep bringing up Madonna? They're totally different. Madonna's fanbase isn't as broad as Janet's. Get real. Anyway, because she hasn't "been happening in Europe" doesn't mean her core base is African Americans. That's where you're wrong. She's hardly charting stateside too. Her audience is predominantly white and you need to get over it. DEAD at you thinking because she's flopping now her core base most consist of African Americans. Please, sit down. Janet's core base was always pre-dominantly white top 40 listeners. There's a reason why her albums nosedived right after the Superbowl.

I am a fan of both though I prefer janet wayyyyy more for everything, but sorry, she was never mj and madonna like big worldwide though she was very popular

[Edited 12/2/10 18:10pm]

What are you talking about? I never said Janet was more worldwide them. Reading is fundamental.

musicjunky318 said:

PatrickS77 said:

^^I'm over it... I'm not the one trying to convince myself and others that Janet's audience is predominantly white! I'm saying she's flopping, because her white audience has left her and her chart peaks mainly stem from her african american audience... hence the bigger success in countries with higher african american population versus countries with predominantly white audiences.

Janet's core fanbase, the only that has been there from the beginning and stuck by her throughout her career is black. I don't who these stans think they're fooling.

That's not to say she doesn't have white fans, that's not to say that she isn't more of a crossover than a Mary J or R.Kelly (because she is) but she's not that universal. Her white audience has never matched the size of her black audience.

Michael was universal. Not Janet.

That is totally not true. Janet has been at the top of the pop charts ever since Control. U don't get at the top of that with just a core black audience. Janet's Rhythm Nation album had more top 10 hits than Thriller. When I went to Janet's RoC wit U tour. It was like going to a Prince concert. It was a melting pot of races. Some of U are acting like so called but not loyal Prince fans. Just want her with a core audience............

trueiopian said:

musicjunky318 said:

Janet's core fanbase, the only that has been there from the beginning and stuck by her throughout her career is black. I don't who these stans think they're fooling.

That's not to say she doesn't have white fans, that's not to say that she isn't more of a crossover than a Mary J or R.Kelly (because she is) but she's not that universal. Her white audience has never matched the size of her black audience.

Michael was universal. Not Janet.

What does MJ have to do with this? and at you saying Janet isn't universal. Rightttt because a universal artist doesn't sell 130 million records. BTW, Her white audience is just as big as her black audience, if not bigger. Why are we all of a sudden acting like Janet isn't a POP artist? Just look at what doing R&B has got her these past 7-8 years....

[Edited 12/2/10 17:55pm]

I didn't say she wasn't Pop. I said her AUDIENCE is predominantly black. Justin Bieber supposedly makes R&B records but his AUDIENCE is pre-teen white girls who buy his material.

White people don't support her like the black community does. And that's just a stone fact. Why do you think she's doing Tyler Perry movies now? She's past her prime and has to get a check from somewhere.

I used MJ as an example of someone that represents a more even split.

musicjunky318 said:

trueiopian said:

What does MJ have to do with this? and at you saying Janet isn't universal. Rightttt because a universal artist doesn't sell 130 million records. BTW, Her white audience is just as big as her black audience, if not bigger. Why are we all of a sudden acting like Janet isn't a POP artist? Just look at what doing R&B has got her these past 7-8 years....

[Edited 12/2/10 17:55pm]

I didn't say she wasn't Pop. I said her AUDIENCE is predominantly black. Justin Bieber supposedly makes R&B records but his AUDIENCE is pre-teen white girls who buy his material.

White people don't support her like the black community does. And that's just a stone fact. Why do you think she's doing Tyler Perry movies now? She's past her prime and has to get a check from somewhere.

I used MJ as an example of someone that represents a more even split.

But this isn't true at all and Justin doesn't make R&B records.

That's not a fact all, lmao. I'd like for you to show me the black communities support towards Janet. Where is it? What the fuck do you mean why is she doing Tyler Perry movies now? Please, don't tell me you think Janet is responsible for the success of his movies His movies would do just as well or even better without her.

You're not making any sense right now.

PatrickS77 said:

^^I'm over it... I'm not the one trying to convince myself and others that Janet's audience is predominantly white! I'm saying she's flopping, because her white audience has left her and her chart peaks mainly stem from her african american audience... hence the bigger success in countries with higher african american population versus countries with predominantly white audiences.

i agree... and also her songs do better on the rnb/hip hop charts..... i remember during her Discipline album.. she had a signing in new york... and almost all the fans that showed up were black american.... I was like WOW..... and really i only her black people talk about janet jackson....

just from my experience and from being a janet fan.... most of her support is from blacks... if janet new is posted on a black gossip site she will have more positivity... were as it could be post on perez and dlisted and she gets so much hate.....

janet may have some white fans... but her strongest fan base are blacks and homosexuals....

musicjunky318 said:

PatrickS77 said:

^^I'm over it... I'm not the one trying to convince myself and others that Janet's audience is predominantly white! I'm saying she's flopping, because her white audience has left her and her chart peaks mainly stem from her african american audience... hence the bigger success in countries with higher african american population versus countries with predominantly white audiences.

Janet's core fanbase, the only that has been there from the beginning and stuck by her throughout her career is black. I don't who these stans think they're fooling.

That's not to say she doesn't have white fans, that's not to say that she isn't more of a crossover than a Mary J or R.Kelly (because she is) but she's not that universal. Her white audience has never matched the size of her black audience.

Michael was universal. Not Janet.

i agree 100000%

even michael jackson to a certain degree... seemed to be more supported by blacks during his trialing times.... Mj was huge influence to black culture... like almost apart of the family.... where as to everyone else (not black )they just like his songs and not necessarily him... Im am generalizing because there are exceptions to this...

trueiopian said:

musicjunky318 said:

I didn't say she wasn't Pop. I said her AUDIENCE is predominantly black. Justin Bieber supposedly makes R&B records but his AUDIENCE is pre-teen white girls who buy his material.

White people don't support her like the black community does. And that's just a stone fact. Why do you think she's doing Tyler Perry movies now? She's past her prime and has to get a check from somewhere.

I used MJ as an example of someone that represents a more even split.

But this isn't true at all and Justin doesn't make R&B records.

That's not a fact all, lmao. I'd like for you to show me the black communities support towards Janet. Where is it? What the fuck do you mean why is she doing Tyler Perry movies now? Please, don't tell me you think Janet is responsible for the success of his movies His movies would do just as well or even better without her.

You're not making any sense right now.

I'm making plenty of sense. Where is it? In the theaters for Why Did I Get Married I & II, For Colored Girls, the ones who picked up copies of Damita Jo, 20 Y.O., and Discipline. Visits to black radio, black television, black magazines after being shunned and scrutinzed after the Superbowl madness. The ones who stuck by her and haven't left her since she debuted. I'm not saying she ONLY appeals to black people. That's DUMB and untrue. She has millions of white fans. But to say that number matches the number of black people who support her is nonsense. Where are they now? Janet hasn't had a pop hit in 9 years. Yet she's got closer to #1 on the R&B charts. Why is that so?

musicjunky318 said:

trueiopian said:

But this isn't true at all and Justin doesn't make R&B records.

That's not a fact all, lmao. I'd like for you to show me the black communities support towards Janet. Where is it? What the fuck do you mean why is she doing Tyler Perry movies now? Please, don't tell me you think Janet is responsible for the success of his movies His movies would do just as well or even better without her.

You're not making any sense right now.

I'm making plenty of sense. Where is it? In the theaters for Why Did I Get Married I & II, For Colored Girls, the ones who picked up copies of Damita Jo, 20 Y.O., and Discipline. Visits to black radio, black television, black magazines after being shunned and scrutinzed after the Superbowl madness. The ones who stuck by her and haven't left her since she debuted. I'm not saying she ONLY appeals to black people. That's DUMB and untrue. She has millions of white fans. But to say that number matches the number of black people who support her is nonsense. Where are they now? Janet hasn't had a pop hit in 9 years. Yet she's got closer to #1 on the R&B charts. Why is that so?

Let's get this clear - WDIGM/WDIGMT and FCG would've done the amount they did without Janet. Tyler Perry has a stronger following and Janet is in no way responsible for the success of his movies. Hell, he has 3+ million fans and Janet is below 300K on Facebook, not that is a very important but it sheds some light on who's the one with a strong base. Are you aware of how Damita Jo, 20 Y.O. and Discipline did on the charts? Compared to her POP blockbusters....

black radio, TV and magazines are because they're the ones letting her be on these outlets. It's similar to the reason why she's always working with Tyler Perry and other black directors. BUT this is not to say she hasn't been on the cover of bigger name magazines, shows and radio stations. Please. You're overly exaggerating the "black communities support after the SB". If you knew anything you would know that the support really wasn't there on both sides. Again, just because Janet's black DOESN'T mean her core base is predominantly black. She hasn't had a pop hit in 9 years because she hasn't made Pop music like she used to + the whole age issue in the Pop world. Janet's last #1 on the R&B charts was in 2006 with Nelly. If you REALLY want to know what "black communities support" is just look at R. Kelly. Case closed. Janet doesn't have support like that from the black community.

[img:$uid]http://imgur.com/djWkM.gif[/img:$uid]

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

musicjunky318 said:

Janet's core fanbase, the only that has been there from the beginning and stuck by her throughout her career is black. I don't who these stans think they're fooling.

That's not to say she doesn't have white fans, that's not to say that she isn't more of a crossover than a Mary J or R.Kelly (because she is) but she's not that universal. Her white audience has never matched the size of her black audience.

Michael was universal. Not Janet.

That is totally not true. Janet has been at the top of the pop charts ever since Control. U don't get at the top of that with just a core black audience. Janet's Rhythm Nation album had more top 10 hits than Thriller. When I went to Janet's RoC wit U tour. It was like going to a Prince concert. It was a melting pot of races. Some of U are acting like so called but not loyal Prince fans. Just want her with a core audience............

Thriller and Rhythm Nation the equal amount of Top 10 singles

I'm ready to go postal on all y'all motherfuckers...

TotalAlisa said:

musicjunky318 said:

Janet's core fanbase, the only that has been there from the beginning and stuck by her throughout her career is black. I don't who these stans think they're fooling.

That's not to say she doesn't have white fans, that's not to say that she isn't more of a crossover than a Mary J or R.Kelly (because she is) but she's not that universal. Her white audience has never matched the size of her black audience.

Michael was universal. Not Janet.

i agree 100000%

even michael jackson to a certain degree... seemed to be more supported by blacks during his trialing times.... Mj was huge influence to black culture... like almost apart of the family.... where as to everyone else (not black )they just like his songs and not necessarily him... Im am generalizing because there are exceptions to this...

Exactly. And to be frank it's not something that should be seen as negative. Everyone starts off at home, in their own household and eventually leaves the nest later in life. In the music business it's called the crossover. Black artists, for the most part, are marketed towards the black community, FIRST, then broaden their reach once some type of footing is established. If you look at any big time singer whether it be Michael Jackson, Beyonce, Diana Ross, and all the rest of them that "made it big" so to speak got their breakthroughs from their initial audience, and 9 times out of 10 keeps the audience forever. Everyone else may come and go.

Michael Jackson is fresh and new now in a lot of people's minds because he's gone. But 2 years ago when he was still breathing? 5 years ago during the trial when he was being ripped to shreds day in and out? PLEASE...