http://hiphopandpolitics....ng-p-funk/

I had forgotten what Bob said in that site about George and I was actually angry with what he said. Props to Shock G.

Reading about the industry shenanighans between George Clinton and Zapp was heartbreaking. George basically made the Zapp (gave them that name) we all know and love for his record label; meanwhile, some of them (Larry Troutman - who shot his brother Roger to death a decade later) were conspiring to move the band to a bigger label behind his back along with the music that wouldn't have been what we know without him. That's really kinda pathetic.

Thanx Timmy for the link. Will have to go through that later.

UptownCitizen said: George basically made the Zapp (gave them that name) we all know and love for his record label

Seriously ? ... is that officially documented or told on film by George himself ? The story i've heard and read so far is that the Troutman brothers had

a nanny,schoolteacher or neighbor called Miss Millsapp, and brother Terry would accentuate a part of her name by saying "Sapp" when he was a kid.

UptownCitizen said:

Reading about the industry shenanighans between George Clinton and Zapp was heartbreaking. George basically made the Zapp (gave them that name) we all know and love for his record label; meanwhile, some of them (Larry Troutman - who shot his brother Roger to death a decade later) were conspiring to move the band to a bigger label behind his back along with the music that wouldn't have been what we know without him. That's really kinda pathetic.

When I read that I was shocked.

Shock G is the fucking man.

Props.

Shango said:

Thanx Timmy for the link. Will have to go through that later.

UptownCitizen said: George basically made the Zapp (gave them that name) we all know and love for his record label

Seriously ? ... is that officially documented or told on film by George himself ? The story i've heard and read so far is that the Troutman brothers had

a nanny,schoolteacher or neighbor called Miss Millsapp, and brother Terry would accentuate a part of her name by saying "Sapp" when he was a kid.

From what I read a Roger interview (not sure where), I think he stated that his father gave Terry that name...

UptownCitizen said:

Reading about the industry shenanighans between George Clinton and Zapp was heartbreaking. George basically made the Zapp (gave them that name) we all know and love for his record label; meanwhile, some of them (Larry Troutman - who shot his brother Roger to death a decade later) were conspiring to move the band to a bigger label behind his back along with the music that wouldn't have been what we know without him. That's really kinda pathetic.

I haven't read the article yet, but if thats all what Larry was guilty of, then I don't blame him. Survival in this reptile mentality driven industry requires those people to keep it moving if the atmosphere they're in is crumbling, George's label was a sinking ship back in the 80s.

Its not fair to assume that Zapp should throw their hard work for the sake of loyalty just at the start of their career, they have their selves and their own family to feed. Its only my take.

damn,that was a scathing attack on George Clinton! I used to vist the soul-patrol regularly so I'm familiar with Bob Davis' provocative opinions,but this was crazy

funkpill said: From what I read a Roger interview (not sure where), I think he stated that his father gave Terry that name...

Aha, thanks ... we're getting there lol

He couldn't have just said he thinks George Clinton is overrated?

Cinnie said:

He couldn't have just said he thinks George Clinton is overrated?

Hopefully the Unsung series will proved that he isn't...

The man is a genius..

Cinnie said:

He couldn't have just said he thinks George Clinton is overrated?

He was trying to preach.

funkpill said:

Shango said:

Thanx Timmy for the link. Will have to go through that later.

Seriously ? ... is that officially documented or told on film by George himself ? The story i've heard and read so far is that the Troutman brothers had

a nanny,schoolteacher or neighbor called Miss Millsapp, and brother Terry would accentuate a part of her name by saying "Sapp" when he was a kid.

From what I read a Roger interview (not sure where), I think he stated that his father gave Terry that name...

In Roger & Zapp's Unsung, the narrator said George convinced them to change their name and he heard that name "Sapp" and changed the s to a z.

Harlepolis said:

UptownCitizen said:

Reading about the industry shenanighans between George Clinton and Zapp was heartbreaking. George basically made the Zapp (gave them that name) we all know and love for his record label; meanwhile, some of them (Larry Troutman - who shot his brother Roger to death a decade later) were conspiring to move the band to a bigger label behind his back along with the music that wouldn't have been what we know without him. That's really kinda pathetic.

I haven't read the article yet, but if thats all what Larry was guilty of, then I don't blame him. Survival in this reptile mentality driven industry requires those people to keep it moving if the atmosphere they're in is crumbling, George's label was a sinking ship back in the 80s.

Its not fair to assume that Zapp should throw their hard work for the sake of loyalty just at the start of their career, they have their selves and their own family to feed. Its only my take.

But he didn't even tell George that they were looking to make that deal. I agree but it was a stab in George's back regardless of his "sinking corporation". I can see both sides of the story to conclude that yes Larry was looking out for his brother's best interest and at the same time can see how they would stab George in the back. George was part of the production of the first album.

Shock laid it down. So much for the unintelligent rapper stigma.

Timmy84 said:

funkpill said:

From what I read a Roger interview (not sure where), I think he stated that his father gave Terry that name...

In Roger & Zapp's Unsung, the narrator said George convinced them to change their name and he heard that name "Sapp" and changed the s to a z.

yeah, but this was awhile back when I read this interview...

from what i can remember, Roger stated that George suggested the name Zapp ( i think they were going by the name Human Body at the time.....wanted him to have 2 bands like Parliament/Funkadelic) after knowing it's Terry's nickname......

not quite sure on this

[Edited 9/23/10 15:47pm]

Timmy84 said:

Harlepolis said:

I haven't read the article yet, but if thats all what Larry was guilty of, then I don't blame him. Survival in this reptile mentality driven industry requires those people to keep it moving if the atmosphere they're in is crumbling, George's label was a sinking ship back in the 80s.

Its not fair to assume that Zapp should throw their hard work for the sake of loyalty just at the start of their career, they have their selves and their own family to feed. Its only my take.

But he didn't even tell George that they were looking to make that deal. I agree but it was a stab in George's back regardless of his "sinking corporation". I can see both sides of the story to conclude that yes Larry was looking out for his brother's best interest and at the same time can see how they would stab George in the back. George was part of the production of the first album.

What difference does that make whether he confronted him or did it behind his back, though? It will still vilify him as somebody who walked out on George when he was in trouble its a damn of he did, damn if he didn't scenario.

Stabbing George in the back would involve an activity to hurt George, his reputation or his livelihood, all these guys did was to keep their heads above water. And frankly I'm glad they walked out, otherwise their career would've fell between the cracks of obscurity and the only way you might've heard of them was through some big shot musicians from Ohio talking about this tight group who "never made it".

And beside,,,,,high as a Georgia pine as George Clinton was. It wasn't the best place for their career to begin with.

[Edited 9/23/10 15:50pm]

Harlepolis said:

What difference does that make whether he confronted him or did it behind his back, though? It will still vilify him as somebody who walked out on George when he was in trouble its a damn of he did, damn if he didn't scenario.

Stabbing George in the back would involve an activity to hurt George, his reputation or his livelihood, all these guys did was to keep their heads above water. And frankly I'm glad they walked out, otherwise their career would've fell between the cracks of obscurity and the only way you might've heard of them was through some big shot musicians from Ohio talking about this tight group who "never made it".

You got the head of your record label defining your band's sound in the control booth while you're in the conference room talking to reps from another record label. That's foul. They didn't just walk out - when he found out what was happening, he walked out. And left them with one of their biggest hits.

UptownCitizen said:

Harlepolis said:

What difference does that make whether he confronted him or did it behind his back, though? It will still vilify him as somebody who walked out on George when he was in trouble its a damn of he did, damn if he didn't scenario.

Stabbing George in the back would involve an activity to hurt George, his reputation or his livelihood, all these guys did was to keep their heads above water. And frankly I'm glad they walked out, otherwise their career would've fell between the cracks of obscurity and the only way you might've heard of them was through some big shot musicians from Ohio talking about this tight group who "never made it".

You got the head of your record label defining your band's sound in the control booth while you're in the conference room talking to reps from another record label. That's foul. They didn't just walk out - when he found out what was happening, he walked out. And left them with one of their biggest hits.

I'm not saying what Larry did was right but - what was their alternative? Stay in a label on its way to bankruptcy and watch their own hard work get flushed down the toilet with it? It wasn't that long after the fact when Prince had to loan George some money and even signed him to Paisley Park.

Anyway, I think Bob laying the blame on George for the possibility of being a big influence on 1980's election was naive and reaching. And the rest of the rant is yet another proof that not all people can be pleased.

That's what's up! Much love to Shock!

UptownCitizen said:

Harlepolis said:

What difference does that make whether he confronted him or did it behind his back, though? It will still vilify him as somebody who walked out on George when he was in trouble its a damn of he did, damn if he didn't scenario.

Stabbing George in the back would involve an activity to hurt George, his reputation or his livelihood, all these guys did was to keep their heads above water. And frankly I'm glad they walked out, otherwise their career would've fell between the cracks of obscurity and the only way you might've heard of them was through some big shot musicians from Ohio talking about this tight group who "never made it".

You got the head of your record label defining your band's sound in the control booth while you're in the conference room talking to reps from another record label. That's foul. They didn't just walk out - when he found out what was happening, he walked out. And left them with one of their biggest hits.

True George was high and everything and his label was having problems but the man was well enough that he could envision a new sound for a group he was looking after until they changed ship so quickly.

Anyway maybe they'll talk about it on George's Unsung.

Harlepolis said:

It wasn't that long after the fact when Prince had to loan George some money and even signed him to Paisley Park.

The debut Zapp album was recorded in 1979 and released in 1980.

Prince didn't even HAVE any money at that time. He blew his budget for the first three albums on his debut, recorded the second album on a shoestring, and the third (Dirty Mind) for almost nothing in his leaky basement with faulty electricals, which is why that album is so demo-esque and lo-fi. Thankfully due to the nature of the music, that added to it's charm.

But if you ever wondered why stylistically the music of Dirty Mind and Controversy are similar, but Controversy has much cleaner production, it's because it was actually been recorded in a proper professional studio and mixed properly.

There isn't a single piano on Dirty Mind for that same reason - there was no budget for one and no space in Prince's basement for it. Lo and behold, the album was a critical hit and WB renewed Prince's contract (original contract was for three albums) and suddenly we get a full on piano track on Controversy (Do Me Baby) and some professional studiotime and mixing

Prince didn't lend George money or sign him to his label until 1989 - a full DECADE after this incident with Zapp and Roger.

I'm not getting into the debate about whether it was right or wrong for Larry to do what he did, but I saw what you wrote and had to correct you.

That was a great letter from Shock G., I enjoyed reading what he had to say!

Militant said:

Harlepolis said:

It wasn't that long after the fact when Prince had to loan George some money and even signed him to Paisley Park.

The debut Zapp album was recorded in 1979 and released in 1980.

Prince didn't even HAVE any money at that time. He blew his budget for the first three albums on his debut, recorded the second album on a shoestring, and the third (Dirty Mind) for almost nothing in his leaky basement with faulty electricals, which is why that album is so demo-esque and lo-fi. Thankfully due to the nature of the music, that added to it's charm.

But if you ever wondered why stylistically the music of Dirty Mind and Controversy are similar, but Controversy has much cleaner production, it's because it was actually been recorded in a proper professional studio and mixed properly.

There isn't a single piano on Dirty Mind for that same reason - there was no budget for one and no space in Prince's basement for it. Lo and behold, the album was a critical hit and WB renewed Prince's contract (original contract was for three albums) and suddenly we get a full on piano track on Controversy (Do Me Baby) and some professional studiotime and mixing

Prince didn't lend George money or sign him to his label until 1989 - a full DECADE after this incident with Zapp and Roger.

I'm not getting into the debate about whether it was right or wrong for Larry to do what he did, but I saw what you wrote and had to correct you.

Oh snap...

Militant said:

Harlepolis said:

It wasn't that long after the fact when Prince had to loan George some money and even signed him to Paisley Park.

I'm not getting into the debate about whether it was right or wrong for Larry to do what he did, but I saw what you wrote and had to correct you.

Fine, then I stand corrected, if that will make you come like the Niagara Falls(and I know some of you get off by the mere search of a mistake) which is fine by me.

Anyway, my point of mentioning this was to illustrate how George's lifestyle have caught up with him, that that it wasn't a healthy place for them considering his condition, and 9 years later wasn't really a long time, considering. The fact that the loan took place period, emphasizes that point,,,,,I'll leave you with the hows, where and whats of it

[Edited 9/24/10 0:01am]

Timmy84 said:

http://hiphopandpolitics....ng-p-funk/

I had forgotten what Bob said in that site about George and I was actually angry with what he said. Props to Shock G.

Indeed an amazing read... To me Bob Davis just sounds like some whiny jealous bitch...

Neversin.

Great response from Shock G, who's always come across as intelligent and very well informed in recent interviews I've read (there was a great one with him in a UK magazine called "Record Collector" a few years ago). Also interesting to read about the origins of Digital Underground as a political hip-hop outfit (read one of the responses to the article) - I remember getting the "Underwater Rimes" 12" when it came out and "Your Life's A Cartoon" seemed to be from a completely different act, so contrasting was the lyrical content. It's a great track, by the way...

Militant said:

Prince didn't lend George money or sign him to his label until 1989 - a full DECADE after this incident with Zapp and Roger.

I think that's what Harlepolis actually meant, and didn't also get the idea that she referred to the era of 1979-1980

Militant said:

Prince didn't even HAVE any money at that time. He blew his budget for the first three albums on his debut, recorded the second album on a shoestring, and the third (Dirty Mind) for almost nothing in his leaky basement with faulty electricals, which is why that album is so demo-esque and lo-fi. Thankfully due to the nature of the music, that added to it's charm.

But if you ever wondered why stylistically the music of Dirty Mind and Controversy are similar, but Controversy has much cleaner production, it's because it was actually been recorded in a proper professional studio and mixed properly.

There isn't a single piano on Dirty Mind for that same reason - there was no budget for one and no space in Prince's basement for it. Lo and behold, the album was a critical hit and WB renewed Prince's contract (original contract was for three albums) and suddenly we get a full on piano track on Controversy (Do Me Baby) and some professional studiotime and mixing

At that time there was a track on Funkadelic's album "The Electric Spanking Of War Babies" called Icka Prick ,

which i'm not shure about what message was behind this and directed towards Prince, as George has stated.

But i wouldn't relate it to George loaning from Prince around the era of his Paisley Park-deal :

"Dr Funkenstein here
Preoccupied and dedicated
To the preservation of the motion of hips"

"Swift lippin', ego trippin' and body snatchin'"

"To my song I can relate and I don't got to syncopate
Every word is in time, on time, at all times"

Now the kid was kick-back, lining the cut
Eatin' some fish and chips
And this freaky little groupie
>From the funky side of town
Begin to give him some lip
She was babblin' about how bad, ah
She could do the bump
The kid said on the real side of things
Bertha, you got too much rump to bump!

"Eat this for me" and from a tiny tree
She plucked a fruit and placed it on her navel
I was no freak, but I was gettin' weak
I took the quickest way into her womanhood.

Cheaper than discount family therapy
We bring you funk on a couch
From the doctor

Oh! That fuss was us
He's got a bug, she's got a bug
Debugging, baby
That fuss was us
They bug you, they bug your friends
Until they bug you out
That fuss was us
Yeah, call us the pest control

... and Icka Prick

lke John Henry the steel drivin' man
Who with a hammer and spike in his hand
Said it's what's up front that cunt
Lifting weights with his tits (icka prick and iron pussy)
Doing pushups with his clit (yucka fuck and muscle cunt)
Disgusting!

"Suck my mind"

This is equal-opportunity nasty

(without humps there will be no gettin' over)

Oh, yeah, you'll get knocked up listening to this (ahhh-ahhh-ahhh)
You'd better put some protection on your ears
This is graffilthy! (ahhhh-ahhh-ahh!)

Icka prick
You're sick!
Who you gonna stick? (can you imagine this?)
That's a counterfeit dick
The shape of things to come
Can you dig it
Can you imagine this?

This ain't about penetration
It's about tenderness and concentration
Friction what gets you off
Oh, you ain't seen obscene yet

Follow me to the men's room
Watch me write on the wall
I'll tell it all
Flush you before I go
Wash out my mouth with soap
And shit-talk some mo'!
Let's discuss disgusting
You ain't seen obscene yet

Elmo MacNasty, mental masturbation
Psychological perversion

Favourite throwaway P-Funk lines

[Edited 9/24/10 5:51am]