PDogz said:

SoulAlive said:

that's actually one of my least favorite EW&F albums The two singles are great ("Fall In Love With Me" and "Side By Side") but most of the other tunes are mediocre.

Honestly, I lost touch with EW&F right around Faces/Raise! at which point all their songs began to sound the same to me. The intro to "Let's Groove" got me all excited, then the song went right back into the usual EW&F formula, at which point I was essentially done with them.

They never stopped being an exceptional band, in my opinion. But for me, I just got tired of that exact same sound (...as awesome as that sound was).

PDogz.....I thought about what U said, and it got me thinking that if you take a band that helped pioneer a sound, a style, whatever U want to cal it....and then radically or in some major way, changes the way they do music, the sound that they were known for, what are U left with?

At some point U have to be satisfied with the fact that a band is known for certain signatures in their music....and when U change that too much, U basically dont have the same band.....I am not saying that a group therefore should always sound the same....but I think it is very tough to expect a legendary band to simply change in a major way what has made them successful..

EWF added rap, some hip-hop stylings, and came up with Heritage...most folk did not like the album...I really only liked a few songs alot...but that style didnt work for them...'

They tried to work with different producers and artists for Illumination...and what did U hear from fans??? They dont need to work with Wyclef, why is Raphael singing with Maurice, this dont sound like a true EWF album..

In fact, many critics, and fans, preferred The Promise because to them, in their words, it was a truer EWF album....so what is a group supposed to do?????

I am not saying that each and every recording EWF puts out should always remind fans of September, or Mighty Mighty or Devotion, but U cant be surprised if U recognise an EWF tune because the horns are distinct, or U hear the Kalimba, or U pick out Verdine's stylings on bass....those are what make EWF great and different from any other artist creating music today....

I love Sade, and yes, alot of her albums do sound similar because that is the music she is best at, and which suits her stylings and voice.....I didnt like her last album as much as Promise because it was too laid back...but there were enough signature Sade elements to make me enjoy it nonetheless..

Can an album be boring? Certainly...I did not like Electric Universe other than Touch...so yeah, I dont play that album because I didnt like the songs, and I LOVE EWF, so I almost automatically try to like the music from the first I hear it...but it was not a good album...even though it really didnt sound exactly like previous EWF recordings....

The Promise was at times too slow, and ballad heavy....but for some reason, it was a satisfying EWF album to my ears.....it didnt break any new musical boundaries...but it didnt have too because it reminded me of why I loved EWF and why they are so unique.

[Edited 9/24/10 19:50pm]

Allnall said:

PDogz said:

Honestly, I lost touch with EW&F right around Faces/Raise! at which point all their songs began to sound the same to me. The intro to "Let's Groove" got me all excited, then the song went right back into the usual EW&F formula, at which point I was essentially done with them.

They never stopped being an exceptional band, in my opinion. But for me, I just got tired of that exact same sound (...as awesome as that sound was).

PDogz.....I thought about what U said, and it got me thinking that if you take a band that helped pioneer a sound, a style, whatever U want to cal it....and then radically or in some major way, changes the way they do music, the sound that they were known for, what are U left with?

At some point U have to be satisfied with the fact that a band is known for certain signatures in their music....and when U change that too much, U basically dont have the same band.....I am not saying that a group therefore should always sound the same....but I think it is very tough to expect a legendary band to simply change in a major way what has made them successful..

EWF added rap, some hip-hop stylings, and came up with Heritage...most folk did not like the album...I really only liked a few songs alot...but that style didnt work for them...'

They tried to work with different producers and artists for Illumination...and what did U hear from fans??? They dont need to work with Wyclef, why is Raphael singing with Maurice, this dont sound like a true EWF album..

In fact, many critics, and fans, preferred The Promise because to them, in their words, it was a truer EWF album....so what is a group supposed to do?????

I am not saying that each and every recording EWF puts out should always remind fans of September, or Mighty Mighty or Devotion, but U cant be surprised if U recognise an EWF tune because the horns are distinct, or U hear the Kalimba, or U pick out Verdine's stylings on bass....those are what make EWF great and different from any other artist creating music today....

I love Sade, and yes, alot of her albums do sound similar because that is the music she is best at, and which suits her stylings and voice.....I didnt like her last album as much as Promise because it was too laid back...but there were enough signature Sade elements to make me enjoy it nonetheless..

Can an album be boring? Certainly...I did not like Electric Universe other than Touch...so yeah, I dont play that album because I didnt like the songs, and I LOVE EWF, so I almost automatically try to like the music from the first I hear it...but it was not a good album...even though it really didnt sound exactly like previous EWF recordings....

The Promise was at times too slow, and ballad heavy....but for some reason, it was a satisfying EWF album to my ears.....it didnt break any new musical boundaries...but it didnt have too because it reminded me of why I loved EWF and why they are so unique.

[Edited 9/24/10 19:50pm]

Well put like much of your post. Also the Raphael/EWF collabo worked for me on Illumination

but some of the others didn't like the Kelly Roland collabo.

Allnall said:

PDogz said:

Honestly, I lost touch with EW&F right around Faces/Raise! at which point all their songs began to sound the same to me. The intro to "Let's Groove" got me all excited, then the song went right back into the usual EW&F formula, at which point I was essentially done with them.

They never stopped being an exceptional band, in my opinion. But for me, I just got tired of that exact same sound (...as awesome as that sound was).

PDogz.....I thought about what U said, and it got me thinking that if you take a band that helped pioneer a sound, a style, whatever U want to cal it....and then radically or in some major way, changes the way they do music, the sound that they were known for, what are U left with?

...something new?

I completely understand what you're saying though. I guess my point was closer to: You can LOVE peanut-butter & jelly, but if you eat it every day you'll eventually get tired of it. Although I've never ruled out the possibility that at some point I may go back to those albums that I never listened to much and may absolutely love them.

Though ya know: When I first heard "The Way You Move" on "Speakerboxxx", it completely sounded like EW&F to me, but in a fresh new way that I LOVED. I guess that's the kind of evolution I would have been looking for. Or like I mentioned earlier; the intro to "Let's Groove" had a sound that I was hoping was their new direction.

Though again; your points were all well supported, and well taken.

PDogz said:

Allnall said:

PDogz.....I thought about what U said, and it got me thinking that if you take a band that helped pioneer a sound, a style, whatever U want to cal it....and then radically or in some major way, changes the way they do music, the sound that they were known for, what are U left with?

...something new?

I completely understand what you're saying though. I guess my point was closer to: You can LOVE peanut-butter & jelly, but if you eat it every day you'll eventually get tired of it. Although I've never ruled out the possibility that at some point I may go back to those albums that I never listened to much and may absolutely love them.

Though ya know: When I first heard "The Way You Move" on "Speakerboxxx", it completely sounded like EW&F to me, but in a fresh new way that I LOVED. I guess that's the kind of evolution I would have been looking for. Or like I mentioned earlier; the intro to "Let's Groove" had a sound that I was hoping was their new direction.

Though again; your points were all well supported, and well taken.

I think I just clued into what you were driving at......

I agree with ya related to The Way you Move.....and yes, I realise now that I have heard quite a few tunes that in many ways reminded me of EWF....guys that had the Phil-sounding falsetto, or the EWF-style horns.....and I recall many times saying to myself that these guys did EWF better than EWF did themsleves!!!!!

I caught myself and tried to dismiss the notion, but I realised that the EWF sound did not have to sound jaded, or old but had found new life......and in some ways I think Maurice and Phil kinda were trying to find that new approach when they did Illumination....sometimes it was cool..as U say, the Raphael S. track was very good, I liked Pure Gold and Loves Dance..so the album was not a failure....but there was just that something that was missing...

So yeah....I get your point....and whilst I still love FACES I absolutely can see your point with regards to getting tired with the great EWF sound....I appreciate the schooling, since I find myself rising to defend the Mighty Elements when critics come calling...but this time I do have to agree with you to a great degree, even though I do love alot of stuff from their post Raise albums...

Allnall said:

PDogz said:

...something new?

I completely understand what you're saying though. I guess my point was closer to: You can LOVE peanut-butter & jelly, but if you eat it every day you'll eventually get tired of it. Although I've never ruled out the possibility that at some point I may go back to those albums that I never listened to much and may absolutely love them.

Though ya know: When I first heard "The Way You Move" on "Speakerboxxx", it completely sounded like EW&F to me, but in a fresh new way that I LOVED. I guess that's the kind of evolution I would have been looking for. Or like I mentioned earlier; the intro to "Let's Groove" had a sound that I was hoping was their new direction.

Though again; your points were all well supported, and well taken.

I think I just clued into what you were driving at......

I agree with ya related to The Way you Move.....and yes, I realise now that I have heard quite a few tunes that in many ways reminded me of EWF....guys that had the Phil-sounding falsetto, or the EWF-style horns.....and I recall many times saying to myself that these guys did EWF better than EWF did themsleves!!!!!

I caught myself and tried to dismiss the notion, but I realised that the EWF sound did not have to sound jaded, or old but had found new life......and in some ways I think Maurice and Phil kinda were trying to find that new approach when they did Illumination....sometimes it was cool..as U say, the Raphael S. track was very good, I liked Pure Gold and Loves Dance..so the album was not a failure....but there was just that something that was missing...

So yeah....I get your point....and whilst I still love FACES I absolutely can see your point with regards to getting tired with the great EWF sound....I appreciate the schooling, since I find myself rising to defend the Mighty Elements when critics come calling...but this time I do have to agree with you to a great degree, even though I do love alot of stuff from their post Raise albums...

I don't know how I missed it, but I was barely aware of EW&F's "Illumination" CD. Actually, it seems like something I may have even liked. I'm going to listen to it this weekend.

With your screen name, I can see you're a big EW&F fan, and I HAVE known you to fiercely defend them. So I'm honored that you were even able to hear what it was I was trying to say. I'm going to listen closer to their post "Raise!" albums.

PDogz said:

Allnall said:

I think I just clued into what you were driving at......

I agree with ya related to The Way you Move.....and yes, I realise now that I have heard quite a few tunes that in many ways reminded me of EWF....guys that had the Phil-sounding falsetto, or the EWF-style horns.....and I recall many times saying to myself that these guys did EWF better than EWF did themsleves!!!!!

I caught myself and tried to dismiss the notion, but I realised that the EWF sound did not have to sound jaded, or old but had found new life......and in some ways I think Maurice and Phil kinda were trying to find that new approach when they did Illumination....sometimes it was cool..as U say, the Raphael S. track was very good, I liked Pure Gold and Loves Dance..so the album was not a failure....but there was just that something that was missing...

So yeah....I get your point....and whilst I still love FACES I absolutely can see your point with regards to getting tired with the great EWF sound....I appreciate the schooling, since I find myself rising to defend the Mighty Elements when critics come calling...but this time I do have to agree with you to a great degree, even though I do love alot of stuff from their post Raise albums...

I don't know how I missed it, but I was barely aware of EW&F's "Illumination" CD. Actually, it seems like something I may have even liked. I'm going to listen to it this weekend.

With your screen name, I can see you're a big EW&F fan, and I HAVE known you to fiercely defend them. So I'm honored that you were even able to hear what it was I was trying to say. I'm going to listen closer to their post "Raise!" albums.

Cool..appreciate the kudos...

Actually, whilst I might hate to admit it, I think I am correct in recalling something I read that apparently Prince's record company at the time wanted Maurice to produce his first album....because of course, Maurice was all the rage in the late 70s...

And while we all know how much Prince loves and respects Maurice and EWF, I believe I am correct in recalling that Prince wanted to go in a different direction because he thought that the EWF sound was losing some steam or was getting played out.....that I believe was around I Am, so technically even Prince, I guess, foretold some of the demise of the success of EWF around that time...

yes, they do have some great moments here and there post FACES, but will no doubt forever be compared to the legendary material of the 70s, no matter who they work with or whatever music they come up with........

[Edited 9/25/10 5:23am]

Allnall said:

They tried to work with different producers and artists for Illumination...and what did U hear from fans??? They dont need to work with Wyclef, why is Raphael singing with Maurice, this dont sound like a true EWF album..

Well, I don't know about some "fans", or some of their motivations (...I think some people feel a need to put shit down just for the sake of putting shit down), but I've been listening to "Illumination" all day for the first time (...with the exception of "The Way You Move", which I remember hearing their version before) while I've been working around the house (...which is the best way I love to preview CD's), and I've absolutely enjoyed it. I don't feel any of those criticisms you say some "fans" leveled against it. I think it's a solid production.

Have also been listening to "Millennium" which I actually purchased several years back, but I only remember playing that one track that Prince produced, and basically skipped over the rest. So technically, I'm listening to this CD for the first time this weekend as well, and it's sounding just fine as well.

I think part of what happened with me and EW&F in recent years has been; once I stopped seeing Maurice out front and center, subliminally I started to question the authenticity of their sound. But as I've been hearing this weekend, EW&F is still EW&F.

On the real; my music collection is almost too big for my own good. I have many CD's on the shelf that are still in shrink-wrap, and many files on my hard drive that I've only "previewed", if that. And yet, on any given day, there's no shortage of new sounds coming from my speakers. More times than not, it takes threads like these to make me go back and listen closer to music that perhaps I never had the chance to properly listen to.

So much music, so little time.

PDogz said:

SoulAlive said:

that's actually one of my least favorite EW&F albums The two singles are great ("Fall In Love With Me" and "Side By Side") but most of the other tunes are mediocre.

Honestly, I lost touch with EW&F right around Faces/Raise! at which point all their songs began to sound the same to me. The intro to "Let's Groove" got me all excited, then the song went right back into the usual EW&F formula, at which point I was essentially done with them.

They never stopped being an exceptional band, in my opinion. But for me, I just got tired of that exact same sound (...as awesome as that sound was).

I think Maurice White agreed with you (somewhat).After 'Powerlight',they went in a whole new direction on the 'Electric Universe' album.What's your opinion of that record?

SoulAlive said:

PDogz said:

Honestly, I lost touch with EW&F right around Faces/Raise! at which point all their songs began to sound the same to me. The intro to "Let's Groove" got me all excited, then the song went right back into the usual EW&F formula, at which point I was essentially done with them.

They never stopped being an exceptional band, in my opinion. But for me, I just got tired of that exact same sound (...as awesome as that sound was).

I think Maurice White agreed with you (somewhat).After 'Powerlight',they went in a whole new direction on the 'Electric Universe' album.What's your opinion of that record?

Never heard it . Since the beginning of this thread, I've been checking around and am only now realizing that EW&F has released quite a few CD's that I was not even aware of. Is "Electric Universe" one that you'd recommend?

PDogz said:

SoulAlive said:

I think Maurice White agreed with you (somewhat).After 'Powerlight',they went in a whole new direction on the 'Electric Universe' album.What's your opinion of that record?

Never heard it . Since the beginning of this thread, I've been checking around and am only now realizing that EW&F has released quite a few CD's that I was not even aware of. Is "Electric Universe" one that you'd recommend?

Alot of people (fans and critics) dislike that album.It's a huge departure from their classic "sound".Like alot of other music that was released at the time,it has a cold,electronic,synth-based sound.The horns are gone,replaced by synths.I think it's an interesting album with several great tracks: "Magnetic","Touch","Could It Be Right" (one of their best ballads) and "We're Livin In Our Own Time".The music is much more inspired and energetic than the stuff we heard on 'Powerlight'.

Re "Electric Universe", I love "Moonwalk"! I'd actually have it in my Top 15 of EWF tracks, seriously...

jjam said:

Re "Electric Universe", I love "Moonwalk"! I'd actually have it in my Top 15 of EWF tracks, seriously...

I try to find a way to call EU a good EWf album, but I cant......I do like Touch, Magnetic is okay, Could it Be Right is a very good ballad, but I just dont like side 2 of that album..so I dislike more than I like....

I think back over all the music they have created and I believe that they just dont sound good with synthesized music backing them.....Some artists, groups can create magic with drum beats, and machines....EWF is just not one of them....The stuff for the most part sounds plastic, and the nuances of Verdine on Bass, the interesting drum patterns, and percussion are terribly missing.....

I do like Millenium alot, love Bloodbrothers to death....but again, to have the horns, and Maurice and Phil singing over drum beats just does not sound right, and it doesnt do EWF justice....

PDogz....Maurice is my musical hero, and in many ways does not get the deserved accolades that fall to MJ and Stevie and Prince in terms of what he has brought to the music industry...and I truly find it hard to see them in concert...albeit really sounding great...but no Maurice...but it is what it is...I love EWF more than I hate the fact he is not out there with them so I do go to see them in concert...

[Edited 9/26/10 11:38am]

[Edited 9/26/10 11:40am]

Mong said:

Not a fan of BBR releases. They're brickwalled and obviously done on the cheap. Will pass on this. The original CD is fine.

I believe you may have a good point, I'm just learning that the Odyssey CD I purchased a few months ago (which I was not completely happy with) was a BBR release.

purplethunder3121 said:

To me, EW&F peaked with I Am...and I just couldn't get into their material the same way again. Everything previous to I Am was immaculate IMO though and I listen to these albums on an on-going basis.

'I Am' is my favorite EW&F album.That one (and the albums that came before it) are hard to top.All of their 70s albums are excellent.

PDogz said:

Mong said:

Not a fan of BBR releases. They're brickwalled and obviously done on the cheap. Will pass on this. The original CD is fine.

I believe you may have a good point, I'm just learning that the Odyssey CD I purchased a few months ago (which I was not completely happy with) was a BBR release.

I've never had that Odyssey album before,is it any good? I'm only familiar with "Native New Yorker" and "Weekend Lover",which I also like.

SoulAlive said:

PDogz said:

I believe you may have a good point, I'm just learning that the Odyssey CD I purchased a few months ago (which I was not completely happy with) was a BBR release.

I've never had that Odyssey album before,is it any good? I'm only familiar with "Native New Yorker" and "Weekend Lover",which I also like.

The 12" Disco Version of "Native New Yorker" was probably the highlight for me. Most of the other songs on the CD I had never heard, but were nice to listen to because they were all very dated (...in a nostalgic way). The songs all really take you back to another time. Just wasn't too happy with the remastering part. The songs all sounded a little brighter, but there was no separation between the instruments, like you hear in that Heatwave 2fer (...I had actually purchased both those CD's at the same time). Neither was there any particular mention of the remastering process within the liner notes of the Odyssey disc.

Then on top of all that, neither Big Break Records nor Cherry Red Records have responded to my email in regards to their remastering process, and yet I see BBR is actively pushing that new Taste of Honey remaster. So at this point; the BBR label is not one that has earned my confidence or trust.

jjam said:

Re "Electric Universe", I love "Moonwalk"! I'd actually have it in my Top 15 of EWF tracks, seriously...

Moonwalk is my favorite cut off Electric Universe. Electric Universe was an album

Maurice went a whole new direction with EWF. Some of the songs were okay.

Some were weak like Touch and Could It Be Right. Magnetic, Moonwalk, and

Sweet Sassy Lady were the highlights of the album. I thought the Powerlight album

was better. Side By Side and Speed OF Love were two of my favorite tracks on

the album. I actually dug the whole album with the exception of a filler track Freedom of

Choice.

phunkdaddy said:

jjam said:

Re "Electric Universe", I love "Moonwalk"! I'd actually have it in my Top 15 of EWF tracks, seriously...

Moonwalk is my favorite cut off Electric Universe. Electric Universe was an album

Maurice went a whole new direction with EWF. Some of the songs were okay.

Some were weak like Touch and Could It Be Right. Magnetic, Moonwalk, and

Sweet Sassy Lady were the highlights of the album. I thought the Powerlight album

was better. Side By Side and Speed OF Love were two of my favorite tracks on

the album. I actually dug the whole album with the exception of a filler track Freedom of

Choice.

Those are my two favorite songs on the album

SoulAlive said:

PDogz said:

Honestly, I lost touch with EW&F right around Faces/Raise! at which point all their songs began to sound the same to me. The intro to "Let's Groove" got me all excited, then the song went right back into the usual EW&F formula, at which point I was essentially done with them.

They never stopped being an exceptional band, in my opinion. But for me, I just got tired of that exact same sound (...as awesome as that sound was).

I think Maurice White agreed with you (somewhat).After 'Powerlight',they went in a whole new direction on the 'Electric Universe' album.What's your opinion of that record?

Just "acquired" those two albums. Will be listening to them through the weekend. And since I've never heard either before, I should have a fresh perspective on what I think of them both.

Since the start of this thread, I've been really filling in my EW&F catalog. I'm nearly caught up to date, and I haven't heard anything that I've disliked yet. Particularly looking forward to hearing "Electric Universe".

I don't know how I had lost track, but as it turns out, I'm VERY familiar with "Powerlight", lol. As I'm listening to it now, I had to go check to see the year it came out: 1983. I would have had this on cassette tape, I remember ALL these songs, I LOVED this album, lol. I don't know how I forgot about it, and I don't think I've even heard it in as many years! This is nice.

But now "Electric Universe" IS new to me, but I see it came out the same year as "Powerlight", so I don't know how I would have missed it. Particularly because this is the exact direction I had been looking for them to go in, lol. "Electric Universe" for me is like their Missing Link. I can see how many would have hated on EU, but it has some nice moments on it, for me. If I had heard it in '83 when it came out, I would have definitely been on board. I was probably all off into Frank Zappa right around that time (...and Prince!).

PDogz said:

SoulAlive said:

I've never had that Odyssey album before,is it any good? I'm only familiar with "Native New Yorker" and "Weekend Lover",which I also like.

The 12" Disco Version of "Native New Yorker" was probably the highlight for me. Most of the other songs on the CD I had never heard, but were nice to listen to because they were all very dated (...in a nostalgic way). The songs all really take you back to another time. Just wasn't too happy with the remastering part. The songs all sounded a little brighter, but there was no separation between the instruments, like you hear in that Heatwave 2fer (...I had actually purchased both those CD's at the same time). Neither was there any particular mention of the remastering process within the liner notes of the Odyssey disc.

Then on top of all that, neither Big Break Records nor Cherry Red Records have responded to my email in regards to their remastering process, and yet I see BBR is actively pushing that new Taste of Honey remaster. So at this point; the BBR label is not one that has earned my confidence or trust.

They won't reply as they don't use people with actual experience in mastering from what I hear - the budget for these reissues is miniscule. That's why they usually sound so brickwalled.

PDogz said:

I don't know how I had lost track, but as it turns out, I'm VERY familiar with "Powerlight", lol. As I'm listening to it now, I had to go check to see the year it came out: 1983. I would have had this on cassette tape, I remember ALL these songs, I LOVED this album, lol. I don't know how I forgot about it, and I don't think I've even heard it in as many years! This is nice.

But now "Electric Universe" IS new to me, but I see it came out the same year as "Powerlight", so I don't know how I would have missed it. Particularly because this is the exact direction I had been looking for them to go in, lol. "Electric Universe" for me is like their Missing Link. I can see how many would have hated on EU, but it has some nice moments on it, for me. If I had heard it in '83 when it came out, I would have definitely been on board. I was probably all off into Frank Zappa right around that time (...and Prince!).

'Electric Universe' was released at the tail end of 1983,but it flopped big time which is probably why you didn't hear much from it.The first single "Magnetic" did OK and received some airplay,but the other two singles (Touch" and "Moonwalk") went nowhere.The album failed to reach gold status and the guys decided to take a break.I think it's an interesting album but many longtime fans were disappointed.It's a big departure from the previous albums.