So i was jamming to DC today as i was jogging, man Ice Cube is just a great story teller period! This is one of the rawest, angriest and most political rap records ever i love every thing on it even the fillers!

even the funny sex romp Givin up the nappy dugout is a blast

Ice Cube's original; trilogy of his first 3 solo albums where amazing, Lethal injection is aight

War & peace vol.2 rock's... Vol.1 is so so

Ice cube is still great but idk if he will ever be as good as he was on this album again...

Some racist lyrics on that album, I don't like that.

He's like anti-jew, anti-white, anti-asian WTF

Death Certificate [Priority, 1991]
Between "Dead Homiez," which mourned murdered friends in a voice some called soft, and Boyz N the Hood, which required him to simulate thought, the St. Ides spokesperson was worried about his image. To use the only noun in the hard lexicon that suggests normal human sensitivities, he was acting like a "faggot." So here he reclaims his perpetually threatened manhood. Early on he mitigates the usual gangsta shit--gat as penis and pit bull, female body as pestilence and plague--with such touches as an antigang track and a nurse with attitude. But eventually he breaks new ground. In addition to many fascinated rhymes on the complex subject of who fucks who in the ass and how, he nuts out on white devils who crave "a taste of chocolate" because "white bitches have no butt and no chest." He inveighs against "Jap" and "Jew." And he proposes a "nationwide boycott" of Korean-owned inner-city businesses that escape the torch, poking gentle fun at the Korean accent along the way. Call him Ice KKKube--a straight-up bigot simple and plain. C+

Robert Christgau

"never gon 'get it' (was all part of playin the hip-hop street cred game) critics aside....I say the OP's point stands.

Is it a blast??? I vote yeah.

This is the album that made me go "wtf?" when white, middle-class American started accepting him as an actor and "celebrity". I was like, "well CLEARLY they haven't heard Death Certificate".

Cerebus said:

This is the album that made me go "wtf?" when white, middle-class American started accepting him as an actor and "celebrity". I was like, "well CLEARLY they haven't heard Death Certificate".

Lyrics aside, the music was (is) so fuckin' great. Best rap album of the 90-92 era. Period

I love the production on this album and Da Lench Mob's and Yo-Yo's.

Everyone crying about the lyrics are bitches, straight up.

Thibaut said:

Some racist lyrics on that album, I don't like that.

He's like anti-jew, anti-white, anti-asian WTF

Why are these lyrics acceptable even garnering respect... but when Morrissey says "subspecies", people condemn him as being a bigot...

weird...

crazydoctor said:

Thibaut said:

Some racist lyrics on that album, I don't like that.

He's like anti-jew, anti-white, anti-asian WTF

Why are these lyrics acceptable even garnering respect... but when Morrissey says "subspecies", people condemn him as being a bigot...

weird...

Because Morrissey is white, of course.

Yes. Dripping with double standard sarcasm.

Cerebus said:

crazydoctor said:

Why are these lyrics acceptable even garnering respect... but when Morrissey says "subspecies", people condemn him as being a bigot...

weird...

Because Morrissey is white, of course.

Yes. Dripping with double standard sarcasm.

I wasn't even saying or thinking that.

Both were using anti-asian possibly racist language. I'm honestly asking why one is acceptable and the other is not. No need for sarcasm.

[Edited 9/16/10 14:35pm]

Oh hell, it's a record title. Damn, what a disappointment.

crazydoctor said:

Thibaut said:

Some racist lyrics on that album, I don't like that.

He's like anti-jew, anti-white, anti-asian WTF

Why are these lyrics acceptable even garnering respect... but when Morrissey says "subspecies", people condemn him as being a bigot...

weird...

Because racist lyrics coming from blacks are showing the state of mind that racist whites would love for all blacks to have. Regardless of the anger in the way the lyrics are presented, racist whites are happy to see lyrics from blacks that promote sticking with their own kind and "staying in their place". They could care less about the anger in which the way they are presented because it makes them happy to see black folks angry anyway. It's an entertaining show to them.

.

.

.

[Edited 9/16/10 14:50pm]

vainandy said:

crazydoctor said:

Why are these lyrics acceptable even garnering respect... but when Morrissey says "subspecies", people condemn him as being a bigot...

weird...

Because racist lyrics coming from blacks are showing the state of mind that racist whites would love for all blacks to have. Regardless of the anger in they way the lyrics are presented, they are happy to see lyrics that promote sticking with their own kind and "staying in their place".

.

.

.

[Edited 9/16/10 14:48pm]

but is a song like "Black Korea" for the benefit of racist whites?

crazydoctor said:

vainandy said:

Because racist lyrics coming from blacks are showing the state of mind that racist whites would love for all blacks to have. Regardless of the anger in they way the lyrics are presented, they are happy to see lyrics that promote sticking with their own kind and "staying in their place".

.

.

.

[Edited 9/16/10 14:48pm]

but is a song like "Black Korea" for the benefit of racist whites?

I've never heard that song. All I remember is seeing a video on BET in the early 1990s where Ice Cube angrily talks about black men that date white women and rappers that he considered "soft" or "sellouts" like MC Hammer. In the video, he throws the black guy that dated the black woman in the trunk of a car. To someone like me, who loves and dates black people, I was highly offended. However, to someone racist who hates black people, it thrills them to death to see black people so gun ho on sticking with their race that they would cause violence against another black person that didn't. It's like having that stupid black person to do the work of the rednecks without them having to do it themselves. The way I see it, someone like Ice Cube who has those feelings about interracial dating is the one that's the real sellout because he's giving the rednecks exactly what they want. If I'm not mistaken, I think he eventually ended up with a white woman himself.

As for "Black Korea", no I've never heard it. I'm not a shit hop listener. I just happen to see a racist video from Ice Cube from another song on BET. As for the song being for the benefit of someone, I'm sure it's just for the benefit of his own ignorance and stupidity.

crazydoctor said:

Cerebus said:

Because Morrissey is white, of course.

Yes. Dripping with double standard sarcasm.

I wasn't even saying or thinking that.

Both were using anti-asian possibly racist language. I'm honestly asking why one is acceptable and the other is not. No need for sarcasm.

I think you missed the point of my sarcasm. There is no legitimate reason why one is acceptable and one is not. But there is an existing double standard that allows them to be perceived differently. Ice Cube is (was) seen as being a hard, black gangsta rapper. Morrisey is seen as a soft, white British crooner. In those contexts each of them are NOT allowed to say the same thing. In reality, what one of them is saying is no different than the other.

Cerebus said:

crazydoctor said:

I wasn't even saying or thinking that.

Both were using anti-asian possibly racist language. I'm honestly asking why one is acceptable and the other is not. No need for sarcasm.

I think you missed the point of my sarcasm. There is no legitimate reason why one is acceptable and one is not. But there is an existing double standard that allows them to be perceived differently. Ice Cube is (was) seen as being a hard, black gangsta rapper. Morrisey is seen as a soft, white British crooner. In those contexts each of them are NOT allowed to say the same thing. In reality, what one of them is saying is no different than the other.

Oh man, I apologize. I thought the eye-roll was being directed at me... I thought you were saying, I was implying a racial double standard and rolling eyes at that because you didn't agree...

my bad. sorry.

crazydoctor said:

Cerebus said:

I think you missed the point of my sarcasm. There is no legitimate reason why one is acceptable and one is not. But there is an existing double standard that allows them to be perceived differently. Ice Cube is (was) seen as being a hard, black gangsta rapper. Morrisey is seen as a soft, white British crooner. In those contexts each of them are NOT allowed to say the same thing. In reality, what one of them is saying is no different than the other.

Oh man, I apologize. I thought the eye-roll was being directed at me... I thought you were saying, I was implying a racial double standard and rolling eyes at that because you didn't agree...

my bad. sorry.

Oh, no worries at all. Sarcasm is the internets fail. It's hard to know what people mean, especially if you're not used to their posting style.

Cerebus said:

crazydoctor said:

Oh man, I apologize. I thought the eye-roll was being directed at me... I thought you were saying, I was implying a racial double standard and rolling eyes at that because you didn't agree...

my bad. sorry.

Oh, no worries at all. Sarcasm is the internets fail. It's hard to know what people mean, especially if you're not used to their posting style.

Thanks.

I have trouble with sarcasm in real-life too.

crazydoctor said:

Cerebus said:

Because Morrissey is white, of course.

Yes. Dripping with double standard sarcasm.

I wasn't even saying or thinking that.

Both were using anti-asian possibly racist language. I'm honestly asking why one is acceptable and the other is not. No need for sarcasm.

[Edited 9/16/10 14:35pm]

I´m not familiar with the Morrisey scandal but I do know almost every single lyric that Icecube has ever written,and while I do understand why the lyrics of the "Death Certificate" album caused such an uproar, I must admit that I think Morrisey´s use of the term "subspecies" is much more racist than the things that Icecube said.

vainandy said:

Oh hell, it's a record title. Damn, what a disappointment.

vainandy said:

crazydoctor said:

but is a song like "Black Korea" for the benefit of racist whites?

I've never heard that song. All I remember is seeing a video on BET in the early 1990s where Ice Cube angrily talks about black men that date white women and rappers that he considered "soft" or "sellouts" like MC Hammer. In the video, he throws the black guy that dated the black woman in the trunk of a car. To someone like me, who loves and dates black people, I was highly offended. However, to someone racist who hates black people, it thrills them to death to see black people so gun ho on sticking with their race that they would cause violence against another black person that didn't. It's like having that stupid black person to do the work of the rednecks without them having to do it themselves. The way I see it, someone like Ice Cube who has those feelings about interracial dating is the one that's the real sellout because he's giving the rednecks exactly what they want. If I'm not mistaken, I think he eventually ended up with a white woman himself.

As for "Black Korea", no I've never heard it. I'm not a shit hop listener. I just happen to see a racist video from Ice Cube from another song on BET. As for the song being for the benefit of someone, I'm sure it's just for the benefit of his own ignorance and stupidity.

We both dislike Shithop with a passion but.....Icecube is far, far away from Shithop, and "Death Certificate" is definitely not Shithop ( and yes, I am very familiar with your definition of that term ).

Icecube is a lot of things..maybe homophobic, maybe anti-Korean, maybe anti-flat ass, probably against interracial relationships...but he´s definitely not Shithop.

crazydoctor said:

Cerebus said:

Because Morrissey is white, of course.

Yes. Dripping with double standard sarcasm.

I wasn't even saying or thinking that.

Both were using anti-asian possibly racist language. I'm honestly asking why one is acceptable and the other is not. No need for sarcasm.

Probably because Morrissey's NAGL quotes come directly from interviews, not some lyrics where the perspective is open to interpretation.

Death Ceritificate..............DEFinately in my top 10 of all time HIP hop cd's

Wow, i had no idea this was going to be such a controversial topic

maybe it's just cause i am not easily offended.... but it's OBVIOUS Cube doesn't hate white's, asians or any of these.

I Mean he's acted in movies with them and nowadays he's seen as.... a kid's movie star which i still don't like.

But to me these are all just stories, idk maybe it's just me but i just feel he is telling stories of the hood and life and not trying to say HEY I HATE YOU WHITE BITCHES

But i love the album, it's raw, dark and the song's tell actual stories to me it's a classic cd

crazydoctor said:

Thibaut said:

Some racist lyrics on that album, I don't like that.

He's like anti-jew, anti-white, anti-asian WTF

Why are these lyrics acceptable even garnering respect... but when Morrissey says "subspecies", people condemn him as being a bigot...

weird...

I'm also a big fan of Morrissey as well, and i have heard bits and pieces of this ''scandal'' involving him, guess i need to read more into it

2freaky4church1 said:

Death Certificate [Priority, 1991]
Between "Dead Homiez," which mourned murdered friends in a voice some called soft, and Boyz N the Hood, which required him to simulate thought, the St. Ides spokesperson was worried about his image. To use the only noun in the hard lexicon that suggests normal human sensitivities, he was acting like a "faggot." So here he reclaims his perpetually threatened manhood. Early on he mitigates the usual gangsta shit--gat as penis and pit bull, female body as pestilence and plague--with such touches as an antigang track and a nurse with attitude. But eventually he breaks new ground. In addition to many fascinated rhymes on the complex subject of who fucks who in the ass and how, he nuts out on white devils who crave "a taste of chocolate" because "white bitches have no butt and no chest." He inveighs against "Jap" and "Jew." And he proposes a "nationwide boycott" of Korean-owned inner-city businesses that escape the torch, poking gentle fun at the Korean accent along the way. Call him Ice KKKube--a straight-up bigot simple and plain. C+

Robert Christgau

MANY critics had this reaction when it first came out, nowadays it's regarded as a classic

in 91 RS gave it two and a half in 2004 they gave it 4 stars & gave Amerikkka's most wanted 5

it also got an A- from EW a 10/10 from Spin, & high ratings in the L.A & N.Y times

and even in Christgau's review c+ is still passing lol

I have no problem accepting the album as a classic. It's a great album. My friends and I played it endlessly for a couple years after it's initial release. But there really isn't any difference between the things Ice Cube was saying about Koreans (which was the main complaint against the album as I recall) back then and what Morrisey is saying now. Especially when you have the full context behind why both of them were/are saying what they are saying. Regardless, the way I look at is as a freedom of speech issue. They should be able to say whatever they want so long as they are prepared for the myriad reactions and responses they'll get in return.

Cerebus said:

I have no problem accepting the album as a classic. It's a great album. My friends and I played it endlessly for a couple years after it's initial release. But there really isn't any difference between the things Ice Cube was saying about Koreans (which was the main complaint against the album as I recall) back then and what Morrisey is saying now. Especially when you have the full context behind why both of them were/are saying what they are saying. Regardless, the way I look at is as a freedom of speech issue. They should be able to say whatever they want so long as they are prepared for the myriad reactions and responses they'll get in return.

Well that's true as well my friend

Cerebus said:

I have no problem accepting the album as a classic. It's a great album. My friends and I played it endlessly for a couple years after it's initial release. But there really isn't any difference between the things Ice Cube was saying about Koreans (which was the main complaint against the album as I recall) back then and what Morrisey is saying now. Especially when you have the full context behind why both of them were/are saying what they are saying. Regardless, the way I look at is as a freedom of speech issue. They should be able to say whatever they want so long as they are prepared for the myriad reactions and responses they'll get in return.

I still spin it that one lot, one of my fave "classic" albums in Hiphop