Marrk said:

I've uploaded the unavailable 12 inch if anyones interested.

http://www.zshare.net/aud...344806ac1/

This is the only version I ever knew of. Detroit DJ, The One and Only Electrifying Mojo used to play it. Thanks for the memories.

Classic, classic, classic, classic.

I love this song so much - both versions.

Randy Hansen isn't Freddie though

He's a well-known session guitarist, he is credited as co-writer because he wrote the guitar riff. Michael wrote the lyrics and vocal melodies.

A rock type song that you can actually shake ass to. Great song.

Militant said:

Classic, classic, classic, classic.

I love this song so much - both versions.

Randy Hansen isn't Freddie though

He's a well-known session guitarist, he is credited as co-writer because he wrote the guitar riff. Michael wrote the lyrics and vocal melodies.

That was said in a book....I learned something new

bboy87 said:

Militant said:

Classic, classic, classic, classic.

I love this song so much - both versions.

Randy Hansen isn't Freddie though

He's a well-known session guitarist, he is credited as co-writer because he wrote the guitar riff. Michael wrote the lyrics and vocal melodies.

That was said in a book....I learned something new

Whoever wrote that book needs to do more research! lol

Militant said:

bboy87 said:

That was said in a book....I learned something new

Whoever wrote that book needs to do more research! lol

I'm sitting here literally trying to remember where I read it

For The Record is getting updated so if that info was in the 2009 edition, it won't be for the next

Militant said:

Classic, classic, classic, classic.

I love this song so much - both versions.

Randy Hansen isn't Freddie though

He's a well-known session guitarist, he is credited as co-writer because he wrote the guitar riff. Michael wrote the lyrics and vocal melodies.

Hmm, Iam not sure about this one. I read it somewhere that is was Freddie. If you look at the credits, it only credits Mike's publishing. Also "Randy" only wrote the lyrics with Mike, NOT the music. Mike wrote the music on his own, which suggests that Freddie only helped him with the lyrics (after all it was only a demo I imagine). Mike came up with the riff on his own then, which makes it unlikely the real Randy Hensen would of popped into the studio one day to help Michael with the lyrics, particually as he is a guitarist with no real history of being a pop session man like Steve Lukather, Dan Huff etc... in other words the "Victory" album, along with all of the Quincy era of Mike's career, is chock full of La hired guns. "Victory" is included and I can't imagine the real Randy Hansen would just co-write lyrics to a Michael Jackson demo and nothing else. Just seems too far fetched. I think Wiki and discogs have just got it wrong (after all anyone can write those entries).

Anyway it's an OK song. Clearly both of Mikes main contributions were only in demo form (by his standards), which indicate somewhat tellingly how much he wanted to be involved with the whole project LOL (i.e not much). Still, "The Hurt", which is sonically gorgeous in my veiw, does sound alot more fleshed out, and Mike co-wrote that one. I presume Mike got involved with "The Hurt" in demo form only, and Randy and the Toto guys finished it up properly later without him? Who knows. Despite Randy's grating falcetto, I really love "The Hurt". David Paich and Stevie Porcaro's synths are gorgeous on that one. Lots of lovely keyboard flourishes, on a rather ordinary track.

Marlon gets a co-writing credit for "Be not always" bytheway. Not bad for just writing "additional lyrics".

thesexofit said:

Militant said:

Classic, classic, classic, classic.

I love this song so much - both versions.

Randy Hansen isn't Freddie though

He's a well-known session guitarist, he is credited as co-writer because he wrote the guitar riff. Michael wrote the lyrics and vocal melodies.

Hmm, Iam not sure about this one. I read it somewhere that is was Freddie. If you look at the credits, it only credits Mike's publishing. Also "Randy" only wrote the lyrics with Mike, NOT the music. Mike wrote the music on his own, which suggests that Freddie only helped him with the lyrics (after all it was only a demo I imagine). Mike came up with the riff on his own then, which makes it unlikely the real Randy Hensen would of popped into the studio one day to help Michael with the lyrics, particually as he is a guitarist with no real history of being a pop session man like Steve Lukather, Dan Huff etc... in other words the "Victory" album, along with all of the Quincy era of Mike's career, is chock full of La hired guns. "Victory" is included and I can't imagine the real Randy Hansen would just co-write lyrics to a Michael Jackson demo and nothing else. Just seems too far fetched. I think Wiki and discogs have just got it wrong (after all anyone can write those entries).

Anyway it's an OK song. Clearly both of Mikes main contributions were only in demo form (by his standards), which indicate somewhat tellingly how much he wanted to be involved with the whole project LOL (i.e not much). Still, "The Hurt", which is sonically gorgeous in my veiw, does sound alot more fleshed out, and Mike co-wrote that one. I presume Mike got involved with "The Hurt" in demo form only, and Randy and the Toto guys finished it up properly later without him? Who knows. Despite Randy's grating falcetto, I really love "The Hurt". David Paich and Stevie Porcaro's synths are gorgeous on that one. Lots of lovely keyboard flourishes, on a rather ordinary track.

Marlon gets a co-writing credit for "Be not always" bytheway. Not bad for just writing "additional lyrics".

That makes sense too, because when listening to the demo, the lyrics and the song structure is all there

bboy87 said:

Kinda off topic, but I'm thinking of the songs that were considered for the Victory album

Torture

Wait

One More Chance

Be Not Always

State Of Shock

We Can Change The World

The Hurt

Body

----

Where Do I Stand (later released solo by Marlon)

Still In Love With You

Liberian Girl (later released on Bad)

Buffalo Bill

Victory

There Must Be More To Life Than This (later released solo by Freddie)

Power

Nona

Doing Dirty

LittleBlueCorvette probably knows some more titles

and I believe Tell Me I'm Not Dreamin' should've been on the album

Had this CD for years. Not a bad album actually. Tito wrote it with common collaborator Vassal Benford (who went on to do "Don't walk away" for Jade) and David Ritz. Produded by Tito and Vassal. Pretty ordinary track, but the production is tight though. Who knows if a Jacksons demo exists? Tito and Vassal produce another track on the album, with Jermaine, Jackie and Randy on backing vocals.

[Edited 9/16/10 17:23pm]

thesexofit said:Hmm, Iam not sure about this one. I read it somewhere that is was Freddie. If you look at the credits, it only credits Mike's publishing. Also "Randy" only wrote the lyrics with Mike, NOT the music. Mike wrote the music on his own, which suggests that Freddie only helped him with the lyrics (after all it was only a demo I imagine). Mike came up with the riff on his own then, which makes it unlikely the real Randy Hensen would of popped into the studio one day to help Michael with the lyrics, particually as he is a guitarist with no real history of being a pop session man like Steve Lukather, Dan Huff etc... in other words the "Victory" album, along with all of the Quincy era of Mike's career, is chock full of La hired guns. "Victory" is included and I can't imagine the real Randy Hansen would just co-write lyrics to a Michael Jackson demo and nothing else. Just seems too far fetched. I think Wiki and discogs have just got it wrong (after all anyone can write those entries).

I happen to know for a fact that Randy Hansen wrote that riff, despite what it says in the liner notes.

Publishing doesn't mean anything.... the Sly Stone re-releases are all credited to MiJac, does that mean Michael wrote them?

As for Randy Hansen's work - he was a teenager at the time, living in the area. More than likely, he did not have his own publishing company and probably wasn't even registered with ASCAP, meaning that he wouldn't get any royalties anyway due to not being registered.

Chances are Michael just struck a deal with him to credit him for lyrics, and paid him upfront rather than having him listed as a composer (if he was registered as a composer, ASCAP would be paying Michael less for the royalties based on the percentage split).

As for Wiki and discogs getting it wrong - Randy as credited on the album credits. But as you said, for lyrics.

I think the idea of Freddie Mercury turning down a writing credit, and the two of them just arbitrarily deciding to give the credit to another artist, or making up a name that just happened to be the name of another artist, a guitarist, on a song that is based around a guitar riff, is more far fetched than what you're suggesting happened

bboy87 said:

thesexofit said:

Hmm, Iam not sure about this one. I read it somewhere that is was Freddie. If you look at the credits, it only credits Mike's publishing. Also "Randy" only wrote the lyrics with Mike, NOT the music. Mike wrote the music on his own, which suggests that Freddie only helped him with the lyrics (after all it was only a demo I imagine). Mike came up with the riff on his own then, which makes it unlikely the real Randy Hensen would of popped into the studio one day to help Michael with the lyrics, particually as he is a guitarist with no real history of being a pop session man like Steve Lukather, Dan Huff etc... in other words the "Victory" album, along with all of the Quincy era of Mike's career, is chock full of La hired guns. "Victory" is included and I can't imagine the real Randy Hansen would just co-write lyrics to a Michael Jackson demo and nothing else. Just seems too far fetched. I think Wiki and discogs have just got it wrong (after all anyone can write those entries).

Anyway it's an OK song. Clearly both of Mikes main contributions were only in demo form (by his standards), which indicate somewhat tellingly how much he wanted to be involved with the whole project LOL (i.e not much). Still, "The Hurt", which is sonically gorgeous in my veiw, does sound alot more fleshed out, and Mike co-wrote that one. I presume Mike got involved with "The Hurt" in demo form only, and Randy and the Toto guys finished it up properly later without him? Who knows. Despite Randy's grating falcetto, I really love "The Hurt". David Paich and Stevie Porcaro's synths are gorgeous on that one. Lots of lovely keyboard flourishes, on a rather ordinary track.

Marlon gets a co-writing credit for "Be not always" bytheway. Not bad for just writing "additional lyrics".

That makes sense too, because when listening to the demo, the lyrics and the song structure is all there

I think its Freddie. It's just coincidence that Freddie's alias is someone who actually exists in the music industry LOL. Rather kindly, Freddie gave him full ownership publishing wise (or never contested it), which is another indicator its not the real Randy Hansen as surely he would want co-writing royalties. Why wouldn't Freddie? Maybe because they were once mates? Who knows.....

I read Michael caught Freddie doing drugs (cocaine) in a studio bathroom and that ended their friendship. A shame that nothing ever progressed passed demo's. Could you imagine both of them onstage together?

[Edited 9/16/10 17:31pm]

Militant said:

thesexofit said:Hmm, Iam not sure about this one. I read it somewhere that is was Freddie. If you look at the credits, it only credits Mike's publishing. Also "Randy" only wrote the lyrics with Mike, NOT the music. Mike wrote the music on his own, which suggests that Freddie only helped him with the lyrics (after all it was only a demo I imagine). Mike came up with the riff on his own then, which makes it unlikely the real Randy Hensen would of popped into the studio one day to help Michael with the lyrics, particually as he is a guitarist with no real history of being a pop session man like Steve Lukather, Dan Huff etc... in other words the "Victory" album, along with all of the Quincy era of Mike's career, is chock full of La hired guns. "Victory" is included and I can't imagine the real Randy Hansen would just co-write lyrics to a Michael Jackson demo and nothing else. Just seems too far fetched. I think Wiki and discogs have just got it wrong (after all anyone can write those entries).

I happen to know for a fact that Randy Hansen wrote that riff, despite what it says in the liner notes.

Publishing doesn't mean anything.... the Sly Stone re-releases are all credited to MiJac, does that mean Michael wrote them?

As for Randy Hansen's work - he was a teenager at the time, living in the area. More than likely, he did not have his own publishing company and probably wasn't even registered with ASCAP, meaning that he wouldn't get any royalties anyway due to not being registered.

Chances are Michael just struck a deal with him to credit him for lyrics, and paid him upfront rather than having him listed as a composer (if he was registered as a composer, ASCAP would be paying Michael less for the royalties based on the percentage split).

As for Wiki and discogs getting it wrong - Randy as credited on the album credits. But as you said, for lyrics.

I think the idea of Freddie Mercury turning down a writing credit, and the two of them just arbitrarily deciding to give the credit to another artist, or making up a name that just happened to be the name of another artist, a guitarist, on a song that is based around a guitar riff, is more far fetched than what you're suggesting happened

Well if you know he did co-write and he has said so, then fair enough LOL. But nothing on his bio mentions it. (I just checked LOL) mentioned it. And discogs and wiki gets so many things wrong LOL. He released an album in 1980, so surely he must of had a publishing company. Someone email him LOL.

Militant said:

thesexofit said:Hmm, Iam not sure about this one. I read it somewhere that is was Freddie. If you look at the credits, it only credits Mike's publishing. Also "Randy" only wrote the lyrics with Mike, NOT the music. Mike wrote the music on his own, which suggests that Freddie only helped him with the lyrics (after all it was only a demo I imagine). Mike came up with the riff on his own then, which makes it unlikely the real Randy Hensen would of popped into the studio one day to help Michael with the lyrics, particually as he is a guitarist with no real history of being a pop session man like Steve Lukather, Dan Huff etc... in other words the "Victory" album, along with all of the Quincy era of Mike's career, is chock full of La hired guns. "Victory" is included and I can't imagine the real Randy Hansen would just co-write lyrics to a Michael Jackson demo and nothing else. Just seems too far fetched. I think Wiki and discogs have just got it wrong (after all anyone can write those entries).

As for Randy Hansen's work - he was a teenager at the time, living in the area.

I've missed most of this Randy Hansen conversation but i think you're right. As it turns out, i distinctly remember reading that when it came out, there was a bit of negative press in the UK that he'd written it with a teenager, possibly a fan.

It's a bit of a mystery though.

[Edited 9/16/10 17:50pm]

thesexofit said:

bboy87 said:

That makes sense too, because when listening to the demo, the lyrics and the song structure is all there

I think its Freddie. It's just coincidence that Freddie's alias is someone who actually exists in the music industry LOL. Rather kindly, Freddie gave him full ownership publishing wise (or never contested it), which is another indicator its not the real Randy Hansen as surely he would want co-writing royalties. Why wouldn't Freddie? Maybe because they were once mates? Who knows.....

I read Michael caught Freddie doing drugs (cocaine) in a studio bathroom and that ended their friendship. A shame that nothing ever progressed passed demo's. Could you imagine both of them onstage together?

[Edited 9/16/10 17:31pm]

I've always wondered about that rumor but I don't think it's true. he and Freddie remained friends until Freddie's passing

Marrk said:

Militant said:

As for Randy Hansen's work - he was a teenager at the time, living in the area.

I've missed most of this Randy Hansen conversation but i think you're right. As it turns out, i distinctly remember reading that when it came out, there was a bit of negative press in the UK that he'd written it with a teenager, possibly a fan.

It's a bit of a mystery though.

[Edited 9/16/10 17:50pm]

Randy Hansen, the person it links to on Wiki and discogs was born in 1954 LOL. He was no teenager in 1983/1984 LOL, unless he did write it in the 60's/early 70's LOL and gave it to Mike later on.

bboy87 said:

thesexofit said:

I think its Freddie. It's just coincidence that Freddie's alias is someone who actually exists in the music industry LOL. Rather kindly, Freddie gave him full ownership publishing wise (or never contested it), which is another indicator its not the real Randy Hansen as surely he would want co-writing royalties. Why wouldn't Freddie? Maybe because they were once mates? Who knows.....

I read Michael caught Freddie doing drugs (cocaine) in a studio bathroom and that ended their friendship. A shame that nothing ever progressed passed demo's. Could you imagine both of them onstage together?

[Edited 9/16/10 17:31pm]

I've always wondered about that rumor but I don't think it's true. he and Freddie remained friends until Freddie's passing

Freddie talked about the situation on a radio show around the time apparantly (a rarity for Freddie). I think it's true. Mike's a health freak we know that. Freddie got caught so that was that. Mike didn't say anything when Freddie did pass away, which was abit sad. (though Liz Taylor, on her own behalf of course, did go to his tribute concert).

thesexofit said:

Marrk said:

I've missed most of this Randy Hansen conversation but i think you're right. As it turns out, i distinctly remember reading that when it came out, there was a bit of negative press in the UK that he'd written it with a teenager, possibly a fan.

It's a bit of a mystery though.

[Edited 9/16/10 17:50pm]

Randy Hansen, the person it links to on Wiki and discogs was born in 1954 LOL. He was no teenager in 1983/1984 LOL, unless he did write it in the 60's/early 70's LOL and gave it to Mike later on.

This Randy Hansen person could literally be anyone at all really. My belief is nobody actually knows who this person is, websites aren't infallible, especially Wiki.

Marrk said:

thesexofit said:

Randy Hansen, the person it links to on Wiki and discogs was born in 1954 LOL. He was no teenager in 1983/1984 LOL, unless he did write it in the 60's/early 70's LOL and gave it to Mike later on.

This Randy Hansen person could literally be anyone at all really. My belief is nobody actually knows who this person is, websites aren't infallible, especially Wiki.

I already said websites can't always be trusted LOL.

The confusion continues

DUPE.

midiscover said:

DUPE.

Not at all, this is about a song featuring Mick Jagger, Freddie Mercury and a guy that just happens to be called Michael Jackson. Besides there is a mystery that has evolved that is quite interesting.

[Edited 9/16/10 18:27pm]

It's kinda moot since I'm almost positive that Randy Hansen did co-write this song, but another point regarding the whole "Freddie's alias" rumor - as a longterm Queen fan, this song doesn't have any of the hallmarks or traits of Freddie's songwriting, neither musically OR lyrically.

I don't believe he had anything to do with the writing of the song.

Marrk said:

midiscover said:

DUPE.

Not at all, this is about a song featuring Mick Jagger, Freddie Mercury and a guy that just happens to be called Michael Jackson. Besides there is a mystery that has evolved that is quite interesting.

[Edited 9/16/10 18:27pm]

Too late

Militant said:

It's kinda moot since I'm almost positive that Randy Hansen did co-write this song, but another point regarding the whole "Freddie's alias" rumor - as a longterm Queen fan, this song doesn't have any of the hallmarks or traits of Freddie's songwriting, neither musically OR lyrically.

I don't believe he had anything to do with the writing of the song.

Meh, he only co-wrote the lyrics to a song thats clearly a rough demo in the first place. So it's minimal input on "Randy's" behalf to begin with, so who knows? Particually as the lyrics are so cliched. Anyone could of written them.

thesexofit said:

the lyrics are so cliched. Anyone could of written them.

Exactly. Even on "autopilot", Freddie wouldn't write lyrics like these. There was always something clever about them. If Freddie had ANY lyrical input on this song, it would be obvious..... especially if you've studied his songwriting like I have.

Furthermore, he wouldn't turn down a writing credit for something he worked on, either.

Militant said:

thesexofit said:

the lyrics are so cliched. Anyone could of written them.

Exactly. Even on "autopilot", Freddie wouldn't write lyrics like these. There was always something clever about them. If Freddie had ANY lyrical input on this song, it would be obvious..... especially if you've studied his songwriting like I have.

Furthermore, he wouldn't turn down a writing credit for something he worked on, either.

I think the US Copyright Office has him credited, but I gotta check

Michael isn't credited for There Must Be More To Life Than This and from what Peter wrote, he was coming up with the lyrics as he went along

bboy87 said:

Kinda off topic, but I'm thinking of the songs that were considered for the Victory album

Torture

Wait

One More Chance

Be Not Always

State Of Shock

We Can Change The World

The Hurt

Body

----

Where Do I Stand (later released solo by Marlon)

Still In Love With You

Liberian Girl (later released on Bad)

Buffalo Bill

Victory

There Must Be More To Life Than This (later released solo by Freddie)

Power

Nona

Doing Dirty

LittleBlueCorvette probably knows some more titles

and I believe Tell Me I'm Not Dreamin' should've been on the album

There's a few more with Marlon and Micheal.

Militant said:

thesexofit said:

the lyrics are so cliched. Anyone could of written them.

Exactly. Even on "autopilot", Freddie wouldn't write lyrics like these. There was always something clever about them. If Freddie had ANY lyrical input on this song, it would be obvious..... especially if you've studied his songwriting like I have.

Furthermore, he wouldn't turn down a writing credit for something he worked on, either.

Thats the main stumbling block for me to "solve" this mystery aswell LOL. But the no publishing sharing is a strange one. I know you've given possible reasons (as have I), but it doesn't all add up. Not quite LOL.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

bboy87 said:

Kinda off topic, but I'm thinking of the songs that were considered for the Victory album

Torture

Wait

One More Chance

Be Not Always

State Of Shock

We Can Change The World

The Hurt

Body

----

Where Do I Stand (later released solo by Marlon)

Still In Love With You

Liberian Girl (later released on Bad)

Buffalo Bill

Victory

There Must Be More To Life Than This (later released solo by Freddie)

Power

Nona

Doing Dirty

LittleBlueCorvette probably knows some more titles

and I believe Tell Me I'm Not Dreamin' should've been on the album

There's a few more with Marlon and Micheal.

If the MJJVault was working, I'd be able to get the titles

and my copy of For The Record is missing at the moment

bboy87 said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

There's a few more with Marlon and Micheal.

If the MJJVault was working, I'd be able to get the titles

and my copy of For The Record is missing at the moment

Hey I solved "Power" for you. Well not solved it, but at least you have an idea of what it might of sounded like.

Probably each of the brothers worked on a few tracks each. Except Jermaine (most surprisenly), as he apparantly came very late into the whole project (it was meant to a Jackie and Michael duetting on "Torture", Jackie produced the track and did the music and co-wrote the lyrics. Iam glad its Jermaine on the duet though).

Jackie's other cut "Wait", is one of my all time fav Jackson related cuts. I love "Torture" aswell. Its very dated, but thats probably why I love it. It's awesome the way Michael comes into the second verse. He sounds better on that one verse, then on all of "State of shock" to me (not that he sounded bad on "State of shock" mind).

thesexofit said:

Jackie's other cut "Wait", is one of my all time fav Jackson related cuts.

Then you might like this track I did a few months back