[img:$uid]http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/9/3/1283529634767/Morrissey-001.jpg[/img:$uid]

Okay, here's the deal: the article's called Morrissey reignites racis...ubspecies' but ... well, read it yourself and draw your own conclusions. Here's the original interview wi...n Armitage and an opinion piece in which Tom Clark states the obvious.

My conclusion? Love Music Hate Racism needs to refund his £28,000 donation with a quickness.

UptownCitizen said:

[img:$uid]http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/9/3/1283529634767/Morrissey-001.jpg[/img:$uid]

Okay, here's the deal: the article's called Morrissey reignites racis...ubspecies' but ... well, read it yourself and draw your own conclusions. Here's the original interview wi...n Armitage and an opinion piece in which Tom Clark states the obvious.

My conclusion? Love Music Hate Racism needs to refund his £28,000 donation with a quickness.

I know what he meant....but the trouble is he has such a big mouth and has an opinion on everything that he doesnt stop to think that perhaps he shouldnt be saying what hes saying

As far as I'm concerned, eating meat in this day and age, for anyone that can easily make the compassionate choice to not kill animals (ie everyone except those in third-world countries), is Neanderthal behaviour. That's why I'm a vegan.

So I know exactly where Mozza is coming from and I support the original statement.

I understand what he's doing. This is an interview for people in the Western world, so he's playing on the Western mindframe where animals like cats/dogs are valued members of a household and not food.

Of course, you break it down and Morrissey and I share the same ethos - cats/dogs are no more or less valued than chickens/cows. It's just that in Western culture, it's unacceptable to eat cats/dogs, but somehow it's OK to eat chickens/cows because the Western mindframe teaches people that they are of lesser value, for some unknown reason.

So I also understand why he worded it this way.

The Chinese could be considered a "lesser culture" or "subspecies" to those in the Western world because they eat cats/dogs and Western culture finds that morally wrong, because cats/dogs have VALUE to us as pets and companions.

Equally - someone born and raised in India might consider people in the Western world as a "lesser culture" or "subspecies", because in India, cows have value. They are considered holy. You do NOT kill cows in India. It's simply not done, the way we don't kill cats/dogs here. There's no beef eaten in India. That's how it is there.

So Morrissey is simply trying to make people think.

There are so called "animal lovers" here in the West that'll take the utmost care of their pet dogs and/or cats, then slurp up a steak at the end of the day and think nothing of it.

So, to those people, I would pose the question - WHAT makes the life of a cow/pig/chicken any LESS valuable than that of a dog or cat? And would you be happy to be considered a "subspecies" by people of a culture that consider those animals you are eating to have value?

I've witnessed people eating tarantulas in south east asia. Awesome it was, though i passed on the opportunity myself.

That man is a cunt.

Militant said:

As far as I'm concerned, eating meat in this day and age, for anyone that can easily make the compassionate choice to not kill animals (ie everyone except those in third-world countries), is Neanderthal behaviour. That's why I'm a vegan.

So I know exactly where Mozza is coming from and I support the original statement.

I understand what he's doing. This is an interview for people in the Western world, so he's playing on the Western mindframe where animals like cats/dogs are valued members of a household and not food.

Of course, you break it down and Morrissey and I share the same ethos - cats/dogs are no more or less valued than chickens/cows. It's just that in Western culture, it's unacceptable to eat cats/dogs, but somehow it's OK to eat chickens/cows because the Western mindframe teaches people that they are of lesser value, for some unknown reason.

So I also understand why he worded it this way.

The Chinese could be considered a "lesser culture" or "subspecies" to those in the Western world because they eat cats/dogs and Western culture finds that morally wrong, because cats/dogs have VALUE to us as pets and companions.

Equally - someone born and raised in India might consider people in the Western world as a "lesser culture" or "subspecies", because in India, cows have value. They are considered holy. You do NOT kill cows in India. It's simply not done, the way we don't kill cats/dogs here. There's no beef eaten in India. That's how it is there.

So Morrissey is simply trying to make people think.

There are so called "animal lovers" here in the West that'll take the utmost care of their pet dogs and/or cats, then slurp up a steak at the end of the day and think nothing of it.

So, to those people, I would pose the question - WHAT makes the life of a cow/pig/chicken any LESS valuable than that of a dog or cat? And would you be happy to be considered a "subspecies" by people of a culture that consider those animals you are eating to have value?

co-sign all that man

[Edited 9/5/10 8:37am]

MattyJam said:

That man is a cunt.

why ?

because the truth is incovenient ?

MattyJam said:

purpledoveuk said:

MattyJam said:

That man is a cunt.

I happen to agree to, but he's entitled to his opinion and way of life as long as he appreciates other are too. But...anybody that has been around as long as he has (and still insists on churning out his musical drivel with a sense of over-importance) who then takes money to so a festival should complete the whole set without storming off regardless of whether there is a BBQ within 100 miles . Maybe it just musicians who abuse thief position to force their views...but I can't stand him, Bono, Paul McCartney, Jools Holland...

I think you're not seeing the "urgency" of the issue... when animals are being skinned alive, it goes far beyond just a political viewpoint...

If humans were being killed in this way and someone was speaking out against it... would we say he was forcing his views on the public?

purpledoveuk said:

I know what he meant....but the trouble is he has such a big mouth and has an opinion on everything that he doesnt stop to think that perhaps he shouldnt be saying what hes saying

I assume that people say what they mean - especially people who get paid for knowing their way around a word or two.

I don't have an issue with his anger or his right to say whatever's on his mind. I'm glad he's being honest. My issue is that, based on his own words, he's a racist fuck masquerading as someone who believes in equality.

I respect peoples choices whatever they eat (personally I do eat meat). I don't have an issue with what he's getting at, he just got a bit flustered when he said it. I do however take issue with anyone forcing their opinion down peoples throats on any subject - religion, homophobia, racism etc I'm not going to get into an argument

I don't eat meat either, for many reasons.

Again, I don't have a problem with his having an opinion; I have a problem with his opinion. Another assumption I make of adults who share their opinions is their ability to defend them. That's how it works.

I'm really replying to your comments because, in both of them, you make excuses for him. Do you know him personally? Were you there at that interview? Probably not ... but you know him well enough to excuse him from doing some really heinous shit. (Not to mention that he's done it before.)

Yes, animal cruelty is really fucked up, but suggesting that a whole population of people are genetically predisposed to animal cruelty and that they're less than human because of where they happen to be born is just about as fucked up.

Militant said:

...

So I know exactly where Mozza is coming from and I support the original statement.

I understand what he's doing. This is an interview for people in the Western world, so he's playing on the Western mindframe where animals like cats/dogs are valued members of a household and not food.

...

So I also understand why he worded it this way.

The Chinese could be considered a "lesser culture" or "subspecies" to those in the Western world because they eat cats/dogs and Western culture finds that morally wrong, because cats/dogs have VALUE to us as pets and companions.

...

So Morrissey is simply trying to make people think.

Bullshit.

Marrk said:

I've witnessed people eating tarantulas in south east asia. Awesome it was, though i passed on the opportunity myself.

That really does sound revolting. I don't think I could stomach watching that. I'd probably have to stick to raw fruits & vegetables on that trip ... maybe some nuts

MattyJam said:

That man is a cunt.

Now, now - cunts are good! One thing that everyone has in common is that we all came from one!

It's just that he's a

crazydoctor said:

UptownCitizen said:

crazydoctor said:

purpledoveuk said:

MattyJam said: I happen to agree to, but he's entitled to his opinion and way of life as long as he appreciates other are too. But...anybody that has been around as long as he has (and still insists on churning out his musical drivel with a sense of over-importance) who then takes money to so a festival should complete the whole set without storming off regardless of whether there is a BBQ within 100 miles . Maybe it just musicians who abuse thief position to force their views...but I can't stand him, Bono, Paul McCartney, Jools Holland...

I think you're not seeing the "urgency" of the issue... when animals are being skinned alive, it goes far beyond just a political viewpoint...

If humans were being killed in this way and someone was speaking out against it... would we say he was forcing his views on the public?

UptownCitizen said:

crazydoctor said:

I think you're not seeing the "urgency" of the issue... when animals are being skinned alive, it goes far beyond just a political viewpoint...

If humans were being killed in this way and someone was speaking out against it... would we say he was forcing his views on the public?

I really don't buy that "he's just using racism as a tool to provoke thought" crap. Everybody in China isn't ... and dogs. What he's doing is proving himself to be a racist fuck. He knows that other people used (and still use) exactly the same premise and language to allow and promote shit like, um, slave trade. "They're not as human as I am, so there really is no problem with me recognizing that and being as inhuman to them as I want to be - especially if I can profit from it." It begins exactly the same way.

I think he was deliberetaly being shocking to draw attention to the issue. I'm sure he doesn't believe the chinese are actually a subspecies or everyone in china is doing this.

It's probably a misguided attempt to draw attention to the issue. But given the urgency of the situation, I understand it... If I believed saying racist things would stop an animal from being skinned alive, I'd say those things too.

gods, how is morrissey relevant anymore? i mean im a vegetarian myself. its just this day and age how is he relevant anymore. me thinks he wants attention. if thats the case realize a good album.

Somebody fashioned this post just so someone could say cunt.

2freaky4church1 said:

Somebody fashioned this post just so someone could say cunt.

yes..i felt that cunting vibe..

MattyJam said:

That man is a cunt.

LOL

He's a preening, whining, spunkhaired git. This is the guy that penned Bengali In Platforms, so I think his racist tendencies have always been clear despite his strivings at sophistication.

crazydoctor said:

UptownCitizen said:

I really don't buy that "he's just using racism as a tool to provoke thought" crap. Everybody in China isn't ... and dogs. What he's doing is proving himself to be a racist fuck. He knows that other people used (and still use) exactly the same premise and language to allow and promote shit like, um, slave trade. "They're not as human as I am, so there really is no problem with me recognizing that and being as inhuman to them as I want to be - especially if I can profit from it." It begins exactly the same way.

I think he was deliberetaly being shocking to draw attention to the issue. I'm sure he doesn't believe the chinese are actually a subspecies or everyone in china is doing this.

It's probably a misguided attempt to draw attention to the issue. But given the urgency of the situation, I understand it... If I believed saying racist things would stop an animal from being skinned alive, I'd say those things too.

[img:$uid]http://blacksportsonline.com/index/tmac.gif[/img:$uid]

Timmy84 said:

crazydoctor said:

I think he was deliberetaly being shocking to draw attention to the issue. I'm sure he doesn't believe the chinese are actually a subspecies or everyone in china is doing this.

It's probably a misguided attempt to draw attention to the issue. But given the urgency of the situation, I understand it... If I believed saying racist things would stop an animal from being skinned alive, I'd say those things too.

[img:$uid]http://blacksportsonline.com/index/tmac.gif[/img:$uid]

Militant said:

As far as I'm concerned, eating meat in this day and age, for anyone that can easily make the compassionate choice to not kill animals (ie everyone except those in third-world countries), is Neanderthal behaviour. That's why I'm a vegan.

So I know exactly where Mozza is coming from and I support the original statement.

I understand what he's doing. This is an interview for people in the Western world, so he's playing on the Western mindframe where animals like cats/dogs are valued members of a household and not food.

Of course, you break it down and Morrissey and I share the same ethos - cats/dogs are no more or less valued than chickens/cows. It's just that in Western culture, it's unacceptable to eat cats/dogs, but somehow it's OK to eat chickens/cows because the Western mindframe teaches people that they are of lesser value, for some unknown reason.

So I also understand why he worded it this way.

The Chinese could be considered a "lesser culture" or "subspecies" to those in the Western world because they eat cats/dogs and Western culture finds that morally wrong, because cats/dogs have VALUE to us as pets and companions.

Equally - someone born and raised in India might consider people in the Western world as a "lesser culture" or "subspecies", because in India, cows have value. They are considered holy. You do NOT kill cows in India. It's simply not done, the way we don't kill cats/dogs here. There's no beef eaten in India. That's how it is there.

So Morrissey is simply trying to make people think.

There are so called "animal lovers" here in the West that'll take the utmost care of their pet dogs and/or cats, then slurp up a steak at the end of the day and think nothing of it.

So, to those people, I would pose the question - WHAT makes the life of a cow/pig/chicken any LESS valuable than that of a dog or cat? And would you be happy to be considered a "subspecies" by people of a culture that consider those animals you are eating to have value?

Completely and utterly disagree with the majorite of what you say here. Eating meat is part of our diet because we are born omnivores. It is an essential part of a primate diet. To call all non-vegans neandertals is ridiculous, not to mention rather egocentric (*I'm not a neanderthal, but you all are cuz you aren't as righteous as I).

=0P

i agree completely with hero0101 statement.

and to confess something

i'm not myself a fully vegetarian(i eat fish once in a while)

baroque said:

gods, how is morrissey relevant anymore? i mean im a vegetarian myself. its just this day and age how is he relevant anymore. me thinks he wants attention. if thats the case realize a good album.

Attention? Like this?

[img:$uid]http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg250/esteban1974/2106332-1.jpg[/img:$uid]

Um, okay ...

baroque said:

2freaky4church1 said:

Somebody fashioned this post just so someone could say cunt.

yes..i felt that cunting vibe..

Why stop there? While you're at it, you can also charge me with taking Morrissey's call the night before and letting him come over to eat my ass out in exchange for promising to dehumanize China in that interview just so I'd have something to post about in this forum the day after. Go ahead.

Timmy84 said:

crazydoctor said:

I think he was deliberetaly being shocking to draw attention to the issue. I'm sure he doesn't believe the chinese are actually a subspecies or everyone in china is doing this.

It's probably a misguided attempt to draw attention to the issue. But given the urgency of the situation, I understand it... If I believed saying racist things would stop an animal from being skinned alive, I'd say those things too.

[img:$uid]http://blacksportsonline.com/index/tmac.gif[/img:$uid]

Wasn't this the same loser who made a vile remark about Pakistani and Indian people who live in the UK before and also said "England For The English" in one of his songs?

Yeah, I get that he's speaking from a Westernized view point, but I can't really shake the sense of superiority in his speech, that his lifestyle should be the model of civilization and the rest are,,,well,,,,,barbarians.

Condescending the differences of other cultures? Now THAT is the ultimate Neanderthal behaviour.

Hero0101 said:

Completely and utterly disagree with the majorite of what you say here. Eating meat is part of our diet because we are born omnivores. It is an essential part of a primate diet. To call all non-vegans neandertals is ridiculous, not to mention rather egocentric (*I'm not a neanderthal, but you all are cuz you aren't as righteous as I).

=0P

Bollocks. We aren't born SHIT. Diet is a choice.

It's essential? So explain why since I became vegan I've been healthier than I've ever been. Read any book on nutrition and realize that meat and dairy are the biggest factors in bad health.

It's not about being "righteous", it's about being compassionate. Something you obviously lack.

Killing animals for one's own benefit = selfish and disgusting.

Militant said:

purpledoveuk said:

Militant said:

Bollocks. We aren't born SHIT. Diet is a choice.

It's essential? So explain why since I became vegan I've been healthier than I've ever been. Read any book on nutrition and realize that meat and dairy are the biggest factors in bad health.

It's not about being "righteous", it's about being compassionate. Something you obviously lack.

Killing animals for one's own benefit = selfish and disgusting.

Choice...you said it. Although the fact we have canine teeth, our appendix don't do shit and meat provides fairly unique essential dietary nutrients would suggest that, as a species, we haven't evolved away from meat yet. But it's a choice...however you need to distinguish between killing for pleasure (foxes) and killing for food

Diet is a choice, and there's no reason for anyone in the Western world to not make the compassionate one.

As for unique nutrients, that's bullshit. You know there are plenty of vegan bodybuilders?

We do not NEED to kill for food. Plus, we pass the buck by letting the slaughterhouses commit the atrocities.

I maintain that if everybody had to physically kill the animals they eat themselves, most people would be vegetarian/vegan.

There are three issues flowing through this thread; race, animal cruelty and the criteria that allows someone to use the first to force people to look at the second.

Being an vegan/vegetarian animal rights advocate does not excuse you from racism, facism, sexism or just generally being fucked up and wrong towards other human beings. Sorry. No matter how many cats you adopt or how many Lärabars you eat or how many wheatgrass shots you throw back. And if you believe that your choices entitle you to deem other people as less than human for whatever reason, what's to stop those other people from doing the same to you and acting accordingly?

I think Morrissey had an incredible opportunity to draw his audience's attention to animal cruelty that he unfortunately pissed away by revealing himself to being a fucked-up racist git. Again. That ugliness trumps any beautiful song he may have written.

[Edited 9/6/10 9:43am]

Militant said: