As I have said it goes to show that this is how MJ rehearsed, with stuff still in the tank and not going out full ball - and saving it for performance nights.
Hopefully it sheds new light for those who felt THIS IS IT was proof MJ wasn't well cause it wasn't him at 100%. It just shows, this is how MJ rehearses.
"I'm not human I'm a dove, I'm ur conscience. I am love"
As for people changing their tune of Michael post his death. I think it's natural.
When someone is gone you tend to reassess their worth. And for a lot of people they put aside the tabloid Michael and instead focused on the artist Michael. If it made them think of him a positive light, then I shouldn't hold it against them.
After all, as a fan I always wanted Michael to be viewed for the music he produced and talent he had. If people are finally seeing it now, then I welcome it. I just wish his death didn't have the be the catalyst for it - I truly believe the O2 gigs would have gone a long way to do that.
"I'm not human I'm a dove, I'm ur conscience. I am love"
that's as fat as I've ever seen him. the whole family had a tendency to get thick in the middle, probably a result of being part Indian (my people) we all have that build. But i have to say, so far he llooks much better than the show at MSG.
As for people changing their tune of Michael post his death. I think it's natural.
When someone is gone you tend to reassess their worth. And for a lot of people they put aside the tabloid Michael and instead focused on the artist Michael. If it made them think of him a positive light, then I shouldn't hold it against them.
After all, as a fan I always wanted Michael to be viewed for the music he produced and talent he had. If people are finally seeing it now, then I welcome it. I just wish his death didn't have the be the catalyst for it - I truly believe the O2 gigs would have gone a long way to do that.
yes it is natural, death brings a different perspective, you'll never see that person alive again and it forces you to put all the BS aside, and with mike there was plenty of it to do that with. I was most struck by how Rosie O'donnell reacted and saw that as a general way many of the media and celebrities felt.
As for people changing their tune of Michael post his death. I think it's natural.
When someone is gone you tend to reassess their worth. And for a lot of people they put aside the tabloid Michael and instead focused on the artist Michael. If it made them think of him a positive light, then I shouldn't hold it against them.
After all, as a fan I always wanted Michael to be viewed for the music he produced and talent he had. If people are finally seeing it now, then I welcome it. I just wish his death didn't have the be the catalyst for it - I truly believe the O2 gigs would have gone a long way to do that.
yes it is natural, death brings a different perspective, you'll never see that person alive again and it forces you to put all the BS aside, and with mike there was plenty of it to do that with. I was most struck by how Rosie O'donnell reacted and saw that as a general way many of the media and celebrities felt.
Care to shed light on Rosie's reaction?
"I'm not human I'm a dove, I'm ur conscience. I am love"
someone posted it on here, one of the old mj threads, but it was full of sentiments, but she was supposedly not very nice to mike when he was here. i'm just using her as an example, pretty much a lot of people who killed him when he was alive reacted like that. I never denied being a fan myself no matter who said what.
someone posted it on here, one of the old mj threads, but it was full of sentiments, but she was supposedly not very nice to mike when he was here. i'm just using her as an example, pretty much a lot of people who killed him when he was alive reacted like that. I never denied being a fan myself no matter who said what.
Again it's natural. You know I have a lot of respect for people who admit they were wrong.
Like you I've been a fan for most of my life (since the Desitny album) and never waivered my support for Michael nor my enthusiasm for his music. I've been through the whole MJ who, to MJ being cool, to MJ not being cool, to MJ being cool again.
"I'm not human I'm a dove, I'm ur conscience. I am love"
Mike was just holding that cup cuz it matched his outfit. You know how he's a visual perfectionist
"If you enter this world knowing you are loved and you leave this world knowing the same, then everything that happens in between can be dealt with" - Michael Jackson
Her makeup actually isn't that bad here, but she should wear a bra...
"If you enter this world knowing you are loved and you leave this world knowing the same, then everything that happens in between can be dealt with" - Michael Jackson
someone posted it on here, one of the old mj threads, but it was full of sentiments, but she was supposedly not very nice to mike when he was here. i'm just using her as an example, pretty much a lot of people who killed him when he was alive reacted like that. I never denied being a fan myself no matter who said what.
Again it's natural. You know I have a lot of respect for people who admit they were wrong.
Like you I've been a fan for most of my life (since the Desitny album) and never waivered my support for Michael nor my enthusiasm for his music. I've been through the whole MJ who, to MJ being cool, to MJ not being cool, to MJ being cool again.
there were times when he lost me, there were times i didn't think about him as much but never has there been a time that I did not think he was one of the greats, and that he was underrated in certain areas because of his pop success.My first thought after he passed was (after the obvious sadness) was that white people are stuck with his accomplishments and his greatness whether they like it or not, and now that he's gone he's in an Elvis league, or a hendrix league where you have to face what these men accomplished, you can badmouth all you want but you are stuck with the fact that they did what they did.
Again it's natural. You know I have a lot of respect for people who admit they were wrong.
Like you I've been a fan for most of my life (since the Desitny album) and never waivered my support for Michael nor my enthusiasm for his music. I've been through the whole MJ who, to MJ being cool, to MJ not being cool, to MJ being cool again.
there were times when he lost me, there were times i didn't think about him as much but never has there been a time that I did not think he was one of the greats, and that he was underrated in certain areas because of his pop success.My first thought after he passed was (after the obvious sadness) was that white people are stuck with his accomplishments and his greatness whether they like it or not, and now that he's gone he's in an Elvis league, or a hendrix league where you have to face what these men accomplished, you can badmouth all you want but you are stuck with the fact that they did what they did.
It reminds me of how when any young singer would have huge success, they'd write "The New King Of Pop" or "[insert name here] takes Michael's throne"
Usher
Justin Timberlake
Bobby Brown
Ralph Tresvant
Tevin Campbell
Ne-Yo
Chris Brown
Sisqo
Omarion
and they all pretty much failed but I see the press doing the same with Justin Beiber and I wonder how that's going to turn out
Another thing I'm reminded of is the recent VH1 100 Greatest Artists list and how I've read Elvis and Beatles fans aren't happy with his ranking (along with Prince fans being pissed as you can see in Music and More )
The man with all his successes, is STILL underestimated in my opinion
"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
well, they all have detractors, but the impact they had when they were alive was so deep and lasting that none of the naysayers matter. Unless someone uses revisionist history there is no changing the fact that michael has and will have the biggest selling album ever, or that he took the new medium of video and was the visionary force to put it way, way into the future. As he said as a young man "I wanted thriller to be a stimulus" and that's exactly what it was.
The man with all his successes, is STILL underestimated in my opinion
For me, what it is, is that there are certain moments in time, certain instances, perhaps even certain songs, that are over-rated when considering the scope and depth of his overall career.
And many of the instances, songs, videos, moments that we as big fans love him for, are under-rated and in some cases unknown by the general public and/or casual fans.
The man with all his successes, is STILL underestimated in my opinion
For me, what it is, is that there are certain moments in time, certain instances, perhaps even certain songs, that are over-rated when considering the scope and depth of his overall career.
And many of the instances, songs, videos, moments that we as big fans love him for, are under-rated and in some cases unknown by the general public and/or casual fans.
that's true of Elvis for me too, some of his best shit no one has even ever heard. Critics wax poetic on some of it but outside of that, even hardcore fans don't know about "Stranger In My Own Hometown" and many many others. With Michael, after the mess he was in, he did some great work, History had potent moving stuff on it, as did Blood on The Dancefloor, and Threatened from invincible, in fact, I don't know, I might say that some of this stuff may have been his best from an artistic point of view. Morphine, or They don't care about us great great songs which all had a lot of work and thought put into them, probably more than some of his stuff on thriller and off the wall. Of course the music of anyone is all subjective to listeners, but the hard stats remain for all to see.
there were times when he lost me, there were times i didn't think about him as much but never has there been a time that I did not think he was one of the greats, and that he was underrated in certain areas because of his pop success.My first thought after he passed was (after the obvious sadness) was that white people are stuck with his accomplishments and his greatness whether they like it or not, and now that he's gone he's in an Elvis league, or a hendrix league where you have to face what these men accomplished, you can badmouth all you want but you are stuck with the fact that they did what they did.
It reminds me of how when any young singer would have huge success, they'd write "The New King Of Pop" or "[insert name here] takes Michael's throne"
Usher
Justin Timberlake
Bobby Brown
Ralph Tresvant
Tevin Campbell
Ne-Yo
Chris Brown
Sisqo
Omarion
and they all pretty much failed but I see the press doing the same with Justin Beiber and I wonder how that's going to turn out
Another thing I'm reminded of is the recent VH1 100 Greatest Artists list and how I've read Elvis and Beatles fans aren't happy with his ranking (along with Prince fans being pissed as you can see in Music and More )
The man with all his successes, is STILL underestimated in my opinion
Man the way Beaver's going I don't think he'll get any farther than those listed. Hell his output now don't even INDICATE what would happen. Michael was unique. Something none of the contemporary pop artists they compare him with have. And I agree people don't know how gifted and talented the man was. But hey let them be ignorant to it I guess...
there were times when he lost me, there were times i didn't think about him as much but never has there been a time that I did not think he was one of the greats, and that he was underrated in certain areas because of his pop success.My first thought after he passed was (after the obvious sadness) was that white people are stuck with his accomplishments and his greatness whether they like it or not, and now that he's gone he's in an Elvis league, or a hendrix league where you have to face what these men accomplished, you can badmouth all you want but you are stuck with the fact that they did what they did.
It reminds me of how when any young singer would have huge success, they'd write "The New King Of Pop" or "[insert name here] takes Michael's throne"
Usher
Justin Timberlake
Bobby Brown
Ralph Tresvant
Tevin Campbell
Ne-Yo
Chris Brown
Sisqo
Omarion
and they all pretty much failed but I see the press doing the same with Justin Beiber and I wonder how that's going to turn out
Another thing I'm reminded of is the recent VH1 100 Greatest Artists list and how I've read Elvis and Beatles fans aren't happy with his ranking (along with Prince fans being pissed as you can see in Music and More )
The man with all his successes, is STILL underestimated in my opinion
Fail when it comes to new King of Pop? Yes, but as far as having a sucessful solo career Usher and Justin have had great solo careers and proven longevity in the music business. When you really look at at MJ has really only had maybe 3 great albums. Depends on your taste and style. Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad. The Dangerous album i thought Teddy Riley's best work was with the group Guy. I did like Remember The Time, In The Closet, Who is it. The other tracks are mediocre to me. Not the multiple great tracks like previous albums. History was aiight, Blood on the Dance Floor aiiight and Invincible had Butterflies, Break Of Dawn, Heaven Can Wait, Whatever Happens. The rest was aiight at best.
Usher has also had 3 great albums in My Way, 8701, Confessions with the difference being Usher is in the internet era which hurts sales. Put Usher in the 80s or early 1990s and instead of Confessions selling 9 million in the USA it sales 20 million USA alone. MC freaking Hammer sold like 13 million in the USA. It would be interesting to see Usher and Justin along with many other current artist in the era without internet downloading and getting entire albums off Youtube weeks before it even comes out. If they can sell 7 to 10 million in the USA in this era, imagine in the 80s.
^^I don't think anyone's denying the fact that Usher and Timberlake have had successful solo careers so far. However, not one person on that list of "New King of Pop's" has that...what was it that lady said in the movie...? Oh, yeah...that GOO, that OOZE comin' out of 'em!
Michael had the GOO. Michael had the OOZE. Michael had the GOO and the OOZE since he was a tyke. At that young age, those other cats were going to elementary school, doing skits on the Mickey Mouse show, trying to get a break on Star Search, etc, etc, etc...
Her makeup actually isn't that bad here, but she should wear a bra...
Yeah I noticed too. She needs one.
Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
"I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben
I've been an MJ fan since 1989. I'm 22 years old, so you do the math Literally before I could walk or talk. And I was an obsessive fan. I pretty much didn't even care about any non-Jackson family music until I was 10.
So I remember how it was - not just in the post Bashir/trial days. I remember the mid 90's and the way kids at my school would talk about Michael after the first accusations. All the plastic surgery jokes, etc, etc. I would literally cry about it when I was a kid and they'd say all that stuff.
So when I see people now and they try and act like they never said all that stuff - because obviously it's even more nasty to talk trash about a dead man, it's a strange situation. They know that I haven't forgotten the way they used to talk. And it's awkward at times.
But it's not right for me to act all smug about it, as if they're now realizing something I've always known... even though that IS the case. Nobody likes somebody acting like that.
But the people that act like they were always fans/supporters when I know damn well they weren't.... it's kinda frustrating, sure. But I can't hate on it either.
If death was what it took to bring those people round, then it just sucks for them that they weren't able to appreciate a genius whilst he was alive - and maybe next time they won't be so quick to judge someone purely on trashy media sensationalism and hyperbole.
We are so much alike it's getting scary
I feel y'all... very similar. fan since 1987and i'm 25. perfomed mike songs at school like 3 or 4 times.....prior to high school even dressed up like mike with the dirty diana hair and outfit to school. always defended mike bought all records that came out after i was born that had SOMETHING to do with mike. it was only mike & stevie cause of my father for me till i was 15 or 16 then folks like prince came along.
It reminds me of how when any young singer would have huge success, they'd write "The New King Of Pop" or "[insert name here] takes Michael's throne"
Usher
Justin Timberlake
Bobby Brown
Ralph Tresvant
Tevin Campbell
Ne-Yo
Chris Brown
Sisqo
Omarion
and they all pretty much failed but I see the press doing the same with Justin Beiber and I wonder how that's going to turn out
Another thing I'm reminded of is the recent VH1 100 Greatest Artists list and how I've read Elvis and Beatles fans aren't happy with his ranking (along with Prince fans being pissed as you can see in Music and More )
The man with all his successes, is STILL underestimated in my opinion
Fail when it comes to new King of Pop? Yes, but as far as having a sucessful solo career Usher and Justin have had great solo careers and proven longevity in the music business. When you really look at at MJ has really only had maybe 3 great albums.
Yes, it does really depend on your taste. I think history has some of his best stuff and you know, I don't think he was as reliant on a Riley or Jones figure to produce it and that's why some of this stuff is some of his best at least to me. He had some misses, but he still had his own sound going, a crisp, trebly, distinct sound with complex rhythms and great bass lines. I think history has some of his finest songwriting. In retrospect, I'd have to say that Bad is one of my least favorite albums, don't get me wrong, a great album but lots which I would call filler. I think the stevie song, liberian girl, songs not really up to Mikes' caliber.
Fail when it comes to new King of Pop? Yes, but as far as having a sucessful solo career Usher and Justin have had great solo careers and proven longevity in the music business. When you really look at at MJ has really only had maybe 3 great albums.
Yes, it does really depend on your taste. I think history has some of his best stuff and you know, I don't think he was as reliant on a Riley or Jones figure to produce it and that's why some of this stuff is some of his best at least to me. He had some misses, but he still had his own sound going, a crisp, trebly, distinct sound with complex rhythms and great bass lines. I think history has some of his finest songwriting. In retrospect, I'd have to say that Bad is one of my least favorite albums, don't get me wrong, a great album but lots which I would call filler. I think the stevie song, liberian girl, songs not really up to Mikes' caliber.
I think Usher's Confessions album blows away Dangerous, Blood on the Dance Floor and Invincible if you listen to the music and forget about the popularity of the artist. I guess im a fan of MJ's Off The Wall and Thriller flava.
It reminds me of how when any young singer would have huge success, they'd write "The New King Of Pop" or "[insert name here] takes Michael's throne"
Usher
Justin Timberlake
Bobby Brown
Ralph Tresvant
Tevin Campbell
Ne-Yo
Chris Brown
Sisqo
Omarion
and they all pretty much failed but I see the press doing the same with Justin Beiber and I wonder how that's going to turn out
Another thing I'm reminded of is the recent VH1 100 Greatest Artists list and how I've read Elvis and Beatles fans aren't happy with his ranking (along with Prince fans being pissed as you can see in Music and More )
The man with all his successes, is STILL underestimated in my opinion
Fail when it comes to new King of Pop? Yes, but as far as having a sucessful solo career Usher and Justin have had great solo careers and proven longevity in the music business. When you really look at at MJ has really only had maybe 3 great albums. Depends on your taste and style. Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad. The Dangerous album i thought Teddy Riley's best work was with the group Guy. I did like Remember The Time, In The Closet, Who is it. The other tracks are mediocre to me. Not the multiple great tracks like previous albums. History was aiight, Blood on the Dance Floor aiiight and Invincible had Butterflies, Break Of Dawn, Heaven Can Wait, Whatever Happens. The rest was aiight at best.
Usher has also had 3 great albums in My Way, 8701, Confessions with the difference being Usher is in the internet era which hurts sales. Put Usher in the 80s or early 1990s and instead of Confessions selling 9 million in the USA it sales 20 million USA alone. MC freaking Hammer sold like 13 million in the USA. It would be interesting to see Usher and Justin along with many other current artist in the era without internet downloading and getting entire albums off Youtube weeks before it even comes out. If they can sell 7 to 10 million in the USA in this era, imagine in the 80s.
Did I say they didn't have successful careers? No
I said that when they reached a certain level of success, the media was running around saying they were the next king of pop or that they were already legends....and some of those guys barely had 10 years on the timesheet
Sisqo had the thong song and people were saying "He's gonna be bigger than MJ" then what happened?
Usher and Timberlake are talented but are they are on Michael Jackson's level? NO
"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
Yes, it does really depend on your taste. I think history has some of his best stuff and you know, I don't think he was as reliant on a Riley or Jones figure to produce it and that's why some of this stuff is some of his best at least to me. He had some misses, but he still had his own sound going, a crisp, trebly, distinct sound with complex rhythms and great bass lines. I think history has some of his finest songwriting. In retrospect, I'd have to say that Bad is one of my least favorite albums, don't get me wrong, a great album but lots which I would call filler. I think the stevie song, liberian girl, songs not really up to Mikes' caliber.
I think Usher's Confessions album blows away Dangerous, Blood on the Dance Floor and Invincible if you listen to the music and forget about the popularity of the artist. I guess im a fan of MJ's Off The Wall and Thriller flava.
That's probably the case because I think the total opposite. If you had said Confessions blows away Invincible, that would be a better argument
but Dangerous? Nah....
[Edited 9/8/10 1:00am]
"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
Honestly if you really break it down. Confessions has better club songs and love songs which is important when making a album. Dangerous lacks love tracks like MJ's previous albums. Big mistake keeping the song Joy off that album that went to Backstreet. Invincible lacked quality up tempo songs but had great ballads. Not the the whole mixture.
Confessions had great fast and slow jams which makes it a better overall album
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Literally before I could walk or talk. And I was an obsessive fan. I pretty much didn't even care about any non-Jackson family music until I was 10. 
I might check it out if I still don't have that bad vibe about MJJC lol