Nice thoughts on Invincible all.

Unholyaliance - thanks for your take.

Timmy as always brief but to the point.

And Suga - agree with Whatever Happens - but just can't feel Don't Walk Away - give me Butterflies any day of the week.

On the subject of Invincible:

- "You Rock My World" was a fantastic lead single IMO, and I remember it like it was

yesterday, being played everywhere - which is so weird that when it came out Sony

dropped the ball after that. MJ was appearing everywhere. He owned the Nsync performance.

He had his MSG shows. He did the Virgin Megastore thing. He was on TRL. He was on TV

Guide's cover. Michael was back in business, and for Sony not to capitalize on all that seemed

silly. Promo aside, I didn't LOVE the album back then. It grew on me with time. The only songs

I loved right away were "Threatened" and "Whatever Happens." I grew to love "Cry," "Speechless"

and "You Are My Life." The song "Heartbreaker" always seemed like a dud. "Another Day" would

have bested that song any day of the week, but "Privacy" was picked as the "rock" song instead?

Pssssh.

In Rolling Stone's book celebrating Michael's life - a great read BTW, Rodney talks about all

the production madness that went into producing "Threatened" As cheesy as some of Darkchild's

stuff is, I gotta give the man credit for going to work on that track at least.

Harlepolis said:

Jay(or anybody else)..

Do you know ANY interesting podcasts about MJ's music? Sort of like the equavilant to the Peach & Black series?

Afronerd did a couple of episodes about him(the tribute was really interesting, and the other was the usual "Prince Vs MJ" charade and him being a Prince stan, you know what the verdict was ).

Anyway, let me know.

I haven't been on here so I wasn't able to see this

Ya know I was thinking the same thing but I haven't really been able to find one, just a couple of tribute mixes. The NPR one was pretty good

BUT I may have to pass the idea to my friends because that sounds like something they may be up for My friend Christina (the owner of MJJVault) would most definitely be interested in doing something like that

ViintageJunkiie said:

suga10 said:

[img:$uid]http://ipowerrichmond.com/files/2010/06/TheFuture.jpg[/img:$uid]

Did u do that cover? If so, I say you submit that shit to Sony!

Someone on MJJC made that and it spread like wildfire

bboy87 said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

Did u do that cover? If so, I say you submit that shit to Sony!

Someone on MJJC made that and it spread like wildfire

it looks OFFICIAL! Hell, i'll submit it to Sony

ViintageJunkiie said:

bboy87 said:

Someone on MJJC made that and it spread like wildfire

it looks OFFICIAL! Hell, i'll submit it to Sony

you know we MJ fans are creative

All the while, my mock up covers got ignored...bitches....

Swa said:

Nice thoughts on Invincible all.

Unholyaliance - thanks for your take.

Timmy as always brief but to the point.

And Suga - agree with Whatever Happens - but just can't feel Don't Walk Away - give me Butterflies any day of the week.

I'll be posting my thoughts on the album soon

bboy87 said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

it looks OFFICIAL! Hell, i'll submit it to Sony

you know we MJ fans are creative

All the while, my mock up covers got ignored...bitches....

ViintageJunkiie said:

bboy87 said:

you know we MJ fans are creative

All the while, my mock up covers got ignored...bitches....

they past by mine but praised some wack ones

I'm gonna put mine on facebook and then people will love them....YOU'LL SEE!!!!!!

^^ We should each have a week to do a new cover and see who comes up with what.

suga10 said:

[img:$uid]http://ipowerrichmond.com/files/2010/06/TheFuture.jpg[/img:$uid]

This is SO relevant to my interests right now.

I wish this was the new album cover.

Swa said:

Nice thoughts on Invincible all.

Unholyaliance - thanks for your take.

Timmy as always brief but to the point.

And Suga - agree with Whatever Happens - but just can't feel Don't Walk Away - give me Butterflies any day of the week.

Awww I like Don't Walk Away

I think Invincible was an underrated album.

I also like Break of Dawn.

Swa said:

Nice thoughts on Invincible all.

Unholyaliance - thanks for your take.

Timmy as always brief but to the point.

And Suga - agree with Whatever Happens - but just can't feel Don't Walk Away - give me Butterflies any day of the week.

Hey, you know how I do. lol

PEACE UNTO DEAR MICHAEL JACKSON

Swa said:

MyLuv229 said:

Regarding Invincible...

I was really looking forward to this album and was sort of getting sick of the whole teengage pop craze at the time. I was really hoping Michael's return would be a whole "show them who's boss" situation. I was initially disappointed because he seemed to have gone along with the over-synthetic styles of pop music and it just wasn't as pleasant to listen to in totality. After History, I had faith that Michael would explore more depths of his artistry - be it dark, haunting, happy, etc. I just wanted to see another layer of who he was and what he was up to during his hiatus. I think I ultimately enjoyed and appreciated the album now, in retrospect, rather than at the time of its release and in the context of where the music industry was.

Yes, Hearbreaker has its moment with the chorus, but it's only a part of the song that I enjoy - everything else is too chaotic. Same with Threatened, Invincible, Unbreakable (although, I like the bass here better than the others)

You Rock My World, while still an enjoyable song, seemed to fit the R&B period of the late 90s rather than 2001.

A song's quality is measured in its totality, and therefore, Break of Dawn, Butterflies, Whatever Happens, Heaven Can Wait, Don't Walk Away delivers in full package.

And while the musical quality of Lost Children, Speechless and You Are My Life is there, it's too Disney for my taste.

2000 Watts, while I appreciate Michael giving us a glimpse of another layer of his vocals, this should've been replaced by Shout.

In summary, Rodney Jerkins was an epic fail, in my eyes, for this album. The album was all over the place and I'd rather Michael release a 21st century version of Off the Wall or have another consistent theme with the album. However, I will say, I really think this album showed the maturity of Michael's vocals. I think out of all his albums, I really liked his vocals on this album.

[Edited 9/5/10 18:51pm]

I still contest, reduce Invincible down to a 9 or 10 track CD and it would be a different album.

Invincilbe (alternate version)

1. Unbreakable 6:26

2. Heartbreaker 5:10 3.

3. Butterflies 4:41

4. Shout 4:18

5. You Rock My World 5:39

6. Heaven Can Wait 4.50

7. Invincible 4:46

8. Break of Dawn 5.33

9. Whatever Happens 4:57

Load it onto your itunes, give it a spin and see what you think.

I agree. Sometimes it's not what you're missing, but what you already have. Shedding some weight off that album would've helped - either tracks or the layers of special sound effects (e.g. Heartbreaker)

The disappointment in Invincible is that it was overly long and lost focus. I agree there are some great tracks on it, but for the most part there wasn't anything particularly fresh sounding about it. Michael sounded like a contemporary rather than a pioneer.

That's a great way to summarize it. I think he was working on and off on this album. Its production spanned from 1999 to 2001. Easy to lose focus and change things up when you stretch a project that long. While I know it's not in Michael's style to be quick and succint, I think dedicating a specific period of time to the album (say a year max) would result in a much more solid album.

ACACIA said:

PEACE UNTO DEAR MICHAEL JACKSON

For You Jacko

http://www.youtube.com/wa...v9lL-Lyu2A

Dick Zimmerman on Michael. His story about the Thriller album cover has already been posted here, but I thought I'd share another tiny account. That Diane Sawyer is a snake! Never respected her as a journalist.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.dickzimmerman....y=thriller

As Michael was hired by Steven Spielberg to narrate the ET story, Michael insisted that Steven also hire me to create the album cover and the inside poster. That evening after the session was over and the film developed I went over to meet with Michael to show him the results of our co-create. It was about one in the morning. Michael opened up a bottle of wine for him and I. After going over the film and after he relaxed and we got comfortable, he proceeded to be very candid with me with regards to the media and their ongoing negativity regarding himself. He had just completed an exclusive interview with Diane Sawyer on a tour of his Neverland complex, and felt he was extremely candid with her. He indicated even after that was aired, they found ways to degrade him. With tears in his eyes he said, "I really don't know what to do any more. I don't know how to handle the media any more. Everything I say they twist and make me look bad. I don't know what to say or do any more." What impressed me most about this meeting and our indepth conversation was his most important statement to me, that he was extremely concerned about the welfare of the children and their future existence on this planet...That statement was how I will always remember him!

suga10 said:

[img:$uid]http://ipowerrichmond.com/files/2010/06/TheFuture.jpg[/img:$uid]

So there is some confusion and I'd love someone to help me with this.

Many articles stated that the deadline for the Estate to submit songs is

September 9th. Is that true? I thought, per the arrangement Sony was

in charge of what made the cut. Is this true? Can someone please

explain all this to me like I'm a 3 year old? I'm lost.

List of Unreleased Michael Jackson Songs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unreleased_Michael_Jackson_material

Which BAD Tour would you rather see released on DVD between Wembley or Los Angeles?

If you're a member over at MJJC Click this link and vote on the poll. It won't hurt

http://www.mjjcommunity.c...ost2965923

If I do have a say, I'd rather see LA -but then again Just give me the BAD tour! I think another ideal is if they would boxset LA,Wembley and New York etc. because they're just great footage from a few different places.

[Edited 9/6/10 10:06am]

Are these fans just silly? You can grab a high quality bootleg of Wembley, right?

I've never seen one for LA. Common sense. Plus, LA was a better shot video IMO.

(And better show from what I've seen)

tangerine7 said:

Which BAD Tour would you rather see released on DVD between Wembley or Los Angeles?

If you're a member over at MJJC Click this link and vote on the poll. It won't hurt

http://www.mjjcommunity.c...ost2965923

If I do have a say, I'd rather see LA -but then again Just give me the BAD tour! I think another ideal is if they would boxset LA,Wembley and New York etc. because they're just great footage from a few different places.

[Edited 9/6/10 10:06am]

Vanilli said:

Are these fans just silly? You can grab a high quality bootleg of Wembley, right?

I've never seen one for LA. Common sense. Plus, LA was a better shot video IMO.

(And better show from what I've seen)

tangerine7 said:

Which BAD Tour would you rather see released on DVD between Wembley or Los Angeles?

If you're a member over at MJJC Click this link and vote on the poll. It won't hurt

http://www.mjjcommunity.c...ost2965923

If I do have a say, I'd rather see LA -but then again Just give me the BAD tour! I think another ideal is if they would boxset LA,Wembley and New York etc. because they're just great footage from a few different places.

[Edited 9/6/10 10:06am]

Well it is MJJC

But just hoping more people would vote for LA if* the estate is reading

I myself would love 2 have an offical LA Bad tour DVD. Just like the whole Triumph tour footage someone had over there and we didn't get to download it cause someone said they was going to contact the estate I wanted to be able to see that!

suga10 said:

List of Unreleased Michael Jackson Songs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unreleased_Michael_Jackson_material

There has to be more unreleases than just that, but it's a good start. Does anyone have a rough ballpark figure of Michael's total unreleases? Several hundred, maybe?

SoulAlive said:

suga10 said:

[img:$uid]http://ipowerrichmond.com/files/2010/06/TheFuture.jpg[/img:$uid]

As an artist, this is just about the best mock cover I've ever seen posted online.

MyLuv229 said:

ali23 said:

Michael interviews Pharrell

[Link]http://theneptunes.org/th...view-2003/[/link]

My computer doesnt like this sticky,after it reaches the 8th page it becomes impossible for me to post here!

So while I have the chance,im postin all I can!

You mean when you reply to the thread, it takes too long for the page to load due to the pics, videos, etc.? All you have to do is adjust your account settings and uncheck the box where it says "display entire thread below when replying to a post" or something like that. The page loads faster and you can post/reply all you want!

Thank you so much!

ali23 said:

MyLuv229 said:

You mean when you reply to the thread, it takes too long for the page to load due to the pics, videos, etc.? All you have to do is adjust your account settings and uncheck the box where it says "display entire thread below when replying to a post" or something like that. The page loads faster and you can post/reply all you want!

Thank you so much!

Thanks. I did it as well. It also took me ages before it all loaded when I was replying.

dag said:

ali23 said:

Thank you so much!

Thanks. I did it as well. It also took me ages before it all loaded when I was replying.

Funny because for many months now I have been having a awful time trying to reply here and waiting forever for pages to load one reason I've not posted very much here at the org but in the last 48 hours the pages and my reply actually is loading normally again.

Swa said:

Time to get back to discussing the reason we are all here - the music. So this week we look at:

Invincible

With a 5 year gap between HiStory and Invincible there was an air of intrigue surrounding the new album. How would it sound? Would there be surprises? Press at the time talked about how much was being spent on the albums production, and interviews suggested a lot more exploration of sounds and rhythm than eventuated on the release. We were told this was MJ going back to his Off The Wall days both in terms of melody and intent. So with Invincible’s release the expectation was high – was Michael going to be able to hold his own in a world of new pop stars, or would his releases start to be relegated to that of an “oldies” act.

Kicking the album off with Unbreakable, the groove stutters and struts along with sounds and structures that matched the current crop of hit makers. Michael’s voice is in fine form, especially in the falsetto lead in to the chorus. Here also for the first time was an exploration of digital cutting of effects on the vocals in smatterings here and there. Though at 6 minutes, the song seems to go along the same trajectory and doesn’t really offer anything new for the listener. Lyrically it feels as though Michael was trying overly hard to prove his worth – something he no longer needed to do.

Heartbreaker at least offered a bit of excitement. The manipulation of the beat has a sense of energy to it that is infectious. If you just listen to the beat, there are little surprises laid all through it, one moment MJ is beat boxing, the next snare drums are being sliced and diced, the next filters are being used to twist and turn it. Maybe a bit of a nod to the grooves Jam and Lewis would lay out for Janet, Heartbreaker really comes into it’s own with the choruses and sublime bridge where Michael’s backing vocals float and weave with ease. Hard hitting, jiggered and abrupt, this was one of the highpoints for the album in terms of the dance-oriented tracks.

Sadly Invincible comes off sounding like more of the same, and almost a brother track to Unbreakable, though with more melodic hooks. Maybe it’s the overly electronic instrumentation on the track, or the sparseness in the arrangement but it ends up being a dance song by the numbers and perhaps suffers from playing too much to the current pop playbook than pushing new territory.

Whilst the album would be criticised for having too many slo-jams on it (especially in the way it was sequenced) it’s often these songs that provide the high points on Invincible. Break of Dawn is a prime example of this. With Michael in more of a laid back mood the song floats out of the speakers and easily seduces the listener. A perfect balance of lead and backing vocals, there’s a depth here to Michael’s vocals that were lacking in the lead up tracks. The musical arrangement also feels more organic and natural. It just goes to show that when Michael wants to get his groove on and drift more into a soul territory few can come close.

Heaven Can Wait is classic r’n’b and Michael delivers like only MJ can. Lush production doesn’t swamp the song but allows Michael’s vocals to come to the fore and be carried by the track. Immediately catchy, the chorus now holds a bittersweet lyric that in today’s world features greater tragedy. One of the stand out tracks it’s no wonder Teddy Riley has plans of re-recording the track for Backstreet.

With it’s one moment comical the next annoying intro with Chris Tucker, You Rock My World see’s Michael hit with a modern MJ classic. Annoyed that Michael fell into the “darkchild” callout at the start of the song, this soon passes as the song’s groove and melody kick in. Sadly what could have been even more blissful arrangement with the use of real strings (and a nice nod back to Don’t Stop) the song relies a little too heavily on synths as its base. But there is no denying that out of all the dance tracks on here, this is the one that has you wanting to the get up the most. Although it doesn’t really offer anything new to his catalogue of hits, it does have a sense of joy in the vocals that are hard to resist.

Taking on Neo-Soul with Butterflies, Michael makes this song soar. With a groove that strolls, the musical arrangement feels more authentic, with horns and percussion punctuating the chorus. Michael’s vocals are amongst some of his best work, especially in the second verse when he goes into the falsetto that has been missing from a lot of his work. Rich and luscious backing vocals keep the choruses warm and just surround the listener. When you compare Michael’s final version with the Floetry demo you see how Michael matches note for note the little runs and adlibs to perfection yet still puts his own little stamp on it.

Sadly post Butterflies is where the album loses its focus and direction.

Speechless, with its pure a Capella intro is captivating to begin with then falls into an overblown Disney-esque arrangement that seems to rob the song of the very heart it longs to convey. If it had kept just to a short a Capella song it would have been more captivating – take the first 30 seconds and last 30 seconds, and you have something truly special.

2,000 Watts ends up sounding like a generic cast off from Dangerous era recordings and too gimmicky to be taken seriously with lines such as “you may now apply your 3D glasses”. The mis-step here though is that this song replaced Shout – which was at least more inventive.

You Are My Life is ironically lifeless. With the classic hallmarks of a Babyface song it feels like it is 5 years late in it’s delivery and ends up sounding dated and redundant.

Continuing the media victim theme, Jackson presents Privacy and although edgier than songs such as Tabloid Junkie again it feels like Michael is treading old ground here.

Don’t Walk Away was one of the slow growers of the album. Reminiscent of a Janet ballad (Someday is Tonight springs to mind) Michael shows that he can still sing the heart of out a ballad and give it depth.

One of the increasing problems with Michael’s albums was there was a sense that he was trying to repeat previous success, and Cry is this album’s attempt to reimagine Man In The Mirror. Sadly it doesn’t come close and whilst not a bad song at all, it does make you think too much of MITM and therefore suffers in the comparison.

With his heart on his sleeve, and maybe still trying to sway public opinion, The Lost Children feels even more out of place here than some of the other mis-steps. Again it feels like Michael we have already heard in Heal The World and suffers from the same sappy production.

Thankfully when you are feeling less and less enthused with the album, Whatever Happens comes on. With a duet between vocals and Santana guitar, it is one of the freshest tracks on the album. Sure its in blueprint of “get a great guitarist on the track”, but instead of trying to repeat Beat It, Michael explores new territory with this Latin fused track and comes out the winner.

Sadly, the freshness of Whatever Happens doesn’t carry across into Threatened – Michael’s latest take on a Thriller style song. Although not the wisest choice lyrically as Michael paints himself as a threatening beast who preys on sleeping victims, the groove of Threatened is what makes it captivating, and since getting a live airing in This Is It, the song has become more appealing, but part of me wishes the groove had different lyrics, but as it is it feels like Michael is treating old ground.

As his last studio album, Invincible ends up suffering from the weight of it’s own ambition. Overly long, this mixed bag of tricks really fails to continue with the momentum that the first half of the album was building. If it was trimmed down to 9 or 10 songs, then I think the feeling the album leaves you with would be different, and maybe would have been the “come back” album many critics claimed it wasn’t. Sadly this is the last studio album Michael left us, and you can’t help but think if he knew that, this wouldn’t be the note he would have wanted to leave on.

Swa

I agree with alot of this!

But I LOVE "Threatened"!

When I first heard it would be on the setlist for TII I was so exicited,and when I saw it in TII I was dissapointed it was so short.

Although ive started to like it abit more with time,"2000 Watts" still gets on my damn nerves!

Something about "Speechless" is really awkward to me!

[img:$uid]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l8ccita3Wk1qzjd51o1_500.jpg[/img:$uid]