Ok somebody please explain to me the difference between killing animals for food and killing plants for food. Plants are just as much organisms as animals are

Morrissey - not a racist, just a dick.

LightOfArt said:

Ok somebody please explain to me the difference between killing animals for food and killing plants for food. Plants are just as much organisms as animals are

Plants do not have conscious thought or a brain, or heightened emotions.

A plant isn't going to cry out to stop you from killing it.

And yes, purpledoveuk, animals do have "more rights" than vegetables......obviously.

You obviously believe they have less rights than humans.... now THAT is despicable.

Hitler was not a vegetarian for the record:

http://michaelbluejay.com...itler.html

Morissey has always been known for his Nationalistic views and his pride in being a Brit, so his current statement is not surprising. I disappointed, but I still love his music. It's through music like the Smiths and Crass where I got my first lesson in Vegetarianism. Morissey & Bridget Bardot should share a room together.

[Edited 9/6/10 14:44pm]

Militant said:

LightOfArt said:

Ok somebody please explain to me the difference between killing animals for food and killing plants for food. Plants are just as much organisms as animals are

Plants do not have conscious thought or a brain, or heightened emotions.

A plant isn't going to cry out to stop you from killing it.

And yes, purpledoveuk, animals do have "more rights" than vegetables......obviously.

You obviously believe they have less rights than humans.... now THAT is despicable.

Hitler was not a vegetarian for the record:

http://michaelbluejay.com...itler.html

It's a given that he was a veggie, various sources credible enough to withstand the scrutiny of countless historians attest to it. The first tobacco ban was enforced by the Nazi Party under his orders.

I believe animals are morally less important than human beings. I haven't any personal ethical system that defends this belief, only that I like to eat certain kinds of animals and want to be able to keep doing it. Yes, that's selfishly convenient of me. I'm possibly open to change one day, stories of modern factory farming and even the fate of Lobsters could make me question the moral status and suffering of animals.

Irish Blood, English Heart, ... Shit for Brains...

It's legitimate to criticize the chinese people for their alimentary habits, but to call them subspecies is just...wrong...

shit for brains

elmer said:

Militant said:

Plants do not have conscious thought or a brain, or heightened emotions.

A plant isn't going to cry out to stop you from killing it.

And yes, purpledoveuk, animals do have "more rights" than vegetables......obviously.

You obviously believe they have less rights than humans.... now THAT is despicable.

Hitler was not a vegetarian for the record:

http://michaelbluejay.com...itler.html

It's a given that he was a veggie, various sources credible enough to withstand the scrutiny of countless historians attest to it. The first tobacco ban was enforced by the Nazi Party under his orders.

I believe animals are morally less important than human beings. I haven't any personal ethical system that defends this belief, only that I like to eat certain kinds of animals and want to be able to keep doing it. Yes, that's selfishly convenient of me. I'm possibly open to change one day, stories of modern factory farming and even the fate of Lobsters could make me question the moral status and suffering of animals.

I'm gonna jump in here...

Many meat-apologists trot out the line 'Hitler was a vegetarian' for no apparant reason. Why? Why do you actually say that? Do you feel that all vegatarians are somehow PROMOTING unnecessary suffering and death because some mad dictator shared a similar diet? [Snip - luv4u]

What point are you trying to make exactly?

I'm not getting at you personally, but this is something I've seen many times posted triumphantly on message boards as soon as vegetarianism is mentioned - as if it is some kind of defining proof that not killing things is utterly despicable and to be avoided at all costs - but in reality all it does is make me think, WTF?

[Edited 9/6/10 16:49pm]

CORRECTION- It's a given that he had a prediliction for vegetarian meals, as far as I know. He may've occasionally eaten meat, maybe not.

I've only encountered the 'Hitler was a veggie' line in jest, to be honest. You don't get many Adolf's around these days shows how he's permeated the collective consciousness of society.

He's a racist, officious little prick. Always has been - no shocker there.

Militant said:

As far as I'm concerned, eating meat in this day and age, for anyone that can easily make the compassionate choice to not kill animals (ie everyone except those in third-world countries), is Neanderthal behaviour. That's why I'm a vegan.

Neanderthal because you eat meat? No.

Identity said:

Morrissey - not a racist, just a dick.

And the difference is?

TheSkinMechanic said:

purpledoveuk said:

TheSkinMechanic said:

I'm gonna jump in here...

Many meat-apologists trot out the line 'Hitler was a vegetarian' for no apparant reason. Why? Why do you actually say that? Do you feel that all vegatarians are somehow PROMOTING unnecessary suffering and death because some mad dictator shared a similar diet? [Snip - luv4u]

What point are you trying to make exactly?

I'm not getting at you personally, but this is something I've seen many times posted triumphantly on message boards as soon as vegetarianism is mentioned - as if it is some kind of defining proof that not killing things is utterly despicable and to be avoided at all costs - but in reality all it does is make me think, WTF?

[Edited 9/6/10 16:49pm]

Nah, the point I was making is that Morrisey is up there with Hitler on foreign relations Oh and immcompasionate too...I work in the medical profession a d by nature I got into that through compassion,I give blood regularly, I've studied to Masters level on environment, conservation etc, done plenty of voluntary work in and around it too...I also got 'head-hunted'(if thats the correct term)for a job that would be more than doubled my wages I currently earn when somebody passed on my CV to a pharmaceutical company who saw that I specialised in Toxicology - halfway through the interview they revealed they did animal testing and that's why they wanted my expertise - at the time I was fresh off my masters, unemployed and poor and that job would have made me for a very long time....but I stopped them mid interview and said no thank you there and then and remained unemployed (and not signing on before we start on that)....I have morales, I have standards...I just eat meat as do plenty of others (can I say majority?) - it's just a choice, my choice...do I agree with making animals suffer whether for food or not - Hell no ,despite my deep rural upbringing and being surrounded by it...I hate those motherfuckers who go fox hunting for pleasure but have no probs killing for food. I seem to recall from some hazy lecture back in the 90s that one of my Profs demonstrated that if you were to be truly vegan and cut out all animal involvement, products etc...you would be hardpressed to eat anything but Brown rice - I wish I could remember the details. I don't pretend that there isn't a certain barrier from 'ignorance' between me, my dinner and the slaughter house...but i know what happens better than some I've been involved bothends ...hunting for food but also treating farm animals (my proudest moment as saving a sow and her litter....a story for another time)so I like to think my choice is informed and that, unlike some, I don't think meat just appears on the shelf. Keep going though....you never know we may evolve not to have canines one day and then this argument /debate won't be needed

Kudos for not accepting the pharmaceutical job.

TheSkinMechanic said:

purpledoveuk said:

TheSkinMechanic said:

Kudos for not accepting the pharmaceutical job.

Ah. It's not particularly big of me really - I'd be a real hypocrite if I had taken it just for money as it goes against everything I believe....and let's be honest any job that pays so high and you have to go through two holding areas surrounded by razor wire but isnt a milatary base probably isn't a good working environment. I can't believe I didn't/couldn't find out what they did before my chat with them. From what they said they didn't test cosmetics ( I'm not sure if it was illegal at that then or not) but rather drugs or chemicals within drugs for the medical world.....I almost laughed out loud when they 'reassured' me they didn't test on cows....I remember thinking "who does?". They then said "is this something you would be comfortable with" to which the reply was "nope" and then the Chet was pretty much over. All banter/antagonising aside I do have respect for vegetarians and particularly vegans (I'm not sure if it takes will power or not....probably not), perhaps it's just an excuse but I think I could probably function as a Veggie if it weren't for having a young meat eating family....Vegan I'm afraid not, I drink way too much milk (and I am aware of the process to get that milk...I'm afraid). I guess Morrissey (and McCartney just rile me)

No, it IS a big thing to do - anyone who promotes the protection of life (animal or human) through their actions (even in a limited way) - has earned a little respect.

purpledoveuk - have you ever tried soy,rice, oat, almond or hemp milk?

Militant said:

Militant said:

purpledoveuk - have you ever tried soy milk?

I used to drink soy milk as a baby because being born premature and the way I was as a baby it was hard for me to drink regular milk 'cause, according to my mom, I'd bleed so for a while I could only drink soy milk. Mom and dad thought it was rancid but I enjoyed it until I was able to drink regular milk. I don't know the last time I drank soy milk. I remember buying one but I don't know if my taste buds changed or what because I just didn't drink any afterwards lol

[Edited 9/7/10 14:55pm]

[Edited 9/7/10 14:56pm]

LightOfArt said:

Ok somebody please explain to me the difference between killing animals for food and killing plants for food. Plants are just as much organisms as animals are

I've asked soo many vegetarians/vegans this same exact question a million times and some (not all) of them always give me that same bogus answer about how plants don't have feelings when in reality these individuals obviously haven't talked to a single botanist/biologist/plant farmer or even read into the subject of plants at all. Last I checked, the same higher being that made dogs/cats/cows/chickens/humans and other physically mobile creatures also made plants and insects.

What makes plants a lesser lifeform than animals? For that matter, why is it okay to kill roaches and flies but not chickens? Plants require certain amounts of sunlight and air to survive...too much or too little of either can kill a plant just like it can kill an other living being. If you talk to plants, they do grow better. They can be drowned and have been known to seek out light sources by contorting themselves.

I majored in animal sciences and I had to take biology and botany courses and the things I saw during those classes put no doubt in my mind that plants are just as receptive to pain and fear as animals are. Plants do feel something otherwise they would be like rocks and dirt and never grow; and, then non-meat eaters would really be screwed. Very few creatures can survive on dead flesh (animal or fruit-hence why you don't eat rotten fruits and veggies anymore than you would eat rotten flesh.)

If people don't want to eat meat because they either don't like the taste or dislike the 'harvesting methods' than more power to them and I respect their choices; but, I like meat and I work with dogs, cats, birds, rodents, reptiles, and have worked with farm animals on several occasions. I wouldn't eat a dog or cat because there are lots of cows, chickens, fish, and other more meaty aninals to eat so it's not really necessary to eat companion animals. I've worked with both cows and chickens and trust me, if they weren't eaten they would start causing more harm than good just like if any living being starts to overpopulate and thus destroy its environment.

Just like some individuals can't bear the thought of eating meat, I can't bear the thought of having to choke down some man-made vitamins and nutrients when I can just get it from the original source. How the fuck do I know what they put in some little pill capsule? Vitamins get recalled just like ground beef and spinach do. A friend of mine got very sick and almost lost her life to her vegan lifestyle because her body needed the nutrients contained in meats and even though she was eating lots of beans, it wasn't enough for her body so she had to give up her vegan diet and she's been fine ever since. I've met people who have become physically ill from eating meat also so it is a two-way street.

To me, giving up meat is like giving up carbs and anyone who calls me a bad person for my choice is a disrespectful asshole IMO. If animals are being tortured, killed, and wasted, I'm totally opposed to that. I've watched a bull fight and was totally disgusted by what I saw because they tortured that animal and thrilled at it's pain and suffering but what really pissed me off was when I found out that they don't even eat the animal after they massacre it. They just burn them. That's wrong to me. Eating a cow that was raised on a farm and killed with all the parts used to their potential, really doesn't offend me because it's life is supporting other lives. It's the circle of life so even if you don't agree with it or really respect it, you still have to accept it. All just my

Oh, and Morrissey has the freedom to say whatever he wants because it's all his opinion and opinions aren't laws so nobody really has to listen to them if they don't want to. End of rant.

estelle81 said:

LightOfArt said:

Ok somebody please explain to me the difference between killing animals for food and killing plants for food. Plants are just as much organisms as animals are

I've asked soo many vegetarians/vegans this same exact question a million times and some (not all) of them always give me that same bogus answer about how plants don't have feelings when in reality these individuals obviously haven't talked to a single botanist/biologist/plant farmer or even read into the subject of plants at all. Last I checked, the same higher being that made dogs/cats/cows/chickens/humans and other physically mobile creatures also made plants and insects.

What makes plants a lesser lifeform than animals? For that matter, why is it okay to kill roaches and flies but not chickens? Plants require certain amounts of sunlight and air to survive...too much or too little of either can kill a plant just like it can kill an other living being. If you talk to plants, they do grow better. They can be drowned and have been known to seek out light sources by contorting themselves.

I majored in animal sciences and I had to take biology and botany courses and the things I saw during those classes put no doubt in my mind that plants are just as receptive to pain and fear as animals are. Plants do feel something otherwise they would be like rocks and dirt and never grow; and, then non-meat eaters would really be screwed. Very few creatures can survive on dead flesh (animal or fruit-hence why you don't eat rotten fruits and veggies anymore than you would eat rotten flesh.)

If people don't want to eat meat because they either don't like the taste or dislike the 'harvesting methods' than more power to them and I respect their choices; but, I like meat and I work with dogs, cats, birds, rodents, reptiles, and have worked with farm animals on several occasions. I wouldn't eat a dog or cat because there are lots of cows, chickens, fish, and other more meaty aninals to eat so it's not really necessary to eat companion animals. I've worked with both cows and chickens and trust me, if they weren't eaten they would start causing more harm than good just like if any living being starts to overpopulate and thus destroy its environment.

Just like some individuals can't bear the thought of eating meat, I can't bear the thought of having to choke down some man-made vitamins and nutrients when I can just get it from the original source. How the fuck do I know what they put in some little pill capsule? Vitamins get recalled just like ground beef and spinach do. A friend of mine got very sick and almost lost her life to her vegan lifestyle because her body needed the nutrients contained in meats and even though she was eating lots of beans, it wasn't enough for her body so she had to give up her vegan diet and she's been fine ever since. I've met people who have become physically ill from eating meat also so it is a two-way street.

To me, giving up meat is like giving up carbs and anyone who calls me a bad person for my choice is a disrespectful asshole IMO. If animals are being tortured, killed, and wasted, I'm totally opposed to that. I've watched a bull fight and was totally disgusted by what I saw because they tortured that animal and thrilled at it's pain and suffering but what really pissed me off was when I found out that they don't even eat the animal after they massacre it. They just burn them. That's wrong to me. Eating a cow that was raised on a farm and killed with all the parts used to their potential, really doesn't offend me because it's life is supporting other lives. It's the circle of life so even if you don't agree with it or really respect it, you still have to accept it. All just my

Oh, and Morrissey has the freedom to say whatever he wants because it's all his opinion and opinions aren't laws so nobody really has to listen to them if they don't want to. End of rant.

[Debate/discuss in a civil manner rather than flame someone snip - luv4u]

TheSkinMechanic said:

estelle81 said:

I've asked soo many vegetarians/vegans this same exact question a million times and some (not all) of them always give me that same bogus answer about how plants don't have feelings when in reality these individuals obviously haven't talked to a single botanist/biologist/plant farmer or even read into the subject of plants at all. Last I checked, the same higher being that made dogs/cats/cows/chickens/humans and other physically mobile creatures also made plants and insects.

What makes plants a lesser lifeform than animals? For that matter, why is it okay to kill roaches and flies but not chickens? Plants require certain amounts of sunlight and air to survive...too much or too little of either can kill a plant just like it can kill an other living being. If you talk to plants, they do grow better. They can be drowned and have been known to seek out light sources by contorting themselves.

I majored in animal sciences and I had to take biology and botany courses and the things I saw during those classes put no doubt in my mind that plants are just as receptive to pain and fear as animals are. Plants do feel something otherwise they would be like rocks and dirt and never grow; and, then non-meat eaters would really be screwed. Very few creatures can survive on dead flesh (animal or fruit-hence why you don't eat rotten fruits and veggies anymore than you would eat rotten flesh.)

If people don't want to eat meat because they either don't like the taste or dislike the 'harvesting methods' than more power to them and I respect their choices; but, I like meat and I work with dogs, cats, birds, rodents, reptiles, and have worked with farm animals on several occasions. I wouldn't eat a dog or cat because there are lots of cows, chickens, fish, and other more meaty aninals to eat so it's not really necessary to eat companion animals. I've worked with both cows and chickens and trust me, if they weren't eaten they would start causing more harm than good just like if any living being starts to overpopulate and thus destroy its environment.

Just like some individuals can't bear the thought of eating meat, I can't bear the thought of having to choke down some man-made vitamins and nutrients when I can just get it from the original source. How the fuck do I know what they put in some little pill capsule? Vitamins get recalled just like ground beef and spinach do. A friend of mine got very sick and almost lost her life to her vegan lifestyle because her body needed the nutrients contained in meats and even though she was eating lots of beans, it wasn't enough for her body so she had to give up her vegan diet and she's been fine ever since. I've met people who have become physically ill from eating meat also so it is a two-way street.

To me, giving up meat is like giving up carbs and anyone who calls me a bad person for my choice is a disrespectful asshole IMO. If animals are being tortured, killed, and wasted, I'm totally opposed to that. I've watched a bull fight and was totally disgusted by what I saw because they tortured that animal and thrilled at it's pain and suffering but what really pissed me off was when I found out that they don't even eat the animal after they massacre it. They just burn them. That's wrong to me. Eating a cow that was raised on a farm and killed with all the parts used to their potential, really doesn't offend me because it's life is supporting other lives. It's the circle of life so even if you don't agree with it or really respect it, you still have to accept it. All just my

Oh, and Morrissey has the freedom to say whatever he wants because it's all his opinion and opinions aren't laws so nobody really has to listen to them if they don't want to. End of rant.

[Debate/discuss in a civil manner rather than flame someone snip - luv4u]

You can try so I can understand your hostility towards me and my post. What part offended you so? The parts that were based on my opinion or the parts that were from my life experiences? Like I said, if someone's opinion differs from mine, more power to them and respect because differences are what makes life interesting. Everything I said in that post should have been clarified by what was at the end: "All just my ' ;so, I really don't understand the childish question of: "Are you allowed outside unsupervised?" coming from someone who seems above such immaturity and disdain. For me to give an evil comeback is really beneath me; so, all I can say to you is keep smiling and don't let other's beliefs and opinions cause you to stoop to disrespectful and malicious verbal retaliations because it's really beneath you as well.

estelle81 said a bunch of other stuff and finished with:

Oh, and Morrissey has the freedom to say whatever he wants because it's all his opinion and opinions aren't laws so nobody really has to listen to them if they don't want to. End of rant.

Who's questioning his freedom of opinion? I'm glad it's out in the open (unlike so much of him) so we can see him for who he is and call his ass out on it.

People want to keep saying "Oh, he's just being egotistical or flustered (even though he made ANOTHER statement through his publicist reiterating his racism) or he's just angry or a just being a dick - basically, just being Morrissey." Fuck THAT. This hypocrite does not get a pass for calling an entire country of people 'a subspecies' as an advocate of animal cruelty or for any reason.

And for the "I'd also say something racist if I thought it would keep a few cats from being skinned and fried alive." crew: how about if you went ahead and said whatever was really on your mind - but still didn't save those cats? Then what? Because, if it's not already obvious, being racist is probably not going to save those cats. Getting your asses on a plane and going there would probably be a more effective plan for saving those cats. Saying some fucked-up racist bullshit half a world away isn't going to inspire anyone to take up your cause (or to even deal with OUR OWN record of animal cruelty), but it will say something about you.

UptownCitizen said:

estelle81 said a bunch of other stuff and finished with:

Oh, and Morrissey has the freedom to say whatever he wants because it's all his opinion and opinions aren't laws so nobody really has to listen to them if they don't want to. End of rant.

Who's questioning his freedom of opinion? I'm glad it's out in the open (unlike so much of him) so we can see him for who he is and call his ass out on it.

People want to keep saying "Oh, he's just being egotistical or flustered (even though he made ANOTHER statement through his publicist reiterating his racism) or he's just angry or a just being a dick - basically, just being Morrissey." Fuck THAT. This hypocrite does not get a pass for calling an entire country of people 'a subspecies' as an advocate of animal cruelty or for any reason.

And for the "I'd also say something racist if I thought it would keep a few cats from being skinned and fried alive." crew: how about if you went ahead and said whatever was really on your mind - but still didn't save those cats? Then what? Because, if it's not already obvious, being racist is probably not going to save those cats. Getting your asses on a plane and going there would probably be a more effective plan for saving those cats. Saying some fucked-up racist bullshit half a world away isn't going to inspire anyone to take up your cause (or to even deal with OUR OWN record of animal cruelty), but it will say something about you.

Hear ye! Hear ye!

There's alot of smoke & mirrors going on in this thread,,,,and once again, some people in orgville never cease to show their true selves.

Funny thing though, those are the same FOLKS who would scream foul if the shoe was on the other foot and they were the ones being scrutinized.

Lauryn Hill is still deemed for a "rumor", Morissey is being defended for something he actually said,,,,and it wasn't his first time. I love it.

Timmy84 said:

UptownCitizen said:

estelle81 said a bunch of other stuff and finished with:

Oh, and Morrissey has the freedom to say whatever he wants because it's all his opinion and opinions aren't laws so nobody really has to listen to them if they don't want to. End of rant.

Who's questioning his freedom of opinion? I'm glad it's out in the open (unlike so much of him) so we can see him for who he is and call his ass out on it.

People want to keep saying "Oh, he's just being egotistical or flustered (even though he made ANOTHER statement through his publicist reiterating his racism) or he's just angry or a just being a dick - basically, just being Morrissey." Fuck THAT. This hypocrite does not get a pass for calling an entire country of people 'a subspecies' as an advocate of animal cruelty or for any reason.

And for the "I'd also say something racist if I thought it would keep a few cats from being skinned and fried alive." crew: how about if you went ahead and said whatever was really on your mind - but still didn't save those cats? Then what? Because, if it's not already obvious, being racist is probably not going to save those cats. Getting your asses on a plane and going there would probably be a more effective plan for saving those cats. Saying some fucked-up racist bullshit half a world away isn't going to inspire anyone to take up your cause (or to even deal with OUR OWN record of animal cruelty), but it will say something about you.

It has brought a lot of publicity to the issue. Wouldn't have happened if he hadn't been offensive.

if he'd said:

"China has a poor stance on animal rights."

nobody would have noticed or cared if he'd said that.

estelle81 said:

TheSkinMechanic said:

[Debate/discuss in a civil manner rather than flame someone snip - luv4u]

You can try so I can understand your hostility towards me and my post. What part offended you so? The parts that were based on my opinion or the parts that were from my life experiences? Like I said, if someone's opinion differs from mine, more power to them and respect because differences are what makes life interesting. Everything I said in that post should have been clarified by what was at the end: "All just my ' ;so, I really don't understand the childish question of: "Are you allowed outside unsupervised?" coming from someone who seems above such immaturity and disdain. For me to give an evil comeback is really beneath me; so, all I can say to you is keep smiling and don't let other's beliefs and opinions cause you to stoop to disrespectful and malicious verbal retaliations because it's really beneath you as well.

I hold my hands up - I was wrong to say what I did.

I apologise.

estelle81 said:

LightOfArt said:

Ok somebody please explain to me the difference between killing animals for food and killing plants for food. Plants are just as much organisms as animals are

I've asked soo many vegetarians/vegans this same exact question a million times and some (not all) of them always give me that same bogus answer about how plants don't have feelings when in reality these individuals obviously haven't talked to a single botanist/biologist/plant farmer or even read into the subject of plants at all. Last I checked, the same higher being that made dogs/cats/cows/chickens/humans and other physically mobile creatures also made plants and insects.

What makes plants a lesser lifeform than animals? For that matter, why is it okay to kill roaches and flies but not chickens? Plants require certain amounts of sunlight and air to survive...too much or too little of either can kill a plant just like it can kill an other living being. If you talk to plants, they do grow better. They can be drowned and have been known to seek out light sources by contorting themselves.

I majored in animal sciences and I had to take biology and botany courses and the things I saw during those classes put no doubt in my mind that plants are just as receptive to pain and fear as animals are. Plants do feel something otherwise they would be like rocks and dirt and never grow; and, then non-meat eaters would really be screwed. Very few creatures can survive on dead flesh (animal or fruit-hence why you don't eat rotten fruits and veggies anymore than you would eat rotten flesh.)

If people don't want to eat meat because they either don't like the taste or dislike the 'harvesting methods' than more power to them and I respect their choices; but, I like meat and I work with dogs, cats, birds, rodents, reptiles, and have worked with farm animals on several occasions. I wouldn't eat a dog or cat because there are lots of cows, chickens, fish, and other more meaty aninals to eat so it's not really necessary to eat companion animals. I've worked with both cows and chickens and trust me, if they weren't eaten they would start causing more harm than good just like if any living being starts to overpopulate and thus destroy its environment.

Just like some individuals can't bear the thought of eating meat, I can't bear the thought of having to choke down some man-made vitamins and nutrients when I can just get it from the original source. How the fuck do I know what they put in some little pill capsule? Vitamins get recalled just like ground beef and spinach do. A friend of mine got very sick and almost lost her life to her vegan lifestyle because her body needed the nutrients contained in meats and even though she was eating lots of beans, it wasn't enough for her body so she had to give up her vegan diet and she's been fine ever since. I've met people who have become physically ill from eating meat also so it is a two-way street.

To me, giving up meat is like giving up carbs and anyone who calls me a bad person for my choice is a disrespectful asshole IMO. If animals are being tortured, killed, and wasted, I'm totally opposed to that. I've watched a bull fight and was totally disgusted by what I saw because they tortured that animal and thrilled at it's pain and suffering but what really pissed me off was when I found out that they don't even eat the animal after they massacre it. They just burn them. That's wrong to me. Eating a cow that was raised on a farm and killed with all the parts used to their potential, really doesn't offend me because it's life is supporting other lives. It's the circle of life so even if you don't agree with it or really respect it, you still have to accept it. All just my

Oh, and Morrissey has the freedom to say whatever he wants because it's all his opinion and opinions aren't laws so nobody really has to listen to them if they don't want to. End of rant.

Excellent post!!!

crazydoctor said:

UptownCitizen said:

Who's questioning his freedom of opinion? I'm glad it's out in the open (unlike so much of him) so we can see him for who he is and call his ass out on it.

People want to keep saying "Oh, he's just being egotistical or flustered (even though he made ANOTHER statement through his publicist reiterating his racism) or he's just angry or a just being a dick - basically, just being Morrissey." Fuck THAT. This hypocrite does not get a pass for calling an entire country of people 'a subspecies' as an advocate of animal cruelty or for any reason.

And for the "I'd also say something racist if I thought it would keep a few cats from being skinned and fried alive." crew: how about if you went ahead and said whatever was really on your mind - but still didn't save those cats? Then what? Because, if it's not already obvious, being racist is probably not going to save those cats. Getting your asses on a plane and going there would probably be a more effective plan for saving those cats. Saying some fucked-up racist bullshit half a world away isn't going to inspire anyone to take up your cause (or to even deal with OUR OWN record of animal cruelty), but it will say something about you.

It has brought a lot of publicity to the issue. Wouldn't have happened if he hadn't been offensive.

if he'd said:

"China has a poor stance on animal rights."

nobody would have noticed or cared if he'd said that.

Has it brought anything but publicity to the issue? Has his racism provoked anyone into making a call or writing a letter? I'm not seeing it. All I can see is the publicity that it's brought to highlight Morrissey's racism - again.

And I don't believe that Morrissey dedicating a certain amount of that interview's column space to the actual issue wouldn't have had its intended effect - if his intention were truly about informing people, generating a discussion and bringing more attention to China's animal cruelty record (and what they're doing about it) and not just crude publicity. Saying that "He had no choice but to be racist in order to save all those little kitties!" is a trifling cop-out.