and yet with all the upgrades to itunes and software, the dumbest thing like clearing up the "Play Count" issue with the Ipod Touch still has not been resolved, scan the net and see how many complaints there are on this and wonder why not one upgrade has adjusted this.

Fuck iTunes.

It's a complete piece of shit. Sure it works better on a Mac... for the less than 10% market share of people who have Macs compared the 90%+ market share of Windows and Linux.

I've used every media player program under the sun. Since using WinAmp in 1998, to MusicMatch Jukebox in the early 2000's, to Windows Media Player, to MediaMonkey, to Songbird.

iTunes is the worst out of all of them.

Apple lucked out with the iPod in terms of forcing people to use iTunes.

As for Ping.....the less said the better.

So it's a social network..... that doesn't recognise anything other than iTunes PURCHASES.... that you can only access within the proprietary iTunes program. FAIL

It's like someone built a shitty social network ripped off from Facebook and Twitter, and then tried to add in features from last.fm, and then shoved it inside iTunes.

Garbage.

I can't wait for Google Music to launch this Christmas, fully synchronised with all Android devices, including Google TV as well as all the in-car entertainment systems being built on Android, as well as being fully functional within the browser, with complete wireless sync to any device and streaming your entire library from wherever you are.

Once that hits, iTunes can suck it.

Pair it with a whole bunch of dedicated media players from the likes of Sony, Samsung, LG, all running Android, and Apple are done for.

Android has wiped the floor with Apple in smartphones in less than 2 years. Next up - Google TV, Android tablets, and Android MP3 players/entertainment systems.

It's just like the late 80's and early 90's Microsoft VS Apple war. And the outcome will be EXACTLY the same - Apple will go from having majority market share to having a minimal piece of the whole pie, due to their insistence on policed, closed, proprietary hardware and software.

For those of you who don't follow the tech industry, just remember that I told you about Google Music right now, and let's see where we're at by the end of 2011.

Militant said:

Fuck iTunes.

It's a complete piece of shit. Sure it works better on a Mac... for the less than 10% market share of people who have Macs compared the 90%+ market share of Windows and Linux.

I've used every media player program under the sun. Since using WinAmp in 1998, to MusicMatch Jukebox in the early 2000's, to Windows Media Player, to MediaMonkey, to Songbird.

iTunes is the worst out of all of them.

Apple lucked out with the iPod in terms of forcing people to use iTunes.

As for Ping.....the less said the better.

So it's a social network..... that doesn't recognise anything other than iTunes PURCHASES.... that you can only access within the proprietary iTunes program. FAIL

It's like someone built a shitty social network ripped off from Facebook and Twitter, and then tried to add in features from last.fm, and then shoved it inside iTunes.

Garbage.

I can't wait for Google Music to launch this Christmas, fully synchronised with all Android devices, including Google TV as well as all the in-car entertainment systems being built on Android, as well as being fully functional within the browser, with complete wireless sync to any device and streaming your entire library from wherever you are.

Once that hits, iTunes can suck it.

Pair it with a whole bunch of dedicated media players from the likes of Sony, Samsung, LG, all running Android, and Apple are done for.

Android has wiped the floor with Apple in smartphones in less than 2 years. Next up - Google TV, Android tablets, and Android MP3 players/entertainment systems.

It's just like the late 80's and early 90's Microsoft VS Apple war. And the outcome will be EXACTLY the same - Apple will go from having majority market share to having a minimal piece of the whole pie, due to their insistence on policed, closed, proprietary hardware and software.

For those of you who don't follow the tech industry, just remember that I told you about Google Music right now, and let's see where we're at by the end of 2011.

well i gotta agree on all this, major competition is on the way, lets not forget that even though everyone owns some form of iPod, the percentage of music on their iPod purchased through the itunes store ranks around 3-5%, that shows that the device and the store are clearly not inSYNC

I love all the misinformation on this thread. Hate on, haters!

AlexdeParis said:

I love all the misinformation on this thread. Hate on, haters!

I dont think its hate to point out where it needs to be improved or that like everything else iTunes is a business that sells peoples music for a cut, its just another person taking a cut, i think artists will eventually fight their way around these things, itunes is a good thing for some, others it isnt, we forget that digital can be done anywhere.

I really don't see THAT much of a diff. I too will be sticking to LastFM. I've met a lot of interesting people and have heard a lot of great underground music. I'll never use Ping anyway. I set it up and got bored with it within 5 seconds.

LadyLuvSexxy said:

I really don't see THAT much of a diff. I too will be sticking to LastFM. I've met a lot of interesting people and have heard a lot of great underground music. I'll never use Ping anyway. I set it up and got bored with it within 5 seconds.

lol I did the same thing as well. I think it's a pretty dumb concept as well to introduce.

Sucks so far, it renamed all my Unknown Albums to The Fame Monster

It does sync a LOT faster though, which is great.

errant said:

went ahead and upgraded.

i don't really like it. I'm fine with them losing the color and going to grayscale in the user interface. and it does seem to be running and responding much faster.

but I really don't like the new list view. artist/album needs to go back to being under the artwork instead of at the side, or at the very least, text-wrapping if you want to make that column smaller. and they need to re-introduce re-sizing album artwork in its column. there also needs to be more definition between columns, and more line-to-line contrast in the background colors for the song titles in the grid.

if they'd fix that, i'd be fine with the whole thing, really. haven't tried Ping and not really interested in doing so. i hear you can't get rid of it once you activate it.

You can click on View at top left and change to Coverflow instead of Album List.

Militant said:

Fuck iTunes.

It's a complete piece of shit. Sure it works better on a Mac... for the less than 10% market share of people who have Macs compared the 90%+ market share of Windows and Linux.

That's hilarious! I like how you grouped Linux with Windows as if to suggest Linux actually has any market share on its own.

I've used every media player program under the sun. Since using WinAmp in 1998, to MusicMatch Jukebox in the early 2000's, to Windows Media Player, to MediaMonkey, to Songbird.

iTunes is the worst out of all of them.

Also, hilarious! To have issues with iTunes is one thing... to then suggest MusicMatch, Songbird, hell even Windows Media Player, are bastions of stability and perfection is just deep fried comedy gold.

Android has wiped the floor with Apple in smartphones in less than 2 years. Next up - Google TV, Android tablets, and Android MP3 players/entertainment systems.

Wiped the floor?? You're killing me! Don't get me wrong, Android has done well for itself and it continues to do so but the fact that Android is available across multiple networks and most iOS devices are tied to a single one in any given market makes mincemeat out of simplistic comparisons. What do you think is going to happen when iOS devices start popping up on Verizon, just for a start.

As for other devices, I have yet to see a single Android based tablet device that's worth paying for... To make matters worse, Google seems ready to throw Android under the bus in favor of a Chrome OS based tablet. It's hardly going to be the single, unified and free, universe you dream of... I predict one epic fail.

It's just like the late 80's and early 90's Microsoft VS Apple war. And the outcome will be EXACTLY the same - Apple will go from having majority market share to having a minimal piece of the whole pie, due to their insistence on policed, closed, proprietary hardware and software.

...and the jokes just keep coming. I'm not an Apple zealot. I don't want an iPhone (I own a Pre) and don't want an iPad, but your post is pure hyperbole with little substance. Do you work in the marketing department at Google??

For those of you who don't follow the tech industry, just remember that I told you about Google Music right now, and let's see where we're at by the end of 2011.

I recall people saying similar things about Microsoft Zune...

The only thing I can agree with you on is that Ping is a failure right now, however I still think your reasoning behind that is wrong, too!

[Edited 9/6/10 15:06pm]

lastdecember said:

well i gotta agree on all this, major competition is on the way, lets not forget that even though everyone owns some form of iPod, the percentage of music on their iPod purchased through the itunes store ranks around 3-5%, that shows that the device and the store are clearly not inSYNC

..or to look at it another way, nearly 30% of all music, and 70% of all digital music, purchased in the US comes by way of iTunes. So even if the percentage of purchased music on an average iPod is low, we still KNOW that no other digital vendor has a larger share.

Of course if we do look purely at digital sales, the bulk of vendors other than iTunes are still offering music downloads that are in an iPod compatible format.

Given the popularity of the brand, as long as iPods and other iOS based devices continue to hold the largest market share then a great majority of music purchases will be made via iTunes or those that support the devices in question.

This leads to the issue of how other vendors entering the market will manage to grab any market share (even a juggernaut like Amazon struggles for a 12% share)? They can't offer a store that doesn't support the iPod if they want to make any real money and if their store supports Apple products then what reason do people have for purchasing anything else?

I don't think Apple will care about competing services if those very services support the purchase of more iOS products (which will leads to a desire for apps, etc... only available from iTunes).

The above doesn't even take into account the sales of movies, tv shows, etc...

Even previously stable market segments like eBooks and Amazon's Kindle have been drastically effected once Apple chooses to release a device that competes. I don't see any releases on the horizon that would be game changers in the opposite direction, though.

The bulk of my music purchases are still CD but when I want a digital track I usually end up back on iTunes simply because it's the quickest and easiest to use - and I'm not even buying for an Apple branded device.

jtfolden said:

lastdecember said:

well i gotta agree on all this, major competition is on the way, lets not forget that even though everyone owns some form of iPod, the percentage of music on their iPod purchased through the itunes store ranks around 3-5%, that shows that the device and the store are clearly not inSYNC

..or to look at it another way, nearly 30% of all music, and 70% of all digital music, purchased in the US comes by way of iTunes. So even if the percentage of purchased music on an average iPod is low, we still KNOW that no other digital vendor has a larger share.

Of course if we do look purely at digital sales, the bulk of vendors other than iTunes are still offering music downloads that are in an iPod compatible format.

Given the popularity of the brand, as long as iPods and other iOS based devices continue to hold the largest market share then a great majority of music purchases will be made via iTunes or those that support the devices in question.

This leads to the issue of how other vendors entering the market will manage to grab any market share (even a juggernaut like Amazon struggles for a 12% share)? They can't offer a store that doesn't support the iPod if they want to make any real money and if their store supports Apple products then what reason do people have for purchasing anything else?

I don't think Apple will care about competing services if those very services support the purchase of more iOS products (which will leads to a desire for apps, etc... only available from iTunes).

The above doesn't even take into account the sales of movies, tv shows, etc...

Even previously stable market segments like eBooks and Amazon's Kindle have been drastically effected once Apple chooses to release a device that competes. I don't see any releases on the horizon that would be game changers in the opposite direction, though.

The bulk of my music purchases are still CD but when I want a digital track I usually end up back on iTunes simply because it's the quickest and easiest to use - and I'm not even buying for an Apple branded device.

Well i think i the end when artists in bulk "figure it out" then everyone will have to play ball with each other, which is a different issue and understand your point and you are correct that no other online digital service has the hold, but also they arent showing growth in the transfer of customers overall to the digital source to equal the disappearance of the physical cd which is on the horizon. There still is a large gap, of people who still buy cds that cant be bothered with downloading tracks and printing out digital booklets especially in this "paced" culture, so there isnt a bridge to keep that "old school" fan as when the transfer occured from lp to cd. My point on "playing ball" is more about say older artists who still record who cant be bothered with the BS of labels and their uts and 360 deals, might still have the upperhand on iTunes as far getting larger cuts, or taking the music to another vendor that will give them that cut, the same going for indie artists.

rmartin70 said:

errant said:

went ahead and upgraded.

i don't really like it. I'm fine with them losing the color and going to grayscale in the user interface. and it does seem to be running and responding much faster.

but I really don't like the new list view. artist/album needs to go back to being under the artwork instead of at the side, or at the very least, text-wrapping if you want to make that column smaller. and they need to re-introduce re-sizing album artwork in its column. there also needs to be more definition between columns, and more line-to-line contrast in the background colors for the song titles in the grid.

if they'd fix that, i'd be fine with the whole thing, really. haven't tried Ping and not really interested in doing so. i hear you can't get rid of it once you activate it.

You can click on View at top left and change to Coverflow instead of Album List.

coverflow is as useless as the bare-bones list view when you've got 30,000+ songs. i need the column browser enabled.

AlexdeParis said:

I love all the misinformation on this thread. Hate on, haters!

Brother if I was hating on the thing I'd be complaining NOW. The iTunes's cool but I can't use it lol

[Edited 9/6/10 17:00pm]

jtfolden said:

Militant said:

Fuck iTunes.

It's a complete piece of shit. Sure it works better on a Mac... for the less than 10% market share of people who have Macs compared the 90%+ market share of Windows and Linux.

That's hilarious! I like how you grouped Linux with Windows as if to suggest Linux actually has any market share on its own.

...and the jokes just keep coming. I'm not an Apple zealot. I don't want an iPhone (I own a Pre) and don't want an iPad, but your post is pure hyperbole with little substance. Do you work in the marketing department at Google??

For those of you who don't follow the tech industry, just remember that I told you about Google Music right now, and let's see where we're at by the end of 2011.

I recall people saying similar things about Microsoft Zune...

The only thing I can agree with you on is that Ping is a failure right now, however I still think your reasoning behind that is wrong, too!

[Edited 9/6/10 15:06pm]

I think the point holds that for a music software that is used to purchase most music online and synch with most of the mp3 players in the world, iTunes is substandard. an embarrassment, really. it's the engine that's driving a major sector of their profits and it just doesn't cut it.

That's hilarious! I like how you grouped Linux with Windows as if to suggest Linux actually has any market share on its own.

It does. Something like 2% as I recall. Sure that sounds insignificant, but when you realize that OSX only has between 5% and 10%....

Also, hilarious! To have issues with iTunes is one thing... to then suggest MusicMatch, Songbird, hell even Windows Media Player, are bastions of stability and perfection is just deep fried comedy gold.

I didn't suggest that. I have issues with all of that software. Right now I use a combination of VLC Player and MediaMonkey Gold.

If you can fucking READ what I actually said, you'll see that I said "iTunes is the worst out of all of them", which suggests I don't think any of them are that amazing. And they aren't. But iTunes is EASILY the worst. It's just a terrible piece of software.

Wiped the floor?? You're killing me! Don't get me wrong, Android has done well for itself and it continues to do so but the fact that Android is available across multiple networks and most iOS devices are tied to a single one in any given market makes mincemeat out of simplistic comparisons. What do you think is going to happen when iOS devices start popping up on Verizon, just for a start. As for other devices, I have yet to see a single Android based tablet device that's worth paying for... To make matters worse, Google seems ready to throw Android under the bus in favor of a Chrome OS based tablet. It's hardly going to be the single, unified and free, universe you dream of... I predict one epic fail.

Nobody cares about iOS on Verizon any more. iOS devices are available across all carriers here in the UK and it hasn't stopped the Android onslaught. MG Siegler on TechCrunch tried to make that VZW point just yesterday and got obliterated. My simple comment rebuking his post recieved the highest rating of all the comments, nearly 400 "likes" placing it at the top of the comments list which is based on popularity. So obviously, nobody is agreeing with your (and his) point.

As for Android tablets? Both the Notion Ink Adam and the Samsung Galaxy Tab are worth paying for and they obliterate the iPad, which I've used extensively and discovered that it got old, FAST.

Google aren't "throwing Android under the bus" and Chrome OS, while it might end up on some tablets, is not their focus right now - they are aiming it more at netbooks to begin with. ANDROID is being developed for tablets, in fact, the upcoming Honeycomb 3.5 release is SPECIFICALLY developed with tablets in mind, and Google have partnered with Verizon and Motorola to make a tablet with the Droid branding, which if you didn't know, is the most successful Android product line to date.

your post is pure hyperbole with little substance.

No it isn't. You clearly do not know your history. Microsoft working with multiple OEM's to push their software compared to Apple only using their OS on their own, overpriced hardware? Hmmmmm..... sound familiar? It's E-X-A-C-T-L-Y how Apple lost the personal computing war and it's exactly how they are starting to lose the smartphone war as well.

The fact that compare Google Music to Zune shows you know nothing about it, so perhaps do some research before you make another failed attempt at having a serious debate.

[Edited 9/6/10 21:30pm]

[Edited 9/6/10 21:43pm]

ernestsewell said:

I'm sticking to Last.FM

is this an app? and why do you like it? Is it like Pandora? Can it run in background with the ISO 4.0?

Militant said:

Fuck iTunes.

It's a complete piece of shit. Sure it works better on a Mac... for the less than 10% market share of people who have Macs compared the 90%+ market share of Windows and Linux.

I've used every media player program under the sun. Since using WinAmp in 1998, to MusicMatch Jukebox in the early 2000's, to Windows Media Player, to MediaMonkey, to Songbird.

iTunes is the worst out of all of them.

Apple lucked out with the iPod in terms of forcing people to use iTunes.

As for Ping.....the less said the better.

So it's a social network..... that doesn't recognise anything other than iTunes PURCHASES.... that you can only access within the proprietary iTunes program. FAIL

It's like someone built a shitty social network ripped off from Facebook and Twitter, and then tried to add in features from last.fm, and then shoved it inside iTunes.

Garbage.

I can't wait for Google Music to launch this Christmas, fully synchronised with all Android devices, including Google TV as well as all the in-car entertainment systems being built on Android, as well as being fully functional within the browser, with complete wireless sync to any device and streaming your entire library from wherever you are.

Once that hits, iTunes can suck it.

Pair it with a whole bunch of dedicated media players from the likes of Sony, Samsung, LG, all running Android, and Apple are done for.

Android has wiped the floor with Apple in smartphones in less than 2 years. Next up - Google TV, Android tablets, and Android MP3 players/entertainment systems.

It's just like the late 80's and early 90's Microsoft VS Apple war. And the outcome will be EXACTLY the same - Apple will go from having majority market share to having a minimal piece of the whole pie, due to their insistence on policed, closed, proprietary hardware and software.

For those of you who don't follow the tech industry, just remember that I told you about Google Music right now, and let's see where we're at by the end of 2011.

preach!!

Militant said:

That's hilarious! I like how you grouped Linux with Windows as if to suggest Linux actually has any market share on its own.

It does. Something like 2% as I recall. Sure that sounds insignificant, but when you realize that OSX only has between 5% and 10%....

The most unbiased stats I've seen currently estimate Linux is hovering at around 0.85-0.93%. OS X's share is not huge but coupled with the market 'influence' that Apple seems to manage these days, they're worlds different. Even iOS, as young as it is, has a larger share than Linux at this point.

Nobody cares about iOS on Verizon any more. iOS devices are available across all carriers here in the UK and it hasn't stopped the Android onslaught. MG Siegler on TechCrunch tried to make that VZW point just yesterday and got obliterated. My simple comment rebuking his post recieved the highest rating of all the comments, nearly 400 "likes" placing it at the top of the comments list which is based on popularity. So obviously, nobody is agreeing with your (and his) point.

That's cute. Android is available across virtually all carriers and has barely half the market share of iOS devices available on only one carrier. A few fanatics "liking" a comment on a blog really has absolutely no influence on what people are going to do with their $$$ when it comes time to purchase. iPhone on Verizon would be a complete game changer on those figures alone.

However, the reality is that the average buyer doesn't care about what OS the phone runs (any more than they cared what OS was on their PC when they bought it), they care about specific phone brands and no single brand and model is currently as sought after, or has the market positioning, as the iPhone.

As for Android tablets? Both the Notion Ink Adam and the Samsung Galaxy Tab are worth paying for and they obliterate the iPad, which I've used extensively and discovered that it got old, FAST.

Frankly, the iPad was a dead deal for me the moment it was released with iOS rather than with a full fledged copy of OS X (which also makes an Android tablet an epic fail for me personally, for similar reasons)... BUT the market doesn't seem to care. From a marketing and mainstreaming aspect, Apple just kick started a new market.

On the other hand, the tablets you mention are a) late to the party, and b) apparently come at less than exciting price points. Neither one of those are going to make much of a show against the iPad any more than they would have if they'd come first. They are liable to make a little money riding Apple's coattails, though.

Google aren't "throwing Android under the bus" and Chrome OS, while it might end up on some tablets, is not their focus right now - they are aiming it more at netbooks to begin with.

Android is getting a lot of attention right now but there seem to be quite a few factors that make Chrome OS a better fit on Tablets than Netbooks (where I think it's going to be a dud). Google is going to end up with a fractured plan.

No it isn't. You clearly do not know your history. Microsoft working with multiple OEM's to push their software compared to Apple only using their OS on their own, overpriced hardware? Hmmmmm..... sound familiar? It's E-X-A-C-T-L-Y how Apple lost the personal computing war and it's exactly how they are starting to lose the smartphone war as well.

LOL That's really not it at all, actually. You're referencing why Windows was more popular than Apple but you're, conveniently, forgetting how MS got there to begin with and it was all thanks to a three letter OS sold to a three letter company. DOS and IBM. You may have heard of them.

IBM was the juggernaut with ties and fingers in all of the important tech sectors of the day. Apple was a tiny upstart.

By the time Windows and Mac were really facing off, Apple had already hobbled itself (including ousting Jobs for a start). On the other hand, today, they currently operate with greater profitability than any single PC vender.

Today, as well, Apple is the one selling the hardware that everyone is either wanting or buying (iPhone, iPod, iPad) and the market share for their software is reaping the same benefit that Windows got off of IBM and DOS.

(...and ironically, as a side note, when Microsoft was pulling the OEM shenanigans you mention it was having the greatest effect against IBM's OS/2 operating system - by which point, then, IBM had shot its own self in the foot by licensing out its hardware to anybody and his brother, thereby loosing all leverage to push OS/2 that way it had DOS... Indeed, MS won by being a monopoly and IBM failed for being too "open".)

The fact that compare Google Music to Zune shows you know nothing about it, so perhaps do some research before you make another failed attempt at having a serious debate.

To quote you "If you can fucking READ what I actually said" - my comparison was YOUR hyperbole to those pushing Zune, not a comparison of Google's effort and Zune. FAIL.

prodigalfan said:

ernestsewell said:

I'm sticking to Last.FM

is this an app? and why do you like it? Is it like Pandora? Can it run in background with the ISO 4.0?

No it's a site lol

http://last.fm

The most unbiased stats I've seen currently estimate Linux is hovering at around 0.85-0.93%. OS X's share is not huge but coupled with the market 'influence' that Apple seems to manage these days, they're worlds different. Even iOS, as young as it is, has a larger share than Linux at this point.

What are we even discussing now as far as this point goes? The original point I made is still valid. iTunes works better on a Mac, but there's fuck-all OSX machines in existence compared to Windows. I only really mentioned Linux originally because the OS wars are not just a 2-horse race. If you claim OSX has a great deal of "market influence", and it's share is at 6%, then Linux even with 1% would have a great deal of market influence too.

That's cute. Android is available across virtually all carriers and has barely half the market share of iOS devices available on only one carrier. A few fanatics "liking" a comment on a blog really has absolutely no influence on what people are going to do with their $$$ when it comes time to purchase. However, the reality is that the average buyer doesn't care about what OS the phone runs (any more than they cared what OS was on their PC when they bought it), they care about specific phone brands and no single brand and model is currently as sought after, or has the market positioning, as the iPhonee. iPhone on Verizon would be a complete game changer on those figures alone.

Android has been gaining substantial market share from iOS over the last 18 months, consistently. Check your figures. It's more than half the share now and gaining every month.

Prediction - Android will dominate iOS completely by the end of 2012, VZW iPhone or no VZW iPhone. No single brand or model? Try the Droid. Even in discussions on this forum we have a substantial amount of Droid users, and we represent a much more diverse set of people than any tech site or other music forum I've ever been on.

Frankly, the iPad was a dead deal for me the moment it was released with iOS rather than with a full fledged copy of OS X (which also makes an Android tablet an epic fail for me personally, for similar reasons)... BUT the market doesn't seem to care. From a marketing and mainstreaming aspect, Apple just kick started a new market.

On the other hand, the tablets you mention are a) late to the party, and b) apparently come at less than exciting price points. Neither one of those are going to make much of a show against the iPad any more than they would have if they'd come first. They are liable to make a little money riding Apple's coattails, though.

Time will tell. The Google/Motorola/VZW Droid-branded tablet is almost guaranteed to have some serious impact. But I'm really not big on tablets either.

Frankly Google is about to dominate a Market which Apple have failed in - internet TV. Google TV is hitting before Xmas and all signs are pointing towards it being a big hit. Something Apple TV is most definitely not.

Android is getting a lot of attention right now but there seem to be quite a few factors that make Chrome OS a better fit on Tablets than Netbooks (where I think it's going to be a dud). Google is going to end up with a fractured plan.

Which factors would those be?

And once again, there was zero hyperbole in the original post, therefore all the PHAIL is on you. Pwned.

Militant said:

The most unbiased stats I've seen currently estimate Linux is hovering at around 0.85-0.93%. OS X's share is not huge but coupled with the market 'influence' that Apple seems to manage these days, they're worlds different. Even iOS, as young as it is, has a larger share than Linux at this point.

What are we even discussing now as far as this point goes? The original point I made is still valid. iTunes works better on a Mac, but there's fuck-all OSX machines in existence compared to Windows. I only really mentioned Linux originally because the OS wars are not just a 2-horse race. If you claim OSX has a great deal of "market influence", and it's share is at 6%, then Linux even with 1% would have a great deal of market influence too.

Time will tell. The Google/Motorola/VZW Droid-branded tablet is almost guaranteed to have some serious impact. But I'm really not big on tablets either.

Frankly Google is about to dominate a Market which Apple have failed in - internet TV. Google TV is hitting before Xmas and all signs are pointing towards it being a big hit. Something Apple TV is most definitely not.

Android is getting a lot of attention right now but there seem to be quite a few factors that make Chrome OS a better fit on Tablets than Netbooks (where I think it's going to be a dud). Google is going to end up with a fractured plan.

Which factors would those be?

And once again, there was zero hyperbole in the original post, therefore all the PHAIL is on you. Pwned.

eh, I dunno. once the iPhone goes to Verizon, T-Mobile and Sprint, I think it's all over for Android. there's a reason they're rush-releasing the new one to recoup their investment before the iPhone is available on other carriers.

errant said:

eh, I dunno. once the iPhone goes to Verizon, T-Mobile and Sprint, I think it's all over for Android. there's a reason they're rush-releasing the new one to recoup their investment before the iPhone is available on other carriers.

Nah.

The fall-out from "Antennagate" hit hard. Apple aren't viewed as infallible anymore.

And that aside - iPhones have been available on every major carrier here in the UK for like 2 years now.

It hasn't helped them fight the Android onslaught.

The US is obviously a different market what with having CDMA networks and all.

Of course having iPhones available on different networks would definitely slow down Android adoption a LITTLE bit, but not by much. As Andy Rubin said, "It's a numbers game".

You've got super-high end and super low-end Android devices and everything in between on every carrier already. The market share is gaining rapidly. iOS and RIM are losing serious market share and I think Microsoft have simply left it too late with WP7 (although the tight integration with Xbox LIVE may yet work in their favor).

More and more people are waking up to the fact that they need their smartphone to have supertight integration with all the web services they ALREADY use - that's Google Search, Google Maps, YouTube, Gmail, Google Calendar, etc. You won't find tighter integration with any other OS.

Plus, it's FREE for hardware manufacturers to use.

There's 78 companies currently in the Open Handset Alliance (the alliance of all the companies with a vested interest in Android), including:

Google (obv)

Sprint

T-Mobile

Verizon

Motorola

eBay

Broadcom

Intel

NVIDIA

Qualcomm

Texas Instruments

HTC

LG

Samsung

Vodafone

Arm

Asus

Garmin

Huawei

Sony Ericsson

Toshiba

Dell

Acer

....and many more.

It's simply madness to believe that Apple can hold the fort for much longer against the power of all these companies together.

Sony have already said that their next PSP gaming device will be built on Android. So you can add Playstation branding into the Android equation - a much more powerful gaming brand than Apple.

Timmy84 said:

prodigalfan said:

is this an app? and why do you like it? Is it like Pandora? Can it run in background with the ISO 4.0?

No it's a site lol

http://last.fm

Last.fm draws from my ITunes collection. I love it because it is commercial free, at least for now, which annoys me about Pandora. Also, there are no skipping limitations. I didn't download the last two or three ITunes upgrades, but did downloaded 10. It's nothing special really. I've never had trouble with syncing the downloads/uploads to the Ipod, but I've heard stories. Ping is not going to be used. I could care less about what everybody else is listening to.

There is a last.fm app, for both Android and iOS. And yeah, I guess with iOS 4 it would be able to run in the background- something it's always been able to do on Android, which has TRUE multitasking unlike iOS's 7 specific API's for limited multitasking.

I'm on last.fm if any of y'all wanna add me as a friend - http://last.fm/user/s-endz

It's official: I am not the geekiest person on the org.

Militant said:

What are we even discussing now as far as this point goes? The original point I made is still valid. iTunes works better on a Mac, but there's fuck-all OSX machines in existence compared to Windows. I only really mentioned Linux originally because the OS wars are not just a 2-horse race. If you claim OSX has a great deal of "market influence", and it's share is at 6%, then Linux even with 1% would have a great deal of market influence too.

iTunes works just fine for plenty of people on Windows... If it didn't, they wouldn't use it. Users with iOS devices might be strapped to it in part but there's a huge number of people that don't own those devices that are still using it.

...and it really is a 2 horse desktop race. People have been crowing about "the year of Desktop Linux" for nearly 10 years now and it's never happened. Linux has no real influence. No one is rushing to release commercial software or worried about compatibility with Linux. It has a few token, half-hearted efforts from vendors here and there but the mainstream is completely oblivious to it. OS X, on the other hand, is supported almost across the board from all major vendors and software houses. It gets an incredible amount of attention for a fairly small user base. Call it a 'reality distortion field' or whatever but it has incredible mindshare.

Android has been gaining substantial market share from iOS over the last 18 months, consistently. Check your figures. It's more than half the share now and gaining every month.

I do check my figures. Quantcast is a great source in fact, and based on real usage in the US via web consumption Android has around 25% to iOS at 56%. In global market share, according to Net Applications, iOS has a 6:1 advantage over Android.

Prediction - Android will dominate iOS completely by the end of 2012, VZW iPhone or no VZW iPhone. No single brand or model? Try the Droid. Even in discussions on this forum we have a substantial amount of Droid users, and we represent a much more diverse set of people than any tech site or other music forum I've ever been on.

The Droid has sold well but it's numbers have come nowhere near the iPhone overall from what I've read. It's also worth noting that phone likely would not have sold near that number, nor received the push from the suppliers if the iPhone had been available on the same network. What kind of business has Android done on AT&T?

There's, also, the reality that people want an iPhone BECAUSE it's an iPhone. The average consumer doesn't go hunting down a particular phone because it's an Android based phone yet. Even if/when it has more base sales overall, it won't have the mindshare and market influence. Look at Symbian as an example of an OS lots of people use but don't care about.

Time will tell. The Google/Motorola/VZW Droid-branded tablet is almost guaranteed to have some serious impact. But I'm really not big on tablets either.

I think that really depends on whether the iPad is a success simply because of it's family connection to other iOS devices or if it's truly energized the Tablet market. Tablets generally haven't sold well before now.

Frankly Google is about to dominate a Market which Apple have failed in - internet TV. Google TV is hitting before Xmas and all signs are pointing towards it being a big hit. Something Apple TV is most definitely not.

I think it's, also, fair to point out that Apple has never treated Apple TV seriously. With almost all of it's products, Apple has only done something to sell more hardware. ATV seems the very reverse, it's just there as an adjunctive item to the iTunes Store - a way to see your existing video rentals and purchases on your TV. I tend to think Apple could have gone to the networks and pushed that device as an alternative to traditional cable/satellite and it doesn't seem like they've done this AT ALL.

Which factors would those be?

The biggest factor is that Chrome OS is meant to run web apps rather than normal desktop apps. You can get a netbook running Windows for almost nothing these days and it will run the normal apps you already have. Given that Netbooks tend to see more traditional use, and not uses where you're always connected to the 'net, I don't think Chrome is a great fit except in certain thin client style environments.

On the other hand, the iPad has shown that people don't mind/expect a full OS on their Tablet AND it's much more geared around web-usuage. An OS running web apps could be right at home here.

And once again, there was zero hyperbole in the original post, therefore all the PHAIL is on you. Pwned.

Of course it as full of hyperbole. You were raving about services and devices that aren't even released yet...

...and is it just me or is this quoting system dropping chunks of messages?

errant said:

eh, I dunno. once the iPhone goes to Verizon, T-Mobile and Sprint, I think it's all over for Android. there's a reason they're rush-releasing the new one to recoup their investment before the iPhone is available on other carriers.

I think this is true. There's a lot of pent up demand among users of other phone networks. Obviously all the other phone manufacturers will want to compete against Apple for a share but the networks themselves are going to push iPhone over everything else when they first get it. It's going to continue to be a flagship device while lesser phones underneath it are running Android, etc...

Militant said:

The fall-out from "Antennagate" hit hard. Apple aren't viewed as infallible anymore.

It did not. 'Antennagate' had no material effect on sales. In fact, the only thing putting a damper on sales at this point is a lack of supply.

Also, Apple has never, to my knowledge, been considered "infallible" when it comes to hardware. There's always been the running idea that you should never buy a 'revision A' product from Apple because it will have bugs or missing features. Hell, the first iPhone was seriously under-featured according to many and yet it still became a "Jesus phone"...

And that aside - iPhones have been available on every major carrier here in the UK for like 2 years now.

It hasn't helped them fight the Android onslaught.

Which is an odd statement given that iOS actually has more share overseas than it does in the US.

More and more people are waking up to the fact that they need their smartphone to have supertight integration with all the web services they ALREADY use - that's Google Search, Google Maps, YouTube, Gmail, Google Calendar, etc. You won't find tighter integration with any other OS.

Actually, the average user just cares about Apps. Any perceived superiority in other areas just doesn't matter. Palm found this out pretty quickly.

It's simply madness to believe that Apple can hold the fort for much longer against the power of all these companies together.

Against? Quite a few of those companies are falling over themselves now to sell iOS devices or supply the parts to build them. None of those phone networks are going to turn Apple down at this point.