Most of it has to do with the ickiness factor, that most American's no matter how tolerant they are of gay people, gay men in particular,, associate with Gays. In a lesser degree to lesbians. Why I don't think lesbians have to same distaste is major lesbians celebrities became more famous after they came out and there has yet to be a major gay male that has come out and gained more noteablity. Adam Lambert came out after AI, and not by choice but because Perez forced the issue and several people I personally know in SD wouldn't remove the photos they had with Adam, who lived in SD prior to going on AI, Ricky Elton and George all came out after they had be elder statesmen of Pop.

Gay people exisit on the extremes of culture and serve as boundries as what is acceptable in the mainstream. Like don't do that because than you'd be precieved as gay. Being an out gay man is the most subversive thing you can do in a patriarchal society. A society based on the power of the will of men, there is nothing more humaliting than to submit to the will of a man, and as gay man you state that you chose to submit to the will of another man. regardless of your sexual position. and this submission doesn't make you less than but equal too.

Music is marketed to women: the men are people you want to have sex with and the women are people you want to be like

Music is marketed to men: the men are the people you want to be like and the women are the peope you want to sleep with.

The problem with gay acts is who and how do they market the band? What is the image for the band. Bands like Scissor Sisters which are not ony openly gay but flamboyant present the probem of what to do. They cannot market it to most straight women because the women know the fantasy of possibly meeting one of the members and having sex/falling in love will never happen and no American Hetreo male would think of wanitng to submit to another man.

Than acts like Grace Jones and Kylie Minogue don't hide the influence of gay culture and include it in their acts causing peope to be uncomfortable. No straight man wants to go see Kylie's male dancers who as VC put it look like they stepped out of gay porn dancing with each other. In fact every review of Kylie's NA tour the crtics would go out of their to avoid calling the audeince mostly gay...handsome men, men with feather boas and glitter, whatever thinly veiled reference they could come up with that didn't make mention that the straight critic had to be surronded by the scariest of cultures, Gay Male culture. Though, i call it the Will & Grace factor, many straight women claim they want a gay male friends... it's more of a selfish obession with wanting a male figure give them fashion tips and tell them how great they are, very few women have what it takes to be a true fag hag and be totally absorbed into the gay culture the way Grace and Kylie are. Also Grace suffers the double sin of being a strong black woman.

Madonna and Lady Gaga are the rare exception embracing enteriy gay culture and presenting to mainstream American, but because they are strong white women they are marketed in a way that makes teenage girls say they want to be like that...

[Edited 9/4/10 0:08am]

meow85 said:

To actually answer the thread, yes. I think it's pretty obvious queer or queer-friendly performers' mainstream success is limited. Those that are big are usually, for lack of a better term, publicly sexless. Take Elton John, for example. While he does have a HUGE amount of mainstream success and it is generally known he has a boyfriend/husband -can anyone think of any EJ songs that are clearly read as same-sex oriented? The man has some fantastic love songs but they're all safe and gender neutral. Same too for many other LGBT/friendly acts.

The One, Last Song are definitely not neutral songs. Someone saved my life tonight is about John Reid his gay manager and gay partner at the time stopping Elton from topping himself after some revolting woman tried to force him to marry her. Queen Bitch and the Bitch is Back also hint at Eltons sexual preferences in the 70s. Made in England (An autobiographical song) includes the line "You can say Homo and everyone laughs but the joke is on you"

How can you say hes neutral, Dame Elton John is the gayest man alive and we all love him for that. You should really watch Tantrums and Tiaras and thens theres those over the top costumes including the 13 foot long Georgian wig he had at his 50th birthday, and he did all this stuff back in the 90s!

ehuffnsd said:

Most of it has to do with the ickiness factor, that most American's no matter how tolerant they are of gay people, gay men in particular,, associate with Gays. In a lesser degree to lesbians. Why I don't think lesbians have to same distaste is major lesbians celebrities became more famous after they came out and there has yet to be a major gay male that has come out and gained more noteablity. Adam Lambert came out after AI, and not by choice but because Perez forced the issue and several people I personally know in SD wouldn't remove the photos they had with Adam, who lived in SD prior to going on AI, Ricky Elton and George all came out after they had be elder statesmen of Pop.

Gay people exisit on the extremes of culture and serve as boundries as what is acceptable in the mainstream. Like don't do that because than you'd be precieved as gay. Being an out gay man is the most subversive thing you can do in a patriarchal society. A society based on the power of the will of men, there is nothing more humaliting than to submit to the will of a man, and as gay man you state that you chose to submit to the will of another man. regardless of your sexual position. and this submission doesn't make you less than but equal too.

Music is marketed to women: the men are people you want to have sex with and the women are people you want to be like

Music is marketed to men: the men are the people you want to be like and the women are the peope you want to sleep with.

The problem with gay acts is who and how do they market the band? What is the image for the band. Bands like Scissor Sisters which are not ony openly gay but flamboyant present the probem of what to do. They cannot market it to most straight women because the women know the fantasy of possibly meeting one of the members and having sex/falling in love will never happen and no American Hetreo male would think of wanitng to submit to another man.

Than acts like Grace Jones and Kylie Minogue don't hide the influence of gay culture and include it in their acts causing peope to be uncomfortable. No straight man wants to go see Kylie's male dancers who as VC put it look like they stepped out of gay porn dancing with each other. In fact every review of Kylie's NA tour the crtics would go out of their to avoid calling the audeince mostly gay...handsome men, men with feather boas and glitter, whatever thinly veiled reference they could come up with that didn't make mention that the straight critic had to be surronded by the scariest of cultures, Gay Male culture. Though, i call it the Will & Grace factor, many straight women claim they want a gay male friends... it's more of a selfish obession with wanting a male figure give them fashion tips and tell them how great they are, very few women have what it takes to be a true fag hag and be totally absorbed into the gay culture the way Grace and Kylie are. Also Grace suffers the double sin of being a strong black woman.

Madonna and Lady Gaga are the rare exception embracing enteriy gay culture and presenting to mainstream American, but because they are strong white women they are marketed in a way that makes teenage girls say they want to be like that...

[Edited 9/4/10 0:08am]

Very well said. Just being at a Lady Gaga concert last week I could tell there was quite a culture shock for some.

Huggiebear said:

meow85 said:

To actually answer the thread, yes. I think it's pretty obvious queer or queer-friendly performers' mainstream success is limited. Those that are big are usually, for lack of a better term, publicly sexless. Take Elton John, for example. While he does have a HUGE amount of mainstream success and it is generally known he has a boyfriend/husband -can anyone think of any EJ songs that are clearly read as same-sex oriented? The man has some fantastic love songs but they're all safe and gender neutral. Same too for many other LGBT/friendly acts.

The One, Last Song are definitely not neutral songs. Someone saved my life tonight is about John Reid his gay manager and gay partner at the time stopping Elton from topping himself after some revolting woman tried to force him to marry her. Queen Bitch and the Bitch is Back also hint at Eltons sexual preferences in the 70s. Made in England (An autobiographical song) includes the line "You can say Homo and everyone laughs but the joke is on you"

How can you say hes neutral, Dame Elton John is the gayest man alive and we all love him for that. You should really watch Tantrums and Tiaras and thens theres those over the top costumes including the 13 foot long Georgian wig he had at his 50th birthday, and he did all this stuff back in the 90s!

Elton doesn't write the lyrics.

Chris Brown is doing quite well in America.

There are more straight people than gay people

simple as that,.

ehuffnsd said:

Huggiebear said:

The One, Last Song are definitely not neutral songs. Someone saved my life tonight is about John Reid his gay manager and gay partner at the time stopping Elton from topping himself after some revolting woman tried to force him to marry her. Queen Bitch and the Bitch is Back also hint at Eltons sexual preferences in the 70s. Made in England (An autobiographical song) includes the line "You can say Homo and everyone laughs but the joke is on you"

How can you say hes neutral, Dame Elton John is the gayest man alive and we all love him for that. You should really watch Tantrums and Tiaras and thens theres those over the top costumes including the 13 foot long Georgian wig he had at his 50th birthday, and he did all this stuff back in the 90s!

Elton doesn't write the lyrics.

Yes but he kind of tells Bernie Taupin, what he wants in the songs. And he does write the mucis, Berniew the Words. What I was trying to say is Elton is visibly gay and at least since 1992's the one he has been. Songs about getting girls kind of ended with that album.

Hes probably not as successful anymore as hes considered an 'oldie' performer now (Although he still great live) I saw him 2 years ago, a great show.

minneapolisFunq said:

There are more straight people than gay people

simple as that,.

When the balance tipped for the dinosaurs they became extinct.

Huggiebear said:

meow85 said:

To actually answer the thread, yes. I think it's pretty obvious queer or queer-friendly performers' mainstream success is limited. Those that are big are usually, for lack of a better term, publicly sexless. Take Elton John, for example. While he does have a HUGE amount of mainstream success and it is generally known he has a boyfriend/husband -can anyone think of any EJ songs that are clearly read as same-sex oriented? The man has some fantastic love songs but they're all safe and gender neutral. Same too for many other LGBT/friendly acts.

The One, Last Song are definitely not neutral songs. Someone saved my life tonight is about John Reid his gay manager and gay partner at the time stopping Elton from topping himself after some revolting woman tried to force him to marry her. Queen Bitch and the Bitch is Back also hint at Eltons sexual preferences in the 70s. Made in England (An autobiographical song) includes the line "You can say Homo and everyone laughs but the joke is on you"

How can you say hes neutral, Dame Elton John is the gayest man alive and we all love him for that. You should really watch Tantrums and Tiaras and thens theres those over the top costumes including the 13 foot long Georgian wig he had at his 50th birthday, and he did all this stuff back in the 90s!

Those are but a few small examples in a huge discography and many people, including this listener, would disagree that all of them are clearly gay-themed.

For the most part, John's music and image is devoid of direct references to his sexuality. Not that he's obligated to, but his relative sexlessness IMO plays a big part in his mainstream success.