mimi07 said:

Instead of the Gold Black Awards it should have been called The Michael Jackson Show.

I remember the Grammy's was pretty much the same,he practically won them all.

[Edited 8/27/10 22:41pm]

he looks so country in that getup

whatsgoingon said:

That is wrong, he was at his peak internationally during the Thriller period too. I don't know where people get this idea that Thriller was just an American thing, it was far from an American thing, it was an international thing, infact the reason why Thriller is the best selling album ever is because it sold considerably over seas as well as in America. I was abroad during the Thriller period and the songs and MJ was all over the place.

The only thing that the Bad era had over the Thriller period is that he took the Bad tour international which he didn't do with the Victory tour. I remember people from places like Africa, where he had been famous since he was in the J5, saying they didn't like him much after Thriller because he had changed so much.

[Edited 8/26/10 11:05am]

The thing is that while album sales /= quality, they do equal popularity. There are quite a few places in the world, many places actually, where Bad has outsold Thriller considerably. I'm not insinuating that Thriller was US only, because it wasn't, but a big portion of the mania was US based. A lot of the Thriller related merchandise was US based as well. For example in the UK Bad is only slightly behind Thriller by like 200K in terms of album sales as opposed to the US where it's off by millions. That means that even after how many years in between both albums he was still experiencing a 'peak.' If he wasn't then his sales wouldn't have been as strong internationally post-Thriller. Also, as you previously stated, he was touring extensively outside of the US. The Bad era was the first time he toured outside of the US in his solo career. Knowing all that and then to make the broad claim that Thriller was his peak internationally doesn't make any logical sense.

Though, sometimes I think how an individual feels about race and racial identity affects which era of MJ they are attracted to or not attracted to. There is nothing right or wrong about it, but it's an interesting observation. I felt that he belonged to everyone and the fact that people from anywhere can find a certain era of MJ that they can be embrace is pretty awesome, whether I agree with it or not. Take for instance, there's that statue of MJ in the Brazilian city where he filmed They Don't Care About Us, but they chose to represent Michael as he came to them at that time rather than picking out a look he had when he was younger. Or, there's this guy: http://www.siliclone.fr/default.html

If you look at the silicone statues this french artist did of MJ, a much lighter skin tone is utilized even though the face seems to have come from the Bad era. I guess the reason why I find it interesting is because says a lot about people. At least, I think so. This is also what happened to the depiction of a couple of other well known figures in history. In an attempt to avoid stepping on any toes I will go for the less obvious example and pick someone such as Ludwig Van Beethoven. He was half Moor even though you would never be able to tell from various depictions of the man.

BabyBeMine said:

Bad and Dangerous Mike is to womenish. Handsome is always better tha a man trying to be to pretty

While to each his own, I will say that as long as he was a man where it really counted that's what really matters no? I think that the only time period I had a real issue with was Invincible era and that weird haircut he had during the HIStory era, but I never had any strong opinions about his physical looks. Ever. Physical looks was the last thing on my mind when I was shelling out $20+ of my hard earned money for one of his CDs. I was thinking more on the lines of "This has better be some damn good music on this album!!!!111"

Also you mentioned that the look of a 1980 MJ would be way more popular in a 2010 environment, but from what I remember, I don't ever remember it being cool to roam around with monkeys on your arms back in the late 80s or to dress up like Captain Crunch in the early 80s either. One of the main reasons I like MJ because he was different and not doing what everyone else was doing even when he was heavily criticized for it. I always thought that he was just doing his own thing. I always respected that the most about him.

Unholyalliance said:

whatsgoingon said:

That is wrong, he was at his peak internationally during the Thriller period too. I don't know where people get this idea that Thriller was just an American thing, it was far from an American thing, it was an international thing, infact the reason why Thriller is the best selling album ever is because it sold considerably over seas as well as in America. I was abroad during the Thriller period and the songs and MJ was all over the place.

The only thing that the Bad era had over the Thriller period is that he took the Bad tour international which he didn't do with the Victory tour. I remember people from places like Africa, where he had been famous since he was in the J5, saying they didn't like him much after Thriller because he had changed so much.

[Edited 8/26/10 11:05am]

The thing is that while album sales /= quality, they do equal popularity. There are quite a few places in the world, many places actually, where Bad has outsold Thriller considerably. I'm not insinuating that Thriller was US only, because it wasn't, but a big portion of the mania was US based. A lot of the Thriller related merchandise was US based as well. For example in the UK Bad is only slightly behind Thriller by like 200K in terms of album sales as opposed to the US where it's off by millions. That means that even after how many years in between both albums he was still experiencing a 'peak.' If he wasn't then his sales wouldn't have been as strong internationally post-Thriller. Also, as you previously stated, he was touring extensively outside of the US. The Bad era was the first time he toured outside of the US in his solo career. Knowing all that and then to make the broad claim that Thriller was his peak internationally doesn't make any logical sense.

Though, sometimes I think how an individual feels about race and racial identity affects which era of MJ they are attracted to or not attracted to. There is nothing right or wrong about it, but it's an interesting observation. I felt that he belonged to everyone and the fact that people from anywhere can find a certain era of MJ that they can be embrace is pretty awesome, whether I agree with it or not. Take for instance, there's that statue of MJ in the Brazilian city where he filmed They Don't Care About Us, but they chose to represent Michael as he came to them at that time rather than picking out a look he had when he was younger. Or, there's this guy: http://www.siliclone.fr/default.html

If you look at the silicone statues this french artist did of MJ, a much lighter skin tone is utilized even though the face seems to have come from the Bad era. I guess the reason why I find it interesting is because says a lot about people. At least, I think so. This is also what happened to the depiction of a couple of other well known figures in history. In an attempt to avoid stepping on any toes I will go for the less obvious example and pick someone such as Ludwig Van Beethoven. He was half Moor even though you would never be able to tell from various depictions of the man.

BabyBeMine said:

Bad and Dangerous Mike is to womenish. Handsome is always better tha a man trying to be to pretty

While to each his own, I will say that as long as he was a man where it really counted that's what really matters no? I think that the only time period I had a real issue with was Invincible era and that weird haircut he had during the HIStory era, but I never had any strong opinions about his physical looks. Ever. Physical looks was the last thing on my mind when I was shelling out $20+ of my hard earned money for one of his CDs. I was thinking more on the lines of "This has better be some damn good music on this album!!!!111"

Also you mentioned that the look of a 1980 MJ would be way more popular in a 2010 environment, but from what I remember, I don't ever remember it being cool to roam around with monkeys on your arms back in the late 80s or to dress up like Captain Crunch in the early 80s either. One of the main reasons I like MJ because he was different and not doing what everyone else was doing even when he was heavily criticized for it. I always thought that he was just doing his own thing. I always respected that the most about him.

interesting read, I also remember at some point Bad was the third best selling album in the UK, still is I think though I'm not sure.

Even though I like all of his "era" for looks, I was first introduced to his Thriller look as a toddler and then as I was in kindergarten, Bad came out and I didn't believe it was him though I was told but didn't argue cause then I looked and realized it was and that I was too young to get it, so I didn't question it, and then black or white came out and same thing again but I liked how he looked anyway though I still didn't understand. I didn't know why he was getting whiter and whiter and I heard someone say they didn't like him cause of that and I didn't get it either and was insecure about my own identity in general, but then I found out it was a skin disease causing it and felt so bad no one talked about it, but I had my answer. Anyways I always knew he was a black man no matter how he looked, but I find myself drawn to Thriller through early/mid Dangerous most with bits of the other eras time to time. Always beautiful to me.

EmeraldSkies said:

Timmy84 said:

[img:$uid]http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/54/tumblr_ky10i79Wh71qzu6nxo1_500.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://www.blogcdn.com/www.urlesque.com/media/2010/04/urkel.gif[/img:$uid]

EmeraldSkies said:

mimi07 said:

Instead of the Gold Black Awards it should have been called The Michael Jackson Show.

I remember the Grammy's was pretty much the same,he practically won them all.

[Edited 8/27/10 22:41pm]

yeah he was so whispery and soft during OTW and Thriller, I like how he was talking more during the other eras, but throughout it all, he had a sweet, quiet sense of humor...and I love hearing stories of how he was such a prankster and convincing and all the funny shit he did. He would have been a fun friend to have.

alphastreet said:

Even though I like all of his "era" for looks, I was first introduced to his Thriller look as a toddler and then as I was in kindergarten, Bad came out and I didn't believe it was him though I was told but didn't argue cause then I looked and realized it was and that I was too young to get it, so I didn't question it, and then black or white came out and same thing again but I liked how he looked anyway though I still didn't understand. I didn't know why he was getting whiter and whiter and I heard someone say they didn't like him cause of that and I didn't get it either and was insecure about my own identity in general, but then I found out it was a skin disease causing it and felt so bad no one talked about it, but I had my answer. Anyways I always knew he was a black man no matter how he looked, but I find myself drawn to Thriller through early/mid Dangerous most with bits of the other eras time to time. Always beautiful to me.

I remember not knowing what vitiligo was when he said that he had it back in 1993, but then, as I got older and I got to travel more I started running into people who had really big splotches of lighter pigment on their much darker skin tones. I felt bad for staring, because it's not easy to go outside like that since people are looking at you. I always felt that skin diseases affect you way more psychologically since they are much harder to hide. You don't have the luxury of being able to just ignore it since it's not happening on the inside of your body. I had a temporary one once and I hid in black sweaters that entire time in the summer until whatever I had went away. He didn't have that choice and he was going out there everyday knowing that people were going to make fun of him and judge him.

Thinking about it in that way I can, truly, realize and appreciate how strong of a person he was even though many try to paint him as some punk or wussy.

Unholyalliance said:

alphastreet said:

Even though I like all of his "era" for looks, I was first introduced to his Thriller look as a toddler and then as I was in kindergarten, Bad came out and I didn't believe it was him though I was told but didn't argue cause then I looked and realized it was and that I was too young to get it, so I didn't question it, and then black or white came out and same thing again but I liked how he looked anyway though I still didn't understand. I didn't know why he was getting whiter and whiter and I heard someone say they didn't like him cause of that and I didn't get it either and was insecure about my own identity in general, but then I found out it was a skin disease causing it and felt so bad no one talked about it, but I had my answer. Anyways I always knew he was a black man no matter how he looked, but I find myself drawn to Thriller through early/mid Dangerous most with bits of the other eras time to time. Always beautiful to me.

I remember not knowing what vitiligo was when he said that he had it back in 1993, but then, as I got older and I got to travel more I started running into people who had really big splotches of lighter pigment on their much darker skin tones. I felt bad for staring, because it's not easy to go outside like that since people are looking at you. I always felt that skin diseases affect you way more psychologically since they are much harder to hide. You don't have the luxury of being able to just ignore it since it's not happening on the inside of your body. I had a temporary one once and I hid in black sweaters that entire time in the summer until whatever I had went away. He didn't have that choice and he was going out there everyday knowing that people were going to make fun of him and judge him.

Thinking about it in that way I can, truly, realize and appreciate how strong of a person he was even though many try to paint him as some punk or wussy.

yeah I saw people with vitiligo too as I got older and I remember a girl with patches too on her arms and not knowing why they were like that and connecting why she wore her jacket in class unlike the others.

I had a skin disease for 2 weeks one summer a few years ago where I broke out everywhere and it was spreading everywhere except my face and it was burning like crazy and was scary to look at! I wore sweaters the whole time until it was gone and even when it went away my arms looked discoloured in dark patches a little bit but continued to fade with time. I knew then that's exactly what michael went through.

MyNameIsPiper said:

suga10 said:

Is it just me is Prince starting to look like Arnie Klein a bit.

Nah. That's Michael's original nose and chin all the way.

[img:$uid]http://img638.i.../img:$uid][img:$uid]http://img251.i.../img:$uid]

motownlover said:

maybe for bboy or timmy , i remember a pic of mike and joe walking out of court laughing out loud and mike looked real funny in that pic . but its hard to find , maybe do you guys know wich one(s) im talking about

This one?

[img:$uid]http://img64.im.../img:$uid]

I can't believe you are starting this again

Anybody eager to post analysis of blotches on his kid's skin? Authopsy results, perhaps? Discuss in detail everything about sperm cells or what was in Michael's pants??

Unholyalliance said:

whatsgoingon said:

That is wrong, he was at his peak internationally during the Thriller period too. I don't know where people get this idea that Thriller was just an American thing, it was far from an American thing, it was an international thing, infact the reason why Thriller is the best selling album ever is because it sold considerably over seas as well as in America. I was abroad during the Thriller period and the songs and MJ was all over the place.

The only thing that the Bad era had over the Thriller period is that he took the Bad tour international which he didn't do with the Victory tour. I remember people from places like Africa, where he had been famous since he was in the J5, saying they didn't like him much after Thriller because he had changed so much.

[Edited 8/26/10 11:05am]

The thing is that while album sales /= quality, they do equal popularity. There are quite a few places in the world, many places actually, where Bad has outsold Thriller considerably. I'm not insinuating that Thriller was US only, because it wasn't, but a big portion of the mania was US based. A lot of the Thriller related merchandise was US based as well. For example in the UK Bad is only slightly behind Thriller by like 200K in terms of album sales as opposed to the US where it's off by millions. That means that even after how many years in between both albums he was still experiencing a 'peak.' If he wasn't then his sales wouldn't have been as strong internationally post-Thriller. Also, as you previously stated, he was touring extensively outside of the US. The Bad era was the first time he toured outside of the US in his solo career. Knowing all that and then to make the broad claim that Thriller was his peak internationally doesn't make any logical sense.

Though, sometimes I think how an individual feels about race and racial identity affects which era of MJ they are attracted to or not attracted to. There is nothing right or wrong about it, but it's an interesting observation. I felt that he belonged to everyone and the fact that people from anywhere can find a certain era of MJ that they can be embrace is pretty awesome, whether I agree with it or not. Take for instance, there's that statue of MJ in the Brazilian city where he filmed They Don't Care About Us, but they chose to represent Michael as he came to them at that time rather than picking out a look he had when he was younger. Or, there's this guy: http://www.siliclone.fr/default.html

If you look at the silicone statues this french artist did of MJ, a much lighter skin tone is utilized even though the face seems to have come from the Bad era. I guess the reason why I find it interesting is because says a lot about people. At least, I think so. This is also what happened to the depiction of a couple of other well known figures in history. In an attempt to avoid stepping on any toes I will go for the less obvious example and pick someone such as Ludwig Van Beethoven. He was half Moor even though you would never be able to tell from various depictions of the man.

BabyBeMine said:

Bad and Dangerous Mike is to womenish. Handsome is always better tha a man trying to be to pretty

While to each his own, I will say that as long as he was a man where it really counted that's what really matters no? I think that the only time period I had a real issue with was Invincible era and that weird haircut he had during the HIStory era, but I never had any strong opinions about his physical looks. Ever. Physical looks was the last thing on my mind when I was shelling out $20+ of my hard earned money for one of his CDs. I was thinking more on the lines of "This has better be some damn good music on this album!!!!111"

Also you mentioned that the look of a 1980 MJ would be way more popular in a 2010 environment, but from what I remember, I don't ever remember it being cool to roam around with monkeys on your arms back in the late 80s or to dress up like Captain Crunch in the early 80s either. One of the main reasons I like MJ because he was different and not doing what everyone else was doing even when he was heavily criticized for it. I always thought that he was just doing his own thing. I always respected that the most about him.

The fact of the matter is, there are many places in the world where Thriller outsold all he other albums, not only in America. True his other albums sold better abroad than Thriller, but that didn't mean they sold better than Thriller everywhere. Thriller made MJ legendary not BAD OR DANGEROUS. And by the time Bad came people in America and abroad already thought he had gone too far with the surgery. The only peeps who truely thought MJ was at his peak with looks and in other ways during the Bad era were those who became his fans during that time and can not remember MJ prior to Thriller. I am talking as a person who remembers MJ from the J5 days, so I think I am in a very good position to see how views changed regarding how the world viewed MJ over the years.

whatsgoingon said:

Unholyalliance said:

While to each his own, I will say that as long as he was a man where it really counted that's what really matters no? I think that the only time period I had a real issue with was Invincible era and that weird haircut he had during the HIStory era, but I never had any strong opinions about his physical looks. Ever. Physical looks was the last thing on my mind when I was shelling out $20+ of my hard earned money for one of his CDs. I was thinking more on the lines of "This has better be some damn good music on this album!!!!111"

Also you mentioned that the look of a 1980 MJ would be way more popular in a 2010 environment, but from what I remember, I don't ever remember it being cool to roam around with monkeys on your arms back in the late 80s or to dress up like Captain Crunch in the early 80s either. One of the main reasons I like MJ because he was different and not doing what everyone else was doing even when he was heavily criticized for it. I always thought that he was just doing his own thing. I always respected that the most about him.

The fact of the matter is, there are many places in the world where Thriller outsold all he other albums, not only in America. True his other albums sold better abroad than Thriller, but that didn't mean they sold better than Thriller everywhere. Thriller made MJ legendary not BAD OR DANGEROUS. And by the time Bad came people in America and abroad already thought he had gone too far with the surgery. The only peeps who truely thought MJ was at his peak with looks and in other ways during the Bad era were those who became his fans during that time and can not remember MJ prior to Thriller. I am talking as a person who remembers MJ from the J5 days, so I think I am in a very good position to see how views changed regarding how the world viewed MJ over the years.

Funny thing is that outside fans, I don´t really remember people thinking Mike look good and if anyone mentioned it, they would comment on some older picture, not necessarily before the plastic surgery, just some older one, but at the time of when the picture was taken, I remember him being ridiculed as well. See, I have sometimes hard times figuring people out. It´s the same as everyone suddenly loving him after death while hating and ridiculing him the day before he died.

alphastreet said:

funny you say that, cause after the death, I heard some people admit he looked good even with the long curls and pale skin, and before it, no one would be caught dead admitting that, the culture shock of this whole ordeal was just something else

but androgynous men are way more accepted today than 30 years ago, so that makes people more openminded about mj's look as well I think, cause of "guyliner" being popular and such

Nah, people were just always idiotic, brainwashed when it came to MJ. They just kept making fun of it cuase it was "in" to do so. They were even calling him feminine-looking in a time when most rockers looked like this.

[Edited 8/28/10 2:52am]

suga10 said:

I love this version of Ben at the Triumph Tour

[Edited 8/26/10 20:11pm]

Damn, I can´t listen to all the videos cause my speakers are not working.

suga10 said:

EmeraldSkies said:

[img:$uid]http://www.blogcdn.com/www.urlesque.com/media/2010/04/urkel.gif[/img:$uid]

Yes Urkel you did.

whatsgoingon said:

The fact of the matter is, there are many places in the world where Thriller outsold all he other albums, not only in America. True his other albums sold better abroad than Thriller, but that didn't mean they sold better than Thriller everywhere. Thriller made MJ legendary not BAD OR DANGEROUS. And by the time Bad came people in America and abroad already thought he had gone too far with the surgery. The only peeps who truely thought MJ was at his peak with looks and in other ways during the Bad era were those who became his fans during that time and can not remember MJ prior to Thriller. I am talking as a person who remembers MJ from the J5 days, so I think I am in a very good position to see how views changed regarding how the world viewed MJ over the years.

I think we can all agree that there are some places in the world where one outsold the other and there are places where both albums are just as popular as the other.

Other than that, it's time I take back this discussion. This isn't about when MJ looked his best in any era. Not at all, because according to some people, he looked ugly, regardless. This is about whether or not his transformations made him more accessible outside of the US and to various groups of people. I'm saying that even though people like the fact that the man was 'international', but the thing that could have contributed to making him international is what many criticized him for.

Is it people just holding onto the memory of the time where MJ affected their lives most or are they embracing the one that's closest to them racially? Is it a combo of both?

Whether or not he could be considered 'attractive' is really beside the point.

For once Oxman might have it right...

A lawyer representing Michael Jackson's family has condemned plans for a memorabilia auction in China in October - insisting the late superstar "would be turning in his grave" if he knew about the sale.

A rare black, bejewelled glove worn by the King of Pop in 1995, said to be worth up to $50,000, is among the lots of stage costumes, original paintings and handwritten notes set to go under the hammer at the Julien's Auctions sale in Macau, China on Oct. 9, 2010.

But the planned sale has infuriated longtime Jackson family spokesman Brian Oxman, who claims Jackson attempted to block the auction just weeks before his tragic death last year.

Oxman tells Britain's Daily Star, "This is an outrage. Back in May of 2009 there was to be an auction. Michael demanded it was stopped. He never wanted this material to be auctioned. As soon as Michael Jackson was dead, Julien's Auctions was negotiating again with estate representatives. That was the very auction that Michael Jackson paid a lot of money to stop. He would be furious. He would be turning in his grave. This was to be his legacy to his children, and the legacy of his children is being sold off."

Julien's Auctions boss Darren Julien says, "It's the best collection of Michael Jackson items that we've ever assembled and it all came to us from his family and from the friends he gave them to."

--------

This is really upsetting if this is actually what went down. It is sad to think that

Michael's own family would hock some of this stuff that his kids might have

wanted for personal reasons. I wanted to believe it was Dr. (of nothing in

reality) Tohme responsible for this, but it sounds like some in his family

might be vultures also. (Not shocking.) Something about this just seems

very wrong and unfair.

Unholyalliance said:

This is about whether or not his transformations made him more accessible outside of the US and to various groups of people. I'm saying that even though people like the fact that the man was 'international', but the thing that could have contributed to making him international is what many criticized him for.

YES, of course

Though you hopefully understand that this topic is only a small step away from the discussion whether it was a coincidence or a smart business decision of his - which will inevitably lead once again to the question of his racial identity and end up in another messy fight.

But, alright, yes: in Asia, for instance (with the exception of Japan, for they are a different story).

There is no way Asian natives would find pre-Thriller or Thriller-JM beautiful or even attractive. I lived there and could sing a song about their idea of "pure beauty". Dangerous-looks was absolutely perfect in their eyes (Still wondering yet how they ever managed to swallow his crotch-grabbing ... they are modest folks too).

According to some twitts the same goes for Bad era and South America, but I am not collecting links and can't confirm it first-hand.

The success of HIStory, though, IMHO, had nothing to do with his looks any more. It was a feast of loyalty and support - at least here. MJ could have painted himself green and implanted an addional couple of ears - and would have remained as successful.

[Edited 8/28/10 10:00am]

Timmy84 said:

suga10 said:

Is it just me is Prince starting to look like Arnie Klein a bit.

[img:$uid]http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/54/tumblr_ky10i79Wh71qzu6nxo1_500.jpg[/img:$uid]

I also like the Star Trek gif that bboy posts.

Vanilli said:

Since you mention about a ghost video, what do you think about the whole death hoax rumors?

I still wonder why Jermaine would say all that he said here.

"Michael was not with us way before he arrived to the airport (Jermaine throws his hands in the hair, and makes this smirk-like face expression"

Then he says: "I mean way before he arrived to the hospital, which led to a conspiracy"

"Its all going to come out". "Its all going to unfold"

"I can't say what it is, but I know, he always felt that his life was going to be taken"

[Edited 8/28/10 11:34am]

suga10 said:

Vanilli said:

Since you mention about a ghost video, what do you think about the whole death hoax rumors?

I still wonder why Jermaine would say all that he said here.

"Michael was not with us way before he arrived to the airport (Jermaine throws his hands in the hair, and makes this smirk-like face expression"

Then he says: "I mean way before he arrived to the hospital, which led to a conspiracy"

"Its all going to come out". "Its all going to unfold"

"I can't say what it is, but I know, he always felt that his life was going to be taken"

Larry King: "What to do you make of the whole Michael Jackson thing, he is still dead by the way"

Akon

[Edited 8/28/10 11:16am]

First of all, let me just say suga10 - thank you for posting these fascinating links. While I personally believe Michael passed away, 1% of me wants to hold out hope he faked his

death. The thing with Jermaine..the expression sure looked like "Ooops" but then again,

it might have been an honest goof. To his credit, Jermaine talked about the conspircy, which

if you read the book "The Michael Jackson Trials" it really highlights how Sony railroaded

MJ around Invincible, but also that it started in 1997. They wanted him to deliver a new album

but they knew he wouldn't, so when he compiled BOTDF, and gave it to them, they didn't

really promote it, and then they knew without promotion it would fail, and they could blame

the artist. I remember having to find out about BOTDF on the Internet, and I was like a

13 year old kid at the time. That is unheard of the mainstream media around that time not

to of known an artist as huge as MJ was putting out a new album.

Anyway, back on topic. I don't know if I buy into the Sony conspircy (if that is what Jermaine

is referring to here) as being behind Michael's death. (If there are other conspiracies I'd love to

read them.) However, I do think Michael was a paranoid individual - with just cause. I mean,

so many of the people in his world were fakes and users. It is so sad that a grown man's only

friends are his young children. He was also paranoid likely due to the fact that he wasn't getting

enough sleep. Even with the sleeping medication he was taking, I think it was Dr. Drew or someone talking about how that isn't the same for the mind as going to sleep naturally. Anyway, regardless of if Dr. Drew is right about that, we all now know Michael had problem sleeping for many years, so over-time if you don't sleep, your mind will play tricks on you, and it can make you paranoid and have anxiety. As someone in the mental health field, I believe this played a large part on Michael's mindset, mixed with the stress of the London shows, and have vultures (even his own family) just out for green.

I woke up this morning with a sudden twinge of sadness over Michael. I was reading

a book about him last night published before his passing, and it referred to him in

present tense, and I literally forgot he was gone. Then I hopped on my computer and

listened to the song "This Is It" and it all hit me - that the same Michael who was so alive

performing, is now in a better place.

On an unrelated note, I find it so interesting also how Michael's passing made fans

question their own beliefs as far as what happens when you die. I was out with someone

last night and they remarked to me, "If there is a Heaven, Michael Jackson is doing a concert there." I don't mean to over analyze something silly, but I would hope, he is enjoying himself.

He brought the world so much happiness and to think he'd be in his final resting place..still

working...hmmm...

Anyway sorry for being all over the place. A lot on my mind.

mimi07 said:

a nice pic of the ladies [img:$uid]http://i46.tinypic.com/r7qiaa.jpg[/img:$uid]

Toy looks like Katherine here. I have never thought she looked like her.

I´d love to watch the videos, but my speakers are still not working.

It´s his birthday tomorrow. I would love to believe you are having a blast up there in heaven, Mike. I miss you so much that it hurts.

[Edited 8/28/10 11:49am]

Vanilli said:

suga10 said:

Since you mention about a ghost video, what do you think about the whole death hoax rumors?

I still wonder why Jermaine would say all that he said here.

"Michael was not with us way before he arrived to the airport (Jermaine throws his hands in the hair, and makes this smirk-like face expression"

Then he says: "I mean way before he arrived to the hospital, which led to a conspiracy"

"Its all going to come out". "Its all going to unfold"

"I can't say what it is, but I know, he always felt that his life was going to be taken"

Larry King: "What to do you make of the whole Michael Jackson thing, he is still dead by the way"

Akon

[Edited 8/28/10 11:16am]

First of all, let me just say suga10 - thank you for posting these fascinating links. While I personally believe Michael passed away, 1% of me wants to hold out hope he faked his

death. The thing with Jermaine..the expression sure looked like "Ooops" but then again,

it might have been an honest goof. To his credit, Jermaine talked about the conspircy, which

if you read the book "The Michael Jackson Trials" it really highlights how Sony railroaded

MJ around Invincible, but also that it started in 1997. They wanted him to deliver a new album

but they knew he wouldn't, so when he compiled BOTDF, and gave it to them, they didn't

really promote it, and then they knew without promotion it would fail, and they could blame

the artist. I remember having to find out about BOTDF on the Internet, and I was like a

13 year old kid at the time. That is unheard of the mainstream media around that time not

to of known an artist as huge as MJ was putting out a new album.

Anyway, back on topic. I don't know if I buy into the Sony conspircy (if that is what Jermaine

is referring to here) as being behind Michael's death. (If there are other conspiracies I'd love to

read them.) However, I do think Michael was a paranoid individual - with just cause. I mean,

so many of the people in his world were fakes and users. It is so sad that a grown man's only

friends are his young children. He was also paranoid likely due to the fact that he wasn't getting

enough sleep. Even with the sleeping medication he was taking, I think it was Dr. Drew or someone talking about how that isn't the same for the mind as going to sleep naturally. Anyway, regardless of if Dr. Drew is right about that, we all now know Michael had problem sleeping for many years, so over-time if you don't sleep, your mind will play tricks on you, and it can make you paranoid and have anxiety. As someone in the mental health field, I believe this played a large part on Michael's mindset, mixed with the stress of the London shows, and have vultures (even his own family) just out for green.

I woke up this morning with a sudden twinge of sadness over Michael. I was reading

a book about him last night published before his passing, and it referred to him in

present tense, and I literally forgot he was gone. Then I hopped on my computer and

listened to the song "This Is It" and it all hit me - that the same Michael who was so alive

performing, is now in a better place.

On an unrelated note, I find it so interesting also how Michael's passing made fans

question their own beliefs as far as what happens when you die. I was out with someone

last night and they remarked to me, "If there is a Heaven, Michael Jackson is doing a concert there." I don't mean to over analyze something silly, but I would hope, he is enjoying himself.

He brought the world so much happiness and to think he'd be in his final resting place..still

working...hmmm...

Anyway sorry for being all over the place. A lot on my mind.

Thanks for not critcizing what I'm say. I'm not saying that in the sense that I can't accept the fact that Michael is gone. I just think there is so much that doesn't add up regarding the circumstances from his death.

There are just so many things I've been reading regarding about the death, and there is more which points to him being alive instead of dead. I could post so much more here, but why? Its pointless, because people don't believe that there's a possibility that he might have faked his death- they are hell bent on accepting that he's really dead, without doing their own research and reading more information.

And remember what Michael told us- you should not believe you read and hear in the media.

And by the ways- look at how happy Rebbie, Katherine and Joe look.

And like what Joe said before- "Murray is just the fall guy in all of this"

And please look at this picture from that video, and the poster the Jackson family bodyguard place in the black SUV.

[img:$uid]http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/download/file.php?id=9434[/img:$uid]

[Edited 8/28/10 12:59pm]

[Edited 8/28/10 13:03pm]

[Edited 8/28/10 13:04pm]

suga10 said:

Thanks for not critcizing what I'm say. I'm not saying that in the sense that I can't accept the fact that Michael is gone. I just think there is so much that doesn't add up regarding the circumstances from his death.

There are just so many things I've been reading regarding about the death, and there is more which points to him being alive instead of dead. I could post so much more here, but why? Its pointless, because people don't believe that there's a possibility that he might have faked his death- they are hell bent on accepting that he's really dead, without doing their own research and reading more information.

And remember what Michael told us- you should not believe you read and hear in the media.

And by the ways- look at how happy Katherine and Joe look.

And like what Joe said before- "Murray is just the fall guy" Well perhaps Murrays behind is behind the big coverup, that's why nothing is happening to him at all

[Edited 8/28/10 12:51pm]

[Edited 8/28/10 12:57pm]

What other stuff is there that doesn't add up?

I'm willing to entertain the idea or at least tolerate reading conspiricies. (If nothing

else, they are interesting.) My thing is..I think they lose a lot of people when people

start posting things like, "The Michael Jackson at the o2 press conference wasn't

Michael. I'm sorry but I've been a fan since I was like 8, seen the man in person,

have had posters of him covering my walls since I was 8, and damnit it WAS him.)

With that being said...let the conspiracy talk begin. Or at least post some of the big

stuff so I can read it and the other orgers can make fun of me for being curious.

On an unrelated note, this is the kind of conversation Michael's passing inspired me to

have with people older then me.

...and believe it or not, a lot of people don't care to talk about dying all that much.

Vanilli said:

suga10 said:

Thanks for not critcizing what I'm say. I'm not saying that in the sense that I can't accept the fact that Michael is gone. I just think there is so much that doesn't add up regarding the circumstances from his death.

There are just so many things I've been reading regarding about the death, and there is more which points to him being alive instead of dead. I could post so much more here, but why? Its pointless, because people don't believe that there's a possibility that he might have faked his death- they are hell bent on accepting that he's really dead, without doing their own research and reading more information.

And remember what Michael told us- you should not believe you read and hear in the media.

And by the ways- look at how happy Katherine and Joe look.

And like what Joe said before- "Murray is just the fall guy" Well perhaps Murrays behind is behind the big coverup, that's why nothing is happening to him at all

[Edited 8/28/10 12:51pm]

[Edited 8/28/10 12:57pm]

What other stuff is there that doesn't add up?

I'm willing to entertain the idea or at least tolerate reading conspiricies. (If nothing

else, they are interesting.) My thing is..I think they lose a lot of people when people

start posting things like, "The Michael Jackson at the o2 press conference wasn't

Michael. I'm sorry but I've been a fan since I was like 8, seen the man in person,

have had posters of him covering my walls since I was 8, and damnit it WAS him.)

With that being said...let the conspiracy talk begin. Or at least post some of the big

stuff so I can read it and the other orgers can make fun of me for being curious.

On an unrelated note, this is the kind of conversation Michael's passing inspired me to

have with people older then me.

...and believe it or not, a lot of people don't care to talk about dying all that much.

Obviously not things like- "It wasn't Michael at the O2" More on the lines of real research which is convincing.

Not all that crazy ass stuff like Michael and Elvis are hanging out together in an island. That's just BS. LOL.

Now here's something that is funny.

Conrad Robert Murray- if you rearrange the words, it spells out the film:

Murder by Contract (1958)

And we all know that Michael was indeed born in the year 1958. Now is that really a coincidence? I doubt it.

Dr Conrad Murray= Dr Hibbert from the Simpsons

[img:$uid]http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6010/conradmurraysimpsons.png[/img:$uid]

Dr Conrad Murray's wife is Blanche from the first marriage

Dr Hibberts wife is Bernice in the Simpsons

Dr Hibbert is 50 years old always

Dr Conrad Murray is 50 (At the time of death)

TMZ originally posted this photo for one of their articles, they then took the picture down, and replaced the photo with this

Dr Hibert on the Simpsons

These aren't the same people folks

[img:$uid]http://ll-media.tmz.com/2010/08/25/0825-joe-conrad-ex-tmz-01.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://ll-media.tmz.com/2010/08/25/0825-joe-conrad-ex-tmz-02.jpg[/img:$uid]

[Edited 8/28/10 13:35pm]

[Edited 8/28/10 13:38pm]

[Edited 8/28/10 13:41pm]

[Edited 8/28/10 13:45pm]