MOL said:

bboy87 said:

covers eyes to avoid looking at Friedman

Boo Hoo! Friedman says bad things about the Jackson! He bears their butt naked. Meanie Friedman!

Joe is just a victim! Cruel society!

Umm.... I was just stating the fact that the man's face looks like a raw egg hanging on a wire hanger.....

Timmy84 said:

suga10 said:

Wasn't it Dr Tohme who signed the contract on behalf of Michael. Is that why Michael fired him right after the This is It tour announcement?

No.

But this Dr. Tohme character creeped him out. How true is that?

angel345 said:

Timmy84 said:

No.

But this Dr. Tohme character creeped him out. How true is that?

Michael fired him before he agreed to the concerts. I think he figured the guy was a loony that was trying to get him to do things that would hamper him. Once he realized his deal with that auction, he told his ass to get to stepping. That was right around March '09 I think.

[Edited 8/25/10 14:41pm]

Marrk said:

On a positive tip, i've bought every new official release since he left us.

This Is it. CD/DVD

The Stripped Mixes.

Unreleased Masters.

Hello World.

Live At The Forum.

I miss him a lot.

He was so great on 'Live At The Forum' i was surprised just how good he was, perhaps i shouldn't have been. The J5 were a class act. If you've any passing interest in MJ, you owe it to yourself to beg, borrow or steal this album. Preferably buy it though!. It's great to hear little Mike giving it loads of "Shake Your Money Maker!" on the cover of JB's 'There Was A Time' and the Sly cover fucking smokes too.

Awesome artist ALL his career.

I was thinking of doing a book/guide of all his albums, planning on listening to each album by in the order they were released. The Jackson 5 era was so energetic and full of hidden gems. If anyone doubts the man's talents and say he was just a singer and dancer, they should literally shut the fuck up and go through his entire catalog

bboy87 said:

MOL said:

Boo Hoo! Friedman says bad things about the Jackson! He bears their butt naked. Meanie Friedman!

Joe is just a victim! Cruel society!

Umm.... I was just stating the fact that the man's face looks like a raw egg hanging on a wire hanger.....

That dude's face look like it was put in the grinder. I wouldn't want to see him in a picture with Rowe and Joe together. All three look like raw eggs.

Timmy84 said:

angel345 said:

But this Dr. Tohme character creeped him out. How true is that?

Michael fired him before he agreed to the concerts.

Tohme was at the O2 announcement, and was there shoving Michael up on that stage.

suga10 said:

Timmy84 said:

Michael fired him before he agreed to the concerts.

Tohme was at the O2 announcement, and was there shoving Michael up on that stage.

Yeah Tohme had a hand up his ass, yeah right.

Then how come he was gone by the end? Like I said, Tohme was gone in March, the same month of the press conference.

Please, now you're gonna say Tohme pushed him to do it?

Timmy84 said:

angel345 said:

But this Dr. Tohme character creeped him out. How true is that?

Michael fired him before he agreed to the concerts. I think he figured the guy was a loony that was trying to get him to do things that would hamper him. Once he realized his deal with that auction, he told his ass to get to stepping. That was right around March '09 I think.

[Edited 8/25/10 14:41pm]

I see

Maybe I'm just in a bad mood or something but something I'm tired of seeing is people who think Michael was some kind of pushover. Uh no. This guy just had trust issues with people. Once he found out (almost too late in some degrees) that they were scum he got rid of them. Like Michael was some drug addicted loony that was being pushed to do these shows and then died when he wanted to not do them, which is also rumors and heresay. I don't put no faith in what his family says (as someone tried to say I did lol) nor do one or two fans' accounts. And they're gonna say "well I didn't wanna tell them yet because Michael didn't want it leaked" or whatever. Well they betrayed that trust then. I wouldn't even compared him to Elvis at this point though both guys died because their doctors broke their oaths.

Wow, it's going to get really messy

Somebody here'd better have very, very many pictures up his sleeve. Better wallpapers.

angel345 said:

Timmy84 said:

Michael fired him before he agreed to the concerts. I think he figured the guy was a loony that was trying to get him to do things that would hamper him. Once he realized his deal with that auction, he told his ass to get to stepping. That was right around March '09 I think.

[Edited 8/25/10 14:41pm]

I see

He was gone right around the time Michael announced his concerts. I think the press conference in London was one of the last times we saw him with Tohme. It could've been in April or whatever but he was gone before Michael died.

greatpink said:

Wow, it's going to get really messy

Somebody here'd better have very, very many pictures up his sleeve. Better wallpapers.

Don't worry, someone's gonna post pictures and audio. I'm just tired of the excuses here.

bboy87 said:

Marrk said:

On a positive tip, i've bought every new official release since he left us.

This Is it. CD/DVD

The Stripped Mixes.

Unreleased Masters.

Hello World.

Live At The Forum.

I miss him a lot.

He was so great on 'Live At The Forum' i was surprised just how good he was, perhaps i shouldn't have been. The J5 were a class act. If you've any passing interest in MJ, you owe it to yourself to beg, borrow or steal this album. Preferably buy it though!. It's great to hear little Mike giving it loads of "Shake Your Money Maker!" on the cover of JB's 'There Was A Time' and the Sly cover fucking smokes too.

Awesome artist ALL his career.

I was thinking of doing a book/guide of all his albums, planning on listening to each album by in the order they were released. The Jackson 5 era was so energetic and full of hidden gems. If anyone doubts the man's talents and say he was just a singer and dancer, they should literally shut the fuck up and go through his entire catalog

Pretty much. Glad you highlighted that part BTW. I was making a point.

Sometimes less is more, but there definately is a massive amount of greatness and he ascends/get greater all the way through. There's not much crap in his catalogue. I hope he was proud of his career. I know he was happy and felt loved in the end. He commented like he was shocked to someone before he passed on TII (who's name escapes me) "A million tickets!?"

To me he was just a wonderful blessing. Love the man.

Marrk said:

bboy87 said:

I was thinking of doing a book/guide of all his albums, planning on listening to each album by in the order they were released. The Jackson 5 era was so energetic and full of hidden gems. If anyone doubts the man's talents and say he was just a singer and dancer, they should literally shut the fuck up and go through his entire catalog

Pretty much. Glad you highlighted that part BTW. I was making a point.

Sometimes less is more, but there definately is a massive amount of greatness and he ascends/get greater all the way through. There's not much crap in his catalogue. I hope he was proud of his career. I know he was happy and felt loved in the end. He commented like he was shocked to someone before he passed on TII (who's name escapes me) "A million tickets!?"

To me he was just a wonderful blessing. Love the man.

See this was why when he passed on, I didn't think "what a tragedy", I actually thought "what a great life". For him to come through what he went through and to achieve what he did, he didn't leave this world bitter unlike what some fans are trying to say. I'm just tired. The LAST thing Michael wanted was to be treated like a victim. I'm sick and tired of it. I don't know about you or bboy or whoever, but personally I'm tired of it. Trying to celebrate Michael while some people wanna speculate. It's as bad as seeing Michael on a tabloid with people thinking he cut his nose.

[Edited 8/25/10 14:54pm]

Timmy84 said:

suga10 said:

Tohme was at the O2 announcement, and was there shoving Michael up on that stage.

Yeah Tohme had a hand up his ass, yeah right.

Then how come he was gone by the end? Like I said, Tohme was gone in March, the same month of the press conference.

Please, now you're gonna say Tohme pushed him to do it?

Probably the reason Mike was walking out of the bus looking pissed. He's probably get the hell out of here. I fired you.

suga10 said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah Tohme had a hand up his ass, yeah right.

Then how come he was gone by the end? Like I said, Tohme was gone in March, the same month of the press conference.

Please, now you're gonna say Tohme pushed him to do it?

Probably the reason Mike was walking out of the bus looking pissed. He's probably get the hell out of here. I fired you.

Well Michael sure didn't get pushed on the stage, that's for damn sure.

MOL said:

I couldn't care less about what some TINI fans write. At the end of the day, those people are no different than the ones who claim they had sex with Michael (there are MANY who write DETAILED stories about supposed sex encounters). Are they credible? Does this means Michael was retarted and didn't know what in the blue hell he was signing (here's one of the reasons as to why Rowe, Oxman and Joe have to use the druggie rumors)? Does this mean Michael's people are all a bunch of illetrates who didn't know what was written in the contract? Why, exactly, would AEG, an enormously rich company, deceive Michael?

Look Militant and Suga: it's legally forbidden to simply add more shows without the client's consent. Michael would have to sign a contract in which AEG would propose more shows. Otherwise, there is NO way AEG would simply add more 40 shows. NO WAY. In planet Earth that is not only legally forbidden but also impossible. AEG would never taint its image by adding more shows since it could result in a lawsuit againt it.

WAKE UP TO THE REAL, FUNCTIONAL WORLD: In Michael's contract the number 10 doesn't even appear. It reads (and I'm going to repeat it again): "The client agrees to perform in 31 or more shows.". Michael signed a contract knowing full well he was agreeing to perform 31 or more shows. NOWHERE, in the contract, the number 10 appears. Michael was a shrewd business not some retarded.

Legally forbidden? Not the point. You clearly aren't in the music business. I am, and at various times I've been signed to Sony, EMI and Universal and worked with event organisations like Live Nation who are bigger than AEG. I know how this shit works with these corporations, and YES I've done tours where I've never personally signed jackshit, my management and production company have signed on my behalf.

So the contract said "31 or more shows? You're essentially saying that AEG could have said "Hey Michael, we've booked you to perform 500 shows" and he'd have to do it. I don't see Michael agreeing to that, I don't think he agreed to do 50 shows, I don't think there was any way in hell he would have done 50 shows and I think he knew that, AND I don't think the fans were lying about what he said either.

I want to see this contract. Upload a scan of it or link me to where you got it from, because it sounds fraudulent as hell to me. Never in my entire life of being in this business have I seen anything like that.

Your statement is contradictory in itself. If AEG could not add more shows without his consent, then there would be a SPECIFIC number on the contract, not "31 or more" which means they COULD add more without his consent. "or more" could mean anything, it's completely vague and if Michael did 10 shows then stopped, and AEG tried to sue him, wording on the contract like "or more" would get LAUGHED OUT OF COURT. So which is it?

Seriously, get your story straight and show me this contract.

It's too easy to paint Joe Jackson as the bad guy when the whole world hates him anyway. Fact is, AEG have acted shadily this whole time, every fan on this board except you would say that there's something going on that they aren't telling us and that they pressured Michael and potentially took advantage of him or misled him, and those are valid feelings. Michael HIMSELF said he only wanted to do ten shows, and now you're saying that didn't happen, the fans are lying, people on this forum saw a YouTube video of him saying it, you're saying they're lying, and you're saying it's all part of Joe's conspiracy to get money. Right.

Listen, I don't doubt Joe and Rowe wanted a piece of the action. Nobody would doubt that. But stop playing the role of AEG apologist. They are not innocent in this, and it seems like you're the only person who thinks that they are.

Michael could come back as a freakin' ghost and tell the world that he holds AEG responsible for his death and you'd find a way to say it was bullshit and actually we should blame Joe Jackson.

Timmy84 said:

angel345 said:

I see

He was gone right around the time Michael announced his concerts. I think the press conference in London was one of the last times we saw him with Tohme. It could've been in April or whatever but he was gone before Michael died.

Gotta say it made me uncomfortable hearing Michael fearing Tohme on that video. Don't know how genuine it was cause Mike had a flair for drama but it wouldn't surprise me if this guy who skimmed millions off Michael, then returned it when cornered was in the mix when it comes to his death. Shady motherfucker.

Marrk said:

Timmy84 said:

He was gone right around the time Michael announced his concerts. I think the press conference in London was one of the last times we saw him with Tohme. It could've been in April or whatever but he was gone before Michael died.

Gotta say it made me uncomfortable hearing Michael fearing Tohme on that video. Don't know how genuine it was cause Mike had a flair for drama but it wouldn't surprise me if this guy who skimmed millions off Michael, then returned it when cornered was in the mix when it comes to his death. Shady motherfucker.

I think someone who was close to him (that didn't rat on him) said "check on your man Tohme." Michael then had people investigate and when he found out, he did to him what he did to others who he thought had screwed him. Tohme actually vanished after July 2009. I don't think no one knows what he's doing. And since then Frank DiLeo has said he was the one who was managing Michael before Michael passed on.

Timmy84 said:

Maybe I'm just in a bad mood or something but something I'm tired of seeing is people who think Michael was some kind of pushover. Uh no. This guy just had trust issues with people. Once he found out (almost too late in some degrees) that they were scum he got rid of them. Like Michael was some drug addicted loony that was being pushed to do these shows and then died when he wanted to not do them, which is also rumors and heresay. I don't put no faith in what his family says (as someone tried to say I did lol) nor do one or two fans' accounts. And they're gonna say "well I didn't wanna tell them yet because Michael didn't want it leaked" or whatever. Well they betrayed that trust then. I wouldn't even compared him to Elvis at this point though both guys died because their doctors broke their oaths.

As I said earlier, certain people that were close to him said his persona is different than his public image, to my understanding. If he was a pushover, he would not have lasted this long in the music business. It's a very cutthroat business, and MJ knew it.

Militant said:

MOL said:

I couldn't care less about what some TINI fans write. At the end of the day, those people are no different than the ones who claim they had sex with Michael (there are MANY who write DETAILED stories about supposed sex encounters). Are they credible? Does this means Michael was retarted and didn't know what in the blue hell he was signing (here's one of the reasons as to why Rowe, Oxman and Joe have to use the druggie rumors)? Does this mean Michael's people are all a bunch of illetrates who didn't know what was written in the contract? Why, exactly, would AEG, an enormously rich company, deceive Michael?

Look Militant and Suga: it's legally forbidden to simply add more shows without the client's consent. Michael would have to sign a contract in which AEG would propose more shows. Otherwise, there is NO way AEG would simply add more 40 shows. NO WAY. In planet Earth that is not only legally forbidden but also impossible. AEG would never taint its image by adding more shows since it could result in a lawsuit againt it.

WAKE UP TO THE REAL, FUNCTIONAL WORLD: In Michael's contract the number 10 doesn't even appear. It reads (and I'm going to repeat it again): "The client agrees to perform in 31 or more shows.". Michael signed a contract knowing full well he was agreeing to perform 31 or more shows. NOWHERE, in the contract, the number 10 appears. Michael was a shrewd business not some retarded.

Legally forbidden? Not the point. You clearly aren't in the music business. I am, and at various times I've been signed to Sony, EMI and Universal and worked with event organisations like Live Nation who are bigger than AEG. I know how this shit works with these corporations, and YES I've done tours where I've never personally signed jackshit, my management and production company have signed on my behalf.

So the contract said "31 or more shows? You're essentially saying that AEG could have said "Hey Michael, we've booked you to perform 500 shows" and he'd have to do it. I don't see Michael agreeing to that, I don't think he agreed to do 50 shows, I don't think there was any way in hell he would have done 50 shows and I think he knew that, AND I don't think the fans were lying about what he said either.

I want to see this contract. Upload a scan of it or link me to where you got it from, because it sounds fraudulent as hell to me. Never in my entire life of being in this business have I seen anything like that.

Your statement is contradictory in itself. If AEG could not add more shows without his consent, then there would be a SPECIFIC number on the contract, not "31 or more" which means they COULD add more without his consent. "or more" could mean anything, it's completely vague and if Michael did 10 shows then stopped, and AEG tried to sue him, wording on the contract like "or more" would get LAUGHED OUT OF COURT. So which is it?

Seriously, get your story straight and show me this contract.

It's too easy to paint Joe Jackson as the bad guy when the whole world hates him anyway. Fact is, AEG have acted shadily this whole time, every fan on this board except you would say that there's something going on that they aren't telling us and that they pressured Michael and potentially took advantage of him or misled him, and those are valid feelings. Michael HIMSELF said he only wanted to do ten shows, and now you're saying that didn't happen, the fans are lying, people on this forum saw a YouTube video of him saying it, you're saying they're lying, and you're saying it's all part of Joe's conspiracy to get money. Right.

Listen, I don't doubt Joe and Rowe wanted a piece of the action. Nobody would doubt that. But stop playing the role of AEG apologist. They are not innocent in this, and it seems like you're the only person who thinks that they are.

Michael could come back as a freakin' ghost and tell the world that he holds AEG responsible for his death and you'd find a way to say it was bullshit and actually we should blame Joe Jackson.

If Michael came back as a ghost, he'd probably go and find Tom Sneddon

Timmy84 said:

Marrk said:

Pretty much. Glad you highlighted that part BTW. I was making a point.

Sometimes less is more, but there definately is a massive amount of greatness and he ascends/get greater all the way through. There's not much crap in his catalogue. I hope he was proud of his career. I know he was happy and felt loved in the end. He commented like he was shocked to someone before he passed on TII (who's name escapes me) "A million tickets!?"

To me he was just a wonderful blessing. Love the man.

See this was why when he passed on, I didn't think "what a tragedy", I actually thought "what a great life". For him to come through what he went through and to achieve what he did, he didn't leave this world bitter unlike what some fans are trying to say. I'm just tired. The LAST thing Michael wanted was to be treated like a victim. I'm sick and tired of it. I don't know about you or bboy or whoever, but personally I'm tired of it. Trying to celebrate Michael while some people wanna speculate. It's as bad as seeing Michael on a tabloid with people thinking he cut his nose.

[Edited 8/25/10 14:54pm]

I agree. Though my previous post look like it contradicts it!

It was a great life no doubt, but Mike shouldn't have/didn't deserve to have gone out like that.

angel345 said:

Timmy84 said:

Maybe I'm just in a bad mood or something but something I'm tired of seeing is people who think Michael was some kind of pushover. Uh no. This guy just had trust issues with people. Once he found out (almost too late in some degrees) that they were scum he got rid of them. Like Michael was some drug addicted loony that was being pushed to do these shows and then died when he wanted to not do them, which is also rumors and heresay. I don't put no faith in what his family says (as someone tried to say I did lol) nor do one or two fans' accounts. And they're gonna say "well I didn't wanna tell them yet because Michael didn't want it leaked" or whatever. Well they betrayed that trust then. I wouldn't even compared him to Elvis at this point though both guys died because their doctors broke their oaths.

As I said earlier, certain people that were close to him said his persona is different than his public image, to my understanding. If he was a pushover, he would not have lasted this long in the music business. It's a very cutthroat business, and MJ knew it.

And that's why I don't believe he was ever PUSHED to do the o2 concerts. No fucking way. Not a guy who knew the ins and outs of the business for 43 years. The guy had more experience and dealt with business at one point better than his father ever could. Michael still didn't trust his dad just like he wouldn't trust others.

Marrk said:

Timmy84 said:

See this was why when he passed on, I didn't think "what a tragedy", I actually thought "what a great life". For him to come through what he went through and to achieve what he did, he didn't leave this world bitter unlike what some fans are trying to say. I'm just tired. The LAST thing Michael wanted was to be treated like a victim. I'm sick and tired of it. I don't know about you or bboy or whoever, but personally I'm tired of it. Trying to celebrate Michael while some people wanna speculate. It's as bad as seeing Michael on a tabloid with people thinking he cut his nose.

[Edited 8/25/10 14:54pm]

I agree. Though my previous post look like it contradicts it!

It was a great life no doubt, but Mike shouldn't have/didn't deserve to have gone out like that.

Nah it don't contradict, you actually brought up a good point about that asshole Tohme but yeah he didn't deserve to go out like that. You're right.

bboy87 said:

Militant said:

Legally forbidden? Not the point. You clearly aren't in the music business. I am, and at various times I've been signed to Sony, EMI and Universal and worked with event organisations like Live Nation who are bigger than AEG. I know how this shit works with these corporations, and YES I've done tours where I've never personally signed jackshit, my management and production company have signed on my behalf.

So the contract said "31 or more shows? You're essentially saying that AEG could have said "Hey Michael, we've booked you to perform 500 shows" and he'd have to do it. I don't see Michael agreeing to that, I don't think he agreed to do 50 shows, I don't think there was any way in hell he would have done 50 shows and I think he knew that, AND I don't think the fans were lying about what he said either.

I want to see this contract. Upload a scan of it or link me to where you got it from, because it sounds fraudulent as hell to me. Never in my entire life of being in this business have I seen anything like that.

Your statement is contradictory in itself. If AEG could not add more shows without his consent, then there would be a SPECIFIC number on the contract, not "31 or more" which means they COULD add more without his consent. "or more" could mean anything, it's completely vague and if Michael did 10 shows then stopped, and AEG tried to sue him, wording on the contract like "or more" would get LAUGHED OUT OF COURT. So which is it?

Seriously, get your story straight and show me this contract.

It's too easy to paint Joe Jackson as the bad guy when the whole world hates him anyway. Fact is, AEG have acted shadily this whole time, every fan on this board except you would say that there's something going on that they aren't telling us and that they pressured Michael and potentially took advantage of him or misled him, and those are valid feelings. Michael HIMSELF said he only wanted to do ten shows, and now you're saying that didn't happen, the fans are lying, people on this forum saw a YouTube video of him saying it, you're saying they're lying, and you're saying it's all part of Joe's conspiracy to get money. Right.

Listen, I don't doubt Joe and Rowe wanted a piece of the action. Nobody would doubt that. But stop playing the role of AEG apologist. They are not innocent in this, and it seems like you're the only person who thinks that they are.

Michael could come back as a freakin' ghost and tell the world that he holds AEG responsible for his death and you'd find a way to say it was bullshit and actually we should blame Joe Jackson.

If Michael came back as a ghost, he'd probably go and find Tom Sneddon

Exactly!

bboy87 said:

Militant said:

Legally forbidden? Not the point. You clearly aren't in the music business. I am, and at various times I've been signed to Sony, EMI and Universal and worked with event organisations like Live Nation who are bigger than AEG. I know how this shit works with these corporations, and YES I've done tours where I've never personally signed jackshit, my management and production company have signed on my behalf.

So the contract said "31 or more shows? You're essentially saying that AEG could have said "Hey Michael, we've booked you to perform 500 shows" and he'd have to do it. I don't see Michael agreeing to that, I don't think he agreed to do 50 shows, I don't think there was any way in hell he would have done 50 shows and I think he knew that, AND I don't think the fans were lying about what he said either.

I want to see this contract. Upload a scan of it or link me to where you got it from, because it sounds fraudulent as hell to me. Never in my entire life of being in this business have I seen anything like that.

Your statement is contradictory in itself. If AEG could not add more shows without his consent, then there would be a SPECIFIC number on the contract, not "31 or more" which means they COULD add more without his consent. "or more" could mean anything, it's completely vague and if Michael did 10 shows then stopped, and AEG tried to sue him, wording on the contract like "or more" would get LAUGHED OUT OF COURT. So which is it?

Seriously, get your story straight and show me this contract.

It's too easy to paint Joe Jackson as the bad guy when the whole world hates him anyway. Fact is, AEG have acted shadily this whole time, every fan on this board except you would say that there's something going on that they aren't telling us and that they pressured Michael and potentially took advantage of him or misled him, and those are valid feelings. Michael HIMSELF said he only wanted to do ten shows, and now you're saying that didn't happen, the fans are lying, people on this forum saw a YouTube video of him saying it, you're saying they're lying, and you're saying it's all part of Joe's conspiracy to get money. Right.

Listen, I don't doubt Joe and Rowe wanted a piece of the action. Nobody would doubt that. But stop playing the role of AEG apologist. They are not innocent in this, and it seems like you're the only person who thinks that they are.

Michael could come back as a freakin' ghost and tell the world that he holds AEG responsible for his death and you'd find a way to say it was bullshit and actually we should blame Joe Jackson.

If Michael came back as a ghost, he'd probably go and find Tom Sneddon

Timmy84 said:

greatpink said:

Wow, it's going to get really messy

Somebody here'd better have very, very many pictures up his sleeve. Better wallpapers.

Don't worry, someone's gonna post pictures and audio. I'm just tired of the excuses here.

I love you and you know it (don't you?) - and this is just a suggestion:

people fighting here right now are those who still CARE - very much. And there are not so very many of them left as one might think.

(So do I, inspite of all my... errr... "faults" )

Michael is going to become 52 soon... and there is a thousand different ways to cope with a loss

Sometimes I think Michael faked his death to get out of his concerts and go to rehab- that's why nothing is happening to Murray, and Joe Jackson was laughing his ass of on June 27 with Reverand Jesse Jackson

And Harvey Levin would never take a risk to post this photo on TMZ ever, if he didn't know shit was up

[img:$uid]http://ll-media.tmz.com/2010/04/10/photo-credit-2.jpg[/img:$uid]

greatpink said:

Timmy84 said:

Don't worry, someone's gonna post pictures and audio. I'm just tired of the excuses here.

I love you and you know it (don't you?) - and this is just a suggestion:

people fighting here right now are those who still CARE - very much. And there are not so very many of them left as one might think.

(So do I, inspite of all my... errr... "faults" )

Michael is going to become 52 soon... and there is a thousand different ways to cope with a loss

Hey I care too...

And I know everybody has different opinions but damn man it's like who let the rain in the parade?

MOL said:

suga10 said:

So Why are Karen Faye and Michael Bush speaking out that Michael wasn't ready? These people know more about what was happening behind the scenes. They have been near Michael for a long time.

Michael has not performed that many shows in a long time in front of people- he has went through tramautical experiences in his life. He was the not the same Michael from the Dangerous Era, History Era, and Bad Era. He went through a physically and emotionally draining trial which took out the energy from him, and he was still recovering these recent years from that. His priorities changed in recent year. It was not touring, it was about recovering from that crazy trial he went through and getting his life back on track. In addition he was 50 years old- he was not a young man at all.

It is not easy to go through 50 shows after years of not performing.

Even Leonard Rowe stated that that Michael told him how they screwed up the scheduling of the shows.

He was fearful about being judged again by the media. I think there was so much pressure on him.

[Edited 8/25/10 9:41am]

[Edited 8/25/10 9:42am]

Don't believe a word Leonard Rowe says. Michael told him NOTHING other than "I want nothing to do with you". Leonard is a known extortionist famous for extorting artists in the 70's and, more recently, Ne yo and R.Kelly. Him and Joe Jackson hounded and harassed Michael endlessly to put their hands on the 02 concerts pie. They were also badgering Michael in order to make him sign a contract for some concerts in Texas. When Leonard Rowe realized he wasn't in AEG's payroll, him and Joe came up with the whole "he was weak, frail and uncapable" thing. Funny thing: the day after Rowe and Joe met with Michael and he told them to get lost, pejorative rumors about TII and Michael's health (deliberatedly leaked by those two) started appearing in the media. The minute Rowe and Joe saw the TII announcement they were in cahoots. Why? Because they smelled money and wanted to put their dirty fingers in it. The first strategy those two came up with consisted in worming their way into AEG's payroll. They badgered Michael. They hunted and hounded him to no end. Then they had a meeting with him. He, due being hunted and harassed by Joe, signed a contract which allowed Rowe to be his financial advisor for the tour. A day later, Michael fired him. That's when Rowe and Joe invented another strategy to make money off of AEG: invent they mistreated Michael and then create a lawsuit against them hoping to get a payday. Then the two realized they wouldn't go far so, in early June, both sued Michael claiming "breach of contract".

Then Michael dies due to medical negligence on Murray's behalf. That's when Leonard and Joe take advantage of this. They used Michael's death to make it seem as if this was a consequence of mistreatment by AEG. The only way they have to give credibility to the story is by claiming MJ was a drug addict. This is entirely made with one goal in mind: sueing AEG to get an enormous payday. The plan was put in practice.

Leonard Rowe is a crook. A former convicted extortionist with whom NO ONE wants to work with due to obvious reasons (of course he justifies it using the race card). Michael didn't tell him anything. Rowe invented Michael told him that in order to make AEG look bad, to try to get points to his cause. The only person who could say "no, I didn't say that" is death, so Rowe, with no one to prove the opposite, invents Michael told him this and that. He invents Michael told him things that suits his cause.

Guess what? From Dileo to the nurse, everyone confirmed Michael saw Rowe as a leech and a vulture. He DID NOT told that to Rowe. Rowe invented Michael had told him that. Why? Because no one can legally prove he didn't (the only person who could is now death) and because it suits his argument.

Of course Rowe claims Michael was unhealthy, druggie and blah blah blah...because he wants an argument with which he can sue AEG and make money!!! If Michael was so weak, why was he hounding MJ to do concerts in Texas? Michael became "weak and frail" the moment Joe and Rowe realized he was not going to line their pockets. If Michael was so "unheatlhy" why were Joe and Rowe doing everything possible be in the 02 deal? As soon as those two realized they wouldn't be getting money off of AEG directly, they changed their strategy: invent Michael was weak and unhealthy. Then Michael dies due PURELY of medical negligence and they take advantage of that in order to put the second strategy in practice which is to claim that Michael died because he was "weak and unhealthy and a druggie" and AEG pushed him. They claim Murray is just the fall guy so they can go after AEG (the ones with the money). Their plan is to make it seem as if AEG is the reason as to why Michael died so they can sue it and GET A PAYDAY.

It's also known that Rowe and Joe hate AEG because it protected Michael from their constant houndings. With that said: EVERYTHING Rowe says is pure invented garbage with the purpose of it suiting his cause. It's obvious that he said that Michael told him that. He wants to make AEG look bad, as if they were responsible for Michael's death. So he invents that Michael (who is no longer here so no one can legally contest the validity of Rowe's claims) told him this and that- all things that suit Rowe's argument. Michael asked AEG to protect him from him and Poppa Joe...so why would he tell him anything about his feelings, in the first place?

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So why was Faye so excited about TII, before Michael's death? Why was she constantly hailing the tour as some kind of God's gift to the world? Then, as soon as she is seen with Randy, Faye changes her tune.

Why are Michael's dancers, bodyguards , Branca, McClain, DiLeo, Meserau, Cherilyn, the cook...EVERYBODY WHO HAD CONTACT WITH MICHAEL claiming he was super excited about the shows? Michael was excited about the shows but Joe and his pals want to make it seem as if he was pissed at AEG. As soon as they realized there was no money for them, Michael suddenly became a "pissed and weak drug addict". Obviously, this is entirely invented to make AEG look bad...you know, working for the lawsuit.

Michael wans't retarded. He KNEW what he was doing. AEG wanted Michael to do 85 shows but he refused. So, if AEG is so bad and forced Michael to do this and that, why didn't they force him to do 35 more shows? Why did he refuse to do 85 shows but was then forced to do 50? Answer: Michael wasn't forced to do ANYTHING. He even wanted to continue the tour in Japan. Just read what his cook, his bodyguards and Dileo said. EVERYONE near Michael confirmed the "weak and frail" arguments are just crap. Crap invented by some to make MONEY and get revenge out of not being included in the business.

If Michael was so weak why was his entire family hounding him to do a reunion show? Every single one of his bodyguards have confirmed that the family wanted desperately to do a reunion tour with him. Mike de la Purré even said that the Jacksons badgered Michael to no end for the tour. Tito, in January of 2009, was everywhere claiming Michael would be touring with the family. He hailed his brother as "stronger than ever". After the TII announcement (and after realizing the brothers had NOT been included) he claims that Michael was too weak to do the shows. So, he was strong to line his family members' pockets but he was weak and unhealthy to do solo tours? Weird.

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Exactly. He was trying to get his life back on track and touring and coming back in a glorious way was a part of it. That's when he decided to do TII. You're giving me the reason. Thank you very much!!!

Blah blah blah it's not easy to do this. I'm telling you: it's way more difficult to have your father and you father's extortionist friends trying to leech off of you. Of course it's not easy. Working is never easy. For anyone! But he was determined to come back and to tour again. You're "it's not easy" argument makes ZERO sense.

I'm sick of "the media pressured him" bullshit. No one pressured him more than Joe and his buddies...for money. As soon as Michael died, they smelled a chance.

[Edited 8/25/10 11:24am]

WALL OF TEXT CRITTICALY HITS YOU FOR 2000000000000000 LIGHTNING DMG....

you die