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With Stevie. | |
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No, they have not. Everything that is said on TMZ is also being said by Oxman and Joe on Radio and TV stations. Suga: don't give them a pass. | |
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[Edited 8/25/10 13:19pm] | |
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I don't have much to say regarding the Leonard Rowe stuff because frankly you know a lot more about it than I do.
But, regarding the whole "Michael being forced by AEG" thing..... Michael himself told more than a few people that he had only agreed to do 10 shows and was mad at AEG for booking 50. He said to this to some of the fans that showed up to meet him at the rehearsal place in LA, and some other people too.
And I saw you mention that Michael didn't need rehab. That's bullshit. He absolutely did. Rehab is not just for people that have physical addictions, it's for psychological addictions/problems as well.
As much as I love Michael, if you think it's OK in any way, shape, or form, to be illegally obtaining materials that are NOT supposed to be used outside of the operating theatre for use as a sleep-aid, you NEED rehab. Propofol ain't a fucking sleeping aid. It's a highly dangerous anaesthetic that even doctors don't use in surgeries unless it is absolutely necessary and they've exhausted other options. Michael needed rehab even if just to get it through his head that that kind of behaviour is NOT ok. They could have cured his insomnia with natural methods and got him on a proper diet and sleep schedule.
Eating KFC every fucking day and drinking as much soda as he was alleged to is gonna mess with anyone's body. Trying to sleep whenever you damn well please ain't gonna work either. Our bodies have cycles, people have sleep patterns and we NEED schedules otherwise our bodies just get confused and don't know when it's time to relax and when it's time to wake up.
I'm an insomniac with a mild caffeine addiction myself, and a vocalist/songwriter, so I know exactly how it is and it's too easy for us to be like this. I feel just like Michael in the sense that I know I'm more creative in the middle of the night. I regularly drink caffeine at like 10pm and at 5am I'm still buzzing and working on music. And sometimes I fall into the same self-medicating trap as Michael as well, except I don't touch any hard chemicals, I just smoke me a fat joint of chronic so that I can sleep
But when you're preparing for a tour, and when you're on tour, you can't do it. I just got back myself from a month long tour with my band and we were rehearsing solidly for 6 weeks prior to it. You need proper sleep cycles and you need to eat properly.
You try and act the same way as I mentioned above and it just doesn't work, you can't get through a rehearsal, you can't give your best performances, and this is obvious to see in "This Is It" - Michael's nowhere near giving it his all, and I've seen him live so I know. And that whole excuse about deliberately not giving it all because it's "just rehearsals" doesn't fly - cameras were rolling and Michael knew that. He may not have been "sick" or "ill" but he was burned out from not getting enough sleep and not eating properly, and rather than man up to the challenge and the task at hand, he tried to keep living the same lifestyle that he had been doing for years and years by this point and look what happened. He employed a shady sycophant doctor (because let's be real, no legit doctor abiding by the proper code of conduct acts like an ENABLER like Murray did) and that doctor fucked up and it cost Michael his life.
Maybe there's some conspiracy by the likes of Joe Jackson claiming Michael was an addict and whatever. And sure, the autopsy can say that he wasn't physical addicted to anything. But psychological addiction is as bad, Michael deluded himself into thinking the only way he could sleep was with drugs that he shouldn't have had access to, and he needed HELP.
[Edited 8/25/10 14:12pm] |
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There was a clip on youtube at one time of Michael telling fans that too (filmed on video), but then it gotten take off by YouTube.
Also Fox broke out a story on June 2, 2009 about how MJ was pissed off about the 50 shows. He wanted 10
And Rowe told Larry King how he went with Randy Phillips, Joe, Katherine, at the Beverly Hilton 3 weeks before his death. Fox even broke out the story three weeks before.
[Edited 8/25/10 14:03pm] | |
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Oh, really? To whom exactly (apart from the ones who want to make AEG look bad in order to create a lawsuit agaisnt it) did Michael say that? Everyone in contact with him, from dancers to Dileo to the bodyguards and the cook, claims Michael was excited about breaking yet another record. This clearly implies he signed for more than just 10 shows.
That rumor about Michael telling fans that he only wanted to do 10 shows was made up by the ever honest duo Joe and Leonard (remember what they did in early June). Funny enough, it appeared in the media the day after Rowe and Joe were denied money off of the TII tour. What a coincidence, uh?
If you read Michael's AEG contract you'll see that Michael agreed to do 31 shows or more. NOWHERE in the contract you see the number 10. And Michael was in the business for 45 years: he knew DAMN WELL what he was signing. In the contract it is clearly stipulated the following: "The client agrees to do 31 or more shows.". It NEVER says 10 dates.
Let's be realistic now, shall we Militant? | |
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There was video footage of Michael telling fans about wanting to do 10 shows, it got removed out of YouTube. | |
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There was NO video on youtube with Michael telling his fans that. Decrease the levels of delusion.
So what? FOX, like most other news channels, bases most of its "pop culture" news on RUMORS. Leonard Rowe and Joe leaked/invented that rumor to the press and FOX news based its report on it. When Joe and Rowe told the media they were Michael's new managers, some days after TII was announced, MSNBC also reported it. In what way does FOX reporting it makes the rumor true? Obviously, like any other news outlet, they base their reports on popstars in rumors. And, in June 2th - the day after the rumor was leaked to the press by the infamous duo- FOX reported what was becoming hot (rumored) news. After all, anything that includes Michael Jackson and failure is great to report. It still doesn't change the fact that Michael was NOT weak, think, unhealthy and so on. And it certainly doesn't change the fact that that whole "Michael just signed for 10 shows" is just BS from the same old vultures. [Edited 8/25/10 14:10pm] | |
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There was video. You can say whatever you want. It got removed, go read the comments on that channel on YouTube.
Are you going to say that this fan was lying as well???
Here is Samatha testimony. http://www.this-is-not-it.com/en/testim ... imony.html Samantha's testimony Last Updated on Friday, 09 October 2009 20:14 Tuesday, 06 October 2009 16:24 I don’t know where to begin with my testimony. There is simply too much to say and so many feelings involved, feelings of sadness, regret, anger, confusion and helplessness. However, I need to share my story with the rest of you, for what it’s worth. It won’t bring Michael back and the vultures around him will keep fighting for whatever is left of him and his estate. This campaign we are putting together isn’t to try and stop the unstoppable, but to simply do Michael justice by telling who we can that he wasn’t well and that he DID reach out to us and that we owe him at least the truth by telling you what he told and showed us in th elast few weeks of his life. Whether he expressed his anguish and distress in words or in obvious physical and mental states, I believe (and I am not alone) that he was crying out for help and no-one around him came to his rescue, blinded by greed, fear, self-interest, disregard or even lack of compassion. I have been a fan for over 20 years but only over the last 8 months of Michael’s life had I become what is called a “follower”. By that meaning I followed Michael on a regular if not daily basis. I got to see where he went and how he was and the people around him. I got to see his physical and mental state and how quickly things deteriorated in the last few weeks/months of his life. This is my recollection of the events preceding his death and how some of us, including myself, knew he was running out of time and was in great danger. We tried to intervene but we were too late. In November 2008, Michael who was then staying at the Bel-Air hotel, met with a group of us outside and spoke to us for quite a while and he was kind enough to bring us food from his favorite restaurant which he had ordered for himself too that evening. He looked great and was very calm, very clear and lucid. There was obviously nothing “wrong” with him that evening. He spoke to us about many things and hinted at many projects coming up. At that time we had no idea that concerts were in the works. In the next few weeks Michael had many meetings at that hotel, meetings which now we know were about the Tour. After the 02 concerts were announced in March, Michael began rehearsing at Center Staging between April and May. It is around that we started seeing a pattern in the increased visits to Dr. Klein’s office. The increase in visits and their duration began to alarm me and some others, especially when we began noticing the effects they had on him. He would start leaving the facility looking "groggy". We began realizing the procedures must have involved mind-altering substances. It reached the point where some of us commented that it was pointless to give him fan letters and gifts after doctor’s visits as he would just send them back out signed, even though they were clearly letters addressed to him and not pictures from autograph hunters. Something alarmed me more than usual on Saturday, April 25th,2009. It was the first time Michael went to see Dr. Klein on a week-end and it was late. He stayed there from 5pm-9.30pm. When he came out from Klein’s office Michael smelled very strongly of I would say either rubbing alcohol or Ether and looked groggy. On May 29th, Michael brought some of us in to Center Staging to talk to us about what was going on (after some fans told him they couldn’t get tickets to the concerts and how the ticket sales didn’t make sense and how things seemed to be a mess and was he aware of it). He told us he wasn’t aware of the problem, that he wasn’t aware that it was a seated venue and that he would do something about it. He told us he had gone to bed thinking it was 10 concerts and woke up finding out it was 50! He said “They did it without my consent. They just did it for obvious reasons”. He added “They did the schedule wrong too. It was supposed to be day, show off, day, show off, day, show off”. (He meant show, day off, show, day off). His voice was breaking as he was going to start crying and he put his hands together in a prayer position and stood quietly. We were quiet with him. It was a very intense moment and filled with, in my opinion, sadness and worry. I left feeling like our worries were validated and so did most of us there. Unfortunately, the day after Michael made this statement it came out in the press. We don't know, but AEG was quick to refute it and call it a lie. This also coincides with the timing of everything changing for the small group of us who used to have open contact with Michael. After AEG found out about Michael’s statement to us everything changed. Security shut us out and Michael stopped being as “available”. With restricted access (although we still saw got to see him and somewhat speak to him) the doctor’s visits became more frequent and we noticed more of a physical change in him, especially his weight. He just looked too skinny and something felt wrong overall. Even his security guards’ attitudes and ways changed. On June 1st Michael started rehearsals at the Forum in Inglewood A couple of weeks into it, Michael Amir (Michael’s personal assistant and security) said that Michael was very tired, that he hadn't slept the entire week-end and that AEG kept on calling him all the time. It was around that time that Michael would go to rehearsals later and later and sometimes cancel. One of those times was on June 12th. Michael went late to rehearsals. On arrival there he didn’t stop for us the way he usually did. Shortly afterward his security came to see where we were, driving by our cars a block away where we usually parked and waited. They made no attempt to tell us what they were doing. This was about 8-9pm. At around midnight one of his security guards called “Biggie”, came out and told us: “Michael says this is “dangerous” (?!) and that “Michael didn’t want to go to rehearsals tonight”, “he’s tired”. And then we were asked to line up one by one and that we would get to have 15 seconds each alone with Michael. It all felt awkward for all of us involved. We didn’t understand what was going on but of course we did line up and had our time individually. It was very impersonal and we were being closely monitored by his security. In the last few days of Michael’s life I also remember noticing his security guard Alberto Alvarez often looking very agitated and breaking into a nervous sweat. He would tell us, when questioning him on whether Michael was okay or not, that Michael was “focused” and in “tour mode” and not actually answering the question. Yet we could see it was more than that, that Michael had become increasingly altered, groggy and emaciated and that his security was nervous about something. In fact, instead of having 2-3 guards behind the gates at his house, it doubled and tripled and I even counted up to 12 of them on the night he died. Something was up, something had changed and we knew it was time to act. In an attempt to do an intervention to save his life, a couple of dozen fans (including myself) wrote letters to Michael the week before his death. It was out intention to give him the letters and to make a statement on behalf of all the fans who felt something was wrong. We knew it was a matter of time before he died unless an action was taken. No-one else around him seemed to care enough to do it. Once all the letters were collected and a plan was in place, we decided to intervene on June 24th, 2009. We did in fact manage to get them in his hands that afternoon. That night would be the last time I’d see him, leaving Staples Center at around 1.30 am on June 25th,2009. | |
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Yes, it was the fan testimonials that I was referring to. I never saw the FOX news thing or anything like that.
Listen, fans are NOT gonna forget what Michael told them and they ain't gonna lie to folks. One of the fans I believe was the girl who gave him the "Curls for my girls" t-shirt that he's wearing in the movie.
Hell I met Prince in 2007 at the O2 and I remember EVERY last detail of what happened with our encounter
Those fans who said he told them that he only wanted to do 10 shows aren't gonna make shit like that up. No way. [Edited 8/25/10 14:18pm] |
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I've already talked about the meeting, Suga. Look at my previous posts. The meeting which included Joe, Katherine, Rowe, Phillips and Michael, in Beverly Hills Hotel, happened because Joe and Leonard wanted Michael to sign a contract which would make Pappa's buddy Michael's financial advisor. Obviously, Leonard probably told the media that they just wanted to save Michael and other made up BS. The truth is that Randy Phillips has already been vocal about the meeting's true point: Rowe and Joe were desperate to put their hands in the TII's pie and that is why they demanded a meeting with Michael and his affiliates. Fox and many other TV channels and news outlets broke that story and there were even pictures of them getting out of the hotel.It just proves what I've been talking about: Joe and Rowe are nothing but vampires.
It just proves my point. Thank you for bringing that up. | |
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I don't trust their accounts. I don't even remember videos. | |
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TMFake, Faux News and the like don't even confirm anything. | |
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Exactly, what fan's going to make that up | |
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You know Timmy, if you start from the very beginning of the thread history on this board you could follow… - well, how it all happened.
I believe, right now the very first relevant thread name says: "Is MJ going to drop the next single of his new album?" – or something like that (2001, the "Invincible" promotion misery)
After a while there is: "MJ fans are demonstrating. WTF?" (2001, war with Sony) – and a whole family of related threads on it and on what followed (with some good articles in, BTW).
Then there is: "MJ had lost his f* mind!" (2002 (?), baby dangling incident) – and another series of threads, explosion of them, in fact. Yeah… later we will know it was the time LWMJ has being filmed.
I remember particularly well the one that announced: "A new documentary on MJ will be aired UK - *this channel, this time*, US - *that channel, that time*" – and the following discussions too: it looked not THAT bad, actually. Somebody put Bashir's motives in question – almost immediately, and somebody even confirmed better sells in UK. 2003.
After a while there were "MJ had been arrested… Damn!" and "Identity of MJ's accuser" (you probably won't believe this, but to the most MJ-indifferent folks – I mean neither fans nor haters - it was also the timepoint where the question of his guilt stopped to exist. Just this: "the accuser is the same boy who was on the documentary" – who on earth would take this seriously?)
Then there was a time of wildest speculations between the arrest and the trial beginning, jaw-dropping and blood-freezing tabloid reports… "Love letters"
I guess, by the beginning of the trial all lovers and haters were already so exhausted that the discussion of it was rather factual. Enter: "MJ in court, part I to N" (eighteen, I believe).
…Followed by three years of random, partly bizarre, mostly pointless reports: "MJ is to build amusement park in Bahrain", "MJ is sued by Prince"(!!!), "MJ visits a bookstore with his children" …until - "O2 concerts confirmed!!!!!!" …and "Let's talk Michael!" (few parts) …and then suddenly - "First O2 gigs postponed"…
And now we have… well, what we have. Still having.
Oh yeah, there was also a solid amount of threads on his looks, with many pictures too
…And music - now and then. Now and then. | |
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(special thanks to madam Dimond). And the confession of one devoted fan: "Having a hard time trying to accept that my idol might have been a child-molester" - or something like that. Critically, yeah.
But why would Michael have signed Rowe up as his manager to begin with? He did that. There's no question about it. He even gave his contract to Larry King when he came on that show.
Unless Michael was on drugs when he signed with Rowe. I have no idea. [Edited 8/25/10 14:25pm] | |
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I couldn't care less about what some TINI fans write. At the end of the day, those people are no different than the ones who claim they had sex with Michael (there are MANY who write DETAILED stories about supposed sex encounters). Are they credible? Does this means Michael was retarted and didn't know what in the blue hell he was signing (here's one of the reasons as to why Rowe, Oxman and Joe have to use the druggie rumors)? Does this mean Michael's people are all a bunch of illetrates who didn't know what was written in the contract? Why, exactly, would AEG, an enormously rich company, deceive Michael?
Look Militant and Suga: it's legally forbidden to simply add more shows without the client's consent. Michael would have to sign a contract in which AEG would propose more shows. Otherwise, there is NO way AEG would simply add more 40 shows. NO WAY. In planet Earth that is not only legally forbidden but also impossible. AEG would never taint its image by adding more shows since it could result in a lawsuit againt it.
WAKE UP TO THE REAL, FUNCTIONAL WORLD: In Michael's contract the number 10 doesn't even appear. It reads (and I'm going to repeat it again): "The client agrees to perform in 31 or more shows.". Michael signed a contract knowing full well he was agreeing to perform 31 or more shows. NOWHERE, in the contract, the number 10 appears. Michael was a shrewd business not some retarded.
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covers eyes to avoid looking at Friedman
"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." |
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Dileo talks about that in the Raffles interview. Michael was VERY afraid of his father so, when Joe put him in a corner and yelled at him "Sign this contract", Michael signed it. The other day, he phoned Dileo and told him: "We gotta get rid of this Rowe guy.". That's why Michael signed Rowe uo as his finantial advisor and, a day latter, fired him.
"Michael had asked me to go to the meeting with him but I was out of town. He knew what Joe and his buddy wanted. When Rowe was fired, a day latter, he came to me questioning me about that. I told him that the only reason Michael had even signed the contract [to make Rowe his financial advisor] was because Joe was looking over his shoulder. He always did what Joe wanted because he was very afraid. Besides, Joe and Rowe were, at that point, transforming Michae's life into a living hell. They hounded him like a shark hounds its prey and I don't think I have to say why.". | |
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Wasn't it Dr Tohme who signed the contract on behalf of Michael. Is that why Michael fired him right after the This is It tour announcement?
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Boo Hoo! Friedman says bad things about the Jackson! He bears their butt naked. Meanie Friedman!
Joe is just a victim! Cruel society! | |
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On a positive tip, i've bought every new official release since he left us.
This Is it. CD/DVD The Stripped Mixes. Unreleased Masters. Hello World. Live At The Forum.
I miss him a lot.
He was so great on 'Live At The Forum' i was surprised just how good he was, perhaps i shouldn't have been. The J5 were a class act. If you've any passing interest in MJ, you owe it to yourself to beg, borrow or steal this album. Preferably buy it though!. It's great to hear little Mike giving it loads of "Shake Your Money Maker!" on the cover of JB's 'There Was A Time' and the Sly cover fucking smokes too.
Awesome artist ALL his career. |
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Friedman has never been easy on the eyes.
Yeah I read the contract, it said 31 shows. Only after demand was strengthened did AEG wanted to add more shows, they gave MJ the option of 85, he thought it was too much then they shortened it to 50 and he agreed to it.
I think the 10 thing is he said, she said. The contract I read said otherwise...so did Mike's autopsy. He wasn't a druggie. Nor was he blindsided by AEG. If he didn't allow Joe or Leonard to use their game on him, why would he let AEG do it? Don't make sense. Truth is he was excited to do the shows that were going to sell out by the time he did 'em. | |
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No. | |
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Just like there are fanaticals who invent sexual encounters with Michael. Just like there are fanaticals who start campaigns like "This is Not it". | |
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I'm gonna get Live at the Forum, This Is It and The Stripped Mixes soon. | |
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Or "fans" who photoshopped an MJ picture with blond hair and blue eyes. | |
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Honestly its very hard to know the whole side of the story. I would not be surprised if Michael was on drugs and was signing things without knowing what he was doing.
And why would Michael be afraid of Joe now? We're talking about a man who split away from his dad when he started pursuing his own solo career and picked his own lawyers, accountants, and professional staff. That's just BS. Yeah he was scared when he was younger, but eventually he got over it and Joe no longer boss him around. [Edited 8/25/10 14:39pm] | |
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