steelyd said:

jiorjios said:

Which is why I said 'I Don't wanna say it cannot happen' so I will avoid this kind of attack. You are claiming you know three people. I said I am not aware of any scientifically proven transmission through oral sex. That doesn't mean there is not any. It's just means they are extremely few because they are very difficult to prove beyond doubt (since most people go on to have other forms of sex besides oral) What I do know is this:

Various scientific studies have been performed around the world to try and document and study instances of HIV transmission through oral sex. A programme in San Francisco studied 198 people, nearly all gay or bisexual men. The subjects stated that they had only had oral sex for a year, from six months preceding the six-month study to its end. 20 per cent of the study participants (39 people) reported performing oral sex on partners they knew to be HIV positive. 35 of those did not use a condom and 16 reported swallowing semen. No one became HIV positive during the study, although the small number of participants performing oral sex on HIV positive partners meant the researchers could only say that there was a less than 2.8 per cent chance of infection through oral sex over a year.¹ In 2000, a different San Francisco study of gay men who had recently acquired HIV infection found that 7.8 per cent of these infections were attributed to oral sex.² However, the results of the study have since been called into question due to the reliability of the participants' data.

In June 2002, a study conducted amongst 135 HIV negative Spanish heterosexuals, who were in a sexual relationship with a person who was HIV positive, reported that over 19,000 instances of unprotected oral sex had not led to any cases of HIV transmission.³ The study also looked at contributing factors that could affect the potential transmission of HIV through oral sex. They monitored viral load and asked questions such as whether ejaculation in the mouth occurred and how good oral health was. Amongst HIV positive men, 34 per cent had ejaculated into the mouths of their partners. Viral load levels were available for 60 people in the study, 10 per cent of whom had levels over 10,000 copies. Nearly 16 per cent of the HIV positive people had CD4 counts below 200. The study, conducted over a ten year period between 1990 and 2000, adds to the growing number of studies which suggest varying levels of risk of HIV transmission from oral sex when compared to anal or vaginal intercourse.

At the 4th International Oral AIDS Conference held in South Africa, the risk of transmission through oral sex was estimated to be approximately 0.04 per cent per contact.⁴ This percentage figure is a lot lower than the two American figures, because this figure is a risk per contact percentage, whereas the other figures are percentage risks over much longer time periods. Oral sex is still regarded as a low-risk sexual activity in terms of HIV transmission, but only when more work is done will we be clearer as to the risks of oral sex.

Of course none of this means you shouldn't use protection. Better safe than sorry.

Sorry you felt attacked, but too many people think that HIV/AIDS is no big deal or a thing of the past or that how you contract is is blown out of proportion. That's the jist of what I got from you first comment. It's a fact that 3 of my friends are HIV positive, not a claim. Instead of regurgitating someone elses data on HIV, go talk to people who have it and are living with it. HIV/AIDS is no joke.

I live with HIV. It might very well be a fact that 3 of your friends live with HIV but unless you were there and KNEW (somehow,scientifically) the very moment in which it was contracted, to your knowledge it is not actually a fact that your 3 friends contracted it orally. It is only a fact that that is what your friends have told you. Perhaps totally true; perhaps just what they want others to know/think. Just sayin.

[Edited 8/18/10 21:13pm]

johnart said:

BklynBabe said:

it takes 2 to protect......

It absolutely does. This sort of thing has been discussed in a bunch of threads before and it always gets me. There's lots of information readily available and by all means she should've been upfront, but I don't understand how it's solely the poz person's fault.

[Edited 8/18/10 23:28pm]

People need to take some responsibility for themselves....that's why they say protect yourself, not protect others. If you slang your thang out there, you have HIV, yes, but also herpes, warts, hep, and other incurable stuff. Educate yourself and protect yourself, or sometimes you may have to accept the consequences.

This chick needs to accept consequences for her irresponsible and assholish behavior too.

TonyVanDam said:

Phishanga said:

Uhm, explain this please, HIV is not in the saliva, how would this happen?

If that woman has a cut in her mouth and her male lover didn't know about it.

Ah, ok, that's what I thought you meant.

She's still a deceitful ass Ho and needs to be in jail!!!! If a drunk driver hits a person in another car we don't say to that other driver "you shouldn't have been driving" or "you should have prepared for a drunk driver to be on the road."

It just irks me that when these low lifes go around willfully spreading disease, people always want to absolve them of any guilt and wrongdoing by using the ole "it takes two to tango" argument. Other than eating, pissing, and shitting...pretty much everything in life can be a group effort. So fucking what? One bad apple spoils the bunch and this chick is dangerous. If she were a man spreading the HIV to women.... a prison sentence would be handed down.

DesireeNevermind said:

She's still a deceitful ass Ho and needs to be in jail!!!! If a drunk driver hits a person in another car we don't say to that other driver "you shouldn't have been driving" or "you should have prepared for a drunk driver to be on the road."

It just irks me that when these low lifes go around willfully spreading disease, people always want to absolve them of any guilt and wrongdoing by using the ole "it takes two to tango" argument. Other than eating, pissing, and shitting...pretty much everything in life can be a group effort. So fucking what? One bad apple spoils the bunch and this chick is dangerous. If she were a man spreading the HIV to women.... a prison sentence would be handed down.

Other than perhaps her legal defense, who wants to absolve her of any guilt?

johnart said:

BklynBabe said:

it takes 2 to protect......

It absolutely does. This sort of thing has been discussed in a bunch of threads before and it always gets me. There's lots of information readily available and by all means she should've been upfront, but I don't understand how it's solely the poz person's fault.

[Edited 8/18/10 23:28pm]

OK johnart, when I have a cold I cover my mouth so I don't pass it along. I also do not shake hands with people at that time either. Why? Because I don't enjoy having a common cold and do not want you to have it either and would feel guilty if you caught it due to my carelessness. I also have an 8 year old daughter and every time she coughs or sneezes I tell her to mouth so that others don't get her germs - none of which are potentially lethal. every year her school sends home a letter to parents to "PLEASE be considerate of others and leave their sick kids at home" Again, taking responsibility to not get othes sick. If people can expect children to do this when they have the flu is it too much to expect, not just hope, that people will due this with a disease that can morph into something deadly ?

Next I lived in Provincetown in the 80's and it was very common for gay men to have one night stands. By the mid 80's they began dropping like flies because they caught the disease and gaveit to eachother BECAUSE THEY HAD NO IDEA THEY EVEN HAD IT. They were not purposely running around with a devil may care attitude. (back then HIV almost always morphed into full blown AIDs and there wasn't any decent meds). It was an extremely painful time not only for the gay mens community in town but for the whole tiny town. Everybody knew several people who had died by 1989.

In 1990 I moved to Atlanta and answered an add for a busser/ server. Got the job and almost all the servers were gay men. I hung out with Bill. Bill had a friend named Rob that he was deffinately attracted to. Rob was HIV possitive and resposibly told Bill (who did not have the virus) so that Bill could make the informed decision to have sex with Rob or not. Bill was defffinately in love with Rob and they became a couple. Rob showed his love for Bill by chancing Bills rejection due to Rob being HIV possitive. There were still risks involved for Bill to have sex with Rob but they were minamalized because he knew every thing he could do to decrease his chances.

This woman did not give any of the men in her life the heads up to become informed about what they could do to still have all kinds of sex with her and not get infected.

Now, obviously alot of straight men prefer to not use any protection and maybe she did not want to say "you absolutely need to use protection with me because I have an STD" because then he'd ask her which one and possibly she would not get any booty calls at all. Toooooo Bad for her.

It was totally selfish what she did, as selfish as me coughing in your face times a million. In no way do I consider it equally their fault if they in fact caught the disease from her . Are they equally responsible because they shouldn't have been fornicating in the first place???

Are they equally responsible because if they have unprotedted sex with a woman who doesn't tell them she is sick or lies they deserve to be on meds forever for their devil may care attitude?

I mean really, I don't personally know you but you have always struck me as someone who would not only not have unprotected sex with another man AND NOT TELL HIM OF YOUR STATUS, but I can't even picture you coughing in my face or coughing into your hand and then shaking mine. I think you have the right, as we all do, of expecting that level of descency and responsibility from all people.

Deadflow3r said:

johnart said:

It absolutely does. This sort of thing has been discussed in a bunch of threads before and it always gets me. There's lots of information readily available and by all means she should've been upfront, but I don't understand how it's solely the poz person's fault.

[Edited 8/18/10 23:28pm]

OK johnart, when I have a cold I cover my mouth so I don't pass it along. I also do not shake hands with people at that time either. Why? Because I don't enjoy having a common cold and do not want you to have it either and would feel guilty if you caught it due to my carelessness. I also have an 8 year old daughter and every time she coughs or sneezes I tell her to mouth so that others don't get her germs - none of which are potentially lethal. every year her school sends home a letter to parents to "PLEASE be considerate of others and leave their sick kids at home" Again, taking responsibility to not get othes sick. If people can expect children to do this when they have the flu is it too much to expect, not just hope, that people will due this with a disease that can morph into something deadly ?

Next I lived in Provincetown in the 80's and it was very common for gay men to have one night stands. By the mid 80's they began dropping like flies because they caught the disease and gaveit to eachother BECAUSE THEY HAD NO IDEA THEY EVEN HAD IT. They were not purposely running around with a devil may care attitude. (back then HIV almost always morphed into full blown AIDs and there wasn't any decent meds). It was an extremely painful time not only for the gay mens community in town but for the whole tiny town. Everybody knew several people who had died by 1989.

In 1990 I moved to Atlanta and answered an add for a busser/ server. Got the job and almost all the servers were gay men. I hung out with Bill. Bill had a friend named Rob that he was deffinately attracted to. Rob was HIV possitive and resposibly told Bill (who did not have the virus) so that Bill could make the informed decision to have sex with Rob or not. Bill was defffinately in love with Rob and they became a couple. Rob showed his love for Bill by chancing Bills rejection due to Rob being HIV possitive. There were still risks involved for Bill to have sex with Rob but they were minamalized because he knew every thing he could do to decrease his chances.

This woman did not give any of the men in her life the heads up to become informed about what they could do to still have all kinds of sex with her and not get infected.

Now, obviously alot of straight men prefer to not use any protection and maybe she did not want to say "you absolutely need to use protection with me because I have an STD" because then he'd ask her which one and possibly she would not get any booty calls at all. Toooooo Bad for her.

It was totally selfish what she did, as selfish as me coughing in your face times a million. In no way do I consider it equally their fault if they in fact caught the disease from her . Are they equally responsible because they shouldn't have been fornicating in the first place???

Are they equally responsible because if they have unprotedted sex with a woman who doesn't tell them she is sick or lies they deserve to be on meds forever for their devil may care attitude?

I mean really, I don't personally know you but you have always struck me as someone who would not only not have unprotected sex with another man AND NOT TELL HIM OF YOUR STATUS, but I can't even picture you coughing in my face or coughing into your hand and then shaking mine. I think you have the right, as we all do, of expecting that level of descency and responsibility from all people.

I do not disagree with any of that. I don't know why people think that expecting the person who made the decision to go it without protection share some sort of responsibility for their part in the ordeal has to mean excusing the other. When have I said chick is innocent in this?

She was wrong, I've said this.

And grown-ass dude made a decision on his own.

[Edited 8/19/10 15:25pm]

johnart said:

Deadflow3r said:

OK johnart, when I have a cold I cover my mouth so I don't pass it along. I also do not shake hands with people at that time either. Why? Because I don't enjoy having a common cold and do not want you to have it either and would feel guilty if you caught it due to my carelessness. I also have an 8 year old daughter and every time she coughs or sneezes I tell her to mouth so that others don't get her germs - none of which are potentially lethal. every year her school sends home a letter to parents to "PLEASE be considerate of others and leave their sick kids at home" Again, taking responsibility to not get othes sick. If people can expect children to do this when they have the flu is it too much to expect, not just hope, that people will due this with a disease that can morph into something deadly ?

Next I lived in Provincetown in the 80's and it was very common for gay men to have one night stands. By the mid 80's they began dropping like flies because they caught the disease and gaveit to eachother BECAUSE THEY HAD NO IDEA THEY EVEN HAD IT. They were not purposely running around with a devil may care attitude. (back then HIV almost always morphed into full blown AIDs and there wasn't any decent meds). It was an extremely painful time not only for the gay mens community in town but for the whole tiny town. Everybody knew several people who had died by 1989.

In 1990 I moved to Atlanta and answered an add for a busser/ server. Got the job and almost all the servers were gay men. I hung out with Bill. Bill had a friend named Rob that he was deffinately attracted to. Rob was HIV possitive and resposibly told Bill (who did not have the virus) so that Bill could make the informed decision to have sex with Rob or not. Bill was defffinately in love with Rob and they became a couple. Rob showed his love for Bill by chancing Bills rejection due to Rob being HIV possitive. There were still risks involved for Bill to have sex with Rob but they were minamalized because he knew every thing he could do to decrease his chances.

This woman did not give any of the men in her life the heads up to become informed about what they could do to still have all kinds of sex with her and not get infected.

Now, obviously alot of straight men prefer to not use any protection and maybe she did not want to say "you absolutely need to use protection with me because I have an STD" because then he'd ask her which one and possibly she would not get any booty calls at all. Toooooo Bad for her.

It was totally selfish what she did, as selfish as me coughing in your face times a million. In no way do I consider it equally their fault if they in fact caught the disease from her . Are they equally responsible because they shouldn't have been fornicating in the first place???

Are they equally responsible because if they have unprotedted sex with a woman who doesn't tell them she is sick or lies they deserve to be on meds forever for their devil may care attitude?

I mean really, I don't personally know you but you have always struck me as someone who would not only not have unprotected sex with another man AND NOT TELL HIM OF YOUR STATUS, but I can't even picture you coughing in my face or coughing into your hand and then shaking mine. I think you have the right, as we all do, of expecting that level of descency and responsibility from all people.

I do not disagree with any of that. I don't know why people think that expecting the person who made the decision to go it without protection share some sort of responsibility for their part in the ordeal has to mean excusing the other. When have I said chick is innocent in this?

She was wrong, I've said this.

And grown-ass dude made a decision on his own.

[Edited 8/19/10 15:25pm]

I did not say that you said she was inocent. I am asking you DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THEY ARE EQUALLY RESPONSIBLE? because I honestly do not. She knew what he did not know, that his chances were VERY great that he would catch a life lond STD that could morph into something deadly. He is an idiot, but she is heartless beyond compare.

Deadflow3r said:

johnart said:

I do not disagree with any of that. I don't know why people think that expecting the person who made the decision to go it without protection share some sort of responsibility for their part in the ordeal has to mean excusing the other. When have I said chick is innocent in this?

She was wrong, I've said this.

And grown-ass dude made a decision on his own.

[Edited 8/19/10 15:25pm]

I did not say that you said she was inocent. I am asking you DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THEY ARE EQUALLY RESPONSIBLE? because I honestly do not. She knew what he did not know, that his chances were VERY great that he would catch a life lond STD that could morph into something deadly. He is an idiot, but she is heartless beyond compare.

No I don't think they are equally responsible.

But I do think that in this day and age, with the amount of public, readily accessible information, people who engage in unprotected sex have to share some sort of responsibility for possible consequences. People just don't want to own that, or even hear it. The very notion of it pisses people off, I've seen it happen thread after thread.

I became poz at some point in my youth. I was quite busy and didn't bother to ask anyone about their status. EVEN with my mother being an AIDS educator.

Now how in the hell am I gonna sit there and be looking to put the blame on someone when I knew damn well what I was doing. I was getting my rocks off and that was more important than being careful. There's nobody out there to blame for that other than myself.

[Edited 8/19/10 15:46pm]

johnart said:

Deadflow3r said:

I did not say that you said she was inocent. I am asking you DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THEY ARE EQUALLY RESPONSIBLE? because I honestly do not. She knew what he did not know, that his chances were VERY great that he would catch a life lond STD that could morph into something deadly. He is an idiot, but she is heartless beyond compare.

No I don't think they are equally responsible.

But I do think that in this day and age, with the amount of public, readily accessible information, people who engage in unprotected sex have to share some sort of responsibility for possible consequences. People just don't want to own that, or even hear it. The very notion of it pisses people off, I've seen it happen thread after thread.

I became poz at some point in my youth. I was quite busy and didn't bother to ask anyone about their status. EVEN with my mother being an AIDS educator.

Now how in the hell am I gonna sit there and be looking to put the blame on someone when I knew damn well what I was doing. I was getting my rocks off and that was more important than being careful. There's nobody out there to blame for that other than myself.

[Edited 8/19/10 15:46pm]

OK, that I can live with. That is like the guy from England who ran a thread a few months back saying he only used a condom with women when he was having anal sex with them. That was just outright crazy to me. He is picking women up at bars and assuming that if they had an STD they would have gotten tested and found that info out and be passing it along to every potential f@#k buddy. How naive and stupid. He would be better off having sex with prostitutes.

Not all people who engage in sex without love are irresponsible but it does open the door to having with people who have no heart, no love in them to give, and completely hedonistic and narcisistic. It is all so scary and the fact that some have no fear at all in having unprotected sex with anybody is something I find baffleing.

johnart said:

DesireeNevermind said:

She's still a deceitful ass Ho and needs to be in jail!!!! If a drunk driver hits a person in another car we don't say to that other driver "you shouldn't have been driving" or "you should have prepared for a drunk driver to be on the road."

It just irks me that when these low lifes go around willfully spreading disease, people always want to absolve them of any guilt and wrongdoing by using the ole "it takes two to tango" argument. Other than eating, pissing, and shitting...pretty much everything in life can be a group effort. So fucking what? One bad apple spoils the bunch and this chick is dangerous. If she were a man spreading the HIV to women.... a prison sentence would be handed down.

Other than perhaps her legal defense, who wants to absolve her of any guilt?

When the first response to a story like this is that the dudes should have somehow known better or taken more precaution or whatever....it sounds as if they are being blamed for what SHE did to them! She knew better. She knew about her own status and chose not to disclose it to the men. Hell...if they still fuck her after she's told them she's HIV positive then yeah...anything that happens is on them. But in this case she did not tell them and maybe even potentially lied else why are they arresting her unless they have good cause to show that she intended to infect others.

There has to remain in this day and age some degree of consideration and common courtesy with regard to how we treat people we have sexual relations and relationships with, especially when STDs are so high. Like Deadflower says, she covers her mouth when she coughs and doesn't shake hands with someone when she's got a cold and what not. These are courteous acts we learn when we are children yet when it comes to sex....people don't care who they infect with whatever disease nor care who they impregnate. It's all so sad and pathetic.

Deadflow3r said:

johnart said:

No I don't think they are equally responsible.

But I do think that in this day and age, with the amount of public, readily accessible information, people who engage in unprotected sex have to share some sort of responsibility for possible consequences. People just don't want to own that, or even hear it. The very notion of it pisses people off, I've seen it happen thread after thread.

I became poz at some point in my youth. I was quite busy and didn't bother to ask anyone about their status. EVEN with my mother being an AIDS educator.

Now how in the hell am I gonna sit there and be looking to put the blame on someone when I knew damn well what I was doing. I was getting my rocks off and that was more important than being careful. There's nobody out there to blame for that other than myself.

[Edited 8/19/10 15:46pm]

OK, that I can live with. That is like the guy from England who ran a thread a few months back saying he only used a condom with women when he was having anal sex with them. That was just outright crazy to me. He is picking women up at bars and assuming that if they had an STD they would have gotten tested and found that info out and be passing it along to every potential f@#k buddy. How naive and stupid. He would be better off having sex with prostitutes.

Not all people who engage in sex without love are irresponsible but it does open the door to having with people who have no heart, no love in them to give, and completely hedonistic and narcisistic. It is all so scary and the fact that some have no fear at all in having unprotected sex with anybody is something I find baffleing.

So dude is otherwise riding chicks raw and making babies he doesn't want? See, that's the hot mess I'm talking about. Carelessness all around. He doesn't want to catch a disease but doesn't care if he pops up a daddy along the way.

I swear...when it comes to teaching people sexual responsiblity the only thing that resonates with them is some jail time. Jail time for knowingly infecting people and jail time for back child support.

DesireeNevermind said:

johnart said:

Other than perhaps her legal defense, who wants to absolve her of any guilt?

When the first response to a story like this is that the dudes should have somehow known better or taken more precaution or whatever....it sounds as if they are being blamed for what SHE did to them! She knew better. She knew about her own status and chose not to disclose it to the men. Hell...if they still fuck her after she's told them she's HIV positive then yeah...anything that happens is on them. But in this case she did not tell them and maybe even potentially lied else why are they arresting her unless they have good cause to show that she intended to infect others.

There has to remain in this day and age some degree of consideration and common courtesy with regard to how we treat people we have sexual relations and relationships with, especially when STDs are so high. Like Deadflower says, she covers her mouth when she coughs and doesn't shake hands with someone when she's got a cold and what not. These are courteous acts we learn when we are children yet when it comes to sex....people don't care who they infect with whatever disease nor care who they impregnate. It's all so sad and pathetic.

Like I said before, expecting people to own up to some sort of responsibility for their actions is not the same as blaming them or excusing the other person. If they asked and she concealed it's a bit different, but to be truthful just plain naive IMO because even if someone presented you with a piece of paper that said they were negative you don't know what happen or just how freaky they might have gotten between the time the blood was drawn and the time they hand you that paper.

I'm just sayin wrap it up and then you don't have to be takin no bitches to court.

johnart said:

DesireeNevermind said:

When the first response to a story like this is that the dudes should have somehow known better or taken more precaution or whatever....it sounds as if they are being blamed for what SHE did to them! She knew better. She knew about her own status and chose not to disclose it to the men. Hell...if they still fuck her after she's told them she's HIV positive then yeah...anything that happens is on them. But in this case she did not tell them and maybe even potentially lied else why are they arresting her unless they have good cause to show that she intended to infect others.

There has to remain in this day and age some degree of consideration and common courtesy with regard to how we treat people we have sexual relations and relationships with, especially when STDs are so high. Like Deadflower says, she covers her mouth when she coughs and doesn't shake hands with someone when she's got a cold and what not. These are courteous acts we learn when we are children yet when it comes to sex....people don't care who they infect with whatever disease nor care who they impregnate. It's all so sad and pathetic.

Like I said before, expecting people to own up to some sort of responsibility for their actions is not the same as blaming them or excusing the other person. If they asked and she concealed it's a bit different, but to be truthful just plain naive IMO because even if someone presented you with a piece of paper that said they were negative you don't know what happen or just how freaky they might have gotten between the time the blood was drawn and the time they hand you that paper.

I'm just sayin wrap it up and then you don't have to be takin no bitches to court.

I can roll with that.

I still want that trashy hookah in jail though.

DesireeNevermind said:

johnart said:

Other than perhaps her legal defense, who wants to absolve her of any guilt?

When the first response to a story like this is that the dudes should have somehow known better or taken more precaution or whatever....it sounds as if they are being blamed for what SHE did to them! She knew better. She knew about her own status and chose not to disclose it to the men. Hell...if they still fuck her after she's told them she's HIV positive then yeah...anything that happens is on them. But in this case she did not tell them and maybe even potentially lied else why are they arresting her unless they have good cause to show that she intended to infect others.

There has to remain in this day and age some degree of consideration and common courtesy with regard to how we treat people we have sexual relations and relationships with, especially when STDs are so high. Like Deadflower says, she covers her mouth when she coughs and doesn't shake hands with someone when she's got a cold and what not. These are courteous acts we learn when we are children yet when it comes to sex....people don't care who they infect with whatever disease nor care who they impregnate. It's all so sad and pathetic.

but I'm not blaming them. Chick was wrong so was no point to state the obvious. At the same token if you don't protect yourself then why expect anyone else to protect you. Don't go all raw dog up in someone and you don't know them or their status!

BTW I know too many people that cough on folk and don't wash their hands neither

Common courtesy is right up there with common sense!

Rare as fuck!

PS I always drive like everyone else on the road is either drunk or ignorant....

I'm just sayin wrap it up and then you don't have to be takin no bitches to court

I'm just sayin wrap it up and then you don't have to be takin no bitches to court or ending up in the hospital or worse.....

WRAP IT THE FUCK UP!!! DOUBLE WRAP IF BITCH LOOKS SUSPICIOUS!!!!

I can't find it right now, but the first article I read about this earlier this week --- it reported that she said her doctor told her that since she's a woman, it was very unlikely that she'd pass it on to a man so she figured it would be ok to have unprotected sex sometimes (which is just stupid these days with all the info we have; it's like playing Russian Roulette ~ but putting the gun to somebody else's head instead of your own before you pull the trigger)

I don't know if all 3 of the men she had unprotected sex with asked her status (I think only the one in the court case is HIV+), but she admitted to not volunteering that info. She's been charged with being reckless or something (I forget the exact wording) -- in general/to the general public; not for giving it to that particular guy [article also said there was no way to prove he got it from her]

and I agree --- even if somebody presents you with proof they're std/sti free, you really can't know what they've done since the time the tests were taken, so, just wrap it up..

[Edited 8/19/10 19:26pm]

BklynBabe said:

PS I always drive like everyone else on the road is either drunk or ignorant....

I'm just sayin wrap it up and then you don't have to be takin no bitches to court

I'm just sayin wrap it up and then you don't have to be takin no bitches to court or ending up in the hospital or worse.....

WRAP IT THE FUCK UP!!! DOUBLE WRAP IF BITCH LOOKS SUSPICIOUS!!!!

PositivityNYC said:

I can't find it right now, but the first article I read about this earlier this week --- it reported that she said her doctor told her that since she's a woman, it was very unlikely that she'd pass it on to a man so she figured it would be ok to have unprotected sex sometimes (which is just stupid these days with all the info we have; it's like playing Russian Roulette ~ but putting the gun to somebody else's head instead of your own before you pull the trigger)

I don't know if all 3 of the men she had unprotected sex with asked her status (I think only the one in the court case is HIV+), but she admitted to not volunteering that info. She's been charged with being reckless or something (I forget the exact wording) -- in general/to the general public; not for giving it to that particular guy [article also said there was no way to prove he got it from her]

and I agree --- even if somebody presents you with proof they're std/sti free, you really can't know what they've done since the time the tests were taken, so, just wrap it up..

[Edited 8/19/10 19:26pm]

This is a whole other side of this that we're not even touching on, but has the potential to make people's heads explode. It kind of goes back to the whole thing I said about, in actuality, only knowing what people want you to know. For example, some folk will say and swear up and down that they contracted HIV orally because they don't want folk knowing they would take a dick up their ass.

It sounds ridiculous as hell, but it most certainly happens. People are stupid like that.

[Edited 8/19/10 21:22pm]

DesireeNevermind said:

What the hell???

Oh string this bitch up quick!!! Foul ass heffa. I think she knew exactly what she was doing too.

There have been two recent convictions in the Dallas-area of people who did this shit.

I done told ya'll, I'ma fuck a muthafucka up, call the cops to tell 'em I did the shit, then go to jail to get some free health care.

SCNDLS said:

DesireeNevermind said:

What the hell???

Oh string this bitch up quick!!! Foul ass heffa. I think she knew exactly what she was doing too.

There have been two recent convictions in the Dallas-area of people who did this shit.

I done told ya'll, I'ma fuck a muthafucka up, call the cops to tell 'em I did the shit, then go to jail to get some free health care.

Angrily I predict she won't go to jail.
I am glad that this was reported. Everyone should take more care, I imagine there's a few of these killers running around.

DesireeNevermind said:

Graycap23 said:

Humans are a trip..............why the hell would any one do this?

Perhaps she is wounded and in search of some twisted revenge. The old "somebody gave it to me so I will give it to somebody else" tired song and dance. If she was so inclined...she could have just whupped the ass of the dude that infected her...but oh no....she has to take her anger and vengengeance (sp) on some poor unsuspecting sap!

Yeah, yeah, I get that everybody needs to look out for themselves during sexual liaisons but still...what she did was wrong and most foul. It is a terrible thing to abuse a person's trust and endanger their lives. We all know humans, particularly men, don't thing logically during sex...so to use that against a person and knowingly infect them with a virus that could prove deadly and is easy to pass on to another person well....that just makes you far more evil and incredibly more careless than the people you giftgiving too. SMH x 10,000

The group this girl was in was the German equivilent to the Spice Girls or Destiny's Child here in Germany (in terms of their fame level in the country). I have a lot a friends in the music business in this country (as many of them are based here in Hamburg) and quite frankly, a good number of them are skeezin' ass hoes who don't even think about wrapping it up before they hop in the sack.. trust, there is a lot of sack-hoppin' goin' on over here with people cheating on their mates every which way. Oddly enough, all of these people are honestly nice folks and all, but once they start thinking with their sexual organs they all become idiots of whim and selfish fancy. I tripped out when i saw her story because I know most of the dudes that played in No Angels backing band, and I hope to gawd none of them hit it. On tour, all bets are off and all sorts of shenanigans go on, so there is the remote possibility one of them coulda fell into those thighs. It's all so nasty and incestuous, I'm sooo happy I'm out of that scene

johnart said:

BklynBabe said:

it takes 2 to protect......

It absolutely does. This sort of thing has been discussed in a bunch of threads before and it always gets me. There's lots of information readily available and by all means she should've been upfront, but I don't understand how it's solely the poz person's fault.

[Edited 8/18/10 23:28pm]

Cause these mofos do not wrap it up over here unless they already have a kid, and then suddenly everybody's reaching for a condom. You would think the whole AIDS/HIV movement completely passed this place by.

I'm just thinking about how famous they were, all the endorsements they had, how they were on every piece of merchandise fathomable for kids...meanwhile, she's not being honest about her status and running around possibly infecting folks. That's so foul.

Ottensen said:

I'm just thinking about how famous they were, all the endorsements they had, how they were on every piece of merchandise fathomable for kids...meanwhile, she's not being honest about her status and running around possibly infecting folks. That's so foul.

Wow. DIdn't know they were that famous. Ridiculous!

kitbradley said:

Based on the men I've talked to, unfortunately, the majority of men don't think they can catch HIV from a woman. The only reason why they wear condoms once in a while is to avoid pregnancy but they don't worry about STD's too much.

Hell, a lot of men aren't to worried about unwanted pregnancy until after the fact. Still I find men and women are suck on stupid . . . it won't happen to me. One dumbest thing I've heard of late was at a health care fair given at my church: This young woman stopped by the AIDS/HIV booth looked at the literature and said, she didn't need to know anything about AIDS/HIV because she was twenty- two.

SCNDLS said:

Ottensen said:

I'm just thinking about how famous they were, all the endorsements they had, how they were on every piece of merchandise fathomable for kids...meanwhile, she's not being honest about her status and running around possibly infecting folks. That's so foul.

Wow. DIdn't know they were that famous. Ridiculous!

Yup. They were our little super-girl group over here ( and they can't sang worth a lick, neither).

Girl, can you imagine the public outcry if Michelle or Kelly pulled some shit like this at home? Seriously, this heffa been on the front page of the newspapers here all damn week

Another issue is that she is young, attractive and has some money. People have this idea that STD's are only carried by people you wouldn't want to sleep with anyway with track marks up their arm. Amy Winehouse would be someone people would think had STD's but she is problably the one that is clean because she doesn't trust nobody and always uses protection.

I am 48 years old (for the next 9 days anyway) and I want to tell you something. It is women my age that are getting STD's and do you know why? Because they aren't worried about getting pregnant so the only reason to ask a guy to use a condom is because you either have a STD yourself or you believe he does. I know this woman, white college educated, workes at a college, and the type that has traveled alot in Europe. She met this guy whose real name was Winston. Well Winston has homes both in the States and abroad. He was about 62 to her 56 and really charmed the pants off of her. He was seperated, so he says, and his wife was in Switzerland. Well, this woman, newly divorced herself, gets Herpes. She is lucky it wasn't HIV. The lesson is ladies and gents anybody can not only catch the disease but be totally dishonest about it aswell. Remember Tina Chow, the fashionista? She never made it to 50 because of catching HIV before there was any meds. The man she caught it from did "not look the type".

I think gay men are well aware that wealth and status are no protection against STD's but I truly believe that us straight folks think we can judge by looking people over.

Deadflow3r said:

Another issue is that she is young, attractive and has some money. People have this idea that STD's are only carried by people you wouldn't want to sleep with anyway with track marks up their arm. Amy Winehouse would be someone people would think had STD's but she is problably the one that is clean because she doesn't trust nobody and always uses protection.

I am 48 years old (for the next 9 days anyway) and I want to tell you something. It is women my age that are getting STD's and do you know why? Because they aren't worried about getting pregnant so the only reason to ask a guy to use a condom is because you either have a STD yourself or you believe he does. I know this woman, white college educated, workes at a college, and the type that has traveled alot in Europe. She met this guy whose real name was Winston. Well Winston has homes both in the States and abroad. He was about 62 to her 56 and really charmed the pants off of her. He was seperated, so he says, and his wife was in Switzerland. Well, this woman, newly divorced herself, gets Herpes. She is lucky it wasn't HIV. The lesson is ladies and gents anybody can not only catch the disease but be totally dishonest about it aswell. Remember Tina Chow, the fashionista? She never made it to 50 because of catching HIV before there was any meds. The man she caught it from did "not look the type".

I think gay men are well aware that wealth and status are no protection against STD's but I truly believe that us straight folks think we can judge by looking people over.

Unfortunately I don't think even gay men are as "aware" as we should be. There are still a lot of generalizations across the board regarding this .

Deadflow3r said:

Another issue is that she is young, attractive and has some money. People have this idea that STD's are only carried by people you wouldn't want to sleep with anyway with track marks up their arm. Amy Winehouse would be someone people would think had STD's but she is problably the one that is clean because she doesn't trust nobody and always uses protection.

I am 48 years old (for the next 9 days anyway) and I want to tell you something. It is women my age that are getting STD's and do you know why? Because they aren't worried about getting pregnant so the only reason to ask a guy to use a condom is because you either have a STD yourself or you believe he does. I know this woman, white college educated, workes at a college, and the type that has traveled alot in Europe. She met this guy whose real name was Winston. Well Winston has homes both in the States and abroad. He was about 62 to her 56 and really charmed the pants off of her. He was seperated, so he says, and his wife was in Switzerland. Well, this woman, newly divorced herself, gets Herpes. She is lucky it wasn't HIV. The lesson is ladies and gents anybody can not only catch the disease but be totally dishonest about it aswell. Remember Tina Chow, the fashionista? She never made it to 50 because of catching HIV before there was any meds. The man she caught it from did "not look the type".

I think gay men are well aware that wealth and status are no protection against STD's but I truly believe that us straight folks think we can judge by looking people over.

Sad.......but true. And it really isn't even worth the risk.