selling out is changing your music style to the flavour of the month for financial gain

[Edited 8/15/10 18:22pm]

double post

[Edited 8/15/10 18:27pm]

In terms of Black artists, there are popular actions that many in the Black community consider selling out. There are many who will sellout their own community just for the check. There are many in the world who believe ANYTHING is acceptable as long as someone is getting paid. I'm not one of those people.

The following are examples of what i have considered "selling out" back in the day and even some currently:

1. Music changes. I'm not going to get into it because there are too many who disagree with me and I'm not here to argue. However, though Prince never was in a specific sound category, and each of his albums are indeed different, IMO there is DEFINITELY a pre and post Purple Rain line. Many at the time viewed this line as the selling out line.

2. No longer give interviews to Black magazines, or Black magazines all of a sudden are a afterthought.

3. When on tour, Black radio stations all of a sudden no longer get tickets for contests, or they NOW do so AFTER pop stations.

4. The women cast in movies and videos, ESPECIALLY if the male lead is black. VERY few white artist cast Black women as their leading lady, why did so many black artist? Why did the Black community have to accept Appollonia and Melody Thomas Scott but the white community couldn't accept a Robin Givens or a Debbie Morgan.

5. Date Black women in their early or struggling days, but after the artist "make it" their dating "preference" changes and all of a sudden you "don't see color".

6. No longer show up at Black award shows.

7. Your associates change. You were always seen with Black people, suddenly there is only 1 if any seen with you now.

8. Runs back to the Black community after what they perceives as their "cross-over" audience turning on them. OR, run back to America after Europe "turns" on them by not buying their music anymore.

9. Talk down to Black people during interviews or on talk shows. Their "horizons have been expanded" and suddenly they now know better than the Black Community as a whole.

10. In the midst of a majority white audience, they make fun of Black culture or portray Black people in a way that places themselves outside of the Black community as a spectator. (This one is a little difficult to explain in the way that I would like to at the moment. There is almost like a "look at THEM and what THEY do" type of element to it).

These are just a few that myself and many others that I know considered "sell out" moves back in the day. I feel differently about a few of those listed above as the world has changed. But I still feel the same about most because I still will see it on occassion.

This is ALL MY opinion.

*note* Though a couple are opinions I had of Prince at one time, most of these are not specifically toward him.

Sellout doesn't mean what it used to mean like ten, fifteen years ago anymore.

I'm tired of Black People getting mad at Black artists for doing different kinds of music , Oh it's not black enough. Get on my nerves with that smh...

babybugz said:

I'm tired of Black People getting mad at Black artists for doing different kinds of music , Oh it's not black enough. Get on my nerves with that smh...

Me too. If the music sucked, I'd call it sappy not that dude "sold out".

It depends

it can be referred to in a negative sense or in terms of the person's accomplishment

sellout in a negative sense- would be someone going beyond their race, traditions, or customs to satisfy a greater audience. African American audience got mad at Michael Jackson for not doing things the "black" way.

sellout in a positive way may refer to a person's accomplishment- example- Madonna's show is a sellout, or Prince's show is sellout.

[Edited 8/15/10 20:12pm]

Timmy84 said:

Someone, I forgot who, said that they were also accused of being a sellout. His response was, "Yeah I'm selling out, I'm selling out records and concert tickets."

I think you may be talking about the cat from Metallica Lars Ulrich.

phunkdaddy said:

Timmy84 said:

Someone, I forgot who, said that they were also accused of being a sellout. His response was, "Yeah I'm selling out, I'm selling out records and concert tickets."

I think you may be talking about the cat from Metallica Lars Ulrich.

Yeah lastdecember mentioned that lol

TonyVanDam said:

rialb said:

To use Prince as an example some of his pre Purple Rain fanbase accused him of selling out with that album/movie.

Some fans thought that Nat King Cole sold out when he stopped recording jazz music and started recording pop music.

Some Metallica fans though that they sold out in 1991 with the Metallica album.

Often when a band or artist changes their sound they are accused of selling out.

Most metal purists believe Metallica sold out the moment the band toned-down their thrash metal sound in exchange for actually writing sensible song lyrics throught the Metallica album.

But in my opinion, Metallica really sold out when they sued Napster!

I say that believe at that point, the band that was one consider to be musical rebels within metal were now looking AND talking corporate. All 4 band members even got hair cuts (which was the final blow to every metal fans that believes in the tradition of having long hair).

I think it was the dude from Skid Row that was talking shit about their haircuts. I forgot

his name but he was on Celebrity Fit Club last year with Bobby Brown.

phunkdaddy said:

TonyVanDam said:

Most metal purists believe Metallica sold out the moment the band toned-down their thrash metal sound in exchange for actually writing sensible song lyrics throught the Metallica album.

But in my opinion, Metallica really sold out when they sued Napster!

I say that believe at that point, the band that was one consider to be musical rebels within metal were now looking AND talking corporate. All 4 band members even got hair cuts (which was the final blow to every metal fans that believes in the tradition of having long hair).

I think it was the dude from Skid Row that was talking shit about their haircuts. I forgot

his name but he was on Celebrity Fit Club last year with Bobby Brown.

Sebastian Bach. I didn't see the show but I surely heard he was on there.

[Edited 8/15/10 23:50pm]

I saw Metallica open for Ozzy in 1985 and I've been a hardcore fan ever since. Metallica's music was still Metallica until Load/Re-Load/S&M. Then things got all weird and stuff. I know some people thought they sold out on the Black Album, but I'm not one of them. That album rocks hard in the car, in the house and in the headphones. Plus, that tour was seriously ass-kicking! But when the came back after that with haircuts and makeup for Load I was all like, huh?! Thankfully they've found themselves in recent years.

I don't hold anything against Lars or Metallica for sueing Napster. Back then it was new and scary and very few people understood that the service it provided was going to play such a major role in the future distribution of music. There was no iTunes, or any other legal form of digital music distribution (to the best of my knowledge). A lot of artists felt the exactly same way Metallica did. But none of them were willing to push their fan bases as far as Metallica to try and protect their intellectual property (something all other artists are allowed to do without being given shit about it).

lastdecember said:

Selling out is simply doing something to be "down" but isnt what you want to do.

Probably this.

Of course, a lot of artists have subsequently duped themselves into believing they managed to maintain their artistic integrity in the process (mainstream hip hop artists are a good example). However, I can't really blame some for simply wanting to get enough money from their music so that they can continue to do it professionally. In that sense, many local-level artists that mainly live off gigging and release an occasional CD on the side would be "sellouts". You just can't necessarily afford doing artsy stuff if you want to make a living off your music.

Many established soul artists in the late-70s also did disco records, but they just had to adapt to their times. It's hard to judge whether or not they wanted to do that themselves - probably not - but some of that stuff can sound just okay still to this day.

I guess you can simply just smell a sell out when you see it.

Dewrede said:

selling out is changing your music style to the flavour of the month for financial gain

[Edited 8/15/10 18:22pm]

Exactly. I don't know why some orgers are trying to act like they don't know what it means...let's be for real. The above definition is exactly what the term means.

Notable Examples:

-When M.C. Hammer went the gangsta rap route to sell more records.

-When Lionel Ritchie went solo and forgot where he came from.

-I read somewhere that people felt that Rod Stewart became a sellout when he recorded the disco song "If You Think I'm Sexy".

-And somebody else already mentioned David Bowie...but I happen to like "Let's Dance"

[Edited 8/16/10 4:39am]

Timmy84 said:

Someone, I forgot who, said that they were also accused of being a sellout. His response was, "Yeah I'm selling out, I'm selling out records and concert tickets."

Wasn't it M.C. Hammer who said this?

missfee said:

Dewrede said:

selling out is changing your music style to the flavour of the month for financial gain

[Edited 8/15/10 18:22pm]

Exactly. I don't know why some orgers are trying to act like they don't know what it means...let's be for real. The above definition is exactly what the term means.

Notable Examples:

-When M.C. Hammer went the gangsta rap route to sell more records.

-When Lionel Ritchie went solo and forgot where he came from.

-I read somewhere that people felt that Rod Stewart became a sellout when he recorded the disco song "If You Think I'm Sexy".

-And somebody else already mentioned David Bowie...but I happen to like "Let's Dance"

[Edited 8/16/10 4:39am]

Exactly, that's what I said:

"Acts/bands/artists who embrace with open arms the sounds/production heard in the mainstream radio... many times the final product is uneven (I mean, bad, weak songs) but the album is successful just because it's usually well received by the mainstrem public..."

and Let's Dance is not a sellout for me; it was a pop album for sure, but it was an unique album, it was very different from the stuff released in 1983 (Synth-pop, Heartland-rock, Electro, New Romantic, etc.)...

But you can bet Tonight and Never Let Me Down were sellouts; the former was a crappy version of UB40/Spandau Ballet, and the latter just a loud and boring collection of late-80s cheese...hell, even some songs could have been featured in a Rick Astley album!!

Earthling was another sellout for me, with that jungle/techno/drum&bass crap

[Edited 8/16/10 10:50am]

missfee said:

Dewrede said:

selling out is changing your music style to the flavour of the month for financial gain

[Edited 8/15/10 18:22pm]

Exactly. I don't know why some orgers are trying to act like they don't know what it means...let's be for real. The above definition is exactly what the term means.

Notable Examples:

-When M.C. Hammer went the gangsta rap route to sell more records.

-When Lionel Ritchie went solo and forgot where he came from.

-I read somewhere that people felt that Rod Stewart became a sellout when he recorded the disco song "If You Think I'm Sexy".

-And somebody else already mentioned David Bowie...but I happen to like "Let's Dance"

[Edited 8/16/10 4:39am]

What about when Run DMC did a rap/rock record with Aerosmith?

angel345 said:

missfee said:

Exactly. I don't know why some orgers are trying to act like they don't know what it means...let's be for real. The above definition is exactly what the term means.

Notable Examples:

-When M.C. Hammer went the gangsta rap route to sell more records.

-When Lionel Ritchie went solo and forgot where he came from.

-I read somewhere that people felt that Rod Stewart became a sellout when he recorded the disco song "If You Think I'm Sexy".

-And somebody else already mentioned David Bowie...but I happen to like "Let's Dance"

[Edited 8/16/10 4:39am]

What about when Run DMC did a rap/rock record with Aerosmith?

I guess some people consider that a sell out, but I actually like the song.

FrenchGuy said:

I keep reading in many music forums about this or that artist "selling-out", "being a sellout" (in a negative way I think)... I'm not sure of the meaning of the expression.. Whats that supposed to mean?

Tiger Woods.

Graycap23 said:

FrenchGuy said:

I keep reading in many music forums about this or that artist "selling-out", "being a sellout" (in a negative way I think)... I'm not sure of the meaning of the expression.. Whats that supposed to mean?

Tiger Woods.

maybe as as spokesman, but so was Michael Jordan

As an "athlete" I don't think Tiger has let money impact his performance on the golf course. So as a golfer I definitely don't think he's a sellout.

[Edited 8/16/10 13:15pm]

NDRU said:

Graycap23 said:

Tiger Woods.

maybe as as spokesman, but so was Michael Jordan

As an athlete I don't think Tiger has let money impact his performance on the golf course. So as a golfer I definitely don't think he's a sellout.

I'm talking about as a "man".

Graycap23 said:

NDRU said:

maybe as as spokesman, but so was Michael Jordan

As an athlete I don't think Tiger has let money impact his performance on the golf course. So as a golfer I definitely don't think he's a sellout.

I'm talking about as a "man".

yeah that would be hard to dispute

Selling out is going for the easy success against what you know to be the right thing to do. Of course we can't truly judge others for selling out; only they know for sure if they've gone against their principles

I'd use Elvis as an example. He started out doing the music he loved, then found success as an "actor" and did countless successful movies that rank among the worst collection of any actor, and the worst phase of Elvis music.

It's easy to say he sold out because he turned his back on the bad movies & music once he recorded If I Can Dream, saying he'd never again sing a song he did not believe in, did a musical comeback, and focused on recording & performing for the rest of his life (though it seems he didn't quite get back to his peak except for that one moment in 1968)

missfee said:

Timmy84 said:

Someone, I forgot who, said that they were also accused of being a sellout. His response was, "Yeah I'm selling out, I'm selling out records and concert tickets."

Wasn't it M.C. Hammer who said this?

Hmm... I kinda remembered Hammer saying that.

NDRU said:

Selling out is going for the easy success against what you know to be the right thing to do. Of course we can't truly judge others for selling out; only they know for sure if they've gone against their principles

I'd use Elvis as an example. He started out doing the music he loved, then found success as an "actor" and did countless successful movies that rank among the worst collection of any actor, and the worst phase of Elvis music.

It's easy to say he sold out because he turned his back on the bad movies & music once he recorded If I Can Dream, saying he'd never again sing a song he did not believe in, did a musical comeback, and focused on recording & performing for the rest of his life (though it seems he didn't quite get back to his peak except for that one moment in 1968)

and 1969, and 1970, and 1971...after that, well...

JoeTyler said:

NDRU said:

Selling out is going for the easy success against what you know to be the right thing to do. Of course we can't truly judge others for selling out; only they know for sure if they've gone against their principles

I'd use Elvis as an example. He started out doing the music he loved, then found success as an "actor" and did countless successful movies that rank among the worst collection of any actor, and the worst phase of Elvis music.

It's easy to say he sold out because he turned his back on the bad movies & music once he recorded If I Can Dream, saying he'd never again sing a song he did not believe in, did a musical comeback, and focused on recording & performing for the rest of his life (though it seems he didn't quite get back to his peak except for that one moment in 1968)

and 1969, and 1970, and 1971...after that, well...

yeah he established a new style that peaked around 70 or so. After that you might say he sold out again as a Vegas act, but at the very least he was making records & performing again, which was what he was supposed to be doing.

NDRU said:

JoeTyler said:

and 1969, and 1970, and 1971...after that, well...

yeah he established a new style that peaked around 70 or so. After that you might say he sold out again as a Vegas act, but at the very least he was making records & performing again, which was what he was supposed to be doing.

yeah I also included the year 1971 because that's when he released I Was Born 10000 Years Ago, which is, for me, a lost country masterpiece and perhaps the album that TRULY reinvented & modernized country for the last decades of the 20th century, way before Dwight Yoakam or Garth Brooks...

but yeah, after 1972 he essentially sold out again, sort of, with the predictable tours and the huge number of cheesy ballads that plagued his last albums...

VoicesCarry said:

Who's that sweet angel??