mozfonky said:

it is wierd but that's ok, I guess I'm really, really a fan. I got furious when I'd see headlines and stories that called him a molestor or crazy. A seattle weekly called him "crazy brains" and made light of his death. That kind of shit immediatelly brings out my own hatred of white people, just makes me feel white people are often the most disrespectful race of people on earth. All the shit that they've done and they are the most judgemental.

it's white media, not white peop;e, and I'm not white for the record though the likes of Bill O Reilly and Nancy Grace just make me want to kick someone's ass I have turned so paranoid and guarded and HATE those words but sometimes when I hear about MJ now, I get very very paranoid that a joke or reference related to that is coming and it's so unfair to him, I could kill Evan for that if he didn't already do it to himself! And it hurts the most that all the people that were negative that I've shunned, all those bad moments are flashing through my head too as much as all the good mj moments in my life and I'm just filled with so much anger and rage and just feel like breaking something or trashing my room, I have never ever been this upset over losing anyone. This is the worst reaction I have ever had, and a lot of the time I don't feel it enough cause it's that bad and my body and mind work overtime to protect me and even try to fool me into thinking I'm over him when I'm really not. If I really was over, I wouldn't still be posting away and feeling miserable about what happened.

got anyone to talk too? there are a few people in that vein who I would personally beat up if I had the chance, Sneddon being the most obvious. Sounds fanatical but i don't care, its what some people deserve.

Alphastreet - MJ wouldn't want you to be sad in his passing but rather would want you to celebrate his life's work and cherish his legacy. The best way to pay respect to Michael isn't to mourn his loss, but to live his legacy by playing his music and receiving the joy it brings.

mozfonky said:

got anyone to talk too? there are a few people in that vein who I would personally beat up if I had the chance, Sneddon being the most obvious. Sounds fanatical but i don't care, its what some people deserve.

I hate feeling fanatical but I'm crazier than I thought. Though I'm mad at all those people, I'm more mad at society for ruining his good name, though I know those people are the ones who started it and deserve to rot for doing this! Even if he didn't do it, the damage has been done and I fucking hate it. Even if a lot of people I know like him, I am very paranoid cause of being let down in the past or opening up too much about how much I love him only to find that others don't see him as I do in a good light. I don't speak up anymore like before, I internalize it and get passive aggressive and around death time had to cut off people to keep sane cause I was ready to cause some chaos. I talk to a therapist but haven't about michael in awhile cause he didn't get it after awhile, I need to talk to him about my internal anger and how much damage it's doing to me.

Swa said:

Alphastreet - MJ wouldn't want you to be sad in his passing but rather would want you to celebrate his life's work and cherish his legacy. The best way to pay respect to Michael isn't to mourn his loss, but to live his legacy by playing his music and receiving the joy it brings.

his soul wherever it is has moved on and hates me anyway, it doesn't matter I do celebrate him and have done it on good nights or parties, but it's all the past burdens that went unresolved within me that are keeping me from it and the fact I'm denial about how he passed. I wish I could recieve joy from it, I really do, but all the things about it that gave me joy, they have turned into the complete opposite right now with me feeling bitter and it's so unfair to him when he has given me so much joy for a very long time in my life. It's like I'm too hurt to let him into my heart though he already has it.

why would his soul hate you?

cause of being angry with him sometimes he doesn't deserve this venom from me, I know I don't mean it, it's just how I'm dealing cause I'm so hurt from being hurt and wish I could run from the grief. The real person I'm mad with is no one but myself for getting too attached in the first place, though I understand why he became an addiction to some degree.

well, actually, i don't think mike had it in him to truly hate anyone, much less a fan.

mozfonky said:

well, actually, i don't think mike had it in him to truly hate anyone, much less a fan.

yeah that is true, he wouldn't hurt a bug, as HIStory tour in Munich proved I can't believe he couldn't hate the accusers either, like WTF? He was too nice for his own good but probably took on so many burdens, very much like myself in my own life.

and sometimes I think God is angry with me for focusing too much on all this when I do try to pray about it but have trouble with concentration and still being stuck on how much I was crying and praying everyday for him to be okay 5-7 years ago and having his back in public though I took a few bullets for him.

[Edited 8/16/10 21:22pm]

which brings up another point. He is an inspiration in tolerance, rarely uttering an angry word or vindictive in any way. for me, I have a huge character flaw with being wronged. It's terrible but I never forgive anyone who ever wrongs me. So we have Michael who easily could have felt and talked that way all the time, yet he rarely did. If I got my head burned because someone fucked up, and I still didn't take a penny from pepsi for myself but gave it to charity and pepsi dumped me, I'd be crazy with bitterness. Not Mike, even though the burn was the very beginning of cracks in his world. Did he ever learn to really distrust children? No, he goes on tv with them. Mike was smart, if he really was guilty I doubt if he'd let that happen. Someday, for better or worse we will all get the truth. Those kids will come out eventually and say what happened, maybe when they themselves are on their deathbeds.

mozfonky said:

which brings up another point. He is an inspiration in tolerance, rarely uttering an angry word or vindictive in any way. for me, I have a huge character flaw with being wronged. It's terrible but I never forgive anyone who ever wrongs me. So we have Michael who easily could have felt and talked that way all the time, yet he rarely did. If I got my head burned because someone fucked up, and I still didn't take a penny from pepsi for myself but gave it to charity and pepsi dumped me, I'd be crazy with bitterness. Not Mike, even though the burn was the very beginning of cracks in his world. Did he ever learn to really distrust children? No, he goes on tv with them. Mike was smart, if he really was guilty I doubt if he'd let that happen. Someday, for better or worse we will all get the truth. Those kids will come out eventually and say what happened, maybe when they themselves are on their deathbeds.

Yeah that's how me and michael differ, I'm very vindictive and unforgiving cause I got too tired of being nice and a good human being, and feel bad all the time cause he is a great example of not changing being nice just cause he was wronged many times. And though he was so sweet to kids and I was touched by that when I was younger, for some time I just got so angry about it cause for awhile I was mad at him for getting into another mess, but I'm over that and I'm mad at those who wronged him like Sneddon, Chandlers, Bashir etc. and so forth even more for turning him into a punchline and ruining his reputation. It was just so cruel and he would have still been here with us had they not put him through it.

[Edited 8/16/10 21:33pm]

mozfonky said:

well, actually, i don't think mike had it in him to truly hate anyone, much less a fan.

Michael never lost faith in humanity I don't think. He didn't leave this world bitter.

aw timmy, I was remembering that performance a little while ago, thanks and yeah I hate how people say he was miserable at the end of his life. He knew what he wanted from a young age and left doing what he was meant to do with those sold out shows even if none took place. I don't understand how people said he died and became a legend when he already was one from his teen years, phenomenal talent and those record sales being top 3 with Elvis and Beatles, which is a whole other topic

I really have learned so much from him, even try to keep in mind what he would have said if I'm asked about something though I'm realizing I have my own identity too.

I feel bad that I couldn't show my love for him and many others couldn't but I have no control over that. I think he was aware that he had fans out here who truly loved him. Like, right now, I regret that Muhammad Ali, possibly my biggest hero, will die without me ever meeting and showing him how much I love him. In fact, that was one of the questions I asked myself when Mike passed, "how am I going to deal with Muhammad dying?" But Ali knows people he will never meet love him and why. I can't meet him, he's an old man now, guarded and secluded in his illness.

You meant couldn't show love or feel love in person to him right? That is a huge part of why I'm grieving cause I would watch him and get a rush over the possibility one day and that is cut off now, even though in the beginning that didn't matter and I wanted him back, period. I'm over that now but it still feels empty though he is still amazing on tape and with all that talent, he was just so full of life and I even used to wonder if he was real or all an illusion this whole time

I've never really met any of my heroes, i've met famous kickboxers, mma champions, spike lee, Sherman Alexie, but never really met a hero of mine's. Those people have lots of demands on their time and one would have to do crazy shit just to get close to them and I can't do that.

mozfonky said:

I've never really met any of my heroes, i've met famous kickboxers, mma champions, spike lee, Sherman Alexie, but never really met a hero of mine's. Those people have lots of demands on their time and one would have to do crazy shit just to get close to them and I can't do that.

I guess I was spoiled then cause I saw Janet Jackson more than once and spoke to her briefly and that gave me hope that if I saw her, I will see him, and she is one of my heros too. And I've seen tons of other celebs too in person or been to shows. I was bashing myself for being a spoiled brat too cause I almost did see Michael at his shows and it felt like a final wish come true that was snatched from me and made it much worse than if there were no shows, even though that was not the immediate feeling at all upon learning about what happened and it hit me later.

I don't know much about what happened to muhammed cause he was before my time, but I do know he is held in high regard overall and someone I know has a framed pic of him in their living room.

[Edited 8/16/10 22:22pm]

alphastreet said:

mozfonky said:

I've never really met any of my heroes, i've met famous kickboxers, mma champions, spike lee, Sherman Alexie, but never really met a hero of mine's. Those people have lots of demands on their time and one would have to do crazy shit just to get close to them and I can't do that.

I guess I was spoiled then cause I saw Janet Jackson more than once and spoke to her briefly and that gave me hope that if I saw her, I will see him, and she is one of my heros too. And I've seen tons of other celebs too in person or been to shows. I was bashing myself for being a spoiled brat too cause I almost did see Michael at his shows and it felt like a final wish come true that was snatched from me and made it much worse than if there were no shows, even though that was not the immediate feeling at all upon learning about what happened and it hit me later.

I don't know much about what happened to muhammed cause he was before my time, but I do know he is held in high regard overall and someone I know has a framed pic of him in their living room.

[Edited 8/16/10 22:22pm]

Muhammad was michael's only real rival as most famous person on earth and may have still been more recognizable via his Muslim connection. However, he is another who, in old age, is left alone but who if he were still vital would have been attacked long ago. As it is, much of the american public will always hate him for not going into the army. Just another black man who's rep was partly tarnished.

mozfonky said:

alphastreet said:

I guess I was spoiled then cause I saw Janet Jackson more than once and spoke to her briefly and that gave me hope that if I saw her, I will see him, and she is one of my heros too. And I've seen tons of other celebs too in person or been to shows. I was bashing myself for being a spoiled brat too cause I almost did see Michael at his shows and it felt like a final wish come true that was snatched from me and made it much worse than if there were no shows, even though that was not the immediate feeling at all upon learning about what happened and it hit me later.

I don't know much about what happened to muhammed cause he was before my time, but I do know he is held in high regard overall and someone I know has a framed pic of him in their living room.

[Edited 8/16/10 22:22pm]

Muhammad was michael's only real rival as most famous person on earth and may have still been more recognizable via his Muslim connection. However, he is another who, in old age, is left alone but who if he were still vital would have been attacked long ago. As it is, much of the american public will always hate him for not going into the army. Just another black man who's rep was partly tarnished.

pardon my ignorance, but that sounds so stupid, he was a boxer and a champion with wisdom, nothing to do with war and politics, why expect that of him in the first place?

alphastreet said:

I'm more mad at society for ruining his good name.

Take solace in the fact that in his passing, the world realised (too late) what a gift he was and what he meant. This was evident in the universal shock and massive outpouring of love. This also made a lot of people do some serious soul searching about how they treated and (mis)judged him and motivated them to make a change. So for many his passing spurred on a desire to restore his good name.

Swa said:

alphastreet said:

I'm more mad at society for ruining his good name.

Take solace in the fact that in his passing, the world realised (too late) what a gift he was and what he meant. This was evident in the universal shock and massive outpouring of love. This also made a lot of people do some serious soul searching about how they treated and (mis)judged him and motivated them to make a change. So for many his passing spurred on a desire to restore his good name.

yeah it is good that he's being given sympathy and being recognized and all that now and I am very grateful for it, but at the same time it's like a culture shock and alternate universe in a way. I know he didn't belong to anyone, but for the longest time, it felt like he was ours, and now he's the world's and even though we wanted this, it wasn't supposed to be in such a tragic way And I also take solace that I had so many good mj moments all throughout the years even during the bad times, I always got lucky and met huge fans before joining online communities and getting footage easily or being in the right place and time to enjoy mj around other people. I'm angry at some people in my life for being mean to him and am too anxious to talk to them about it and it's eating away at me, I want to forgive, but I can't

[Edited 8/16/10 23:12pm]

alphastreet said:

mozfonky said:

Muhammad was michael's only real rival as most famous person on earth and may have still been more recognizable via his Muslim connection. However, he is another who, in old age, is left alone but who if he were still vital would have been attacked long ago. As it is, much of the american public will always hate him for not going into the army. Just another black man who's rep was partly tarnished.

pardon my ignorance, but that sounds so stupid, he was a boxer and a champion with wisdom, nothing to do with war and politics, why expect that of him in the first place?

it's just a fact of life for black men in america who achieve that level of notoriety, all you have to do is check. Character assasination started right from the first black superman, Jack Johnson, and went on to Paul Robeson, on and on and on. If they didn't fit where white people wanted them there would be hell to pay. All to take away the power of the symbol to the entire black populations, that simple. Anyway, Ali and the Jackson's have a wonderful interview on youtube from the 70's, Mike looking like he's with family with his hand unselfconsciously on muhammads leg.

mozfonky said:

alphastreet said:

pardon my ignorance, but that sounds so stupid, he was a boxer and a champion with wisdom, nothing to do with war and politics, why expect that of him in the first place?

it's just a fact of life for black men in america who achieve that level of notoriety, all you have to do is check. Character assasination started right from the first black superman, Jack Johnson, and went on to Paul Robeson, on and on and on. If they didn't fit where white people wanted them there would be hell to pay. All to take away the power of the symbol to the entire black populations, that simple. Anyway, Ali and the Jackson's have a wonderful interview on youtube from the 70's, Mike looking like he's with family with his hand unselfconsciously on muhammads leg.

yeah it's really sad what was done to them and cause we witnessed mj in this lifetime and how larger than life he was, I can only hope he doesn't suffer the same fate anymore and puts a stop to the cycle, cause he was too good. I've heard of that interview, it sounds sweet, I may have seen the pic awhile back.

My heart goes out to you alphastreet. I remember how it felt as a teenager to be bullied for liking

Michael Jackson during the allegations and all that drama. I use to get made fun for wearing MJ shirts and all that. And it was a bitch. And then Michael passed away and the haters (a lot of them) were suddenly on the bandwagon of Michael being a great performer. However, it doesn't change the fact that it all came out of nowhere and it seems phony. Why couldn't these people have been such diehard fans June 24th?

I want to end on a positive note. I was talking to a woman whose daughter is 13, and she wears Michael Jackson shirts and even has a MJ purse. His music is always playing and her Mom said, all her friends are always playing Michael's songs. His music truly will live forever and so will all our memories. Be thankful we were able to live in a time when Michael was alive. We (his fans) were able to be touched by what he did in life (and get to hear his replies of "I love you more.") and even though he may not be here in physical form, his spirit lives on and continues inside all of his fans, his kids, his friends, and the music that is yet to come after his passing. Magic is forever. Like that quote in Tuesdays with Morrie, "A life ends but a relationship doesn't have to" or something. The truth is Michael had a special relationship with his fans. He meant something to every one of us. And just because he is gone, doesn't mean what he meant to us, and what we (his fans) meant to him. The fact is...HE LOVED HIS FANS. HE LOVED US. That will never die. Always is love. Goodnight all.

Sorry for adding more later but I felt compelled.

[Edited 8/16/10 23:53pm]

Vanilli said:

My heart goes out to you alphastreet. I remember how it felt as a teenager to be bullied for liking

Michael Jackson during the allegations and all that drama. I use to get made fun for wearing MJ shirts and all that. And it was a bitch. And then Michael passed away and the haters (a lot of them) were suddenly on the bandwagon of Michael being a great performer. However, it doesn't change the fact that it all came out of nowhere and it seems phony. Why couldn't these people have been such diehard fans June 24th?

I want to end on a positive note. I was talking to a woman whose daughter is 13, and she wears Michael Jackson shirts and even has a MJ purse. His music is always playing and her Mom said, all her friends are always playing Michael's songs. His music truly will live forever and so will all our memories. Be thankful we were able to live in a time when Michael was alive to be touched by what he did in life and continues to do after his passing.

aw reading that makes me smile, I love when kids are into him, it's so sweet, but it also takes me back to different points in my life, before becoming a fan and after becoming a fan if I had an mj moment associated with that age. I don't remember a time I didn't know he existed or was somewhere out there.

I sometimes regret not sticking up at sometimes though other times I did when I decided not to be a coward anymore, and I'm the kind who laughs even if I'm upset and then cries it out later or gets passive aggressive. Other than that, I did have very good memories with peers too of enjoying his music, even after 93', being oblivious to all of it, maybe cause I was younger or just didn't care cause I didn't believe it and did not recall any news coverage unlike 2003 at all (kept well from it). I do feel a little bit better, and wanted to thank you guys for putting up with me tonight, it really helps to talk about it and relating back.

[Edited 8/16/10 23:29pm]

damn i tried to embed, too complicated.[youtube]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/...;<param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/...p;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/youtube]

[Edited 8/16/10 23:50pm]

mozfonky said:

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thanks man

lmao timmy

thanks for posting the clips