Cinnie said:

Michael Jackson was selling out later on too, but something tells me he would have had new jams in store.

Given that the album Invincible was Michael's first and only f***-up (despite selling 7 million copies BEFORE his death), I think a part of him wanted to redeem himself. But it's hard to tell what could have been if his only choose of producers at the time were Teddy Riley, will.i.am, & Ne-Yo. and believe me, I was never convince that Ne-Yo's production skills were going to be great for Michael.

Just saying.

TonyVanDam said:

Cinnie said:

Michael Jackson was selling out later on too, but something tells me he would have had new jams in store.

Given that the album Invincible was Michael's first and only f***-up (despite selling 7 million copies BEFORE his death), I think a part of him wanted to redeem himself. But it's hard to tell what could have been if his only choose of producers at the time were Teddy Riley, will.i.am, & Ne-Yo. and believe me, I was never convince that Ne-Yo's production skills were going to be great for Michael.

Just saying.

Thriller was MJ's wildest dream come true and his Frankenstein come to life. He had three killer albums in a row with Quincy and should have stuck with Quincy, with guest shots from other producers along the way. Like his sister, he outsmarted himself when it came to going in a new direction.

TonyVanDam said:

Cinnie said:

Michael Jackson was selling out later on too, but something tells me he would have had new jams in store.

Given that the album Invincible was Michael's first and only f***-up (despite selling 7 million copies BEFORE his death), I think a part of him wanted to redeem himself. But it's hard to tell what could have been if his only choose of producers at the time were Teddy Riley, will.i.am, & Ne-Yo. and believe me, I was never convince that Ne-Yo's production skills were going to be great for Michael.

Just saying.

will.i.am's production is good but his songwriting is weak.. I think that's where MJ could have helped, jam-wise.

Well obviously if one is gonna "bring back the funk", don't fall to commercial b.s., and get attention through a grassroots online movement since the physical compartment is falling apart a bit. And continue to PUSH the music to the people WHO wanna hear it.

Timmy84 said:

Well obviously if one is gonna "bring back the funk", don't fall to commercial b.s., and get attention through a grassroots online movement since the physical compartment is falling apart a bit. And continue to PUSH the music to the people WHO wanna hear it.

That's a bit of an oxymoron

Funk isn't mainstream so it would be hard 2B commercial if U R throwing down/

minneapolisFunq said:

Timmy84 said:

Well obviously if one is gonna "bring back the funk", don't fall to commercial b.s., and get attention through a grassroots online movement since the physical compartment is falling apart a bit. And continue to PUSH the music to the people WHO wanna hear it.

That's a bit of an oxymoron

Funk isn't mainstream so it would be hard 2B commercial if U R throwing down/

In the '70s it was... a little lol

Its going to happen sooner than you think. The next generation of children is going to see through this bs becacause theres so little to it. Theyre already getting less and less self concious and fiercly individual. Mark my words, maybe not next week or next year, but you will see the freak flagg fly again. Thsee cookie cutter, marginal acts and the pimps that control them will run their course. Prince was so right about disposable music but he was also right about whats coming.

phunkdaddy said:

Timmy84 said:

Nice bassline in that song.

More so in this song than the Spice Girls example. The Spice Girls example

sounds more like Madonna house music in the 90's.

What about this one?

Last Time Lover

Something Kinda Funny also was funky..

[Edited 8/5/10 23:18pm]

paisleypark4 said:

the late eighties

I'd say that real funk had died off well before the late eighties

LoveIsTheMessage said:

paisleypark4 said:

the late eighties

I'd say that real funk had died off well before the late eighties

That is completely untrue.

I can pull out a handful of jams from 86-90

Reel said:

jiorjios said:

Although your arguments can be very true, I dislike reading music analysis in racial terms... to the question now... funk won't make a comeback because it is considered retro. There were revivals of old sounds the past decade or so but all of them were very short. It also demands talent and that's in short supply today (I am talking about popular music).

PS all the discussion about hip-hop is besides the point because hip-hop is dying... Unfortunately what seems to take its place (the David Guetta-type of dance music) is about 50 times worse. What is gonna happen hopefully is that in a few years time hip-hop music will become so commercially unattractive that all the sh*t acts which destroyed it will move to dance music (It is already happening with Usher, Flo Rida, Black Eyed Peas etc) and that will leave the room clear for the ones really liking R&B/hip-hop/funk/reggae and the like and not just the cash and money it brings to finally develop it further underground so it can make a commercial comeback in a decade's time. It won't be funk and it won't be hip-hop but it would be definitely something funky because the problem with R&B/Hip-hop the last decade was that it overstayed its time not growing and not becoming less prominent. Now that it is dying as a commercial powerhouse, it can finally move on.

I can understand that it may be uncomfortable for you and others to read music being analyzed in racial terms. However one would have to be an ostrich with his / her head in the sand to not see that race plays a significant role in what gets played, and the longevity of the music genre being played. As well as it's distribution to the masses. There have been artist who have had their careers die a suffocating death because they lacked "cross over" appeal and was only played on "black stations". In order to get a more mainstream audience many artists felt the need to water their music down so that it could have more of a crossover appeal.

In addition there have been SOME non-black artist who have made feeble attempts at recreating the sound of certain genre's such as Funk and they perhaps unknowingly contributed to the music swirling away from it's authentic sound.

Yeah but on the other hand the watering down thing does not happen just with black (for lack of a better word) music but also with white music... Rock has been influenced by rap and country has been watered down significantly too (Taylor Swift anyone?). It is not as if what u r describing happens only to traditionally black genres, it happens to white genres as well which are also going downhill (albeit without becoming more popular than they were traditionally)... so all this talk about music in racial terms seems to me one-dimensional since it ignores that music across all spectrum seems to be much worse than it once was. I am sure that the same discussion about how crap music is nowadays and how it is better to dig in the vaults to find things to listen to can be made and it is being made by rock/indie/country fans as well

[Edited 8/6/10 1:45am]

[Edited 8/6/10 1:46am]

PFunkjazz said:

Timmy84 said:

Oh lol

But still I think even some of the funk legends have forgotten there are ways to get it out. It may not go into the mainstream market then again I wouldn't want them to. Just present it on YouTube or on their site or just sell it online or whatever.

In a way I can KINDA see what he's talking about, but I rather people stop talking and just DO, you know?

Bringing funk to SoCal for 2010 once again,
"Sustaining Our Future Through Funk"
SATURDAY AUGUST 7, 2010 downtown Long Beach, CA
***FREE*** to the public
All ages
Green-driven sustainable festival
Solar powered stages

-with Rickey Vincent as MC (author of "Funk: The Music, the People, and the Rhythm of the One")

:and a bunch of more funkgoodies:

Spread the word man

Rickey = dat dude His book is a funkbible ... highly recommended + he has his own academy : The Funk School

BlaqueKnight said:

Militant said:

GTFO with that "people aren't writing songs with basslines" shit!

The bassguitar-sound used in there reminds me of the bass in MJG's "Boys" (performed by either Rick or Allen McGrier)

A tv-show appearance :

One can only wish 4 such things.

minneapolisFunq said:

LoveIsTheMessage said:

I'd say that real funk had died off well before the late eighties

That is completely untrue.

I can pull out a handful of jams from 86-90

Yeah it officially died in about 1991..when synth-funk became New Jack Swing. But I have to admit..what do we call this new type of r&b dance music that has been coming out with heavy synths and uptempo drum patterns? It is not exactly funk, but it is highly pop...a new sounding pop. Somebody To Love - Just Beiber Omg - Usher California Girls - Katy Perry Rockin 2 The Beat - BEP stuff by Florida Million Dollar Girl - Trina ...

paisleypark4 said:

phunkdaddy said:

More so in this song than the Spice Girls example. The Spice Girls example

sounds more like Madonna house music in the 90's.

What about this one?

Last Time Lover

Something Kinda Funny also was funky..

[Edited 8/5/10 23:18pm]

1. The bassline in Last Time Lover is a good one, even if the track is downtempo.

2. Something Kinda Funny is a straight up Frankie Beverly & Maze rip-off with a CHIC-like rhythm guitar in the mix! I like this track better.

Shango said:

PFunkjazz said:

Bringing funk to SoCal for 2010 once again,
"Sustaining Our Future Through Funk"
SATURDAY AUGUST 7, 2010 downtown Long Beach, CA
***FREE*** to the public
All ages
Green-driven sustainable festival
Solar powered stages

-with Rickey Vincent as MC (author of "Funk: The Music, the People, and the Rhythm of the One")

:and a bunch of more funkgoodies:

Spread the word man

Rickey = dat dude His book is a funkbible ... highly recommended + he has his own academy : The Funk School

I read that book many of nights.

paisleypark4 said:

minneapolisFunq said:

That is completely untrue.

I can pull out a handful of jams from 86-90

Yeah it officially died in about 1991..when synth-funk became New Jack Swing. But I have to admit..what do we call this new type of r&b dance music that has been coming out with heavy synths and uptempo drum patterns? It is not exactly funk, but it is highly pop...a new sounding pop. Somebody To Love - Just Beiber Omg - Usher California Girls - Katy Perry Rockin 2 The Beat - BEP stuff by Florida Million Dollar Girl - Trina ...

Here in the USA, that was actually 1988.

I remember it was around that time that Guy, Keith Sweat, Johnny Kemp, & Al B. Sure took turns debuting the gerne that would be known as New Jack Swing. Bobby Brown would have THE biggest hit from that genre with My Prerogative.

I also remember that Rick James, Prince, Roger/Zapp, Midnight Star, & Cameo were THE only funk acts of their generation left standing, each of them going through a musical transition. The younger bands like Full Force, Ready For The World, & E.U. were stuck in the middle of a Funk vs. New Jack Swing crossfire.

I also remember it was the year that hip-hop/rap culture was in the first year of its REAL silver-age (1988-1993). Dance-pop, Chicago House, Detriot Techno, & Latin Freestyle had already begun to dominate the club-dance scene.

[Edited 8/6/10 11:39am]

paisleypark4 said:

what do we call this new type of r&b dance music that has been coming out with heavy synths and uptempo drum patterns? It is not exactly funk, but it is highly pop...a new sounding pop. Somebody To Love - Just Beiber Omg - Usher California Girls - Katy Perry Rockin 2 The Beat - BEP stuff by Florida Million Dollar Girl - Trina ...

To me, that's just dance/pop. Like Paula Abdul did.

minneapolisFunq said:

LoveIsTheMessage said:

I'd say that real funk had died off well before the late eighties

That is completely untrue.

I can pull out a handful of jams from 86-90

Come on, kid. There are many of us on here who were actually around DURING THE TIME THE MUSIC WAS HAPPENING. How are you going to argue with us on that? You weren' there.

R&B was just considered R&B, not funk. Also, rap was coming about and gaining popularity, so groups like the Jonzun Crew , Twilight 22 and Soulsonic Force were being mixed in with the R&B of the current time. Everybody was playing with synth sounds. MN funk is a watered down hybrid of what actual funk was in the 70s. Was it cool? Hell yes. Was it pure funk? Hell no. In the late 80s, R&B was experimental but funk as a genre had pretty much died off.

[Edited 8/6/10 10:04am]

The Second Annual LBFF2 MotherShuttle is stocked with PFunk Alumni and ready to launch!

Dawn Silva, Jeanette Washington Perkins - vocals
Dewayne Blackbyrd Mcknight - guitars
Jeff Cherokee Bunn - bass
Barrry Chenault - drums
Greg Thomas - saxes

Plus Eric Levy - keys, Novena Carmel and Sue Ann Carwell - vocals

Oh Mother PFunk!
We gonna turn that mutha O U T!!!!

[Edited 8/6/10 11:27am]

PFunkjazz said:

The Second Annual LBFF2 MotherShuttle is stocked with PFunk Alumni and ready to launch!

Dawn Silva, Jeanette Washington Perkins - vocals
Dewayne Blackbyrd Mcknight - guitars
Jeff Cherokee Bunn - bass
...Barrry Chenault - drums
Greg Thomas - saxes
Plus Eric Levy - keys, Novena Carmel and Sue Ann Carwell - vocals

Oh Mother PFunk!
We gonna turn that mutha O U T!!!!

When & Where?

BlaqueKnight said:

minneapolisFunq said:

That is completely untrue.

I can pull out a handful of jams from 86-90

Come on, kid. There are many of us on here who were actually around DURING THE TIME THE MUSIC WAS HAPPENING. How are you going to argue with us on that? You weren' there.

The real funk HAD died off by the mid 80s. Of course people can pull a few exceptions out - there are always exceptions. Funk was not what was happeneing in the mid to late80s. Pince himself was trying to get as far away from funk as possible; especially after Purple Rain. 60 and 70s funk, aka the JB funk, aka the REAL DEAL, was not where black music was in the mid to late 80s. There were still traces and there were still songs with funky elements to them but the slap bass, funky horn sections and big ass band sound was replaced by synths. Much of the R&B music then was experimentation with synth sounds.

R&B was just considered R&B, not funk. Also, rap was coming about and gaining popularity, so groups like the Jonzun Crew , Twilight 22 and Soulsonic Force were being mixed in with the R&B of the current time. Everybody was playing with synth sounds. MN funk is a watered down hybrid of what actual funk was in the 70s. Was it cool? Hell yes. Was it pure funk? Hell no. In the late 80s, R&B was experimental but funk as a genre had pretty much died off.

[Edited 8/6/10 10:04am]

What you said is the absolute truth. As a musician of funk/pop/dance music from that era, funk was considered as too hardcore and it didn't have the crossover appeal that we were looking for in order to cross-over to the "white radio stations"- in order to make REAL money. The biggest acts of the eighties such as Prince, Michael, Lionel Richie,EWF, Kool and the Gang, and even Stevie were abandoning the funk inorder to obtain a greater appeal with the masses and the much bigger payoff as well! With that, the emphasis changed from bands to solo artists, which has by now resulted in the lack of, or shortage of, Black musicians that want to play guitar, bass, horns, drums, and keys to a lesser extent.........

Funk is dead?

Are you kidding me?

Funk has never left ... In fact, today, there are more Funk bands out there than ever before. Between '67 and '71, the most productive era in Funk, was an American phenomen. Very few groups outside of the U.S. were hip to Funk.

But today, because of the internet and globalization, the Funk scene went global. It's a tight knit network of DJs, record collectors, producers and - yes - artists. Today, there are groups in Norway, Sweden, Germany, France, Japan, Australia and even Israel and Russia that play Funk, record Funk and release Funk records. Funk is more alive and kickin' on a global scale than it was ever before.

Y'all are making the mistake to look for Funk in mainstream music. But Funk isn't mainstream .. or it wouldn't be called Funk. This music has always been underground .. most Funk artists never broke into the mainstream, most made only a few records that were sold only on a local level.

When a few Funk groups broke into the mainstream in the early to mid-1970s, the climax of the pioneer days of Funk were long over. Most Funk records were recorded and released in the late 1960s, not the mid-to 1970s or 1980s.

So don't look in the mainstream, because once it's mainstream, it's usually not Funk. Some new Funk artists still enjoy mainstream success - like Sharon Jones & The Dap-Kings, who charted at #15 on Billboard with their new album in April. Even though this was more of a Soul album, make no mistake. This band is a Funk band.

If you want Funk, look in the underground, where it has always been and where it belongs. And you'll find that Funk is very much alive today. In fact, as a Funk DJ, I can hardly keep up with new releases. There is so much new music that Funk DJs can't even play all of it.

TonyVanDam said:

I also remember that Rick James, Prince, Roger/Zapp, Midnight Star, & Cameo were THE only funk acts of their generation left standing, each of them going through a musical transition. The younger bands like Full Force, Ready For The World, & E.U. were stuck in the middle of a Funk vs. New Jack Swing crossfire.

Ready For The World in particular STRAIGHT UP changed their style to New Jack Swing with that 1988 album "Ruff N' Ready" - especially with the first single from that album, "My Girly".

MrSoulpower said:

Y'all are making the mistake to look for Funk in mainstream music. But Funk isn't mainstream .. or it wouldn't be called Funk. This music has always been underground .. most Funk artists never broke into the mainstream, most made only a few records that were sold only on a local level.

When a few Funk groups broke into the mainstream in the early to mid-1970s, the climax of the pioneer days of Funk were long over. Most Funk records were recorded and released in the late 1960s, not the mid-to 1970s or 1980s.

So don't look in the mainstream, because once it's mainstream, it's usually not Funk. Some new Funk artists still enjoy mainstream success - like Sharon Jones & The Dap-Kings, who charted at #15 on Billboard with their new album in April. Even though this was more of a Soul album, make no mistake. This band is a Funk band.

If you want Funk, look in the underground, where it has always been and where it belongs. And you'll find that Funk is very much alive today. In fact, as a Funk DJ, I can hardly keep up with new releases. There is so much new music that Funk DJs can't even play all of it.

It's really fucking amazing you bring this up.

I've been spamming the LONG BEACH FUNK FEST for months and

the donut holes around here just guffawed like idiots while lavishing praise on pop idols and gossip.

It's all cool I don't wanna come off like a grumpy old man, but

use half an oz of your brain and acknowledge this mutha funkin' lineup,

cuz IT'S PROOF FUNK AIN'T DEAD!!!

[Edited 8/6/10 13:10pm]

/\ random question, but is Billy Nunn from Stone City Band the brother of Bobby Nunn who did "She's Just A Groupie"? I seem to remember that Bobby had some Rick James affiliation or maybe Rick worked on Bobby's record or something.

Militant said:

/\ random question, but is Billy Nunn from Stone City Band the brother of Bobby Nunn who did "She's Just A Groupie"? I seem to remember that Bobby had some Rick James affiliation or maybe Rick worked on Bobby's record or something.

Yeah I thought you knew.

That's a great lineup by the way.

PFunkjazz said:

MrSoulpower said:

Y'all are making the mistake to look for Funk in mainstream music. But Funk isn't mainstream .. or it wouldn't be called Funk. This music has always been underground .. most Funk artists never broke into the mainstream, most made only a few records that were sold only on a local level.

When a few Funk groups broke into the mainstream in the early to mid-1970s, the climax of the pioneer days of Funk were long over. Most Funk records were recorded and released in the late 1960s, not the mid-to 1970s or 1980s.

So don't look in the mainstream, because once it's mainstream, it's usually not Funk. Some new Funk artists still enjoy mainstream success - like Sharon Jones & The Dap-Kings, who charted at #15 on Billboard with their new album in April. Even though this was more of a Soul album, make no mistake. This band is a Funk band.

If you want Funk, look in the underground, where it has always been and where it belongs. And you'll find that Funk is very much alive today. In fact, as a Funk DJ, I can hardly keep up with new releases. There is so much new music that Funk DJs can't even play all of it.

It's really fucking amazing you bring this up.

I've been spamming the LONG BEACH FUNK FEST for months and

the donut holes around here just guffawed like idiots while lavishing praise on pop idols and gossip.

It's all cool I don't wanna come off like a grumpy old man, but

use half an oz of your brain and acknowledge this mutha funkin' lineup,

cuz IT'S PROOF FUNK AIN'T DEAD!!!

Absolutely. And the Long Beach Funk Fest is just one of many such events. Funk will never die.

However, musically/creatively Funk is pretty much in a dead end .. the music hardly evolves because everything has been said in done. Just like Jazz. But who cares? I'm happy with Funk the way it is ... I don't even listen to 80s Funk. I love my Funk old and dirty, and that's how most of the new groups play it.

I take all forms of funk: '60s, '70s, early '80s.

It's all funk to me.