TonyVanDam said:

The main reason why hip-hop/r&b is such a f***ing joke of a genre is because this very genre was NEVER allow to grow the hell up like the other genres did. Funk grew up. Rock/Metal grew up. Jazz grew up. Electronic grew up to become a parent AND grandparent of other electronic genres.

And since hip-hop/r&b is NOT allow to grow up, it time of this genre to die once and for all. Rap can live on through The Funk and other genres. I rather for this to happen than to put up with anymore rhythmless bullshit.

Today's hip-hop is built on no more than five records:

The Chronic

Straight Outta Compton

Ready to Die

All Eyez On Me

Only Built For Cuban Linx

It and the mainstream black music scene it dominates built around only one of the 3 or 4 main food groups in hip-hop (which could be, depending on who you talk to, radical, abstract, party, gangsta). It has a grotesque fascination with life on the edge ("Listen to me! I could die just like Tupac and Biggie!)

Hip-hop won't be allowed to grow up because it's cheap to produce and gives so many rappers with moderate or no talent the chance to hit it big. Plus, there's never been another genre of music where the listener pays to be insulted.

Like Jimmy Breslin said of New York in Summer of Sam, I love and hate hip-hop equally. It's in a state of arrested development (no pun intended).

namepeace said:

TonyVanDam said:

The main reason why hip-hop/r&b is such a f***ing joke of a genre is because this very genre was NEVER allow to grow the hell up like the other genres did. Funk grew up. Rock/Metal grew up. Jazz grew up. Electronic grew up to become a parent AND grandparent of other electronic genres.

And since hip-hop/r&b is NOT allow to grow up, it time of this genre to die once and for all. Rap can live on through The Funk and other genres. I rather for this to happen than to put up with anymore rhythmless bullshit.

Today's hip-hop is built on no more than five records:

The Chronic

Straight Outta Compton

Ready to Die

All Eyez On Me

Only Built For Cuban Linx

It and the mainstream black music scene it dominates built around only one of the 3 or 4 main food groups in hip-hop (which could be, depending on who you talk to, radical, abstract, party, gangsta). It has a grotesque fascination with life on the edge ("Listen to me! I could die just like Tupac and Biggie!)

Hip-hop won't be allowed to grow up because it's cheap to produce and gives so many rappers with moderate or no talent the chance to hit it big. Plus, there's never been another genre of music where the listener pays to be insulted.

Like Jimmy Breslin said of New York in Summer of Sam, I love and hate hip-hop equally. It's in a state of arrested development (no pun intended).

The irony of it all is that those 5 albums (especially The Chronic) were built upon with funk samples AND classic r&b/soul samples.

TonyVanDam said:

The irony of it all is that those 5 albums (especially The Chronic) were built upon with funk samples AND classic r&b/soul samples.

Why dig into the crates when Dre, Easy Mo Bee and RZA already did it for you, right?

step 1 - pass out funk pills at every Ga Ga, Rhianna, Drake, Lil Wayne, and Justin Bieber concert for the next months. force fans to eat it at gun point. the effect will be that they wake up with a friggin' clue and start demanding da funk.

step 2 - tony, tone, toni reunite and tour with Mint Condition

step 3 - the black album is re-released with much fan fare

step 4 - radio stations stage a weeklong funk countdown & battle royal pitting classic groups and artists against each other. Slave, Confunkshun, The Barkays, Cameo, (early) Kool and The Gang, Rick James

Funk music as you knew it, has become too cliched for modern tastes. Besides, it been done to death.

95% of all actual "funk" bands today sound generic and bland, no matter how enthusiastic they may be.

And even more important you would have to come up with a new slant on the funk vocal, because that is cliched as well.

Everything about would need to be updated and fresh.

One thing to keep in mind though, is that unlike in previous eras, there is some element of funk present in all music now. Wether it be rock, pop, or even heavy metal.

So its a very different world now in that respect.

sexyfunkystrange said:

Funk music as you knew it, has become too cliched for modern tastes. Besides, it been done to death.

95% of all actual "funk" bands today sound generic and bland, no matter how enthusiastic they may be.

And even more important you would have to come up with a new slant on the funk vocal, because that is cliched as well.

Everything about would need to be updated and fresh.

One thing to keep in mind though, is that unlike in previous eras, there is some element of funk present in all music now. Wether it be rock, pop, or even heavy metal.

So its a very different world now in that respect.

Like I suggested

Throw some autotune down and I bet it would start picking it with casual listeners

*Autotune haters can just ignore this idea

namepeace said:

TonyVanDam said:

The irony of it all is that those 5 albums (especially The Chronic) were built upon with funk samples AND classic r&b/soul samples.

Why dig into the crates when Dre, Easy Mo Bee and RZA already did it for you, right?

And don't forget about Warren G, Johnny J (rest in peace), & Daz.

G-Funk is dope

It's a shame that hiphop producers don't mess with that style anymore.

How much longer can rap last in its current state?

I can only hope that Gucci Mane isn't rapping about white girls partying when i'm 30

datdude said:

step 1 - pass out funk pills at every Ga Ga, Rhianna, Drake, Lil Wayne, and Justin Bieber concert for the next months. force fans to eat it at gun point. the effect will be that they wake up with a friggin' clue and start demanding da funk.

step 2 - tony, tone, toni reunite and tour with Mint Condition

step 3 - the black album is re-released with much fan fare

step 4 - radio stations stage a weeklong funk countdown & battle royal pitting classic groups and artists against each other. Slave, Confunkshun, The Barkays, Cameo, (early) Kool and The Gang, Rick James

CORRECTION: Re-release Cameo's Alligator Woman album for much bigger fan fare.

namepeace said:

As long as rap music is cheap and catchy, funk can never make a comeback. Gone are the days where the target audiences (18-30ish) as a whole knew not only hip-hop but the musical influences as well. Many in my generation knew and loved the music of James Brown, Parliament, et al. years before they knew Eric B. & Rakim, Dr. Dre, PE, et al.

These days, PE is to the target audience what James Brown was to our generation, and they consider James Brown the same way I considered Louis Armstrong: real effort and patience had to be made to appreciate him as an artist who was 2 or more full generations removed from me.

Sad but true

minneapolisFunq said:

sexyfunkystrange said:

Funk music as you knew it, has become too cliched for modern tastes. Besides, it been done to death.

95% of all actual "funk" bands today sound generic and bland, no matter how enthusiastic they may be.

And even more important you would have to come up with a new slant on the funk vocal, because that is cliched as well.

Everything about would need to be updated and fresh.

One thing to keep in mind though, is that unlike in previous eras, there is some element of funk present in all music now. Wether it be rock, pop, or even heavy metal.

So its a very different world now in that respect.

Like I suggested

Throw some autotune down and I bet it would start picking it with casual listeners

*Autotune haters can just ignore this idea

Autotune?!? Hell no! The Funk only works when using a talkbox OR a vocoder.

[Edited 8/4/10 21:34pm]

BlaqueKnight said:

Two words: BASS GUITAR

Hell, let's start with BASS LINE. Do they still write those? Usually it's just a pitched 808 kick hitting the root note of a basic chord (if there is even that many notes going on in the next layer).

I think what is misunderstood is that autotune was never used for funk music. It was either the vocoder or talk box. And the vocoder is still used today in house music circles, especially by Daft Punk. Never did I see autotune associated with them but autotune is not a bad thing considering if you use it in the same way that vocoders and talk boxes do. It can be used effectively and creatively but the problem is many use it to the point of boredom.

TonyVanDam said:

minneapolisFunq said:

Like I suggested

Throw some autotune down and I bet it would start picking it with casual listeners

*Autotune haters can just ignore this idea

Autotune?!? Hell no! The Funk only works when using a talkbox OR a vocoder.

[Edited 8/4/10 21:34pm]

We have yet 2 experience Autotune Funk!

All of the core elements would remain the same, just keep it groovy. A lot of obscure Funk groups have singers that arent very skilled, I think it would fit.

Timmy84 said:

I think what is misunderstood is that autotune was never used for funk music. It was either the vocoder or talk box. And the vocoder is still used today in house music circles, especially by Daft Punk. Never did I see autotune associated with them but autotune is not a bad thing considering if you use it in the same way that vocoders and talk boxes do. It can be used effectively and creatively but the problem is many use it to the point of boredom.

Thats not misunderstood

If U were adressing me

I know whats up

minneapolisFunq said:

Timmy84 said:

I think what is misunderstood is that autotune was never used for funk music. It was either the vocoder or talk box. And the vocoder is still used today in house music circles, especially by Daft Punk. Never did I see autotune associated with them but autotune is not a bad thing considering if you use it in the same way that vocoders and talk boxes do. It can be used effectively and creatively but the problem is many use it to the point of boredom.

Thats not misunderstood

If U were adressing me

I know whats up

Not necessarily you. In general. The autotune CAN be used for good. Problem is it's used in the WRONG GENRE.

[Edited 8/4/10 21:50pm]

Cinnie said:

BlaqueKnight said:

Two words: BASS GUITAR

Hell, let's start with BASS LINE. Do they still write those? Usually it's just a pitched 808 kick hitting the root note of a basic chord (if there is even that many notes going on in the next layer).

You know what's funny Cinnie? The very last new song I've heard that had a (simple) bassline in it was a freaking track by The Spice Girls!

It's a damn shame that most of today's black artists.......hell, artists in general totally forgotten about the importance of a bassline.

[Edited 8/4/10 21:52pm]

[Edited 8/4/10 21:53pm]

Timmy84 said:

I think what is misunderstood is that autotune was never used for funk music. It was either the vocoder or talk box. And the vocoder is still used today in house music circles, especially by Daft Punk. Never did I see autotune associated with them but autotune is not a bad thing considering if you use it in the same way that vocoders and talk boxes do. It can be used effectively and creatively but the problem is many use it to the point of boredom.

I think what people meant was, what is a current gimmick that would best fit a "comeback" of (synth) funk.

To the youth, even the G-Funk era is a generation away already!

Timmy84 said:

minneapolisFunq said:

Thats not misunderstood

If U were adressing me

I know whats up

Not necessarily you. In general. The autotune CAN be used for good. Problem is it's used in the WRONG GENRE.

[Edited 8/4/10 21:50pm]

More so than it being used in the wrong genre, I think the way people are utilizing it isnt very imaginative.

I like when the pitch transitions up and down in an exxagerated manner. When someone like Kesha is singing all I can hear is the same annoying tone and it gets old.

As much as I dislike Lil Wayne I think that he can make it sound good when he is just going wild with his gremlin voice.

It's interesting but it sounds like gristle when Wayne does it. He sounds worse lmao JMHO.

Timmy84 said:

It's interesting but it sounds like gristle when Wayne does it. He sounds worse lmao JMHO.

I was just trying 2 give an example of what I meant.

Cinnie said:

Timmy84 said:

I think what is misunderstood is that autotune was never used for funk music. It was either the vocoder or talk box. And the vocoder is still used today in house music circles, especially by Daft Punk. Never did I see autotune associated with them but autotune is not a bad thing considering if you use it in the same way that vocoders and talk boxes do. It can be used effectively and creatively but the problem is many use it to the point of boredom.

I think what people meant was, what is a current gimmick that would best fit a "comeback" of (synth) funk.

To the youth, even the G-Funk era is a generation away already!

17 years away to be exact.

TonyVanDam said:

Cinnie said:

I think what people meant was, what is a current gimmick that would best fit a "comeback" of (synth) funk.

To the youth, even the G-Funk era is a generation away already!

17 years away to be exact.

Zapp rapp

I think authentic non adulterated Funk is a thing of the past. Although you may occasionally hear some funky bass or guitar riffs, my guess is that pure Funk will never rise to fame again. If you love FUNK better to go out and collect some CD's from Parliment and Funkadelic, Rick James, albums featuring Marcus Miller (bass), perhaps even the Brother's Johnson's guitar and bass (Stomp), even the group Chic had a funk / disco sound. There are many more artists, those mentioned are the ones that immediately come to mind.

Not really too many musical "genre's" make a "come back" once it goes away, but I do think that you will find various individual artists with funk styles of playing. But not pure funk bands.

And damned that "auto-tune".

vainandy said:

Same thing with house music. When it was predominately black, you could shake ass to it. When it became loved by predominately white people, it eventually turned into trance, lost it's rhythm, and the ass shakin' stopped and the pogo stick hopping began.

I agree with the house music scenerio. House music morphed into Techno...and that sucked the big time. Techno is Ecstasy and trance music. Once someone uses the word sh*t-hop...I kinda lose interest in what is being said, so I really cant comment on your rap analysis because I skipped over that part.

House evolved into not just techno, but Deep House and Funky House, which is really good

I know I am dropping a lot of Cee Lo lately and he mixes genres but,

These two tracks are new and Funky.......

Later

TonyVanDam said:

Cinnie said:

Hell, let's start with BASS LINE. Do they still write those? Usually it's just a pitched 808 kick hitting the root note of a basic chord (if there is even that many notes going on in the next layer).

You know what's funny Cinnie? The very last new song I've heard that had a (simple) bassline in it was a freaking track by The Spice Girls!

[Edited 8/4/10 21:52pm]

[Edited 8/4/10 21:53pm]

BlaqueKnight said:

[img:$uid]http://www.unity.i8i.co.uk/forum/images/smiley_ROFLMAO.gif[/img:$uid]

Andy, that was too funny! You got me spilling my tea over here! I wouldn't even try to argue with the truth.

The second statement is sad but also true. My fear is the only way funk can come back to mainstream now is if white people do it. Its already that way a little bit now. Bands like Maroon 5 or Chromeo can be as "funk-ish" as they wanna be but if Van Hunt or somebody dropped a funk CD - I mean a REAL funk CD - they would probably get dropped from whatever label they are on. What's worse is there's such a generational disrespect in the current R&B and hip-hop culture with kids embracing and rationalizing being musically illerate that its not likely that many of them seem willing to take it to the next lvel. If you're over 25, its like Logan's Run in the music business - you better run because if you try to put out music, the first thing that gets said is "you're too old to be doing this" - which is some new dumb shit that goes way beyond logic. NOBODY is too old to do music; especially good music.

vainandy said:

Same thing with house music. When it was predominately black, you could shake ass to it. When it became loved by predominately white people, it eventually turned into trance, lost it's rhythm, and the ass shakin' stopped and the pogo stick hopping began....

...Funk can't exist with so many people existing these days with no rhythm. Yeah, someone older could record something but the kids wouldn't buy it because someone older made it.

One of the Barkays said recently that his biggest fear is that one day some white kid is going to tell black people "Come here and let me show you how to play some funk and they're going to take credit for something that we started because there is a whole generation of blacks that don't play music at all". Well, it's already happening because everything that I've heard that even resembles funk at all has been by white groups like Jamiroquai and Chromeo. And if you play it for younger blacks, they call it "white folks music". They just don't know it but they are the ones listening to "white folks music"....a bunch of shit hop that's slower and duller than classical music. Hell, Lawrence Welk and Slim Whitman had more rhythm than these motherfuckers today.

Reel said:

vainandy said:

Same thing with house music. When it was predominately black, you could shake ass to it. When it became loved by predominately white people, it eventually turned into trance, lost it's rhythm, and the ass shakin' stopped and the pogo stick hopping began.

I agree with the house music scenerio. House music morphed into Techno...and that sucked the big time. Techno is Ecstasy and trance music. Once someone uses the word sh*t-hop...I kinda lose interest in what is being said, so I really cant comment on your rap analysis because I skipped over that part.

Wrong.

Techno was funky at first when the gerne was founded in Detroit by Juan Aikens (AKA Cypotron, Model 500), Kevin Saunderson (one-half of Inner City), & Derreck May (AKA Rhythim is Rhythim). They weren't think about disco (like Chicago House) as much as they were think about future-sounding music (Kraftwerk, P-Funk's Flashlight & Atomic Dog). As a mstter of fact, Juan Alkens' earlier work sounded exactly like the genre Electro/Synth-Funk!

The moment too many Canadians got involved in the music production catering to the fans on acid & MDMA, that's when the ideas of Trance was forming.

[Edited 8/5/10 8:17am]