AlexdeParis said:

In other news, water is wet.

Say it ain't so!

shorttrini said:

She's not doing anything that new. Puffy, used to and is STILL doing the same shyt, but nobody bats and eyelash about that.

Uh, wrong. People on here, myself included, regularly clown Puffy for his thieving ways. It's still wrong.

estelle81 said:

purplesweat said:

That's another good point - how much of this is Matthew's influence and how influenced IS Beyonce by her father? Is she afraid to go against him? She recorded B'Day in secret, and turned her phone off so he couldn't find her - that's really not a healthy relationship. The B'Day era had a noticeably low budget, maybe Matthew wouldn't give her more funding because he wasn't in total control? Is Beyonce in control of her finances or does her dad "handle" them?

I've heard rumours lately that she won't talk to him any more, hopefully it's true!

I thought that she got even with her dad when she married Jay-Z. I'd heard from more than one source that Daddy Knowles didn't like Jay-Z because he thought he was too much of a thug to be with his daughter. Beyonce showed him with that secret wedding whose boss of her personal life; now her business affairs are more than likely still being largely controlled by her father because, let's face the facts, the man has had a big hand in making his little girl a household name. I will never believe that Beyonce could have made it this far without her father pulling lots of strings for her behind the scenes because there are lots of women who sing just as good as (oftentimes better than) her but don't have multi-million dollar record deals because they don't have cutthroat managers backing their careers. Either way, Beyonce could decline taking any credit for these songs but she chooses to take some credit for them so she's just as guilty of being dishonest as her father is in the end. Personally, if she's allowed to take credit for weak and forgettable songs than more power to the girl.

Actually, I think Jay's been ghosting for her since they started fucking. He's very good at writing for female artists which reminds me of Prince. Jay's style is all over DC's later shit and quite a bit of B's solo stuff.

Timmy84 said:

shorttrini said:

I've said this before, but Puffy has been getting away with this for YEARS!! Nobody, has said a thing.

We've BEEN saying Puffy had ghostwriters/ghost producers.

[Edited 7/18/10 22:47pm]

Right??? We talk about this ALL the time. Where he been?

I think 'If I Were A Boy' works much better as a rock ballad. I liked the original version, can't stand the Beyonce one

SCNDLS said:

Timmy84 said:

We've BEEN saying Puffy had ghostwriters/ghost producers.

[Edited 7/18/10 22:47pm]

Right??? We talk about this ALL the time. Where he been?

Who knows?

jiorjios said:

I think 'If I Were A Boy' works much better as a rock ballad. I liked the original version, can't stand the Beyonce one

Reba covered it. I've heard a dancehall cover of it as well.

SCNDLS said:

estelle81 said:

I thought that she got even with her dad when she married Jay-Z. I'd heard from more than one source that Daddy Knowles didn't like Jay-Z because he thought he was too much of a thug to be with his daughter. Beyonce showed him with that secret wedding whose boss of her personal life; now her business affairs are more than likely still being largely controlled by her father because, let's face the facts, the man has had a big hand in making his little girl a household name. I will never believe that Beyonce could have made it this far without her father pulling lots of strings for her behind the scenes because there are lots of women who sing just as good as (oftentimes better than) her but don't have multi-million dollar record deals because they don't have cutthroat managers backing their careers. Either way, Beyonce could decline taking any credit for these songs but she chooses to take some credit for them so she's just as guilty of being dishonest as her father is in the end. Personally, if she's allowed to take credit for weak and forgettable songs than more power to the girl.

Actually, I think Jay's been ghosting for her since they started fucking. He's very good at writing for female artists which reminds me of Prince. Jay's style is all over DC's later shit and quite a bit of B's solo stuff.

He wrote the chorus for Lose My Breath and Upgrade U seems like his style.

purplesweat said:

SCNDLS said:

Actually, I think Jay's been ghosting for her since they started fucking. He's very good at writing for female artists which reminds me of Prince. Jay's style is all over DC's later shit and quite a bit of B's solo stuff.

He wrote the chorus for Lose My Breath and Upgrade U seems like his style.

i thought his name was on those credits

missmad said:

purplesweat said:

He wrote the chorus for Lose My Breath and Upgrade U seems like his style.

i thought his name was on those credits

Well, he raps in that song but I meant the verses. The whole song tbh sounds like his usual style.

purplesweat said:

missmad said:

i thought his name was on those credits

Well, he raps in that song but I meant the verses. The whole song tbh sounds like his usual style.

ah ok, no idea

purplesweat said:

missmad said:

i thought his name was on those credits

Well, he raps in that song but I meant the verses. The whole song tbh sounds like his usual style.

Not to mention Jay wrote Beys "rap" in Kitty Kat

0:19

PurpleRain2010 said:

She has never pretended to write whole songs. She always says that she co-writes with others or gets songs sent to her and she changes aspects of it. Songwriting isn't just writing the lyrics. It's about the melody and the instruments as well. For example, Ne-Yo's version of Irreplaceable is completely different to Beyonce's because she added drums and the vocal arrangement is different.

You may want to look at this website - http://www.allshadezone.c...chives/872 and this video - http://www.youtube.com/wa...LxR1vxYyqg

Although, I suspect most of you won't

[Edited 7/14/10 8:32am]

[Edited 7/14/10 8:33am]

Oh my Lord, this chile just said songwriting isn't just in the lyrics. Ummm, okay..." />

That being said, Beyonce doesn't play any instruments, and any changes in the musical arrangements would have been instituted by whomever was at the board acting as the producer on that project. The fact of the matter is, since Beyonce first hit mega mainstream status with Survivor, she (or rather, her representation) have always jockeyed and bullied the other members of the songwriting teams for credits and production points. It happened to several friends of mine who work on that level (NARAS award winning), including an ex of mine. In the end it all becomes bloodsport with a lot of threats thrown back and forth and as a member of the team, you really have to sit and weigh the pros and cons of going against the Knowles machine. Since the music business is in fact, more business than anything else, most are smart enough to let the Knowles tactics slide & dump off the credits and points on her, because the payoff in the end is that you get attached to a grammy award winning artist with mass commercial appeal, and it allows you a better angling position when you negotiate on future projects for diff. artists, it it gives you a wider range for your agent to cast your net, and etc.

purplesweat said:

missmad said:

i thought his name was on those credits

Well, he raps in that song but I meant the verses. The whole song tbh sounds like his usual style.

Totally. Soldier is another one that I'm like, "Jay peed all over this one." I'm not a huge fan of B's but I remember listening to her first album and picking up Jay's style throughout.

SCNDLS said:

purplesweat said:

Well, he raps in that song but I meant the verses. The whole song tbh sounds like his usual style.

Totally. Soldier is another one that I'm like, "Jay peed all over this one." I'm not a huge fan of B's but I remember listening to her first album and picking up Jay's style throughout.

Soldier is one of the few of DC/Beyonce songs I actually like... the others would be

1.Bills Bills Bills

2.Say My Name (the best they or she ever did)

3.Independent Woman Part 1

4.Bootylicious

5.Work It Out (her best solo song)

6.Crazy In Love

7.Soldier

8.Deja-Vu

9.Sweet Dreams

you can add 'Telephone' and the list is completed.

[Edited 7/21/10 18:10pm]

jiorjios said:

SCNDLS said:

Totally. Soldier is another one that I'm like, "Jay peed all over this one." I'm not a huge fan of B's but I remember listening to her first album and picking up Jay's style throughout.

Soldier is one of the few of DC/Beyonce songs I actually like... the others would be

1.Bills Bills Bills

2.Say My Name (the best they or she ever did)

3.Independent Woman Part 1

4.Bootylicious

5.Work It Out (her best solo song)

6.Crazy In Love

7.Soldier

8.Deja-Vu

9.Sweet Dreams

you can add 'Telephone' and the list is completed.

[Edited 7/21/10 18:10pm]

Telephone would count as a Lady Gaga track and also a song I wish Bey WASNT on

Arnotts said:

purplesweat said:

She doesn't try to act like she isn't.

"Y'all I wrote Irreplaceable. I DID!!!!!"

In a way I understand why they do it. People dont respect singers who don't have a hand in writing. Britney absolutely proves that point. Shes probably the least respected mega pop star out of all of them simply because she doesnt pretend. Alot of people on here keep saying "back in the day when singers were singers and writers were writers" but then go on to say certain entertainers are talentless because they dont write their music. Singers these days really cant win either way.

Although this is not really relevant to Beyonce (for reasons I'll explain later) it's nonetheless an interesting point. In the 60s, Dylan and The Beatles paved the way for a generation of giants who made it a point to write their own material. It seemed like a good thing at the time when there were so many great writers around, but in the long run it's been harmful. There is such a stigma to not writing your own stuff that talented singers and musicians who could be doing great things are instead perpetuating mediocrity by trying to be songwriters too. Standards are so low nowadays that they get away with it.

There are even artists I like who have occasionally written great songs, but have made patchy albums due to their insistence on writing all the material. This is because they want to be respected as "artists", which nowadays is hard to achieve if you're not seen as a songwriter. It's a far cry from the days when the likes of Aretha Franklin and Nina Simone would pride themselves on being finders and interpreters of great material just as much as writers. In that sense they were almost the last of a dying breed.

Of course none of this really applies to Beyonce though, since she is not looking for credibility. She's looking for money, money, money and she's taken that quest to new levels of shamelessness. You get the impression if this chick was walking down the street and saw a penny on the other side of the road that was half covered in dog shit, she'd run through the traffic just to pick it up.

shorttrini said:

I am not sure if I agree with that. Let's take MJ's song, "2,000 Watts" for example. That song was written by Tyreese for his album of the same name, it just had not gone to press yet. When Michael heard it, he changed the vocal arrangement of the song. To me, that is not covering a song, that is adding to it and making it our own.

If what you're saying is true then he is just as guilty as Beyonce. Changing the vocal arrangement may well be "making it your own", but it's not songwriting.

purplesweat said:

Thanks for understanding my point. Britney has never pretended to be anything and never acted like her music is groundbreaking or whatever, mostly she just describes it as "cool" and "fun".

Britney Spears is a joke, but she and Kylie Minogue are definitely the most honest and non-pretentious of the "pop divas". All the rest are bullshitters and liars including many org favourites. Let's not forget Janet Jackson took credit for Rene Elizondo's work for years and only came clean in 1997 upon his insistence. She made it clear at the time that she would have happily continued to lie about it, but he (the naive sap) had an attack of conscience. He felt they were being "fraudulent".

ViintageJunkiie said:

jiorjios said:

Soldier is one of the few of DC/Beyonce songs I actually like... the others would be

1.Bills Bills Bills

2.Say My Name (the best they or she ever did)

3.Independent Woman Part 1

4.Bootylicious

5.Work It Out (her best solo song)

6.Crazy In Love

7.Soldier

8.Deja-Vu

9.Sweet Dreams

you can add 'Telephone' and the list is completed.

[Edited 7/21/10 18:10pm]

Telephone would count as a Lady Gaga track and also a song I wish Bey WASNT on

I HATE that shit!

SCNDLS said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

Telephone would count as a Lady Gaga track and also a song I wish Bey WASNT on

I HATE that shit!

Well as you see I liked several DC songs... However when I bought the Writing's On The Wall album, it was full of fillers... I heard it once or twice and no more... now I also liked the two singles from Beyonce's first album but I wouldn't buy it after my DC experience and 'Baby Boy' was soooo annoying. Since then I kinda like 1 single from each of her albums and I completely despise all the rest. Oh and 'Irreplaceable' and to a slightly lesser extent 'If I Were A Boy' and 'Single Ladies' have brought the annoying-songs-you-just-can't-avoid concept to a whole new lever...

PS Another reason I don't like her is that she keeps on duetting pop artists I actually like and destroys it for me. She did it with Shakira, she did it with Prince, she did it with Lady Gaga, enough lol

midnightmover said:

shorttrini said:

If what you're saying is true then he is just as guilty as Beyonce. Changing the vocal arrangement may well be "making it your own", but it's not songwriting.

Of course, MJ is a songwriter and has written many songs of his own. This one example of "2000 Watts" does not change the fact that Michael is actually a songwriter.

[Edited 7/22/10 22:08pm]

midnightmover said:

purplesweat said:

Thanks for understanding my point. Britney has never pretended to be anything and never acted like her music is groundbreaking or whatever, mostly she just describes it as "cool" and "fun".

Britney Spears is a joke, but she and Kylie Minogue are definitely the most honest and non-pretentious of the "pop divas". All the rest are bullshitters and liars including many org favourites. Let's not forget Janet Jackson took credit for Rene Elizondo's work for years and only came clean in 1997 upon his insistence. She made it clear at the time that she would have happily continued to lie about it, but he (the naive sap) had an attack of conscience. He felt they were being "fraudulent".

It's been VERY obvious since Janet and Rene broke up that he had a major part in writing her songs. Since the breakup, her supposed "songwriting" has never been the same, IMO. I'm glad that he finally spoke up and she HAD to acknowledge his contribution to her "songwriting".

Unless Beyonce's a member of the Jackson family, why is the name "Janet" brought up?

Back on topic.

Timmy84 said:

Unless Beyonce's a member of the Jackson family, why is the name "Janet" brought up?

Back on topic.

Because Janet fans have always felt threatened by Beyonce. Sad, but true.

midnightmover said:

shorttrini said:

If what you're saying is true then he is just as guilty as Beyonce. Changing the vocal arrangement may well be "making it your own", but it's not songwriting.

Well we have to remember that we never heard Tyrese's version of 2000 Watts. Ty's lyrics might be different ..

Take MJ's song "Someone Put Your Hand Out", the original song was written solely by MJ (as stated in the 1993 Depo) but Teddy Riley heard the track and changed some of the second verse.

It's possible that MJ changed some of the lyrical content on 2000 Watts

Free2BMe said:

Timmy84 said:

Unless Beyonce's a member of the Jackson family, why is the name "Janet" brought up?

Back on topic.

Because Janet fans have always felt threatened by Beyonce. Sad, but true.

Uh why would they be?

Two completely different artists. Anyways...lol

[Edited 7/23/10 1:28am]

ViintageJunkiie said:

midnightmover said:

If what you're saying is true then he is just as guilty as Beyonce. Changing the vocal arrangement may well be "making it your own", but it's not songwriting.

Well we have to remember that we never heard Tyrese's version of 2000 Watts. Ty's lyrics might be different ..

Take MJ's song "Someone Put Your Hand Out", the original song was written solely by MJ (as stated in the 1993 Depo) but Teddy Riley heard the track and changed some of the second verse.

It's possible that MJ changed some of the lyrical content on 2000 Watts

The lyrics, were similar. I have heard the outtake of Tyrese's version.

Finally this thread got turned into an MJ thread too! What took you guys so long.

novabrkr said:

Finally this thread got turned into an MJ thread too! What took you guys so long.