TonyVanDam said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Yeah, that shit tripped me out too. But it's happening all the time. People are so easily divided by the most trivial of bullshit!!!

White vs Black

Straight vs Homosexual

Christian vs Everbody else

Fams vs Haters

It's a never ending cycle!

Well if you think the east coast VS. west coast feud was total bullshit from hell, what about east coast (especially Nas) hating on the dirty south for taking the spotlight away from them?

More ass backwards stupidity, once again proving the age old adage that money can't buy smarts?

Nas should've shut the fuck up. He's always in the middle of starting feuds trying so hard to be 'Pac that it's silly.

Guns don't kill people, rappers do.

Suge Knight was in car at the time of Tupac, how much faith would he have rested on the shooter? Ballistics would've established that the bullets came from a vehicle alongside, no involvement onscene, so it's a hard one to buy.

I assumed Pac picked up on the Illuminnati from The Prince? That talk sounds crazy VanDam. As with calling himself Machiavelli he was probably just namechecking some cool-sounding sstuff he'd picked up in a book he didn't have a full understanding of.

When did Pac out Dre as bisexual?

I'm still waiting for them to drop a beat over him sneezing in a studio circa94.

[Edited 6/22/10 19:03pm]

elmer said:

Guns don't kill people, rappers do.

Suge Knight was in car at the time of Tupac, how much faith would he have rested on the shooter? Ballistics would've established that the bullets came from a vehicle alongside, no involvement onscene, so it's a hard one to buy.

I assumed Pac picked up on the Illuminnati from The Prince? That talk sounds crazy VanDam. As with calling himself Machiavelli he was probably just namechecking some cool-sounding sstuff he'd picked up in a book he didn't have a full understanding of.

When did Pac out Dre as bisexual?

I'm still waiting for them to drop a beat over him sneezing in a studio circa94.

[Edited 6/22/10 19:03pm]

Ugh I was trying to find that snippet where Pac said while he was working, Dre was "sucking dick and eating pussy" and doing nothing but it seems YouTube deleted it.

Thing is that what people forget is that BOTH were criminals and lived the life, Pac was a gang member and BIGGIE was a drug dealer, so right there U have tons of people who could/would kill U in a second for getting loud, talkin shit, wearing something the wrong way, for beats and rhymes. This isnt like a feud between Madonna and Mariah Carey, these are straight up thugs, born it and died it, i dont care how good their flow and/or ryhymes were, a thug is a thug. So although murder is inexusable, was it really a shock? And is it even more a shock that no one was caught or even looking since the whole no snitchin shit started here, you had cops running with gangs and vice versa covering shit up. So in reality no one will ever know, but inreality it was just a matter of time before got killed, and i think we all knew it, just as much as Kurt Cobain was gonna die, the 90's were very very predictable.

Timmy84 said:

elmer said:

Guns don't kill people, rappers do.

Suge Knight was in car at the time of Tupac, how much faith would he have rested on the shooter? Ballistics would've established that the bullets came from a vehicle alongside, no involvement onscene, so it's a hard one to buy.

I assumed Pac picked up on the Illuminnati from The Prince? That talk sounds crazy VanDam. As with calling himself Machiavelli he was probably just namechecking some cool-sounding sstuff he'd picked up in a book he didn't have a full understanding of.

When did Pac out Dre as bisexual?

I'm still waiting for them to drop a beat over him sneezing in a studio circa94.

[Edited 6/22/10 19:03pm]

Ugh I was trying to find that snippet where Pac said while he was working, Dre was "sucking dick and eating pussy" and doing nothing but it seems YouTube deleted it.

No they didn't.

@ Elmer.......You proof right here.^ It starts at the 5:35 mark. 2pac outed Dre right after Dre left Death Row Record.

TonyVanDam said:

Timmy84 said:

Ugh I was trying to find that snippet where Pac said while he was working, Dre was "sucking dick and eating pussy" and doing nothing but it seems YouTube deleted it.

No they didn't.

@ Elmer.......You proof right here.^ It starts at the 5:35 mark. 2pac outed Dre right after Dre left Death Row Record.

for the record i think they all are Bi, especially Pac.

lastdecember said:

TonyVanDam said:

No they didn't.

@ Elmer.......You proof right here.^ It starts at the 5:35 mark. 2pac outed Dre right after Dre left Death Row Record.

for the record i think they all are Bi, especially Pac.

A few of those classics from Death Row Records were kinda of homoerotic after reading the lyrics. Dre Day & Ain't No Fun (If the Homies Can't Have None) are perfect examples.

But that's how rappers used to dis each other in the early 1990's. But in the 2010, you can't get away with something like this without mentioning "No Homo" after ever sentence!

TonyVanDam said:

Timmy84 said:

Ugh I was trying to find that snippet where Pac said while he was working, Dre was "sucking dick and eating pussy" and doing nothing but it seems YouTube deleted it.

No they didn't.

@ Elmer.......You proof right here.^ It starts at the 5:35 mark. 2pac outed Dre right after Dre left Death Row Record.

Man I wasn't talking about that! LMAO

lastdecember said:

Thing is that what people forget is that BOTH were criminals and lived the life, Pac was a gang member and BIGGIE was a drug dealer, so right there U have tons of people who could/would kill U in a second for getting loud, talkin shit, wearing something the wrong way, for beats and rhymes. This isnt like a feud between Madonna and Mariah Carey, these are straight up thugs, born it and died it, i dont care how good their flow and/or ryhymes were, a thug is a thug. So although murder is inexusable, was it really a shock? And is it even more a shock that no one was caught or even looking since the whole no snitchin shit started here, you had cops running with gangs and vice versa covering shit up. So in reality no one will ever know, but inreality it was just a matter of time before got killed, and i think we all knew it, just as much as Kurt Cobain was gonna die, the 90's were very very predictable.

The thing that endears me to Tupac the most, is the fact that Tupac wore his heart, like he wore his tattoos. Right there for all to see, if you took the time to look!

There will NEVER...EVER...be any forgetting who he was because he wasn't afraid to put just exactly who he was...on record...for those he knew...would take the time to listen!

THAT'S what cost him his life!

Pac's life was real gritty too. He was conceived while in a prison cell, his mother was a Black Panther facing charges of, what was it, attempted murder on some cop? Then he had to deal with father drama (real father walking out, stepfather arrested for crimes), dealing with poverty all the while dreaming of being a star of some sort, seeing murder, gang related activity and drug addicts in the streets of New York, Baltimore and Marin. Then seeing his mother get addicted to crack cocaine, dealing with gang activity himself, and trying to be a drug dealer until someone convinced him to try rapping because they knew how good he was at it, and then after getting attention for his music, getting arrested and beat up for jaywalking, then having to deal with what he dealt with on a daily basis after becoming a star, he truly lived a rough life. So yeah it's no shock that he went out the way he went out but I just wished it didn't have to come to that.

Cinnie said:

dseann said:

Do you honestly think that Biggie thought he was KING of Bad Boy. With Sean's voice all over the tracks, face all up in the video even on stage at most of the concerts? Maybe he was the Prince of Bad Boy but Sean never let anyone forget who was King of Bad Boy.

okay you are now quoting Suge Knight. Go Team Suge!

Suge who?

He did say that didn't he?

I was just stating facts though.

For the record I like Dr. Dre not Death Row itself and I rep the East Coast. Just can't stand Sean Combs(Chin Daddy)

elmer said:

Guns don't kill people, rappers do.

Suge Knight was in car at the time of Tupac, how much faith would he have rested on the shooter? Ballistics would've established that the bullets came from a vehicle alongside, no involvement onscene, so it's a hard one to buy.

I assumed Pac picked up on the Illuminnati from The Prince? That talk sounds crazy VanDam. As with calling himself Machiavelli he was probably just namechecking some cool-sounding sstuff he'd picked up in a book he didn't have a full understanding of.

When did Pac out Dre as bisexual?

I'm still waiting for them to drop a beat over him sneezing in a studio circa94.

[Edited 6/22/10 19:03pm]

Maybe at the end of "To Live Or Die In L.A." when he stated that the song was "California Love part 2 without gay ass Dre."

Timmy84 said:

Pac's life was real gritty too. He was conceived while in a prison cell, his mother was a Black Panther facing charges of, what was it, attempted murder on some cop? Then he had to deal with father drama (real father walking out, stepfather arrested for crimes), dealing with poverty all the while dreaming of being a star of some sort, seeing murder, gang related activity and drug addicts in the streets of New York, Baltimore and Marin. Then seeing his mother get addicted to crack cocaine, dealing with gang activity himself, and trying to be a drug dealer until someone convinced him to try rapping because they knew how good he was at it, and then after getting attention for his music, getting arrested and beat up for jaywalking, then having to deal with what he dealt with on a daily basis after becoming a star, he truly lived a rough life. So yeah it's no shock that he went out the way he went out but I just wished it didn't have to come to that.

Lot of people lives or gritty Timmy. . .

He had choices that would have improved his life.

Timmy84 said:

Pac's life was real gritty too. He was conceived while in a prison cell, his mother was a Black Panther facing charges of, what was it, attempted murder on some cop? Then he had to deal with father drama (real father walking out, stepfather arrested for crimes), dealing with poverty all the while dreaming of being a star of some sort, seeing murder, gang related activity and drug addicts in the streets of New York, Baltimore and Marin. Then seeing his mother get addicted to crack cocaine, dealing with gang activity himself, and trying to be a drug dealer until someone convinced him to try rapping because they knew how good he was at it, and then after getting attention for his music, getting arrested and beat up for jaywalking, then having to deal with what he dealt with on a daily basis after becoming a star, he truly lived a rough life. So yeah it's no shock that he went out the way he went out but I just wished it didn't have to come to that.

Are you sure he was conceived in a prison cell?

I thought his mother just confirmed the fact that she was pregnant while she was in jail. I've never heard of a time where both men and women were locked up in the same cell. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

dseann said:

Timmy84 said:

Pac's life was real gritty too. He was conceived while in a prison cell, his mother was a Black Panther facing charges of, what was it, attempted murder on some cop? Then he had to deal with father drama (real father walking out, stepfather arrested for crimes), dealing with poverty all the while dreaming of being a star of some sort, seeing murder, gang related activity and drug addicts in the streets of New York, Baltimore and Marin. Then seeing his mother get addicted to crack cocaine, dealing with gang activity himself, and trying to be a drug dealer until someone convinced him to try rapping because they knew how good he was at it, and then after getting attention for his music, getting arrested and beat up for jaywalking, then having to deal with what he dealt with on a daily basis after becoming a star, he truly lived a rough life. So yeah it's no shock that he went out the way he went out but I just wished it didn't have to come to that.

Are you sure he was conceived in a prison cell?

I thought his mother just confirmed the fact that she was pregnant while she was in jail. I've never heard of a time where both men and women were locked up in the same cell. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't know I just kept hearing that story. It may have been fabricated.

@TD3 yeah I know that, I was just stating.

Timmy84 said:

dseann said:

Are you sure he was conceived in a prison cell?

I thought his mother just confirmed the fact that she was pregnant while she was in jail. I've never heard of a time where both men and women were locked up in the same cell. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't know I just kept hearing that story. It may have been fabricated.

@TD3 yeah I know that, I was just stating.

He did have a pretty fucked up life as a kid, but unless his mother was raped by some prison guard, he wasn't conceived in a prison cell. Most of these rags to riches cats add a little too much rags to their story to appear tougher than they really are/were.

[Edited 6/23/10 11:09am]

dseann said:

Timmy84 said:

I don't know I just kept hearing that story. It may have been fabricated.

@TD3 yeah I know that, I was just stating.

He did have a pretty fucked up life as a kid, but unless his mother was raped by some prison guard, he wasn't conceived in a prison cell. Most of these rags to riches cats add a little too much rags to their story to appear tougher than they really are/were.

[Edited 6/23/10 11:09am]

True. Plus 'Pac did have a good time at that performing arts school in Baltimore so it wasn't TOO hard.

Timmy84 said:

dseann said:

He did have a pretty fucked up life as a kid, but unless his mother was raped by some prison guard, he wasn't conceived in a prison cell. Most of these rags to riches cats add a little too much rags to their story to appear tougher than they really are/were.

[Edited 6/23/10 11:09am]

True. Plus 'Pac did have a good time at that performing arts school in Baltimore so it wasn't TOO hard.

Was going to mention that but it would have made my post too long.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

lastdecember said:

Thing is that what people forget is that BOTH were criminals and lived the life, Pac was a gang member and BIGGIE was a drug dealer, so right there U have tons of people who could/would kill U in a second for getting loud, talkin shit, wearing something the wrong way, for beats and rhymes. This isnt like a feud between Madonna and Mariah Carey, these are straight up thugs, born it and died it, i dont care how good their flow and/or ryhymes were, a thug is a thug. So although murder is inexusable, was it really a shock? And is it even more a shock that no one was caught or even looking since the whole no snitchin shit started here, you had cops running with gangs and vice versa covering shit up. So in reality no one will ever know, but inreality it was just a matter of time before got killed, and i think we all knew it, just as much as Kurt Cobain was gonna die, the 90's were very very predictable.

The thing that endears me to Tupac the most, is the fact that Tupac wore his heart, like he wore his tattoos. Right there for all to see, if you took the time to look!

There will NEVER...EVER...be any forgetting who he was because he wasn't afraid to put just exactly who he was...on record...for those he knew...would take the time to listen!

THAT'S what cost him his life!

But his death had nothing to do with his music at the end of the day. Someone like John Lennon was murdered for his songs and his stance, tupac was followed by his background that he could never shake and he always kept it in the game. Ive listened to all of his stuff, and this isnt about his work, that stands seperate from his murder. 2Pac wasnt shy about provoking violence, i mean he wasnt saying or trying to get away from the "life" he was wearing it proudly.

elmer said:

When did Pac out Dre as bisexual?

[Edited 6/22/10 19:03pm]

In his song "Toss It Up" he all but called Dre gay

lastdecember said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

The thing that endears me to Tupac the most, is the fact that Tupac wore his heart, like he wore his tattoos. Right there for all to see, if you took the time to look!

There will NEVER...EVER...be any forgetting who he was because he wasn't afraid to put just exactly who he was...on record...for those he knew...would take the time to listen!

THAT'S what cost him his life!

But his death had nothing to do with his music at the end of the day. Someone like John Lennon was murdered for his songs and his stance, tupac was followed by his background that he could never shake and he always kept it in the game. Ive listened to all of his stuff, and this isnt about his work, that stands seperate from his murder. 2Pac wasnt shy about provoking violence, i mean he wasnt saying or trying to get away from the "life" he was wearing it proudly.

You started your last comment with, "Thing is that what people forget...".

I was pointing out, there's no forgetting who he was because he recorded exactly who he was...bad, good and otherwise.

.

[Edited 6/24/10 5:48am]

I never got the whole East Coast/West Coast rivalry either which

seemed to be fueled by Pac.

phunkdaddy said:

I never got the whole East Coast/West Coast rivalry either which

seemed to be fueled by Pac.

Yeah also Pac's main reason for that rivalry was money. I think he made it clear it was just for money. BIG's mother said BIG once confronted Pac about it and all Pac said to him was "just trying to make some money and sell some records". But it easily spilled out into murder for both men.

phunkdaddy said:

I never got the whole East Coast/West Coast rivalry either which

seemed to be fueled by Pac.

Are you kidding?!? The east coast/west coast rivalry existed long before 2pac & Biggie.

I remember a time during the 1980's that west coast rap could NOT sell well in NYC. Sure there was Ice Cube, but he had to leave N.W.A. to do it. Ice-T was well known in NYC, but he was born and raised in New Jeresy first before relocating to Los Angeles. Even M.C. Hammer admitted in one of his music videos that NYC was THE very last place in the USA that he had yet to sell well at that moment in time.

For every Ice Cube/Ice-T/Hammer that did well on the east coast based on specific cicumstances, there were so many other west coast rap artists (READ: Egyptian Lover) that the east coast were NOT given any chance in hell of being successful in NYC.

But despite those negatives, there was a huge positive for the west coast rap artist: The very fact that they were able to outsell the east coast, especially in certian American regions like the Dirty South. Granted, the east coast were better at writing lyrics. But the west coast was better at making music as well as using better choices of samples.

These kinds of incidents combined became the origin of the east coast/west coast rivalry.

TonyVanDam said:

phunkdaddy said:

I never got the whole East Coast/West Coast rivalry either which

seemed to be fueled by Pac.

Are you kidding?!? The east coast/west coast rivalry existed long before 2pac & Biggie.

I remember a time during the 1980's that west coast rap could NOT sell well in NYC. Sure there was Ice Cube, but he had to leave N.W.A. to do it. Ice-T was well known in NYC, but he was born and raised in New Jeresy first before relocating to Los Angeles. Even M.C. Hammer admitted in one of his music videos that NYC was THE very last place in the USA that he had yet to sell well at that moment in time.

For every Ice Cube/Ice-T/Hammer that did well on the east coast based on specific cicumstances, there were so many other west coast rap artists (READ: Egyptian Lover) that the east coast were NOT given any chance in hell of being successful in NYC.

But despite those negatives, there was a huge positive for the west coast rap artist: The very fact that they were able to outsell the east coast, especially in certian American regions like the Dirty South. Granted, the east coast were better at writing lyrics. But the west coast was better at making music as well as using better choices of samples.

These kinds of incidents combined became the origin of the east coast/west coast rivalry.

I remembered that. West coast rap didn't really take over the rap world until "The Chronic". BUT west coast rap was ALWAYS a big deal in the South. That's all I heard around my area was west coast-area rap music. East coast got played in the South but it was always overshadowed by the west coast.

[Edited 6/25/10 0:07am]

2PAC had no problem with the East. Have any of you heard 'One Nation', the compliation that 'Pac was recording at the time of his death? There are several tracks circulating from that (bloody good songs) where 'Pac collaborates with East Coast Artists and makes it very clear there is no beef with the East.

'Pac's problem was with one individual. Geographical location had nothing to do with it. They could have just as easily been in the West. Suge and other rappers may have contributed to that shit, but not 2PAC.

The East/West rivalry had nothing to do with 'Pacs death, IMO. It is connecting two events that have no bearing upon one another. You don't murder someone you threatened to kill on record. Both sides issued threats. Gang members may have involved themselves, but lets face it, no attempts were made on anybody apart from 2PAC and Biggie. Biggie may have been killed due to a misconception, and his visiting the West at a volatile time (not the most intelligent idea), but I doubt he was responsible for murdering his old friend, no matter what was going down.

It is simplistic to assert that 'Pacs lifestyle lead to his death. 'Pac never had a criminal record before he made a record. He was shot initially, in the lobby of a recording studio, with Biggie, once his best friend, present. Yes, 2PAC had to play a more 'gangsta' persona for Death Row Records, but earlier albums rarely if at all, reflect this stance. You have to consider that 'Pac had been shot up, imprisoned injustly and was angry. He hit back on wax. If he had genuinely wanted 'street retribution' he could have easily got that. Biggie's death followed 2PAC's. This whole beef hardly benefited them.

I don't take Biggie's Mothers assertions seriously, because 'Pac was selling records well before the beef. In fact, toward the end he knew he was being conned by Death Row.

How many 'gangsta' rappers do you know who have been murdered due to their lyrical (or otherwise) embracing of the 'lifestyle'? Very few. Shot on two incidents, both planned?

Snoop was connected with a murder case, as have other rappers such as C-Murder. All are among us.

Jay-Z is alive, yet a known felon.

50 Cent is here, despite being shot nine times and involving himself in numerous beefs and disses.

There are other examples.

Run DMC did not promote or embrace a 'gangsta' lifestyle. Yet he was shot dead. Neither did John Lennon but he died violently as well.

OperatingThetan said:

2PAC had no problem with the East. Have any of you heard 'One Nation', the compliation that 'Pac was recording at the time of his death? There are several tracks circulating from that (bloody good songs) where 'Pac collaborates with East Coast Artists and makes it very clear there is no beef with the East.

'Pac's problem was with one individual. Geographical location had nothing to do with it. They could have just as easily been in the West. Suge and other rappers may have contributed to that shit, but not 2PAC.

The East/West rivalry had nothing to do with 'Pacs death, IMO. It is connecting two events that have no bearing upon one another. You don't murder someone you threatened to kill on record. Both sides issued threats. Gang members may have involved themselves, but lets face it, no attempts were made on anybody apart from 2PAC and Biggie. Biggie may have been killed due to a misconception, and his visiting the West at a volatile time (not the most intelligent idea), but I doubt he was responsible for murdering his old friend, no matter what was going down.

It is simplistic to assert that 'Pacs lifestyle lead to his death. 'Pac never had a criminal record before he made a record. He was shot initially, in the lobby of a recording studio, with Biggie, once his best friend, present. Yes, 2PAC had to play a more 'gangsta' persona for Death Row Records, but earlier albums rarely if at all, reflect this stance. You have to consider that 'Pac had been shot up, imprisoned injustly and was angry. He hit back on wax. If he had genuinely wanted 'street retribution' he could have easily got that. Biggie's death followed 2PAC's. This whole beef hardly benefited them.

I don't take Biggie's Mothers assertions seriously, because 'Pac was selling records well before the beef. In fact, toward the end he knew he was being conned by Death Row.

How many 'gangsta' rappers do you know who have been murdered due to their lyrical (or otherwise) embracing of the 'lifestyle'? Very few. Shot on two incidents, both planned?

Snoop was connected with a murder case, as have other rappers such as C-Murder. All are among us.

Jay-Z is alive, yet a known felon.

50 Cent is here, despite being shot nine times and involving himself in numerous beefs and disses.

There are other examples.

Run DMC did not promote or embrace a 'gangsta' lifestyle. Yet he was shot dead. Neither did John Lennon but he died violently as well.

Oh you mean Jam Master Jay? Yeah... I see what you mean and I did hear him say that it was only against one rapper.

OperatingThetan said:

2PAC had no problem with the East. Have any of you heard 'One Nation', the compliation that 'Pac was recording at the time of his death? There are several tracks circulating from that (bloody good songs) where 'Pac collaborates with East Coast Artists and makes it very clear there is no beef with the East.

'Pac's problem was with one individual. Geographical location had nothing to do with it. They could have just as easily been in the West. Suge and other rappers may have contributed to that shit, but not 2PAC.

The East/West rivalry had nothing to do with 'Pacs death, IMO. It is connecting two events that have no bearing upon one another. You don't murder someone you threatened to kill on record. Both sides issued threats. Gang members may have involved themselves, but lets face it, no attempts were made on anybody apart from 2PAC and Biggie. Biggie may have been killed due to a misconception, and his visiting the West at a volatile time (not the most intelligent idea), but I doubt he was responsible for murdering his old friend, no matter what was going down.

It is simplistic to assert that 'Pacs lifestyle lead to his death. 'Pac never had a criminal record before he made a record. He was shot initially, in the lobby of a recording studio, with Biggie, once his best friend, present. Yes, 2PAC had to play a more 'gangsta' persona for Death Row Records, but earlier albums rarely if at all, reflect this stance. You have to consider that 'Pac had been shot up, imprisoned injustly and was angry. He hit back on wax. If he had genuinely wanted 'street retribution' he could have easily got that. Biggie's death followed 2PAC's. This whole beef hardly benefited them.

I don't take Biggie's Mothers assertions seriously, because 'Pac was selling records well before the beef. In fact, toward the end he knew he was being conned by Death Row.

How many 'gangsta' rappers do you know who have been murdered due to their lyrical (or otherwise) embracing of the 'lifestyle'? Very few. Shot on two incidents, both planned?

Snoop was connected with a murder case, as have other rappers such as C-Murder. All are among us.

Jay-Z is alive, yet a known felon.

50 Cent is here, despite being shot nine times and involving himself in numerous beefs and disses.

There are other examples.

Run DMC did not promote or embrace a 'gangsta' lifestyle. Yet he was shot dead. Neither did John Lennon but he died violently as well.

But "criminal record" means nothing, just because Pac had no record didnt mean he didnt live the "life" he on occasions had issues with gangs and things like that, and whether its east or west, gangs are gangs and back in the 90's they were everywhere including having members on the LAPD who covered things up. As for Jam Master Jay, same thing, he had no record, wasnt a "gangsta" but within his circle of friends there were alot. As for Jay and 50 they are both in gated worlds, im sure we all heard Beanie Siegel rip apart Jay for his "so called" gangsta image on record yet when he comes to the hood, he's in the limo protected. John Lennon's death though, was blamed on Lyrics and music he did, if it wasnt for his poilitcal stances, he'd be alive, and that can be said of many killed for their politics.

The blame for these deaths sit within the "lifestyle" the gang element, there was a bigger issue than just the "feud" it was an east coast west coast thing, and big and pac were just the ones used as an excuse for the violence, they were symbolic killings.