TD3 said:

His murder was nothing but some Negro mess, plain and simple. This shit happens everyday, it's happening at this very minute in the black community. You live by the sword, eventually you'll die by it. Tupac wasn't an innocent and it appears he left a trail of enemies real and imagined. He sure wasn't the fresh face kid I saw in the movie "Fresh". As he gained a noted name for himself in Rap/Hip Hop, Tupac made a choice to embraced a warped self-destructive hyper macho bullshit persona that's claimed many a life in our community. Less keep it real.

Who killed Tupac? I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised it's as simple as a . . . because 99.9 % it's this. Black males talk-in' shit and gets waaaaaay out of hand and someone gets really, really, really offended. East Coast vs. West Coat: Negro's taking sides in some delusional mess for which they weren't even apart of. Your quintessential gang mentality talkin' about their territory / my turf - you don't own a brick and not smart enough to make a brick. . . no name fool(s) in the crowd. Let the dead bury the dead.

[Edited 6/17/10 19:44pm]

bboy87 said:

Timmy84 said:

I've sure seen someone say that lmao

I wonder why Mobb Deep and 'em were dissing Pac for though...

and The Fugees did too. That's why Pac was goin' after ALL OF THEM

That's why I laughed when Wyclef or Nas appeared on posthumous releases because Pac didn't even like them and made it known

But 2pac hated Jay-Z far worse. And for good reason. He knew years beforehand that Jay-Z was trying to hook up with rogue Freemasons & pro-Zionists.

missfee said:

Who knows...maybe Puffy paid Suge to set the whole thing up with Tupac. Then Puffy doesn't pay up like he originally agreed to or at the very least didn't pay the amount agreed upon..so for pay back, Suge sets up the murder of Biggie...Puff's cash cow.

Both Sean Combs & Suge Knight were pawns of The Powers That Be. Even today, Sean is far deeper into that foolishness than Suge ever was. Why do you think 2pac never wanted The Outlawz to sign with Death Row Records but instead wait until 2pac created his own label?!?

In the eyes of The Powers That Be, 2pac was already good as dead either way because he "broke the oath" the moment he publicly outed Dr. Dre's bisexuality on the down low. 2pac also tried to outed Quincy Jones' bisexuality a few years earlier when (according to 2pac) Quincy tried to hit on him after finding out that 2pac wanted to date one of Quincy's daughters.

Has anybody read this book...is the author credible?

http://www.citypaper.com/...p?id=20324

babynoz said:

Has anybody read this book...is the author credible?

http://www.citypaper.com/...p?id=20324

I wouldn't dismiss it so easily.

babynoz said:

Has anybody read this book...is the author credible?

http://www.citypaper.com/...p?id=20324

No but I really want to!

TonyVanDam said:

babynoz said:

Has anybody read this book...is the author credible?

http://www.citypaper.com/...p?id=20324

I wouldn't dismiss it so easily.

I wasn't dismissing anything, I was asking a question. Have you read the book or not?

babynoz said:

TonyVanDam said:

I wouldn't dismiss it so easily.

I wasn't dismissing anything, I was asking a question. Have you read the book or not?

Not yet. Have you?

TonyVanDam said:

babynoz said:

I wasn't dismissing anything, I was asking a question. Have you read the book or not?

Not yet. Have you?

Obviously not or I wouldn't be asking...I'm ordering it on Amazon.

TonyVanDam said:

missfee said:

Who knows...maybe Puffy paid Suge to set the whole thing up with Tupac. Then Puffy doesn't pay up like he originally agreed to or at the very least didn't pay the amount agreed upon..so for pay back, Suge sets up the murder of Biggie...Puff's cash cow.

Both Sean Combs & Suge Knight were pawns of The Powers That Be. Even today, Sean is far deeper into that foolishness than Suge ever was. Why do you think 2pac never wanted The Outlawz to sign with Death Row Records but instead wait until 2pac created his own label?!?

In the eyes of The Powers That Be, 2pac was already good as dead either way because he "broke the oath" the moment he publicly outed Dr. Dre's bisexuality on the down low. 2pac also tried to outed Quincy Jones' bisexuality a few years earlier when (according to 2pac) Quincy tried to hit on him after finding out that 2pac wanted to date one of Quincy's daughters.

[Edited 6/19/10 14:15pm]

I love me some tupac but he wasn't innocent either the lifestyle he led hurt him in the end and I always have a feeling that somebody is going to knock diddy off one of these days. With the tupac death , shyne diddy be into too much.

[Edited 6/19/10 16:38pm]

what did the fugees say?

Paris9748430 said:

TonyVanDam said:

Both Sean Combs & Suge Knight were pawns of The Powers That Be. Even today, Sean is far deeper into that foolishness than Suge ever was. Why do you think 2pac never wanted The Outlawz to sign with Death Row Records but instead wait until 2pac created his own label?!?

In the eyes of The Powers That Be, 2pac was already good as dead either way because he "broke the oath" the moment he publicly outed Dr. Dre's bisexuality on the down low. 2pac also tried to outed Quincy Jones' bisexuality a few years earlier when (according to 2pac) Quincy tried to hit on him after finding out that 2pac wanted to date one of Quincy's daughters.

[Edited 6/19/10 14:15pm]

Laugh now, cry later. THAT is the story that has been told.

As far as the '94 shooting, it was indeed a set up. I forgot his name, but Pac mentioned this dude Jacque (probably an alias) in the VIBE interview he was hanging with while in NY doing Above The Rim. They were cool in the beginning but there was some static between them later on and these dudes gunned down Pac at Quad.

What made Pac upset was a bunch of things:

1. This guy was known by folks in NY as being shady (probably a fed), and folks knew that there was a contract hit out for Pac, but nobody warned Pac. Pac even mentioned that Biggie Smalls even knew this dude was foul.

2. The guys (Stretch and the other dude) Pac was with during the shooting wasn't touched.

3. There was a bunch of industry folks there at Quad that night (including Bad Boy), why didn't these dudes rob them also. You can understand Pac's rage better that this wasn't no ordinary robbery.

**4. Ready To Die was Pac/Thug Life-influenced, yet Biggie was repping Bad Boy and Puffy hard, giving no respect or tribute to Pac and THUG LIFE.

5. After the shooting he goes to Dannemora, while in jail Biggie is successful with a Pac-sounding album and Biggie didn't visit him in jail, people are calling him a rapist, Wendy Williams put out the rumor of "Tupac was raped in jail", Chino XL adds fuel to the fire about the rumor.

Does this mean that Bad Boy was directly involved? No, but sadly they're guilty by association, they're all New York dudes.

**Now I'm not going to say that Pac was innocent, he blew up that Biggie issue because Pac was a dramatic person and when he signed to Death Row, Death Row and Suge saw a publicity angle to the sells of Pac album, so they blew it up even more to make money. I always laugh in I hear rappers talk about the media created East Coast/West Coast thing, everybody tried to profit off of that.

Dr. Dre is bi? What????????

Nah...can't believe that.

If any of them dudes are DL it's that Sug Knight character. Something real moleterish about him. Well....maybe Diddy too. He kinda got that "fuck anything that moves" swagger about him.

I swear of all the rap/producer stars of the 90s that had to get shot....why Biggie or Pac? If anybody needed to get wasted it should have been fuckin' Irv Gotti. Eww he's so unlikeable on so many levels.

thatruth said:

As far as the '94 shooting, it was indeed a set up. I forgot his name, but Pac mentioned this dude Jacque (probably an alias) in the VIBE interview he was hanging with while in NY doing Above The Rim. They were cool in the beginning but there was some static between them later on and these dudes gunned down Pac at Quad.

What made Pac upset was a bunch of things:

1. This guy was known by folks in NY as being shady (probably a fed), and folks knew that there was a contract hit out for Pac, but nobody warned Pac. Pac even mentioned that Biggie Smalls even knew this dude was foul.

2. The guys (Stretch and the other dude) Pac was with during the shooting wasn't touched.

3. There was a bunch of industry folks there at Quad that night (including Bad Boy), why didn't these dudes rob them also. You can understand Pac's rage better that this wasn't no ordinary robbery.

**4. Ready To Die was Pac/Thug Life-influenced, yet Biggie was repping Bad Boy and Puffy hard, giving no respect or tribute to Pac and THUG LIFE.

5. After the shooting he goes to Dannemora, while in jail Biggie is successful with a Pac-sounding album and Biggie didn't visit him in jail, people are calling him a rapist, Wendy Williams put out the rumor of "Tupac was raped in jail", Chino XL adds fuel to the fire about the rumor.

Does this mean that Bad Boy was directly involved? No, but sadly they're guilty by association, they're all New York dudes.

**Now I'm not going to say that Pac was innocent, he blew up that Biggie issue because Pac was a dramatic person and when he signed to Death Row, Death Row and Suge saw a publicity angle to the sells of Pac album, so they blew it up even more to make money. I always laugh in I hear rappers talk about the media created East Coast/West Coast thing, everybody tried to profit off of that.

........including rogue Freemasons, occultists, and (especially) pro-Zionists.

Sad but true.

DesireeNevermind said:

Dr. Dre is bi? What????????

Nah...can't believe that.

If any of them dudes are DL it's that Sug Knight character. Something real moleterish about him. Well....maybe Diddy too. He kinda got that "fuck anything that moves" swagger about him.

I swear of all the rap/producer stars of the 90s that had to get shot....why Biggie or Pac? If anybody needed to get wasted it should have been fuckin' Irv Gotti. Eww he's so unlikeable on so many levels.

That's right, and you heard it right here in the org first. Dr. Dre is bisexual on a down low. Not only did Suge & 2pac knew about it, but even the late Eric "Eazy-E" Wright knew about it. And don't dismiss the possibility the Eminem & 50 Cent knows this as well

But to his credit AND blame, 2pac was THE first celebrity to outed Dre, which was something no other person within mainstream OR underground hip-hop have ever done.

TonyVanDam said:

DesireeNevermind said:

Dr. Dre is bi? What????????

Nah...can't believe that.

If any of them dudes are DL it's that Sug Knight character. Something real moleterish about him. Well....maybe Diddy too. He kinda got that "fuck anything that moves" swagger about him.

I swear of all the rap/producer stars of the 90s that had to get shot....why Biggie or Pac? If anybody needed to get wasted it should have been fuckin' Irv Gotti. Eww he's so unlikeable on so many levels.

That's right, and you heard it right here in the org first. Dr. Dre is bisexual on a down low. Not only did Suge & 2pac knew about it, but even the late Eric "Eazy-E" Wright knew about it. And don't dismiss the possibility the Eminem & 50 Cent knows this as well

But to his credit AND blame, 2pac was THE first celebrity to outed Dre, which was something no other person within mainstream OR underground hip-hop have ever done.

Dayum! I honestly never heard that shit before. I've only ever heard about his outside kids and how he supposedly roughs up women.

Now that makes me think that several people had their hand in assassinating Pac. I mean if he knew so many people's secrets well.....can't let a man who knows your dirt live too long right?

TonyVanDam said:

Paris9748430 said:

[Edited 6/19/10 14:15pm]

Laugh now, cry later. THAT is the story that has been told.

Lots of stories have been told. Like the one about the old lady who lived in the shoe.

Apparently, she had so many children, she didn't know what to do.

I believe Suge Knight killed 2PAC and ordered the hit. There are several lines of evidence pointing toward this, plus official legal documents. Google it and you'll find credible sources within the crap. These are just some of the lines of evidence pointing toward Suge:

2PAC had delivered his third album and was preparing to leave Death Row. A legal letter had been sent to that effect. On 2PAC's death certificate he is listed as an employee of 'Euthanasia', not Death Row.

2PAC was on the verge of discovering he had been conned out of $9 million while at Death Row. His actual holdings were very little. His cars were leased. His profits were going towards maintaining Suge Knight and associates lifestyle. In one incident, funds from 2PAC were used to pay for Nate Doggs child support. Before his death he discovered his likeness was being used on merchandise without his reimbursment. His legal rep was investigating further.

As there were tensions between 'PAC and Death Row and he intended to leave, 2PAC attempted to get some recordings from an all-night session. He was blocked from Death Row studios and given legal notice by I believe Kenner, a legal rep of Death Row.

2PAC did not want to go to Vegas on the night of the shooting. However, he had promised Suge he would attend and when 'PAC attempted to cancel and see to a family matter instead, Suge insisted. 2PAC reluctantly attended, a decision which would lead to his death. The reasons why he attended to during a volatile situation is unknown. But Suge had said that he and 'PAC had things to 'discuss'. Likely 2PAC felt he could come to a resolution with Suge.

There are allegations that Suge suggested 'PAC remove his bullet-proof vest due to the 'heat'. Perhaps 'PAC took it off by his own volition, perhaps not. Yet again, the visit to Vegas plus the lack of vest lead to 2PAC's death. None of the bullets were head-shots. All lethal wounds were to 2PAC's torso.

Alegedly, Suge insisted 'PAC ride in his vehicle rather than his own. Again, 2PAC's decision to ride in the car lead to his death. This is the third such 'coincidence' pointing to Suge.

Depending on the witnesses it has been suggested that upon seeing the gun-men 2PAC attempted to jump into the back of the vehicle. It has been claimed that Suge held him in position for the shooters. Regardless, he was in the rear of the vehicle when he was attended to by paramedics.

Suge claimed to have been 'shot in the head'. However, he had only sustained a surface wound. Clearly, the assailants had trained their guns on 2PAC.

Suge u-turned (perhaps sensible to escape the assasins) but then continued to drive by a number of hospitals with blown tires until apprehended by the police. During this critical period 2PAC suffered major blood loss.

Suge refused to co-operate in 2PAC's murder investigation, despite being the closest to the shooter. The only member of the Outlawz (Kadafi I believe) willing to help the police was shot dead in the back of the head shortly after. Here, I am aware of the 'code of silence' but it appears Suge made little or no attempt to exact retribution.

Orlando has been suggested due to the lobby altercation, but it was Suge who pointed Orlando out. After the beating Orlando is seen relaxed and laughing on CCTV.

It is likely Suge felt he could profit from 2PAC's recordings released posthumously. This certainly explains his reluctance to hand them over. For better or worse (in terms of remixing and alterations) Afeni Shakur managed to secure the recordings, but it is unlikely that this possibilty had entered Suge's mind at the time of the shooting.

Biggie was murdered after suggesting a retaliation or giving credence to it. Note the location of Biggie's hit. Certain investigators traced the murder vehicle back to Suge, but Suge had Police force on his payroll and these had involved themselves with Suge and Death Row at the time. Police moonlighting had often been part of 'PACs security detail. Bribery was rife. Suge probably would have had enough evidence to cost these officers their jobs. Enough to get a murder investigation obstructed.

Note that the hit was specifically on Biggie not Puff Daddy or any of the attending Death Row entourage. The exact same set of circumstances apply to 'PAC's murder even down to the method, means and circumstances.

The fact remains that Tupac never wanted to sign to Death Row in the first place. Suge tried to get him to sign during the Above the Rim era, and Pac turned him down, ultimately giving him two songs for the soundtrack.

For Pac , being in jail was like being dead, so he felt like he didnt have a choice.

I believe Suge was the one who made him believe Puffy and Biggie were behind the shooting. Granted there were some shady circumstances, regarding Stretch and some of the other people involved, but I dont think Puff had anything to do with it.

Suge Knight used Tupac like a pawn, and when Pac was ready to leave Death Row, he had him killed, he was worth more $ dead than alive and gone from the label. However without getting into conspiracy theories, I believe Pac was well aware of what was gonna happen. Whether you believe he is alive or dead is your own buisness, Im just saying that Pac knew what was up.

Tupac has been one of my biggest influences, not only musically but in life in general. Being poor and not having my real father around, Pac's music became my soundtrack and helped make me a man.

I miss the music and the man all the time, and wonder how the industry would have been today if he were still with us.

[Edited 6/20/10 8:35am]

OperatingThetan said:

I believe Suge Knight killed 2PAC and ordered the hit. There are several lines of evidence pointing toward this, plus official legal documents. Google it and you'll find credible sources within the crap. These are just some of the lines of evidence pointing toward Suge:

2PAC had delivered his third album and was preparing to leave Death Row. A legal letter had been sent to that effect. On 2PAC's death certificate he is listed as an employee of 'Euthanasia', not Death Row.

2PAC was on the verge of discovering he had been conned out of $9 million while at Death Row. His actual holdings were very little. His cars were leased. His profits were going towards maintaining Suge Knight and associates lifestyle. In one incident, funds from 2PAC were used to pay for Nate Doggs child support. Before his death he discovered his likeness was being used on merchandise without his reimbursment. His legal rep was investigating further.

As there were tensions between 'PAC and Death Row and he intended to leave, 2PAC attempted to get some recordings from an all-night session. He was blocked from Death Row studios and given legal notice by I believe Kenner, a legal rep of Death Row.

2PAC did not want to go to Vegas on the night of the shooting. However, he had promised Suge he would attend and when 'PAC attempted to cancel and see to a family matter instead, Suge insisted. 2PAC reluctantly attended, a decision which would lead to his death. The reasons why he attended to during a volatile situation is unknown. But Suge had said that he and 'PAC had things to 'discuss'. Likely 2PAC felt he could come to a resolution with Suge.

There are allegations that Suge suggested 'PAC remove his bullet-proof vest due to the 'heat'. Perhaps 'PAC took it off by his own volition, perhaps not. Yet again, the visit to Vegas plus the lack of vest lead to 2PAC's death. None of the bullets were head-shots. All lethal wounds were to 2PAC's torso.

Alegedly, Suge insisted 'PAC ride in his vehicle rather than his own. Again, 2PAC's decision to ride in the car lead to his death. This is the third such 'coincidence' pointing to Suge.

Depending on the witnesses it has been suggested that upon seeing the gun-men 2PAC attempted to jump into the back of the vehicle. It has been claimed that Suge held him in position for the shooters. Regardless, he was in the rear of the vehicle when he was attended to by paramedics.

Suge claimed to have been 'shot in the head'. However, he had only sustained a surface wound. Clearly, the assailants had trained their guns on 2PAC.

Suge u-turned (perhaps sensible to escape the assasins) but then continued to drive by a number of hospitals with blown tires until apprehended by the police. During this critical period 2PAC suffered major blood loss.

Suge refused to co-operate in 2PAC's murder investigation, despite being the closest to the shooter. The only member of the Outlawz (Kadafi I believe) willing to help the police was shot dead in the back of the head shortly after. Here, I am aware of the 'code of silence' but it appears Suge made little or no attempt to exact retribution.

Orlando has been suggested due to the lobby altercation, but it was Suge who pointed Orlando out. After the beating Orlando is seen relaxed and laughing on CCTV.

It is likely Suge felt he could profit from 2PAC's recordings released posthumously. This certainly explains his reluctance to hand them over. For better or worse (in terms of remixing and alterations) Afeni Shakur managed to secure the recordings, but it is unlikely that this possibilty had entered Suge's mind at the time of the shooting.

Biggie was murdered after suggesting a retaliation or giving credence to it. Note the location of Biggie's hit. Certain investigators traced the murder vehicle back to Suge, but Suge had Police force on his payroll and these had involved themselves with Suge and Death Row at the time. Police moonlighting had often been part of 'PACs security detail. Bribery was rife. Suge probably would have had enough evidence to cost these officers their jobs. Enough to get a murder investigation obstructed.

Note that the hit was specifically on Biggie not Puff Daddy or any of the attending Death Row entourage. The exact same set of circumstances apply to 'PAC's murder even down to the method, means and circumstances.

You only forgot the part about Suge's Rep. instructing Tupac's security detail to make changes to how they usually guarded Tupac, at the last minute, to only one unarmed guard, riding in another car.

NewPowerToad said:

The fact remains that Tupac never wanted to sign to Death Row in the first place. Suge tried to get him to sign during the Above the Rim era, and Pac turned him down, ultimately giving him two songs for the soundtrack.

For Pac , being in jail was like being dead, so he felt like he didnt have a choice.

I believe Suge was the one who made him believe Puffy and Biggie were behind the shooting. Granted there were some shady circumstances, regarding Stretch and some of the other people involved, but I dont think Puff had anything to do with it.

Suge Knight used Tupac like a pawn, and when Pac was ready to leave Death Row, he had him killed, he was worth more $ dead than alive and gone from the label. However without getting into conspiracy theories, I believe Pac was well aware of what was gonna happen. Whether you believe he is alive or dead is your own buisness, Im just saying that Pac knew what was up.

Tupac has been one of my biggest influences, not only musically but in life in general. Being poor and not having my real father around, Pac's music became my soundtrack and helped make me a man.

I miss the music and the man all the time, and wonder how the industry would have been today if he were still with us.

[Edited 6/20/10 8:35am]

I agree with everything except the part about Diddy. I think he had something to do with the first shooting AND I think he had something to do with the second shooting AND I think Biggie was killed because he either found out or was just about to OR to ensure Diddy continued to keep his mouth shut!

.

[Edited 6/20/10 9:09am]

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

NewPowerToad said:

The fact remains that Tupac never wanted to sign to Death Row in the first place. Suge tried to get him to sign during the Above the Rim era, and Pac turned him down, ultimately giving him two songs for the soundtrack.

For Pac , being in jail was like being dead, so he felt like he didnt have a choice.

I believe Suge was the one who made him believe Puffy and Biggie were behind the shooting. Granted there were some shady circumstances, regarding Stretch and some of the other people involved, but I dont think Puff had anything to do with it.

Suge Knight used Tupac like a pawn, and when Pac was ready to leave Death Row, he had him killed, he was worth more $ dead than alive and gone from the label. However without getting into conspiracy theories, I believe Pac was well aware of what was gonna happen. Whether you believe he is alive or dead is your own buisness, Im just saying that Pac knew what was up.

Tupac has been one of my biggest influences, not only musically but in life in general. Being poor and not having my real father around, Pac's music became my soundtrack and helped make me a man.

I miss the music and the man all the time, and wonder how the industry would have been today if he were still with us.

[Edited 6/20/10 8:35am]

I agree with everything except the part about Diddy. I think he had something to do with the first shooting AND I think he had something to do with the second shooting AND I think Biggie was killed because he either found out or was just about to OR to ensure Diddy continued to his mouth shut!

.

[Edited 6/20/10 9:08am]

See it's hard for me to believe that, but I understand what you are saying. I do think that Diddy used Biggie as much if not more than Suge used Pac. I just figured Diddy would have been smart to have a nice catalog of Biggies music before he cut off the $ tree.

Either way, it's so fucking senseless. Tragic.

NewPowerToad said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

I agree with everything except the part about Diddy. I think he had something to do with the first shooting AND I think he had something to do with the second shooting AND I think Biggie was killed because he either found out or was just about to OR to ensure Diddy continued to his mouth shut!

.

[Edited 6/20/10 9:08am]

See it's hard for me to believe that, but I understand what you are saying. I do think that Diddy used Biggie as much if not more than Suge used Pac. I just figured Diddy would have been smart to have a nice catalog of Biggies music before he cut off the $ tree.

Either way, it's so fucking senseless. Tragic.

I thought so, too. That's why I think Biggie's murder was just a ruthless message for Diddy to keep his mouth shut about what happened to Tupac.

But, yeah...Either way, it's so fucking senseless. Tragic.

Suge used Pac. I think everyone (and even Pac himself) knew that.

OperatingThetan said:

I believe Suge Knight killed 2PAC and ordered the hit. There are several lines of evidence pointing toward this, plus official legal documents. Google it and you'll find credible sources within the crap. These are just some of the lines of evidence pointing toward Suge:

2PAC had delivered his third album and was preparing to leave Death Row. A legal letter had been sent to that effect. On 2PAC's death certificate he is listed as an employee of 'Euthanasia', not Death Row.

2PAC was on the verge of discovering he had been conned out of $9 million while at Death Row. His actual holdings were very little. His cars were leased. His profits were going towards maintaining Suge Knight and associates lifestyle. In one incident, funds from 2PAC were used to pay for Nate Doggs child support. Before his death he discovered his likeness was being used on merchandise without his reimbursment. His legal rep was investigating further.

As there were tensions between 'PAC and Death Row and he intended to leave, 2PAC attempted to get some recordings from an all-night session. He was blocked from Death Row studios and given legal notice by I believe Kenner, a legal rep of Death Row.

2PAC did not want to go to Vegas on the night of the shooting. However, he had promised Suge he would attend and when 'PAC attempted to cancel and see to a family matter instead, Suge insisted. 2PAC reluctantly attended, a decision which would lead to his death. The reasons why he attended to during a volatile situation is unknown. But Suge had said that he and 'PAC had things to 'discuss'. Likely 2PAC felt he could come to a resolution with Suge.

There are allegations that Suge suggested 'PAC remove his bullet-proof vest due to the 'heat'. Perhaps 'PAC took it off by his own volition, perhaps not. Yet again, the visit to Vegas plus the lack of vest lead to 2PAC's death. None of the bullets were head-shots. All lethal wounds were to 2PAC's torso.

Alegedly, Suge insisted 'PAC ride in his vehicle rather than his own. Again, 2PAC's decision to ride in the car lead to his death. This is the third such 'coincidence' pointing to Suge.

Depending on the witnesses it has been suggested that upon seeing the gun-men 2PAC attempted to jump into the back of the vehicle. It has been claimed that Suge held him in position for the shooters. Regardless, he was in the rear of the vehicle when he was attended to by paramedics.

Suge claimed to have been 'shot in the head'. However, he had only sustained a surface wound. Clearly, the assailants had trained their guns on 2PAC.

Suge u-turned (perhaps sensible to escape the assasins) but then continued to drive by a number of hospitals with blown tires until apprehended by the police. During this critical period 2PAC suffered major blood loss.

Suge refused to co-operate in 2PAC's murder investigation, despite being the closest to the shooter. The only member of the Outlawz (Kadafi I believe) willing to help the police was shot dead in the back of the head shortly after. Here, I am aware of the 'code of silence' but it appears Suge made little or no attempt to exact retribution.

Orlando has been suggested due to the lobby altercation, but it was Suge who pointed Orlando out. After the beating Orlando is seen relaxed and laughing on CCTV.

It is likely Suge felt he could profit from 2PAC's recordings released posthumously. This certainly explains his reluctance to hand them over. For better or worse (in terms of remixing and alterations) Afeni Shakur managed to secure the recordings, but it is unlikely that this possibilty had entered Suge's mind at the time of the shooting.

Biggie was murdered after suggesting a retaliation or giving credence to it. Note the location of Biggie's hit. Certain investigators traced the murder vehicle back to Suge, but Suge had Police force on his payroll and these had involved themselves with Suge and Death Row at the time. Police moonlighting had often been part of 'PACs security detail. Bribery was rife. Suge probably would have had enough evidence to cost these officers their jobs. Enough to get a murder investigation obstructed.

Note that the hit was specifically on Biggie not Puff Daddy or any of the attending Death Row entourage. The exact same set of circumstances apply to 'PAC's murder even down to the method, means and circumstances.

I hate to say this because I don't like Suge myself, but he's now used as a scapegoat. Suge didn't order the hit but he knows who did.

Pac had issues with Death Row and Interscope because he assumed that this was a 100% Black-owned company, or he thought that this was a record company in which Blacks had some control and power.

He was sadly mistaken.

Death Row was started by Dick Griffey (Solar Records), Harry-O (an incarcerated black gangster from LA) and his defense attorney David Kenner, Dre and Suge.

Dre and Suge took Griffey's name off as a partner and co-signed a deal with Interscope. (Big Mistake)

David Kenner was a well-connected criminal attorney and he got Harry-O's percentage of the company.

Dre wanted out, but he signed contracts in which he had to sign over his masters if he wanted to leave.

Suge and Kenner handled the business and fiances (they made the money along with Interscope)

Artists on Death Row signed bad contracts, but what had Pac different from the others was that he was working around the clock, he filled his quota for the company.

Pac wanted Suge to completely independent, Suge was probably down but he was so caught up in the fame, money, power, women, etc., he wasn't focused like Pac.

Pac had a vision for Death Row to be independent, Death Row East, film company, Pac's own label and artist, management, night club, clothing line, alcohol company, etc. (Sounds familiar)

Suge signed contracts that made him "a partner" with Kenner and Interscope, he was rich but he didn't have any power (Suge only thought he had power).

So for him to kill Pac would only hurt him instead of help him, that's why I believe Suge didn't order anything. Who did? Follow the money.

[Edited 6/20/10 11:57am]

thatruth said:

OperatingThetan said:

I believe Suge Knight killed 2PAC and ordered the hit. There are several lines of evidence pointing toward this, plus official legal documents. Google it and you'll find credible sources within the crap. These are just some of the lines of evidence pointing toward Suge:

2PAC had delivered his third album and was preparing to leave Death Row. A legal letter had been sent to that effect. On 2PAC's death certificate he is listed as an employee of 'Euthanasia', not Death Row.

2PAC was on the verge of discovering he had been conned out of $9 million while at Death Row. His actual holdings were very little. His cars were leased. His profits were going towards maintaining Suge Knight and associates lifestyle. In one incident, funds from 2PAC were used to pay for Nate Doggs child support. Before his death he discovered his likeness was being used on merchandise without his reimbursment. His legal rep was investigating further.

As there were tensions between 'PAC and Death Row and he intended to leave, 2PAC attempted to get some recordings from an all-night session. He was blocked from Death Row studios and given legal notice by I believe Kenner, a legal rep of Death Row.

2PAC did not want to go to Vegas on the night of the shooting. However, he had promised Suge he would attend and when 'PAC attempted to cancel and see to a family matter instead, Suge insisted. 2PAC reluctantly attended, a decision which would lead to his death. The reasons why he attended to during a volatile situation is unknown. But Suge had said that he and 'PAC had things to 'discuss'. Likely 2PAC felt he could come to a resolution with Suge.

There are allegations that Suge suggested 'PAC remove his bullet-proof vest due to the 'heat'. Perhaps 'PAC took it off by his own volition, perhaps not. Yet again, the visit to Vegas plus the lack of vest lead to 2PAC's death. None of the bullets were head-shots. All lethal wounds were to 2PAC's torso.

Alegedly, Suge insisted 'PAC ride in his vehicle rather than his own. Again, 2PAC's decision to ride in the car lead to his death. This is the third such 'coincidence' pointing to Suge.

Depending on the witnesses it has been suggested that upon seeing the gun-men 2PAC attempted to jump into the back of the vehicle. It has been claimed that Suge held him in position for the shooters. Regardless, he was in the rear of the vehicle when he was attended to by paramedics.

Suge claimed to have been 'shot in the head'. However, he had only sustained a surface wound. Clearly, the assailants had trained their guns on 2PAC.

Suge u-turned (perhaps sensible to escape the assasins) but then continued to drive by a number of hospitals with blown tires until apprehended by the police. During this critical period 2PAC suffered major blood loss.

Suge refused to co-operate in 2PAC's murder investigation, despite being the closest to the shooter. The only member of the Outlawz (Kadafi I believe) willing to help the police was shot dead in the back of the head shortly after. Here, I am aware of the 'code of silence' but it appears Suge made little or no attempt to exact retribution.

Orlando has been suggested due to the lobby altercation, but it was Suge who pointed Orlando out. After the beating Orlando is seen relaxed and laughing on CCTV.

It is likely Suge felt he could profit from 2PAC's recordings released posthumously. This certainly explains his reluctance to hand them over. For better or worse (in terms of remixing and alterations) Afeni Shakur managed to secure the recordings, but it is unlikely that this possibilty had entered Suge's mind at the time of the shooting.

Biggie was murdered after suggesting a retaliation or giving credence to it. Note the location of Biggie's hit. Certain investigators traced the murder vehicle back to Suge, but Suge had Police force on his payroll and these had involved themselves with Suge and Death Row at the time. Police moonlighting had often been part of 'PACs security detail. Bribery was rife. Suge probably would have had enough evidence to cost these officers their jobs. Enough to get a murder investigation obstructed.

Note that the hit was specifically on Biggie not Puff Daddy or any of the attending Death Row entourage. The exact same set of circumstances apply to 'PAC's murder even down to the method, means and circumstances.

I hate to say this because I don't like Suge myself, but he's now used as a scapegoat. Suge didn't order the hit but he knows who did.

Pac had issues with Death Row and Interscope because he assumed that this was a 100% Black-owned company, or he thought that this was a record company in which Blacks had some control and power.

He was sadly mistaken.

Death Row was started by Dick Griffey (Solar Records), Harry-O (an incarcerated black gangster from LA) and his defense attorney David Kenner, Dre and Suge.

Dre and Suge took Griffey's name off as a partner and co-signed a deal with Interscope. (Big Mistake)

David Kenner was a well-connected criminal attorney and he got Harry-O's percentage of the company.

Dre wanted out, but he signed contracts in which he had to sign over his masters if he wanted to leave.

Suge and Kenner handled the business and fiances (they made the money along with Interscope)

Artists on Death Row signed bad contracts, but what had Pac different from the others was that he was working around the clock, he filled his quota for the company.

Pac wanted Suge to completely independent, Suge was probably down but he was so caught up in the fame, money, power, women, etc., he wasn't focused like Pac.

Pac had a vision for Death Row to be independent, Death Row East, film company, Pac's own label and artist, management, night club, clothing line, alcohol company, etc. (Sounds familiar)

Suge signed contracts that made him "a partner" with Kenner and Interscope, he was rich but he didn't have any power (Suge only thought he had power).

So for him to kill Pac would only hurt him instead of help him, that's why I believe Suge didn't order anything. Who did? Follow the money.

[Edited 6/20/10 11:57am]

Death Row East was Suge's wet dream! One he was never going to get even if Tupac had lived and wanted to stay with Death Row. Tupac wanted himself to be completely independent and he was working towards that. Suge and the rest of the motherfuckers on that money trail, couldn't allow that because they knew had Tupac lived and accomplised what he was planning, the bucks would have been with him and there are more than a few punk ass bitches on that money trail, whose names we wouldn't even remember now!

.

[Edited 6/20/10 12:19pm]

thatruth said:

OperatingThetan said:

I believe Suge Knight killed 2PAC and ordered the hit. There are several lines of evidence pointing toward this, plus official legal documents. Google it and you'll find credible sources within the crap. These are just some of the lines of evidence pointing toward Suge:

2PAC had delivered his third album and was preparing to leave Death Row. A legal letter had been sent to that effect. On 2PAC's death certificate he is listed as an employee of 'Euthanasia', not Death Row.

2PAC was on the verge of discovering he had been conned out of $9 million while at Death Row. His actual holdings were very little. His cars were leased. His profits were going towards maintaining Suge Knight and associates lifestyle. In one incident, funds from 2PAC were used to pay for Nate Doggs child support. Before his death he discovered his likeness was being used on merchandise without his reimbursment. His legal rep was investigating further.

As there were tensions between 'PAC and Death Row and he intended to leave, 2PAC attempted to get some recordings from an all-night session. He was blocked from Death Row studios and given legal notice by I believe Kenner, a legal rep of Death Row.

2PAC did not want to go to Vegas on the night of the shooting. However, he had promised Suge he would attend and when 'PAC attempted to cancel and see to a family matter instead, Suge insisted. 2PAC reluctantly attended, a decision which would lead to his death. The reasons why he attended to during a volatile situation is unknown. But Suge had said that he and 'PAC had things to 'discuss'. Likely 2PAC felt he could come to a resolution with Suge.

There are allegations that Suge suggested 'PAC remove his bullet-proof vest due to the 'heat'. Perhaps 'PAC took it off by his own volition, perhaps not. Yet again, the visit to Vegas plus the lack of vest lead to 2PAC's death. None of the bullets were head-shots. All lethal wounds were to 2PAC's torso.

Alegedly, Suge insisted 'PAC ride in his vehicle rather than his own. Again, 2PAC's decision to ride in the car lead to his death. This is the third such 'coincidence' pointing to Suge.

Depending on the witnesses it has been suggested that upon seeing the gun-men 2PAC attempted to jump into the back of the vehicle. It has been claimed that Suge held him in position for the shooters. Regardless, he was in the rear of the vehicle when he was attended to by paramedics.

Suge claimed to have been 'shot in the head'. However, he had only sustained a surface wound. Clearly, the assailants had trained their guns on 2PAC.

Suge u-turned (perhaps sensible to escape the assasins) but then continued to drive by a number of hospitals with blown tires until apprehended by the police. During this critical period 2PAC suffered major blood loss.

Suge refused to co-operate in 2PAC's murder investigation, despite being the closest to the shooter. The only member of the Outlawz (Kadafi I believe) willing to help the police was shot dead in the back of the head shortly after. Here, I am aware of the 'code of silence' but it appears Suge made little or no attempt to exact retribution.

Orlando has been suggested due to the lobby altercation, but it was Suge who pointed Orlando out. After the beating Orlando is seen relaxed and laughing on CCTV.

It is likely Suge felt he could profit from 2PAC's recordings released posthumously. This certainly explains his reluctance to hand them over. For better or worse (in terms of remixing and alterations) Afeni Shakur managed to secure the recordings, but it is unlikely that this possibilty had entered Suge's mind at the time of the shooting.

Biggie was murdered after suggesting a retaliation or giving credence to it. Note the location of Biggie's hit. Certain investigators traced the murder vehicle back to Suge, but Suge had Police force on his payroll and these had involved themselves with Suge and Death Row at the time. Police moonlighting had often been part of 'PACs security detail. Bribery was rife. Suge probably would have had enough evidence to cost these officers their jobs. Enough to get a murder investigation obstructed.

Note that the hit was specifically on Biggie not Puff Daddy or any of the attending Death Row entourage. The exact same set of circumstances apply to 'PAC's murder even down to the method, means and circumstances.

I hate to say this because I don't like Suge myself, but he's now used as a scapegoat. Suge didn't order the hit but he knows who did.

Pac had issues with Death Row and Interscope because he assumed that this was a 100% Black-owned company, or he thought that this was a record company in which Blacks had some control and power.

He was sadly mistaken.

Death Row was started by Dick Griffey (Solar Records), Harry-O (an incarcerated black gangster from LA) and his defense attorney David Kenner, Dre and Suge.

Dre and Suge took Griffey's name off as a partner and co-signed a deal with Interscope. (Big Mistake)

David Kenner was a well-connected criminal attorney and he got Harry-O's percentage of the company.

Dre wanted out, but he signed contracts in which he had to sign over his masters if he wanted to leave.

Suge and Kenner handled the business and fiances (they made the money along with Interscope)

Artists on Death Row signed bad contracts, but what had Pac different from the others was that he was working around the clock, he filled his quota for the company.

Pac wanted Suge to completely independent, Suge was probably down but he was so caught up in the fame, money, power, women, etc., he wasn't focused like Pac.

Pac had a vision for Death Row to be independent, Death Row East, film company, Pac's own label and artist, management, night club, clothing line, alcohol company, etc. (Sounds familiar)

Suge signed contracts that made him "a partner" with Kenner and Interscope, he was rich but he didn't have any power (Suge only thought he had power).

So for him to kill Pac would only hurt him instead of help him, that's why I believe Suge didn't order anything. Who did? Follow the money.

[Edited 6/20/10 11:57am]

With his vast catalog, Pac dead on Death Row was worth way more to Suge then Pac Alive on his own. Pac's vision was for Euphanasia Records, away from Death Row. He gambled on his own life, when he let Suge bail him out of jail, and knowingly sold his soul. He just didn't get out in time.

I don't think Suge was a scapegoat. He was a shady ass con-man who used violence when ever he felt was neccessary. David Kenner was behind alot of the crooked dealings, but Suge thought he was the King of the World.