vainandy said:

Harlepolis said:

Call me crazy, I hear some elements from country music that can have some connections with black music.

I've always wondered which came first, country or the blues. I hear similarities in both and both are as old as the hills.

Blues is black. Country is white. And yet, they sound a lot more like biracial twins in their earlier original form.

I can NEVER hate or diss Ray Charles & Lionel Ritchie for sounding country at times.

And BTW, I'm convince that both genes are older than gospel & jazz.

poetcorner61 said:

A Brief History of Black Americans in Country Music

by Michael Shan

Did you know that the black voice twang of country music existed in the early 1900's. Yes, black country singers played "Honky-Tonk" music. Please... Read on, for the interesting history and facts, that the everyday person is unaware of in the country music foundation.

• Fact #1- I bet the first thought that came to mind was the well-known country star "Charlie Pride", was that close?
• Fact #2- Have you ever heard of "Rufe "Tee-Tot" Payne"? I didn't think so...He was a regular around the Greenville,Alabama area and performed as a street musician in the 1920s. In the 1930s he was the mentor to "King Hiram Williams", that's right! The person we would know as "Hank Williams". Believe it or not he was taught to play country music by a black man somewhat unknown to the public. Anyone, out there that has more info on Tee-Tot, I would love to hear it.
• Fact #3- DeFord Bailey was a contemporary of Rufe "Tee-Tot" Payne. In actuality, he is probably and should be the first noted black country music star because he joined the cast of the "Grand Ole Opry" at the age of 26. He had made a number of appearances as other acts on the radio show, and toured cities all across the south and the midwest within several years after the opry scene. He was suddenly let go! This was the statement made by DeFord Bailey in a interview in 1993, “They'd seen the day was coming when they'd have to pay me right and they used the excuse about me playing the same old tunes.” The interview was held by the University of Tennessee Press.
• Fact #4- "Blind Lemon Jefferson", whom was a blind musician had over 400 country hits. The fact is many of the early white country stars got their style and songs from such black artists.
• Fact #5- "J.J. Jones" he performed in the 1970s side bands which backed George Jones, Mel Tillis, and other country stars in the country music business. He once cut a album but it was never released and devotes all his time nowdays backing other black talent.
• Fact #6- "Ray Charles" actually sang country in his early years of music and he loved it till the day he died. He said he liked it because every song told a story.
• Fact #7- "Kurt Cobain" and "Johnny Cash" admired an black artist known as "Leadbelly".
• Fact #8- A huge country music singer sensation in Europe and Germany is a black country singer known as "K.C. Williams".
• Fact #9- Has anyone heard of "Cleve Francis", he was a doctor who took a shot at being a black country singer in the 1990s. Unfortunately, the radio industry didn't give him much success.
• Fact #10- This is just a compiled list of other influences that may be unknown or some you may recognize; Carl Ray, Stoney Edwards,Tayo Reed, Cowboy Troy, Big Al Downing, O.B. McClinton, Author Pamela Foster, Frankie Staton, Vicki Vann, Rhonda Towns, Ebony Hillbillies, Buddy and Tina Wright band , Miko Marks, and of course newcomer, "Darius Rucker". Almost done; I have just a few more interesting facts to take with you.
• "Shanai Twain" is one of the only bands with a black drummer.
• "Aaron Neville" is considered country to some people and he did a video remake of George Jones "The Grand Tour". Coffey Anderson was a black contestant on Nashville Star show.
• "Charley Prides" brother Steven Pride is actually a country singer too! Have you ever heard him play? Please, let me know....
• "Elvis" talent came from where? Your right, the black community around Tupelo, Mississppi.
• Last Fact- The banjo was an African instrument brought over by the slaves. It was modified and has been the mainstream music instrument for what genre? You guessed it! Bluegrass and Country music.

Right now, I have reason to believe that the business men of music row are starting to open their minds and may have hands itching. When, I lived in Nashville for about 10 years, I noticed things and one was how I wanted to tap this industry. I had a very close black friend that left everything behind in his hometown in Texas. Looking back, I wished I could have promoted him and helped change the market. Face it! We live in a country that runs after the almighty dollar. If I was to set aside all other views or could help set aside other views in Nashville, I would be a rich man. Note: Right now, Nashville is changing Trini Triggs has a self-titled album that was released in 1998 by MCG/Curb Records which had 3 singles on Billboard and a 4th single by Asylum -Curb Records in 2004. Carl Ray has songs available on www.carlray.com and Rissi Palmer has a hit song that peaked #54 on Billboard Hot Country Songs and her label is 1720 Entertainment / Universal Music Group. Rissi can be seen on CMT video "Country Girl".

Also, there [was] an inspiring country music artist. His name is " AKON " and he is now a R B star. He supposedly recorded an album under an alias name. He is a big country fan and desires to be the best known black country singer artist of all time. We will have to wait it out and see how it goes...

EDIT

TonyVanDam said:

vainandy said:

I've always wondered which came first, country or the blues. I hear similarities in both and both are as old as the hills.

Blues is black. Country is white. And yet, they sound a lot more like biracial twins in their earlier original form.

I can NEVER hate or diss Ray Charles & Lionel Ritchie for sounding country at times.

And BTW, I'm convince that both genes are older than gospel & jazz.

I'm more convinced blues and country are brothers of the same complexion.

[Edited 6/14/10 15:36pm]

TonyVanDam said:

vainandy said:

I've always wondered which came first, country or the blues. I hear similarities in both and both are as old as the hills.

Blues is black. Country is white. And yet, they sound a lot more like biracial twins in their earlier original form.

I can NEVER hate or diss Ray Charles & Lionel Ritchie for sounding country at times.

And BTW, I'm convince that both genes are older than gospel & jazz.

Great album!

[img:$uid]http://www.the9513.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/2009-06-10_ray-charles.jpg[/img:$uid]

Even if he got a helluva flack for recording it.

Also, Little Willie John recorded a gut wrenching version of this country song...

And word to Timmy....

[img:$uid]http://www.spiralvinyl.com/imagelarge.php?id=12346578[/img:$uid]

Another GREAT album

TonyVanDam said:

vainandy said:

I've always wondered which came first, country or the blues. I hear similarities in both and both are as old as the hills.

Blues is black. Country is white. And yet, they sound a lot more like biracial twins in their earlier original form.

I can NEVER hate or diss Ray Charles & Lionel Ritchie for sounding country at times.

And BTW, I'm convince that both genes are older than gospel & jazz.

The reason I wonder which came first is because of slavery. I remember when I saw "Roots" for the first time and saw the character "Fiddler" playing for the slave owner's family and friends. It sounded like country to me but was it what the slave owner previously liked and taught him to play or was it a creation that Fiddler came out with on his own and the slave owner just happened to like it? The white folks would dance around to it but when you'd see the slaves get married "jump the broom" or have a party of their own such as when slavery ended, they danced around to it also so apparently they liked it too.

Then I'd see other movies that would be set in the early 1900s or so, and the black person would play the harmonica which sounded like country or maybe even blues and he would be playing it at a party full of white people.

I've always wondered if whites heard blues, liked it and renamed it country, or if blacks heard country, liked it and renamed it blues. Just going waaaay back and hearing the music, I hear what could be considered country and blues.

sosgemini said:

daPrettyman said:

I had to self-edit. Let's just say, if you are outspoken and not part of the conservative or "Christian" mainstream, well, be ready for a backlash.

Like the Dixie Chicks?

Harlepolis said:

And word to Timmy....

[img:$uid]http://www.spiralvinyl.com/imagelarge.php?id=12346578[/img:$uid]

Another GREAT album

Ihope that no one finds this offensive and this may be common knowledge but supposedly the original name for this album was going to be Step Aside Charlie Pride Give Another N___er A Try.

rialb said:

Harlepolis said:

And word to Timmy....

[img:$uid]http://www.spiralvinyl.com/imagelarge.php?id=12346578[/img:$uid]

Another GREAT album

Ihope that no one finds this offensive and this may be common knowledge but supposedly the original name for this album was going to be Step Aside Charlie Pride Give Another N___er A Try.

That is the LEAST shocking thing I heard from Mr.Bobby Womack, so no I'm no offended

It would've been a funny album title.

noimageatall said:

sosgemini said:

I had to self-edit. Let's just say, if you are outspoken and not part of the conservative or "Christian" mainstream, well, be ready for a backlash.

Like the Dixie Chicks?

Exactly. Sad but true.

But we don't have to feel sorry for The Dixie Chicks at all. They gained new fans to replace most of their original (mostly neo-conservative) fans that turn their backs on them for hating on Bush.

TonyVanDam said:

noimageatall said:

Like the Dixie Chicks?

Exactly. Sad but true.

But we don't have to feel sorry for The Dixie Chicks at all. They gained new fans to replace most of their original (mostly neo-conservative) fans that turn their backs on them for hating on Bush.

The Dixie Chicks are gonna be alright. Whoever dissed them after their comments on Bush weren't fans to begin with.

rialb said:

Harlepolis said:

And word to Timmy....

[img:$uid]http://www.spiralvinyl.com/imagelarge.php?id=12346578[/img:$uid]

Another GREAT album

Ihope that no one finds this offensive and this may be common knowledge but supposedly the original name for this album was going to be Step Aside Charlie Pride Give Another N___er A Try.

That was one funny story hahaha. Oddly some of Bobby's songs were country-inspired. Especially "Harry Hippie".

vainandy said:

TonyVanDam said:

Blues is black. Country is white. And yet, they sound a lot more like biracial twins in their earlier original form.

I can NEVER hate or diss Ray Charles & Lionel Ritchie for sounding country at times.

And BTW, I'm convince that both genes are older than gospel & jazz.

The reason I wonder which came first is because of slavery. I remember when I saw "Roots" for the first time and saw the character "Fiddler" playing for the slave owner's family and friends. It sounded like country to me but was it what the slave owner previously liked and taught him to play or was it a creation that Fiddler came out with on his own and the slave owner just happened to like it? The white folks would dance around to it but when you'd see the slaves get married "jump the broom" or have a party of their own such as when slavery ended, they danced around to it also so apparently they liked it too.

Then I'd see other movies that would be set in the early 1900s or so, and the black person would play the harmonica which sounded like country or maybe even blues and he would be playing it at a party full of white people.

I've always wondered if whites heard blues, liked it and renamed it country, or if blacks heard country, liked it and renamed it blues. Just going waaaay back and hearing the music, I hear what could be considered country and blues.



I think we better remember that before gospel there was, "Negro Spirituals" ?

Negro Spirituals were songs created by African who where captured and brought to the United States to be sold into slavery. Over the years those slaves and their descendants adopted Christianity. They're songs were reshaped in a deep personal way to express the affects of oppression of their enslavement. . . those songs later became known a spirituals that express their new founded faith. There's no doubt that there has been a lot of mixing going on in terms of bloodlines and culture but African's came to this country with the memory and knowledge of their arts as did Europeans. If you listen to blues Pre- (War World War I) and then go to Congo (for which most Africans were captured) you hear the musical influences still and depending on what area of the South, those African influences were evident unitll World War II / the Great Migration.





[Edited 6/14/10 21:40pm]

TD3 said:

vainandy said:

The reason I wonder which came first is because of slavery. I remember when I saw "Roots" for the first time and saw the character "Fiddler" playing for the slave owner's family and friends. It sounded like country to me but was it what the slave owner previously liked and taught him to play or was it a creation that Fiddler came out with on his own and the slave owner just happened to like it? The white folks would dance around to it but when you'd see the slaves get married "jump the broom" or have a party of their own such as when slavery ended, they danced around to it also so apparently they liked it too.

Then I'd see other movies that would be set in the early 1900s or so, and the black person would play the harmonica which sounded like country or maybe even blues and he would be playing it at a party full of white people.

I've always wondered if whites heard blues, liked it and renamed it country, or if blacks heard country, liked it and renamed it blues. Just going waaaay back and hearing the music, I hear what could be considered country and blues.



I think we better remember that before gospel there was, "Negro Spirituals" ?

Negro Spirituals were songs created by African who where captured and brought to the United States to be sold into slavery. Over the years those slaves and their descendants adopted Christianity. They're songs were reshaped in a deep personal way to express the affects of oppression of their enslavement. . . those songs later became known a spirituals that express their new founded faith. There's no doubt that there has been a lot of mixing going on in terms of bloodlines and culture but African's came to this country with the memory and knowledge of their arts as did Europeans. If you listen to blues Pre- (War World War I) and then go to Congo (for which most Africans were captured) you hear the musical influences still and depending on what area of the South, those African influences were evident unitll World War II / the Great Migration.





[Edited 6/14/10 21:40pm]

True, true.

I'm impressed at the country vibe! I figured this thread would be just as popular as my rock threads - me and RocknrollDave telling each other how great our taste in music is!

Major props to Tony for bringing up Jerry Reed.

RodeoSchro said:

I'm impressed at the country vibe! I figured this thread would be just as popular as my rock threads - me and RocknrollDave telling each other how great our taste in music is!

Major props to Tony for bringing up Jerry Reed.

True. C & W doesn't seem to bee a very popular genre around here so it's nice to see this thread getting some attention. Also, nice that we haven't had any "country sucks" posts yet.

i can't dig the music with ten shovels, but i'm glad to see how generous and caring they are of their fans. that's whassup!

poetcorner61 said:

A Brief History of Black Americans in Country Music

by Michael Shan

Did you know that the black voice twang of country music existed in the early 1900's. Yes, black country singers played "Honky-Tonk" music. Please... Read on, for the interesting history and facts, that the everyday person is unaware of in the country music foundation.

• Fact #1- I bet the first thought that came to mind was the well-known country star "Charlie Pride", was that close?
• Fact #2- Have you ever heard of "Rufe "Tee-Tot" Payne"? I didn't think so...He was a regular around the Greenville,Alabama area and performed as a street musician in the 1920s. In the 1930s he was the mentor to "King Hiram Williams", that's right! The person we would know as "Hank Williams". Believe it or not he was taught to play country music by a black man somewhat unknown to the public. Anyone, out there that has more info on Tee-Tot, I would love to hear it.
• Fact #3- DeFord Bailey was a contemporary of Rufe "Tee-Tot" Payne. In actuality, he is probably and should be the first noted black country music star because he joined the cast of the "Grand Ole Opry" at the age of 26. He had made a number of appearances as other acts on the radio show, and toured cities all across the south and the midwest within several years after the opry scene. He was suddenly let go! This was the statement made by DeFord Bailey in a interview in 1993, “They'd seen the day was coming when they'd have to pay me right and they used the excuse about me playing the same old tunes.” The interview was held by the University of Tennessee Press.
• Fact #4- "Blind Lemon Jefferson", whom was a blind musician had over 400 country hits. The fact is many of the early white country stars got their style and songs from such black artists.
• Fact #5- "J.J. Jones" he performed in the 1970s side bands which backed George Jones, Mel Tillis, and other country stars in the country music business. He once cut a album but it was never released and devotes all his time nowdays backing other black talent.
• Fact #6- "Ray Charles" actually sang country in his early years of music and he loved it till the day he died. He said he liked it because every song told a story.
• Fact #7- "Kurt Cobain" and "Johnny Cash" admired an black artist known as "Leadbelly".
• Fact #8- A huge country music singer sensation in Europe and Germany is a black country singer known as "K.C. Williams".
• Fact #9- Has anyone heard of "Cleve Francis", he was a doctor who took a shot at being a black country singer in the 1990s. Unfortunately, the radio industry didn't give him much success.
• Fact #10- This is just a compiled list of other influences that may be unknown or some you may recognize; Carl Ray, Stoney Edwards,Tayo Reed, Cowboy Troy, Big Al Downing, O.B. McClinton, Author Pamela Foster, Frankie Staton, Vicki Vann, Rhonda Towns, Ebony Hillbillies, Buddy and Tina Wright band , Miko Marks, and of course newcomer, "Darius Rucker". Almost done; I have just a few more interesting facts to take with you.
• "Shanai Twain" is one of the only bands with a black drummer.
• "Aaron Neville" is considered country to some people and he did a video remake of George Jones "The Grand Tour". Coffey Anderson was a black contestant on Nashville Star show.
• "Charley Prides" brother Steven Pride is actually a country singer too! Have you ever heard him play? Please, let me know....
• "Elvis" talent came from where? Your right, the black community around Tupelo, Mississppi.
• Last Fact- The banjo was an African instrument brought over by the slaves. It was modified and has been the mainstream music instrument for what genre? You guessed it! Bluegrass and Country music.

Right now, I have reason to believe that the business men of music row are starting to open their minds and may have hands itching. When, I lived in Nashville for about 10 years, I noticed things and one was how I wanted to tap this industry. I had a very close black friend that left everything behind in his hometown in Texas. Looking back, I wished I could have promoted him and helped change the market. Face it! We live in a country that runs after the almighty dollar. If I was to set aside all other views or could help set aside other views in Nashville, I would be a rich man. Note: Right now, Nashville is changing Trini Triggs has a self-titled album that was released in 1998 by MCG/Curb Records which had 3 singles on Billboard and a 4th single by Asylum -Curb Records in 2004. Carl Ray has songs available on www.carlray.com and Rissi Palmer has a hit song that peaked #54 on Billboard Hot Country Songs and her label is 1720 Entertainment / Universal Music Group. Rissi can be seen on CMT video "Country Girl".

Also, there [was] an inspiring country music artist. His name is " AKON " and he is now a R B star. He supposedly recorded an album under an alias name. He is a big country fan and desires to be the best known black country singer artist of all time. We will have to wait it out and see how it goes...

Rufus Payne was an early 20th century American blues musician from Greenville, Alabama who was more widely known by his nickname Tee Tot.

Payne's nickname of "Tee-Tot" is a pun for "teetotaler". It is said that Payne received his nickname because he usually carried a homemade mixture of alcohol and tea wherever he went.

Tee Tot is best known for being a mentor to Hank Williams, Sr.. It was his influence in exposing Williams to blues and other African American influences that helped Williams successfully fuse hillbilly, folk and blues into his own unique style, which in turn expanded and exposed both white and black audiences to the differing sounds. Aside from Williams' own genius, some of the credit for the success of Williams' career has been credited to Tee Tot, who remained largely unknown outside of southern Alabama in his lifetime, but has now been elevated to iconic status by some due to his mentorship of Williams. "As unfashionable as it was to acknowledge the influence of black musicians, Hank later went out of his way to give Payne full credit." Talking to jazz journalist Ralph J. Gleason the following year, he said, "I learned to play the guitar from an old colored man. … I'd give him fifteen cents, or whatever I could get a hold of for the lesson." Hank acknowledged Payne again during his Greenville Homecoming and apparently searched for him, but Payne had died." Lilly Williams, (Hank's mother) says she fed Payne in exchange for Hank's lessons, but memories of him are otherwise vague. Some say he played the blues alone, others say that he led a little combo that played pop songs and hokum numbers. Irene (Hank's sister) said that Payne once came to Lilly's house and told her that Hank was going to get both of them into trouble by following him around, which seems to imply that Hank was quite determined in his pursuit. "More than anything," said Walter McNeil, "I think Tee-Tot helped Hank get beyond his shyness, and helped him project himself a little, little more, 'cause Hank was a shy person really. He had to lose that somehow, and I think Tee-Tot was a big help to him in doing that." In 1951, Hank told the Montgomery Advertiser that Rufus Payne had given him “all the music training I ever had…”

Key details of Payne's life are still a mystery, his date of birth, mother and father are listed on his death certificate as "Unknown". According to Alabama historian Alice Harp, Payne was born around the year of 1884 on the Payne Plantation in Sandy Ridge, Lowndes County, Alabama.

Hank Williams, Jr. paid tribute to Tee Tot's influence on his father through "The Tee Tot Song" on his Almeria Club album.

Rufus Payne died at a charity hospital in Montgomery, Alabama on March 17, 1939. The age of Payne upon his death was unknown but it was thought at the time that he was around the age of 55 when he died. Payne is buried at Lincoln Cemetery in Montgomery Alabama. His gravesite is unknown but a memorial stands near the entrance to the cemetery.

rialb said:

RodeoSchro said:

I'm impressed at the country vibe! I figured this thread would be just as popular as my rock threads - me and RocknrollDave telling each other how great our taste in music is!

Major props to Tony for bringing up Jerry Reed.

True. C & W doesn't seem to bee a very popular genre around here so it's nice to see this thread getting some attention. Also, nice that we haven't had any "country sucks" posts yet.

I pretty much just stopped listening to it when the community skewered the Dixie Chicks for being a voice of reason.

lastdecember said:

I dont consider Country, even Country. Jewel is now under Country's umbrella,

Why wouldn't she be? It's only because of that bizarre Britney Spears-esque album/mistake 0304. There're distinct characteristics of country in her music, the syrupy twang of her vocal, the occasional banjo plucks and slide guitar. The marketing men would have you believe there's a great musical divide between folk and country that Jewel has traversed but both are pretty much entwined the way I've always heard it. A shift in production don't make the world of difference with such simple musical structures.

[Edited 6/16/10 18:06pm]