I guess the title of this thread is a little misleading since Im not on here trying to ask who's the better artist but I had something interesting happen last Tuesday. About 3 weeks ago, I bought Marvin's LETS GET IT ON album. Prior to that, I had spent about 3 weeks listening to nothing but Marvin's WHATS GOING ON CD...So last Tuesday, Raheem's new CD came out and I took out LETS GET IT ON and put Raheem's new CD in. Now I will say that Raheem's CD is a great CD. He is a great artist, especially for 2010 HOWEVER, the ballads on his album has NOTHING on the ballads on LETS GET IT ON..."Sure Love to ball, Just To Keep You Satisfied, If I Should Die Tonight, Come Get To This" are ..

I guess what Im wondering is why is it that today's r&b artists(Im talking about the good ones, not the trash) cant make you have the same feeling that the songs of Marvin Gaye, Barry, Al, Teddy, Gladys etc could? If you think about it, Raheem is talking about the same thing that Marvin is. Raheem isnt being crass or overtly sexual. He's talking about love and matrimony, etc. But his ballads dont touch you in the same way that those did back in the day. Its like those artists back in the had was able to connect the music to the singing to the actual lyrical content. Im not sure if Im able to spell out exactly what Im feeling but I wonder why is it that today's artists(the good ones like Raheem and others) who make GOOD music just cant give you that UMPH like artists did back in the day.What is it that Marvin did that made him connect more than Raheem?

I think because back then GOOD wasn't good enough. Marvin didn't start out as a great musician, it took him years to craft his talent and bring us "Lets Get It On".

I hear folks say "artists today have it easy", and its far from that Marvin had the chance to develop his craft and he got supported for it from his label, Raheem on the other hand will have to develop his craft on his OWN without nobody's support,,,or throw the towel, like many talented cats of the present day did.

I'm not really a fan of his music, but I wish he keeps it coming

Marvin came from an era where you were allowed to develop your talent. Raheem, like Harley said, is gonna have to find it on his own but "Bulletproof" is decent.

PLUS...

Raheem has nobody really to compete with. D'Angelo is fuckin' with the law, Bilal was supposed to release his "Electro Jazz" project this year but there's still no word about him yet, Maxwell released his album last year after a DECADE(and no telling when will pt.2 be released) Van Hunt went underground and will look like he'll face the same fate as Living Color(releasing albums indie style, or in his case via-internet).

Marvin on the other hand, he had to compete with Sly, Al Green, Stevie, those cats up in Philly and EVEN Miles Davis(who himself changed his direction once he heard Sly & The Family Stone) so you know he had alot on his plate to make him go back and OUTDO himself,,,which really boils down to my point earlier that "Good is simply NOT good enough".

You need the competition to challange yourself.
[Edited 4/18/10 14:45pm]

I think if Marvin was alive today, he'd shake his head at what is viewed as "competition". He'd probably mentor Raheem and folks like that.
[Edited 4/18/10 14:49pm]

To add to this discussion, singers like Marvin, Teddy and to a certain extend, Prince, all focused on the process of making love, instead of what today's artist focus on, which is the result. Another artist and song that comes to mind is Major Harris and his song, "Love won't let me wait". That song song is a perfect example of "I'll take you there"....Today's singers and writers really don't know what that is about.

As Diana Ross once said, "People think you just open your mouth and start singing, it's so much more, there's a lot of hard work that goes into it."

I don't care how much God given talent a singer/musicians has: listen to the music of Frank Sinatra, Aretha Franklin, Ray Charles, Sarah Vaughan, Gladys Knight, and Patti Labelle over the course of their careers, they don't sound anything like they did at the peaks of their respective music careers. It's a process.....

Least not forgett the role of playing music live anywhere and everywhere and often.... thank goodness Black folks went to church.



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[Edited 4/18/10 15:46pm]

TD3 said:

I agree wholeheartedly with you Miss Trina except for the highlighted part

Its not even about "Church" anymore. You have folks like Lady Day who as you know influenced a generation of artists(singers, actors, instrumentalists, painters, you name it) and she didn't even step one foot into the Baptist church, so did Chaka Khan.

Hell, Saudi singer Mohammed Abdu(I dub him the Arab Stevie Wonder) who's not even a Christian STILL manages to dominate the music scene of the middle east today at the age of 60+ who doesn't EVEN shoot music videos while singers who could pass as his grandchildren can't even maintain a longevity despite all the hoopla that back up them, WHY? Because he, like Lady, Chaka(and all the ones you mentioned) weren't content with what they ALREADY delivered(no matter prolific it is), the need to push musical envelopse is still their main objective, hence why they always go back and STILL try to "prove" themselves.

Nothing against D'Angelo, but people always say that he "changed the R&B scene with one album", AND? Stevie, Sly, Marvin, Aretha, George Clinton, Miles changed the music language everytime they released a musical statement,,,ONE wasn't enough.

To his credit though, the man is struggling with alot of demons, coupled with the fact that its almost impossible to endure the pressures of this fickle ass industry.

Harlepolis said:

That pretty much sums it up.

I love Raheem Devaughn's music and I also understand where you are coming from. While listening to Marvin, Al, Bobby (Womack), Teddy, & etc. You do feel that deep down push in the music that puts you on cloud 9. While I do love Raheem, do I feel that same feeling while listening to his music, no I can't say that I do, but as far as today's music standards go, he's definitely a talented artist with something to say. He's the one that people should be over but instead they are doing this with that goat ridden voice Trey Songz who only talks about one thing that has ALWAYS been talked about time and time again. But I do also agree with Harle too, had D'Angelo gotten his shit together by now or Bilal been releasing his 4th or 5th album, Raheem would be more challenged and encouraged to take his talent a step further.
[Edited 4/19/10 4:34am]

Harlepolis said:

I didn't feel like typing on a tiny keyboard, so I'll take the highlight point further as I should've.


I would say irrespective if Holiday, Khan, or Phyllis Hyman lack of involvement with the Black church, they and other Black artist/musicians/sings(especially) were truly in the minority. At that, none of those artist/musicians/sings lived within a vacuum so their music/sound was shaped by those who's roots were in the Black church/community, their roots. You can't speak of African American music without speaking of the church...it's the foundation of the sound and music for all genre's. I would say the vast music education/experience the church once offered had a major impact on the musicianship of artist. That's the point I was trying to make.

This is my opinion of the latest crop of R&B musicians verses the tried and true.

One day I was waiting for a bus and I saw this guy that looked exactly like what Chuck Berry would look like if he were still alive. Same face and all limbs. Couldn't stop looking at him, finally I had to just approach him and say something. Well, Chuck heard it before and didn't think I was strange.
We talked about old Rock and Roll which quickly lead to old R&B. I told him I watched a clip of Chaka being honored and a few singers singing some of her hits and just ruining them.
He said something true. The young girls lack alot of vocal control. I added they really don't want to control their voices, they just want to get it out there. Another thing about the old timers is they seem to enjoy and play off of the instrumentalists. They are the focal point but you can tell that they are feeding off of the band. The new people sound like they are seperate from the band. They are not part of the jam so to speak.
I just got turned on to the sound of Sharon Jones and you can see and hear how musically intimate/interwoven she is with the band. It's a magic that I haven't heard in a long time.

Deadflow3r said:

Chuck is not dead, he is alive and well.

shorttrini said:

OMG I feel terrible. I wish I could take it back. I am beyond embarassed.

Deadflow3r said:

It's cool..We are all family here on the org. We all have made mistakes.

and probably still freaky too

^^ That motherfucker still doing the duck walk at 83. Go 'head Chuck.

Timmy84 said:

thing is we never know , maybe he would be a sell out like quincy jones , letting people ruin whats going on perhaps at a time in his carreer he teamed up with R kelly or so . yeah music today doenst get a chance but hey. its all digital anyway so why botther learning instruments. you hire people to program stuff like that

motownlover said:

I seriously doubt he'll be like Wincy.

Timmy84 said:

I know one thing, he would finally be able to record, El's "All This Love", like he was supposed to and he would knock it out the park.

shorttrini said:

Don't let script read this.

Timmy84 said:

:laugh: El wrote it for Marvin, but I don't know what happened. I know you do, though.

shorttrini said:

Marvin was still in Motown when El wrote it. I think when El wanted to approach him, Marvin was negotiating to leave Motown, which he did in March of '82 so because of that, El was not allowed to give him the song, plus Marvin was in Belgium at the time so it was impossible so he decided to record it with his family. But he kept the Marvin vibe (especially at the end, which was a nod to "Soon I'll Be Loving You Again" from I Want You. )

Timmy84 said:

See, I KNEW you had the inside, scoop!! My Man!!
[Edited 4/20/10 12:17pm]

shorttrini said:

Hey, interviews helped me a lot. I just remember what I hear especially from Motown artists.

Timmy84 said:

I can just hear Marvin sing that.

shorttrini said:

missfee said:

AGREED

I don't know because Im young and Im still discovering the old and classic artists. But, I admit that current artist often sounds more contrived, maybe because they are trying too much "yeah,on my next album Im going to try to go in what's going on direction ect ect"

Cotontige said:

I understand that but like I was saying, I think I would have appreciated Raheem's CD more had I not been obsessing with Marvin Gaye's music for the last month.....Marvin was on such a plateau..