She's far better than Madonna and almost as influential. Give her 5 years.

I concur that Beyonce clearly is a better dancer and singer than Madonna.

And that's why she won't get to Madonna's level, because Madonna scraped and crawled herself to where she is on her limited talent. Beyonce doesn't have the balls Madonna has to take the risks Madonna does. She does, however, have a powerful drive and determination.

If Beyonce would expand her repertoire with some meaningful songs she has a future, but right now most of her catalogue is disposable and can be sung by lil 12-14 year olds, and ber booty shaking dance routines are limited.

Truthfully if Kelly Rowland had some balls, she would have shut Bey down a long time ago!

BklynBabe said:

while I agree that Beyonce is nowhere in Madonna's league in terms of drive, intellect, savvy, etc. (hug Madonna fan), let's not forget when comparing their work that Madonna made her bones on disposable lightweight fare aimed at 12-14 year olds (Holiday, Lucky Star, Like A Virgin, Material Girl, Into The Groove, etc.).

errant said:

While this is true can anyone compare Madonna and Beyonce's 10 first years and find Beyonce better or even on par with Madonna? I don't think so

errant said:

Yes...when she was a young girl, she made songs aimed at young girls. As she grew older she made stronger material.

Beyonce still makes songs comparable to Bills, Bills, Bills.....and she's almost 30. She needs to start thinking of rounding out/upgrading/maturing her sound. She has the talent for it. I think that is what puts many off from her is that she really does have the talent but her schtick is getting very old.

May I also say I heard Michelle singing a gospel song on BET and she shut Bey down too....(I will try to find this on youtube)....

This is why Britney doesn't fare any better either, or Mariah for that matter (in fact, Mariah is a serious downgrade from her Vision of Love years to the swill she puts out now, even with the knowledge that her voice is gone)

BklynBabe said:

a young girl? she was 25 before she ever had one record out.


but I do agree. there is no intellectual maturity or progress exhibited in the work these women are doing. in some cases (Mariah, Janet, Britney, etc.,) they are actually taking steps backward.

again, I'm not arguing that Beyonce is better than Madonna in any way and I never would. I just think it's worth noting that Madonna built her career on silly pop songs and dance trends as well. and that in a lot of ways, there's more value to that stuff than there is to a lot of her more serious, artsy-fartsy, conceptual work as she's tended to disappear up her own arse from time to time.

i like the grading but um....ima set shit off in here and say that Bey has already reached Madge status.


She's done the overseas gigs, had her style and dancing copied, has had imitators, has done movies, got a fashion line () married bigger and better than Madge ever did ( + = $$$$$), she's gotten nominated for GG (okay Madge won hers but come on...she had no competition really) and plus....drumroll please....


todays music lovers are less demanding than what Madge had to deal with so um...Bey wins. She aint got to compete really...thrown was just sitting there all vacant and dusty.


As much shit as I talk about Bey...I kinda like her...3 out of 7 days of the week.


Okay you may throw your bricks now.

DesireeNevermind said:

You really tempt me but I won't, I see the logic in what you are saying. In fact I don't think the question can be answered fairly in a Prince forum mainly because of the demographic of this forum... the vast majority of us are 30+ people who remember the time when Madonna was all over the radio (in fact all over the place as far as media were concerned) and we:
a) either loved/love her so we will say no Bey could never reach her status or
b) either hated/hate her so it could be either they are both equally untalented or Beyonce is (in fact anyone is) better than Madonna.

I don't really think the majority of us can understand what younger people see in Beyonce... I certainly can't I used to like her until 'Irreplaceable' from that single on I find her boring and extremely overrated. I am not among her target age group though so I am not the one she should be concerned about really.

That said, I still think it is pretty fair to say that Beyonce hasn't shown any variety or progress in her sound and she is on her 3rd album already (7th if you count the Destiny's Child stuff). Madonna on the other hand made a huge leap in terms of style on her 3rd album and if we count up to her 7th album, this point becomes obvious.I would say that none knows how Beyonce (or anyone else for that matter) will fare in the future. Who could imagine that Kylie would have such a long career or that Paula Abdul would dissapear that fast? But I think it is pretty fair to say that Beyonce's career so far does not indicate that she could reach Madonna's level one day. If you were asking about Lady Gaga though, that's a whole different discussion

Madonna will always be the number 1 in my book. Others may sing better, dance better, look better but NO ONE will affect people's lives in the same way Madonna has. Beyonce is a great entertainer and will no doubt have a long and successful career but will she effect people and society in massive way? I doubt it.

Madonna has made people feel free to express themselves, be comfortable with who they are and to go for what they want. Not important to some, but to people who feel like outsiders or unsure of themselves, Madonna is a God send! Because of M i feel free to be myself and not to care about what others think of me.

Along with her amazing music and performances, she's an often imitated but never duplicated ICON.

Oh, and she's already a member of the UK rock n roll hall of fame.

Hell, she's not even worthy enough to be the next Vanity let alone the next Madonna for the quality of music alone.

vainandy said:

Awww dayum that's cold as liquid nitrogen!

TotalAlisa said:

Not to be pedantic but "Jump" was from 2005...

...and just because someone has a note perfect voice, doesn't make them great. There are loads of great singers out there that don't have brilliant voices, but they have a special something that your run of the mill karaoke singer doesnt. Bowie, Tina Turner, Bob Dylan, Springsteen, none of them are great singers but you'd recognise their voice a mile away. Madonna is FAR from a great singer but I know her voice when I hear it...unlike the soundalike Pop Idol / X-Factor winners they churn out year after year.

And judging an artist on the basis of "several songs"...not really alot to go on there really. I watched "several minutes" of the film The Hurt Locker last night...can I now dismiss it as rubbish based on this small sample?

TotalAlisa said:

lol...now we're onto "and Madonna's ugly"...and of course the attractiveness of someone isn't a subjective thing is it? And you being a lady you're a good judge of what makes an attractive woman (unless you're are gay, in which case I apologise)....but are we going to dismiss Freddie Mercury as an artist because he's "ugly" as well. And as for the dancing, go check out Madge's career before she broke it, she's a highly trained dancer.

I'm guessing your disliking these artists has clouded your judgment of their work. I can't stand Kanye West, he's a tosser as far as I'm concerned, but I still respect, hell even like, alot of his stuff. Same for Kurt Cobain, couldn't stand him, but the guy had talent and his music spoke for itself.

rlittler81 said:

I agree. Madonna is the GOAT in my book. Her career is the most amazing. She's 10 artists in one. Every album is different. Every tour is different. She wants to give u EVERYTHING. She doesn't let her fans down. She is an artist of the 1st degree. Ppl who say she is talentless wouldn't know what talent was if it slapped them in the face.

This thread is comical.....

Timmy84 said:

BAM!

Broke the platic mannequin and let us hear/see some sincerity 1st.

TotalAlisa said:

This is a JOKE.

Wikipedia says:
Madonna 200million albums
Celine 200million albums
Mariah 175million albums

lolol

TotalAlisa said:

You make it too easy TotalAlisa.

TotalAlisa said:

Umm each example DaveT gave you was from each decade, 80s, 90s and 00s.

WOW several songs you say! How the fuck did you miss any of these on the radio?
Holiday
Lucky Star
Borderline
Like A Virgin
Material Girl
Angel
Into The Groove
Dress You Up
Gambler
Live To Tell
Papa Dont Preach
True Blue
Open Your Heart
La Isla Bonita
Whos That Girl
Like A Prayer
Express Yourself
Cherish
Vogue
Justify My Love
Erotica
Deeper & Deeper
Rain
I'll Remember
Secret
Take A Bow
You'll See
Dont Cry For Me Argentina
Frozen
Ray Of Light
Beautiful Stranger
Music
Dont Tell Me
Die Another Day
Me Against The Music
Hung Up
Sorry
Jump
4 Minutes

All of those were huge songs in many countries, to have only heard "several" songs since the 80's is IMPOSSIBLE.

xperience319 said:

Madonna is by far the best selliung female artist of all time. Those numbers are a joke. In fact, had Michael not died and continued to remain inactive, she may have been able to become the biggest selling SOLO artist of all time.

Celine and Mariah r no where close. Don't believe those fake #s.

NEVER.

I admittedly get sick of Madonna´s overexposure sometimes but she IS a true artist, nonetheless.

Beyonce just isn´t.

sleepyq said:

I thought Madonna's numbers seemed a little low. can u provide a more accurate number?

You really tempt me but I won't, I see the logic in what you are saying. In fact I don't think the question can be answered fairly in a Prince forum mainly because of the demographic of this forum... the vast majority of us are 30+ people who remember the time when Madonna was all over the radio (in fact all over the place as far as media were concerned) and we:
a) either loved/love her so we will say no Bey could never reach her status or
b) either hated/hate her so it could be either they are both equally untalented or Beyonce is (in fact anyone is) better than Madonna.

I don't really think the majority of us can understand what younger people see in Beyonce... I certainly can't I used to like her until 'Irreplaceable' from that single on I find her boring and extremely overrated. I am not among her target age group though so I am not the one she should be concerned about really.

That said, I still think it is pretty fair to say that Beyonce hasn't shown any variety or progress in her sound and she is on her 3rd album already (7th if you count the Destiny's Child stuff). Madonna on the other hand made a huge leap in terms of style on her 3rd album and if we count up to her 7th album, this point becomes obvious.I would say that none knows how Beyonce (or anyone else for that matter) will fare in the future. Who could imagine that Kylie would have such a long career or that Paula Abdul would dissapear that fast? But I think it is pretty fair to say that Beyonce's career so far does not indicate that she could reach Madonna's level one day. If you were asking about Lady Gaga though, that's a whole different discussion[/quote]


I completely agree. But im 14 and i prefer madonna's music over beyonce's any day. While i think Lady GaGa probably has a better chance of reaching Madge' s status and i do like her, but she still is sorta a cheap copycat of madonna
I mean have you heard Bad Romance, in the middle when she's talking you can't tell me it doesn't sound like Madge a lil bit

xperience319 said:

Well it is all estimations really because none can know the sales in certain countries and even the accurate US sales prior to 1991 but according to UKMIX which is a pretty reliable website on such stuff it must be something like:
1)Madonna around 300m
2)Celine Dion around 220m
3)Mariah Carey around 200m
4)Whitney Houston around 180m
5)Barbra Streisand around 170m
6)Janet Jackson/Britney Spears both around 110m

The figures are worldwide estimations including both albums and singles

jiorjios said:

midiscover said:

Well those are not my figures... you can go over there and watch how they estimate them but if you have any complains I am not the one to mock I didn't make them I just post them.

xperience319 said:

Albums:

1. The Beatles- 360 mil (13 mil in 2009)
2. Michael Jackson- 236 mil (31 mil in 2009)
3. Pink Floyd- 196 mil
4. Elvis- 190 mil
5. Madonna- 190 mil

11. Celine Dion- 165 mil
13. Mariah Carey- 149 mil
15. Barbara Streisand- 142 mil
16. Whitney Houston- 137 mil

55. Britney Spears- 73 mil
58. Sade- 72 mil
59. Janet Jackson- 70 mil

http://www.chartsinfrance...us-de-30m/

And that's just albums. Madonna is by far the best selling female singles artist. She'd sold more singles than MJ before he died, now, I'm not so sure. I believe Elvis and The Beatles were the only 2 artists who'd sold more singles than Madonna. MJ has probably passed her now with all the big sales after he died.

The distance between she and MJ had been greatly exaggerated. She had sold more singles, he'd sold more albums. She left the rest of the female artists in the dust, her real competition was MJ.

midiscover said:

What's funny about it? Britney has sold the same, if not more albums than Janet worldwide.

Janet has always been local, so her sales r significanly lower than other female icons. It is what it is.

sleepyq said:

OK so this list kind of confirms my list then:P

sleepyq said:

I'm gagging at the inflated numbers and Janet has sold about 130 million worldwide.