HrdwcH said:

DAMN

Being a lover of Afro-funk, this is the icing on the cake

Harlepolis said:

Tell me you knew about "Soul Makossa" though

http://www.youtube.com/wa...JU#t=2m53s

Cinnie said:

I honestly didn't the melody sounds fimiliar(as I'm sure it was sampled MANY times coupled with the obvious JB hint) but no, this is my 1st time hearing it in full and the artist behind it.

There's some helluva DIGGIN' that needs to be done

phunkdaddy said:

See reply 46....

Harlepolis said:

That song was the start of a lot of stuff actually lol

Harlepolis said:

Herr...??? Am I reading correctly? YOU DIDN'T LISTEN TO THIS SONG FULLY UNTIL RECENTLY?!

murph said:

Meh. They do a Time chant for 20 something seconds in the song
and that means their sound is Time based. Not hardly imo.
True disciples of the Minneapolis sound will let you know that
in the Prince Music and Associated artists sections.

phunkdaddy said:

I never said it was a Time rip-off...I said it was more of a nod to the "Time" sound along with the early rap stuff they were doing...But there was nothing "swinging" about their sound...


Here's another "Time" nod from Full Force..If you can't hear it, that's on you....("Old Flames Never Die")

http://www.metacafe.com/w...sic_video/

I'm saying all this because I get the feeling some folks here are trying to downplay the impact Teddy Riley made on the music scene in the late '80s and early '90s...Trust me, I remember when acts like Ksshif, Full Force, Midnight Star, Starpoint, Atlantic Star, act, ect were doing there thing....And I can tell you when that Keith Sweat album (produced by Teddy Riley) came out, R&B was turned upside down...That was a game-changing album....Guy's debut was game changing, Bobby Brown's "My Perrogative" was a change-changing single...

That's Teddy Riley in a nutshell....He even made the biggest pop star in the world switch it up (Michael Jackson...)....To say that other folks were doing New Jack Swing is just plain revisionist history...
[Edited 3/21/10 0:15am]

LittleBLUECorvette said:

I prefer 2 call it sampled funk (and disco!), tho!

murph said:

Besides... most folks don't know that Teddy Riley programmed "The Show" by Doug E Fresh, so there's your early swing beat style by the man himself.

HrdwcH said:

Funk/disco/hip-hop/R&B/jazz/Motown = new jack swing in a nutshell

Timmy84 said:

yeah but... that's an amazing fusion and it really was new

I wonder when Teddy produced "The Show" and all those Kool Moe Dee songs before forming Guy, did he think he was going to do what he eventually did? Like did he even know he was making history of any sort?

Cinnie said:

Well yeah it was something new and fresh, just saying lol

Cinnie said:

Indeed....(good point)...Most folks don't know how important Teddy was to the evolution of hip hop....

Didn't he also produce "La-Di-Da-Di" too?

Timmy84 said:

sayin' though, it is unique to all that history

TR had the vision

murph said:

I totally agree.

First of all, unlike Bobby Brown (or New Edition for that matter, at least up to a point) Guy was never a pop act. A different phenomenon than Bobby Brown. You NEVER saw "Groove Me" for example getting the kind of MTV airplay that any of Bobby's records did in 1988. Guy was a black act doing very cutting-edge black music. Like others before them too numerous to mention had done when black music got stagnant and diluted (the Freddie Jacksonification of R&B was major phenomenon in the 80s), Guy shouldered the historical load of black music and culture and took them forward and in so doing reoriented the funk to express black lifestyle and aesthetics and ambitions for a (primarily)black audience in a new historical era. And they were extremely popular in so doing - "Guy" went three if not four times platinum. They did not have to cross over to achieve this success (in a Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis "Control" sort of way) and let's be very clear here - the level of success Guy achieved put Kashif and Full Force and whomever else to shame. It was orders of magnitude more significant and some of the comparisons being made here of certain acts to Guy or Teddy Riley in terms of importance are really unfair to the parties who AREN'T Guy or Teddy Riley. FWIW, I personally love Kashif BUT having lots of great hit records and an instantly identifiable sound and CHANGING the course of music and culture at a critical historical juncture - those are two very different things.

seriousfunk said:

Good points...And for the record I dug a lot of Kashif stuff...His production work on those Evelyn Champagne King singles were dope...He is one of the unsung heroes of early '80s R&B....

Timmy84 said:

I don't think he got official producer credit for programming "The Show" either, but anyway

what's to produce on La Di Da Di "mic's on?" lol

Cinnie said:

Maybe Slick Rick "produced" it.

murph said:

I don't think anyone is downplaying Teddy's role in the NJS movement,in fact
in one of my earlier posts i stated he led the movement but Full Force
planted the seeds. I guess we can all go back and forth on this according
to how we see it. Teddy Riley only produced one single off of Keith Sweat's
debut I Want Her. Yes he was the producer of that era as he even produced
Starpoint's final album If You Got What It Takes; however the best single
Midnight Love wasn't produced by Teddy. I would go so far as to say that
his best work outside of Guy and BB's My Perogative was MJ's Dangerous
album. The problem with Teddy eventually like other r&b artists of that
era is that they wanted to be the rappers instead of the singers. Not to
mention that Teddy's own ego became the downfall of his groups Guy/Blackstreet.
[Edited 3/21/10 13:34pm]

phunkdaddy said:

I feel u...But what I'm saying is Full Force had nothing to do with New Jack Swing...They planted as much of a seed to the the sound as did Kashif...Which means virtually little....What they (Full Force, Kashif and others) did, however, is extend R&B's sound, which is always needed when you are dealing with the evolution of any musical genre...They should be given their props for that..

But not as much as Teddy....

And again, where are you getting your info about Sweat's Make It Last Forever from? And you say you are not trying to downplay Riley's impact?....lol

Here are the songs produced on that album by Teddy...As you will see it was more than just one song:

"Something Just Ain't Right" (Keith Sweat/Teddy Riley)
"Right and A Wrong Way" (Sweat/Riley)
"Tell Me It's Me You Want" (Sweat/Riley)
"I Want Her" (Sweat/Riley)
"Make It Last Forever" (featuring Jacci McGhee) (Sweat/Riley)
"How Deep Is Your Love" (Sweat/Riley)

Riley basically produced the entire album except two songs ("In The Rain," and "Don't Stop Your Love")...And yes, he produced virtually ALL the singles....

My point with bringing up all those other early '80s R&B acts before Teddy single handedly created the New Jack Swing sound was to underline the point that his musical impact simply meant more....And Teddy's ego wasn't the downfall of Guy...It was Aaron Hall going crazy...lol...As for the other stuff about R&B acts wanting to be rappers, that has little to do with what we are talking about...

Peace....
[Edited 3/21/10 15:29pm]

I for one am not trying to downplay anything about Teddy, nor am I trying to measure NJS by its impact at the hands of certain producers. Again, refer to my references about MJ, Aretha, and Elvis. I’m stating that whether you believe he actually created NJS depends on how you define NJS---as a music genre that first merged hip-hop and r&b, or Teddy’s brand of that genre that blends hip-hop and r&b. Because he wasn’t the first to do it, and he incorporated elements from those before him.

The Show is not a NJS track. There’s nothing R&B about it. It’s pure hip-hop Full Forces’s "Alice", "Unselfish Lover", "Unfaithful" (all from '85 and '86), etc. etc. are r&b and hip-hop. MJ’s Dangerous is the first (to quote Andy) shit-hop record. It’s the prototype for all other hit-pop records that followed in the late 90s and early Y2Ks by N’Sync and Justin, Britney, DC3 and Beyonce, etc. In that regard its fair to say that NJS never died, it was just transformed into something else…the music you hear by most of today’s chart-topping mainstream artists.

Guy’s debut (produced by Teddy and Gene Griffin), Bobby Brown’s Don’t Be Cruel (produced by the LaFACE team sans “My Prerogative”), and N.E. Heartbreak (produced by the Flyte Tyme team) were all released in the SAME MONTH of the SAME YEAR! That means all 3 albums were in production during the same period, too. All 3 albums qualify as NJS, as does Al B. Sure’s debut also released that year. Yes, Teddy co-produced a track on there also, but the album was produced by Kyle West and Al .

Adisa said:

I define NJS as the style of music created....That's about it...And whoever said "The Show" was NJS?...Certainly not me...lol

As for Bobby Brown, everyone knows that the Don't Be Cruel album totally took off when "My Perrogative" was released as a single...that song helped the album sell about 4 million more copies...

murph said:

Then we agree on both points. And since The Show is not NJS why'd you bring it into the disussion? We're discussing NJS, not how great Teddy is.


Again, we're discussing NJS and its origins, not how many hits Teddy was involved in. He is clearly the King of NJS. Nobody can deny that.

I think all of us can agree with this: Teddy is indeed the king of new jack swing.

Adisa said:

I wouldn't call Bobby Brown's album a NJS album. My Prerogative and I'll be Good To You are the only songs that fit the bill. Babyface had his own style.

Full Force was an important production group but they didn't have that New Jack Swing sound. To my ears they were more reliant on drum beats whereas Teddy emphasized those keyboard/synthesizer sounds.
[Edited 3/21/10 18:17pm]

murph said:

Check the credits on line. He and Keith Sweat co wrote most of the
songs and Teddy co produced some of the songs. He wasn't the sole
producer of the album like you are trying to credit him. Keith Sweat was basically the project's main producer. I even remember Keith Sweat saying
this on Video Soul during his debut album. Please check the album
credits. Teddy is credited as co producer on half the songs.

Timmy84 said:

yes, that and the fact that he's my bitch of new jack swing!!!! Peace bitches!