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PrintableGaryMF said: trueiopian said: I don't think Madonna was doing it either before Janet came out with Control. At least, I don't recall seeing any videos of her doing straight choreo with back up dancers. [Edited 2/17/10 19:09pm] I guess you never saw the video to "Lucky Star"?? She didn't kickstart the trend with that video, though. There was no intense choreography. | |
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GaryMF said: trueiopian said: I don't think Madonna was doing it either before Janet came out with Control. At least, I don't recall seeing any videos of her doing straight choreo with back up dancers. [Edited 2/17/10 19:09pm] I guess you never saw the video to "Lucky Star"?? What part of straight choreography with backup dancers do you not understand? Stepping from side to side with 2 dancers isn't what I'm talking about. | |
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VoicesCarry said: GaryMF said: I guess you never saw the video to "Lucky Star"?? She didn't kickstart the trend with that video, though. There was no intense choreography. The person who brought it up said she didn't do straigh up choro with back up dancers. not did she "kickstart" the trend. Just pointing out that Madonna did in fact do what the poster said she did not. And if we're going to talk about kickstarting the trend of intense chorogreography with back up dancers, Michael is the one who created that trend. And other artists picked up on it way before Janet (Pat Benetar "Love is A Battlefield", Donna Summer "She works hard for the $" etc.) Did Janet perfect and was she the first female artist to do it as well as her brother?? Of course!!!   |
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GaryMF said: sosgemini said: Well Gary, this arguement that your arguing against is just as silly as the argument that Janet did not set the trend that allowed for Jody...especially when we have sited historical references (and articles) that point it out.
Everybody is coming off looking like they, what was it you typed, "ig'nant"? I aint even gonna waist an eyeroll emoticon. Only 1 TV show and 1 article has been CITED..... nevertheless..... I think the reality lies somewhere in between, or put another way, the following statements are NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE: 1) Jody Watley had her own career and developed it in her own unique way/style 2) Janet had an enormous amount of success with Control and RN 1814 (in fact more success than Jody in terms of $, sales etc.) and likley Janet's success helped create momentum that only reinforced Jody's career. Gosh this is starting to be like the Prince/Wendy & Lisa debate that comes up all the time. Poeple don't seem to get that 2 artists can both be successful and influence each other without denegrating the other. and more can be cited. That article a few pages is just one of many that cites Janet as an influence on Jody's career. 1) Her SOLO career revolved around Janet's whether you like to admit it or not. 2) Fact. | |
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GaryMF said: VoicesCarry said: She didn't kickstart the trend with that video, though. There was no intense choreography. The person who brought it up said she didn't do straigh up choro with back up dancers. not did she "kickstart" the trend. Just pointing out that Madonna did in fact do what the poster said she did not. And if we're going to talk about kickstarting the trend of intense chorogreography with back up dancers, Michael is the one who created that trend. And other artists picked up on it way before Janet (Pat Benetar "Love is A Battlefield", Donna Summer "She works hard for the $" etc.) Did Janet perfect and was she the first female artist to do it as well as her brother?? Of course!!! Not my intention to incite an argument. Just pointing something out. | |
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trueiopian said: GaryMF said: I guess you never saw the video to "Lucky Star"?? What part of straight choreography with backup dancers do you not understand? Stepping from side to side with 2 dancers isn't what I'm talking about. Drop the attitude. And stop changing your definition with each reply. First it's back up dancers, next it's a troupe of dancers.... then it will be who inspired the first Korean Prisoner Dance Tribute. And I'm sure if you ask Madonna she'd say her dance steps in Lucky Star were "straight choreography" or are you going to come up with a new definitoin and say it had to be insipred by Alvin Ailey or traditoinal ballet? WTF |
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trueiopian said: GaryMF said: Only 1 TV show and 1 article has been CITED..... nevertheless..... I think the reality lies somewhere in between, or put another way, the following statements are NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE: 1) Jody Watley had her own career and developed it in her own unique way/style 2) Janet had an enormous amount of success with Control and RN 1814 (in fact more success than Jody in terms of $, sales etc.) and likley Janet's success helped create momentum that only reinforced Jody's career. Gosh this is starting to be like the Prince/Wendy & Lisa debate that comes up all the time. Poeple don't seem to get that 2 artists can both be successful and influence each other without denegrating the other. and more can be cited. That article a few pages is just one of many that cites Janet as an influence on Jody's career. 1) Her SOLO career revolved around Janet's whether you like to admit it or not. 2) Fact. I think it's fair to say the marketing template for Janet influenced her success. I disagree that her career "revolved around Janet's". I think that insults the great work she did as her own artist - one I feel is quite distinct from Janet. | |
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trueiopian said: GaryMF said: Only 1 TV show and 1 article has been CITED..... nevertheless..... I think the reality lies somewhere in between, or put another way, the following statements are NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE: 1) Jody Watley had her own career and developed it in her own unique way/style 2) Janet had an enormous amount of success with Control and RN 1814 (in fact more success than Jody in terms of $, sales etc.) and likley Janet's success helped create momentum that only reinforced Jody's career. Gosh this is starting to be like the Prince/Wendy & Lisa debate that comes up all the time. Poeple don't seem to get that 2 artists can both be successful and influence each other without denegrating the other. and more can be cited. That article a few pages is just one of many that cites Janet as an influence on Jody's career. 1) Her SOLO career revolved around Janet's whether you like to admit it or not. 2) Fact. Look up the definition of "fact". And while you're at it, call Andre and tell him his former wife's entire solo career REVOLVED around Janet and see what he says. SHould be interesting. |
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GaryMF said: Drop the attitude. And stop changing your definition with each reply. First it's back up dancers, next it's a troupe of dancers.... then it will be who inspired the first Korean Prisoner Dance Tribute. And I'm sure if you ask Madonna she'd say her dance steps in Lucky Star were "straight choreography" or are you going to come up with a new definitoin and say it had to be insipred by Alvin Ailey or traditoinal ballet? WTF Where did I change my definition?  I think you should chill.
When I say straight choreography backed with dancers I mean this - A full out routine with various moves and backed with dancers. Not whatever the fuck Madonna was doing in "Lucky Star". | |
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GaryMF said: trueiopian said: and more can be cited. That article a few pages is just one of many that cites Janet as an influence on Jody's career. 1) Her SOLO career revolved around Janet's whether you like to admit it or not. 2) Fact. Look up the definition of "fact". And while you're at it, call Andre and tell him his former wife's entire solo career REVOLVED around Janet and see what he says. SHould be interesting. Andre? WTF are you talking about?  | |
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trueiopian said: GaryMF said: Look up the definition of "fact". And while you're at it, call Andre and tell him his former wife's entire solo career REVOLVED around Janet and see what he says. SHould be interesting. Andre? WTF are you talking about? Andre Cymone, Jody's producer, eventual husband and a protege of Prince. | |
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VoicesCarry said: I think it's fair to say the marketing template for Janet influenced her success. I disagree that her career "revolved around Janet's". I think that insults the great work she did as her own artist - one I feel is quite distinct from Janet. Right. I'm speaking from her record label's point of view. I'm she's a great artist there's just no denying that she was marketed to be the "next Janet phenomenon". | |
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VoicesCarry said: trueiopian said: Andre? WTF are you talking about? Andre Cymone, Jody's producer, eventual husband and a protege of Prince. Um okay.... I guess | |
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It's so live in here!! 
Since it has become a Janet thread thought I would share that Janet's new song "Nothing" will be leaked soon. | |
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trueiopian said: VoicesCarry said: I think it's fair to say the marketing template for Janet influenced her success. I disagree that her career "revolved around Janet's". I think that insults the great work she did as her own artist - one I feel is quite distinct from Janet. Right. I'm speaking from her record label's point of view. I'm she's a great artist there's just no denying that she was marketed to be the "next Janet phenomenon". I honestly would be more comfortable saying that about someone like Pebbles or Nia Peeples than Jody. To me, Jody had a distinct sound, style, dancing technique, etc. JMHO. I think Janet helped enable Jody's success - and the success of a lot of other black women - particularly at Top 40 radio (Whitney had also made significant progress in that area by 1986). But as far as being marketed as the "next Janet phenomenon", that implies that Jody was moulded by the label to be more like Janet than she actually was. When I look at Jody's videos, I don't see Janet in them. Do I see Janet cutting a song or video like Still a Thrill in 1986? Not a chance. And when we get to Jody's second album (released prior to Rhythm Nation) and third album (probably her best and most artistic), any comparisons really diminish.[Edited 2/17/10 23:48pm] | |
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KI!! @ unique and different. Stop 
She was really just a hybrid of Janet and Madonna. Y'all are doing way too much by dismissing Janet's influence. It's right before your eyes. | |
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midiscover said: KI!! @ unique and different. Stop
She was really just a hybrid of Janet and Madonna. Y'all are doing way too much by dismissing Janet's influence. It's right before your eyes. No, people simply disagree with you. Embracing another artist does not mean you are denying Janet's influence - rather, respecting the contributions of both. Obviously I have no reason to deny Janet's influence, given that I'm one of her biggest fans. [Edited 2/18/10 0:15am] | |
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Voices Carry: Your last couple posts are spot on. Thank you!
And for the record, I'm a HUGE Janet fan.... and acutally own more/listen more to her stuff than Jody's. But that doesn't mean I'm going to act like Jody woulda been nothing without Janet or Control. She brought her own thing tot he table. And as she stated on her MySpace--and bring it back to Jody whom this thread was about--Jody popularized the phrase "Hasta la vista baby" way before Arnold did in Terminator..... (unless soeone's gonna say Janet started that trend too! LOL) |
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sosgemini said: Vendetta1 said: Honestly I must have missed it Nick. What historical references and articles? I do not understand how it is possible that Jodi would not have been dancing in her videos considering that is what she always was.
I mentioned an MTV show that aired in the 80's that discussed all the artist that followed Janet's trendsetting, someone else posted an article where a media pundit brought up Jody in a discussion about Janet. It's just silly, IMHO, for people to deny the basic business 101 that is involved with studio's A/R. Janet (exibit A) made a crap load of money for it's label and other A/R peeps looked into their files for similiar artist. Aint nobody saying Jody is identical or ripped off Janet, just that Janet set the musical trend that allowed for artist like Jody, Paula, Nia Peeples, Karen Wight and Shanice. Heck, Shanice was even produced by Janet's managers and they made no qualms about the fact they were trying to create another "Janet" phenom. Again, this has nothing to do with trying to copy Janet but everything to do with replicating a label's success with a similarly "themed" artist. It's like trying to discount that Suzie Q, Regina, Samantha Fox and others weren't being pushed as the next Madonna. But, I'm done with this conversation. I'm out. Exacty!  will ALWAYS think of  like a "ACT OF GOD"! N another realm. mean of all people who might of been aliens or angels.if found out that wasn't of this earth, would not have been that surprised. R.I.P. |
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trueiopian said: Vendetta1 said: You guys can state your OPINIONS until the cows come home and it does not make them true. And I did not say her being part of Shalamar meant she was ahead of Janet. Mainly because I cannot fathom why they are being compared in the first place. Being that Jody was dancing on Soul Train since the 70s and that she was dancing as part of Shalamar means TO ME that it makes sense she was dancing in her videos.
Pill started this video because he just liked the song. Every thread here does not have to turn into some "how Janet Jackson is God" thread. And for the genius that "tried" to crack on me about house music, I've been into house music for 26 years now. And the fact does not change that Throb came out way after Jody had reached her peak of fame. Madonna was dancing in videos three or four years before Janet came out. Maybe Janet owes her success to Madonna.  and of course you're back in here. I thought you bowed out?
Kudos to you for being into house for 26 years. No one said Throb came out before Jody's peak. The person that brought it was simply stating that Janet has done house music. Was Jody doing straight choreography with back up dancers before Janet came out with Control? Nope. I don't think Madonna was doing it either before Janet came out with Control. At least, I don't recall seeing any videos of her doing straight choreo with back up dancers. [Edited 2/17/10 19:09pm] Exactly! that is exactly what I meant. will ALWAYS think of like a "ACT OF GOD"! N another realm. mean of all people who might of been aliens or angels.if found out that wasn't of this earth, would not have been that surprised. R.I.P. |
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sosgemini said:
It's like trying to discount that Suzie Q, Regina, Samantha Fox and others weren't being pushed as the next Madonna.
Stacey Q, Regina and Samantha Fox, compared to Jody Watley? Quite a stretch. These 3 were newcomers with very little talent propped up by their labels to try and emulate Madonna. Jody already experienced success, and her album (like Janet's) was fueled by the increasingly popular "Minneapolis sound" dance/pop/funk hybrid that had been percolating on the charts for several years. Jody might not have had the same success as Janet, but she by no means should be lumped into the category of forgotten one-hit wonders like Regina and Stacey Q, who were brazen attempts to piggyback on Madonna's style and success. [Edited 2/18/10 9:47am] * * *
Prince's Classic Finally Expanded The Deluxe 'Purple Rain' Reissue http://www.popmatters.com...n-reissue/ | |
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VoicesCarry and GaryMF, your posts are definitely on target here. I'm a big Janet fan, but I can't believe the ridiculous lengths the Janet-lovers have gone to in this thread to prove that their opinions are fact (no one else's views or opinions matter). Funkpill posts a great song/video by Jody Watley and Janet fans feel the need to completely discredit any talent or success that Jody ever had (or apparently didn't have). Yes the success of Control LESS THAN A YEAR before Jody's debut definitely helped enable Jody's success. But that's FAR from labeling Jody a corporate Janet clone, like you're making her out to be. I don't really feel the need to try and prove my point (site references, belittle other artists and other people's opinions). I really think Watley's talent spoke (back then) and still speaks for itself. There's no need to hijack this thread in order to put Janet up on a pedestal and make yourself feel better.
My favorite part of this thread is the Janet hijackers stating their opinions... um, excuse me... facts, and then telling others to "let it go" when opinions that weren't congruent with theirs were thrown in the mix. Unbelievable. Funkpill, thanks for posting the video. Glad to see there are Jody fans on here. I'm just glad Janet was nice enough to influence Jody with her Rhythm Nation stuff two years after this video appeared. | |
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GaryMF said: Voices Carry: Your last couple posts are spot on. Thank you!
And for the record, I'm a HUGE Janet fan.... and acutally own more/listen more to her stuff than Jody's. But that doesn't mean I'm going to act like Jody woulda been nothing without Janet or Control. She brought her own thing tot he table. And as she stated on her MySpace--and bring it back to Jody whom this thread was about--Jody popularized the phrase "Hasta la vista baby" way before Arnold did in Terminator..... (unless soeone's gonna say Janet started that trend too! LOL) It's sad that the Janetbots don't get that. Don't laugh at my funk
This funk is a serious joint | |
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pzlyprk said: VoicesCarry and GaryMF, your posts are definitely on target here. I'm a big Janet fan, but I can't believe the ridiculous lengths the Janet-lovers have gone to in this thread to prove that their opinions are fact (no one else's views or opinions matter). Funkpill posts a great song/video by Jody Watley and Janet fans feel the need to completely discredit any talent or success that Jody ever had (or apparently didn't have). Yes the success of Control LESS THAN A YEAR before Jody's debut definitely helped enable Jody's success. But that's FAR from labeling Jody a corporate Janet clone, like you're making her out to be. I don't really feel the need to try and prove my point (site references, belittle other artists and other people's opinions). I really think Watley's talent spoke (back then) and still speaks for itself. There's no need to hijack this thread in order to put Janet up on a pedestal and make yourself feel better.
My favorite part of this thread is the Janet hijackers stating their opinions... um, excuse me... facts, and then telling others to "let it go" when opinions that weren't congruent with theirs were thrown in the mix. Unbelievable. Funkpill, thanks for posting the video. Glad to see there are Jody fans on here. I'm just glad Janet was nice enough to influence Jody with her Rhythm Nation stuff two years after this video appeared. Unbelievable isn't it. Don't laugh at my funk
This funk is a serious joint | |
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@ this being like RN1814. Who the fuck said that? She disappeared once RN1814 was released. I wonder why... 
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First off, this is my favorite Jody song.
Secondly, Jody was a good artist and we don't even need to discuss the undisputable talents of Mr. Cymone. Thirdly, WTF is this Jody vs. Janet shit? You can tell the younguns on here. Let me reassure you all that no one was having the "Jody is ripping off Janet" conversation in 86-87. NO ONE. This is some retrospectively viewing pulled-out-of-the-ass commentary. Jody was high fashion/classy. Janet was "hip". Jody was avant garde R&B and Janet was pop. If you could take this thread conversation back to 87, everbody would laugh at it. | |
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Stans 
Who cares if Jody was marketed to be the next Janet? Many artists were/are. So what's the point of bringing it up? Sure she was influenced by Janet like many artists but again what's the point of bring it up? We all know Janet is better in every way possible but there's no need to bring it up and start fan wars all the time. | |
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BlaqueKnight said: First off, this is my favorite Jody song.
Secondly, Jody was a good artist and we don't even need to discuss the undisputable talents of Mr. Cymone. Thirdly, WTF is this Jody vs. Janet shit? You can tell the younguns on here. Let me reassure you all that no one was having the "Jody is ripping off Janet" conversation in 86-87. NO ONE. This is some retrospectively viewing pulled-out-of-the-ass commentary. Jody was high fashion/classy. Janet was "hip". Jody was avant garde R&B and Janet was pop. If you could take this thread conversation back to 87, everbody would laugh at it. THANK YOU!!!!! now let's lock this thread up... | |
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Let's just leave a Jackson outta this thread, hmm? I swear we Jackson fans fall for the bait. EVERY TIME someone mentions a JACKSON'S name, we wanna argue with them.
Jody is Jody and Janet is Janet. None comparable. And I'm a big fan of Janet so whatever I love Jody too.  | |
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BlaqueKnight said: First off, this is my favorite Jody song.
Secondly, Jody was a good artist and we don't even need to discuss the undisputable talents of Mr. Cymone. Thirdly, WTF is this Jody vs. Janet shit? You can tell the younguns on here. Let me reassure you all that no one was having the "Jody is ripping off Janet" conversation in 86-87. NO ONE. This is some retrospectively viewing pulled-out-of-the-ass commentary. Jody was high fashion/classy. Janet was "hip". Jody was avant garde R&B and Janet was pop. If you could take this thread conversation back to 87, everbody would laugh at it. I wouldn't call what Jody was doing avant garde. Yes, she imitated Grace Jone's vocals but that doesn't dub her as avant garde. Plus her fashion was very Madonna. Janet was more than "hip"
I'm just rambling now
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