DesireeNevermind said:

But now lets take this the other direction, how does MJ's doctor know he's an addict?? The tabloids? The rumours? The speculation, why should he have to know that? I mean do we know that he didnt tell him the risks of this drug? Again not saying he isnt a blame, all these doctors are, drugs like this AND all the ones on your tv daily including AMBIEN which is a motherfucking drug people. People need to realize that just because it comes in a bottle with your name on it doesnt mean its not a drug, its a drug, so prescribing ANYTHING to an addict, whether its something risky or whether its cough fucking medicine, should be a crime then if something results from it, you cant take one down without making this law of the land

babybugz said:

what was your knowledge of propofol before mj died? are you in the medical profession? i mean that as a genuine question, not an accusation. i had never heard of propofol, not having had surgery. if you're familiar with it, beyond what the talking heads have said - because lord knows they went to extraordinary lengths to make mj the a**hole whenever possible during his lifetime - then i want to hear what your opinion is.

i hear people say, 'well, it's not supposed to be administered outside of a hospital, everybody knows that.' then i'll read about the dentist who knows murray and who admits to using it on his patients. isn't his office outside a hospital and isn't he a dentist? i thought you should be an ana---ologist(can't remember how to spell it) in order to administer it? so which is it?

on the whole, i agree with des-nevermind. it's one thing to point at a drug addict and saying he should be more careful not to have been dealing with an enabler (let's assume mj was an addict, and again we have chopra and family on the one hand saying yes, and meseareau and raymone bain saying no on the other). did mj consider murray his enabler, or someone who was supposed to help him? did murray say that he would be his fix, or that he would help cure him? the doctor took an oath. he says he recognized that mj had 'unusual problems'. well, what did he do? he buried his head, forgot his oath, forgot that there are medical procedures for dealing with addicts, and then was extremely lacksidaisical in his care of mj that night, and likely other nights as well.

it will interesting to see how the prosecutors counteract the sentiment that mj was to blame for his death.

lastdecember said:

You make a good point regarding prior medical history. I don't know how it works with a celebrity personal physician who only has one client but normally doctors look at medical record history; they have to before they can assess where the patient is with regard to treatment for an ongoing ailment/problem. I wonder if it could be law of the land on a state by state basis.

kibbles said:

I never heard of it period , I should have edited it lol but no I never heard of it.

babybugz said:

okay, so we're all just going by what we've heard the talking heads say. see, on the one hand i understand that, but on the other hand i don't.

yes, the drug is not *generally* used outside a hospital. BUT isn't that because people don't generally have ventillators, drugs that can reverse the effects, etc. at home? if murray had had the right equipment to revive mj at home, would it have made a difference that he was using it in a home environment?

as to the propofol itself, it is used to knock you out before the doctors give you the real drugs to sedate you. mj wanted the propofol to knock him out b/c supposedly the sedatives couldn't work right unless he was out first. so was the doctor administering the drug improperly? maybe not. did he administer too much? it seems so, according to the coroner.

And therein lies the reason why the enablers are guilty and responsible for his death. Once a person is a full blown drug addict...there is no reason, no clarity, no sense of right/wrong and life/death. You can't explain to a drug addict that this or that will kill them....all they can accept (until they have a moment of lucidity and sobriety)

I just want all this BS to be done

Drug addict or not....MJ likely did not want to die and leave his children nor would he have embarked on a 100 show performance if he intended on killing himself.

Durg addict or not....MJ's is not responsible for his death, his doctor is. Murray swore a hippocratic oath to "first do no harm" and to ethically practice medicine. He violated the basic tenets of his profession and he knowingly and willfully prescribed a dangerous medication to drug addicted patient all for some paper/$$. Propofol, according to many reports, is not a sleep aid nor is it to be used outside of a medical facility. Murray knew what he was doing and he knew better than his patient. The fucker needs to go to jail....yesterday!

728huey said:

Amen! As horrible as this dude is for enabling, you have to be enabling someone. So if this goes through and jail time and manslaughter and all that, you are gonna see NONSTOP law suits when doctors operate and someone dies, lawsuits when an actress or actor "tops off" because they are on 9 different kinds of LEGAL drugs. At the end of the day, Michael was an addict, if the doctor goes down for enabling, you know what, anyone who knew he was using should go down too, that goes for his friends, trainers and family

DesireeNevermind said:

Some of what you saying is true but I just can't believe Michael didn't know propofol could be dangerous for him . I don't understand what would make someone use that for sleep , come on common sense His death is so stupid smh

My wife brought this home to me recently. After 7 months of despair, worrying about murder, manslaughter and conspiracy, i now think very differently. At the end of the day, as much as i love Michael, he had three devoted children, as a caring parent, he should never have taken himself down this slippery slope again, he was an addict back in the day and i don't think in a position of responsibility and care, he should have gone down that dangerous route again, especially just to get some sleep.

He died because of his own naivety, he should never have allowed this suspect Doctor to do what he did, but Murray seems to have had Michaels trust and permission. It's not suicide or murder, it pains me to say this, but i think ultimately it might very well be Michael's own fault he is gone, he shouldn't have relied on drugs, or this Doctor, but it seems he did.

Murray will get off.