violetblues said:

This.

I just hope we get the truth of what happened so everyone can move on

thedance said:

he admitted to giving michael what killed him so intentional or not he's the killer.

Vanilli said:

I'm sure some hardcore MJ fans who are in the same prison would make shanks and get him in the yard, or some bathrooms, no doubt. If he's convicted, I hope his cell mate is a gigantic man obsessed with MJ. He wouldn't have a chance....They should send him to that prison in the Philippines. ....

WaterInYourBath said:

I am surprised nothing has already happened to him, I wouldnt be shocked if he didnt make it to court there are some scary crazy fans out there and to alot of people it appears as if nothing is being done. Though alot of the anger seems to be being aimed at a few people rather than just at Murray.

What annoys me is that he had his medical licence taken off him not because of the fact one of his patients died in suspicous circumstances but because he didnt keep up with his child support .

b3xy said:

My sentiments exactly.
[Edited 2/3/10 1:36am]

Jackson family wants harsher charge against doctor

By THOMAS WATKINS and LINDA DEUTSCH, Associated Press Writers Thomas Watkins And Linda Deutsch, Associated Press Writers – 48 mins ago

LOS ANGELES – Michael Jackson's family believes involuntary manslaughter charges against the pop singer's physician would be "just a slap on the wrist," attorney Brian Oxman said Wednesday.

Oxman told CBS' "The Early Show" that Dr. Conrad Murray displayed recklessness in dispensing powerful drugs to help Jackson sleep, warranting a second-degree murder charge. Involuntary manslaughter — the charge prosecutors reportedly plan to seek — carries a maximum jail sentence of just four years.

"That is just a slap on the wrist, and a slap in the face, because Michael Jackson was someone who we knew was in danger of being brought to his knees, brought his death, by the use of these medications," Oxman said.

Murray's attorney said the doctor is ready to surrender to authorities if prosecutors file charges. While there is no public timetable for charges to be filed against Murray, there are strong indications the move is imminent.

Murray, who has a practice in Houston, came to Los Angeles last weekend and spent Tuesday afternoon meeting with his newly assembled team of three lawyers. The district attorney's office has not said if it will file charges but lead defense attorney Ed Chernoff said Murray is ready for such a move.

"I haven't received any phone call from anybody asking for the doctor to surrender," Chernoff said. "If we get the call, we'll be happy to."

A law enforcement official last month told the AP that prosecutors had decided to seek a grand jury indictment on an involuntary manslaughter charge. On Tuesday, a second law enforcement official said prosecutors were sticking with the charge but planned to file a criminal complaint to avoid the appearance of secrecy in the closely watched case.

Both officials requested anonymity because they are not authorized to publicly discuss the case.

David Walgren, the deputy Los Angeles County district attorney handling the case, declined to comment.

Jackson, 50, hired Murray to be his personal physician as he prepared for a strenuous series of comeback performances in London. His death on June 25 in Los Angeles came after Murray, tending to Jackson in the star's rented mansion, administered the powerful anesthetic propofol and two other sedatives to get the chronic insomniac to sleep, according to the Los Angeles County coroner's office, which ruled the death a homicide.

Propofol is only supposed to be administered by an anesthesia professional in a medical setting. The patient requires constant monitoring because the drug depresses breathing and heart rate while also lowering blood pressure, a potentially deadly combination.

Murray, a cardiologist, has maintained from the outset that nothing he gave the singer should have killed him. Administering propofol to Jackson wasn't illegal, so prosecutors must show Murray deviated from accepted medical norms when he administered it in a non-medical setting while Jackson already had other sedatives in his system.

A criminal complaint would pave the way for a preliminary hearing in the case, where a judge would publicly hear evidence and decide if it should go to trial.

Such a hearing would provide a valuable glimpse into the strength of the government's case and could help Murray determine if he should negotiate with prosecutors for a plea deal, said criminal defense attorney Roger Rosen, who is not a part of the case.

"You get a flavor for what you are dealing with," he said.

Chernoff recently hired attorneys Joseph Low, who has worked in the media spotlight representing Marines accused of wrongful killings in Iraq, and J. Michael Flanagan, who represented Britney Spears in a hit-and-run case.

Los Angeles Police Department investigators spent months gathering evidence, with detectives talking to numerous medical experts to determine whether Murray's behavior, which included talking on his cell phone and leaving Jackson's bedside, fell outside the bounds of reasonable medical practice.

To bring a manslaughter charge, prosecutors must show there was a reckless action that created a risk of death or great bodily injury. If a doctor is aware of the risk, there might also be an issue of whether the patient knew that risk and decided to take it.

Murray was in dire financial shape when he signed on as Jackson's doctor, owing a total of at least $780,000 in judgments against him and other payments. Low declined to comment on what financial arrangements the lawyers had made to represent Murray.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/a...son_doctor

dag said:

While they were sucking down all the milk and honey provided (indirectly and directly) by Michael I wonder what role if any they played in ever trying to get him some serious help.

violetblues said:

bboy87 said:

Pretty much.

WaterInYourBath said:

enabler/dealer... Michael Jackson's addiction killed him

WaterInYourBath said:

And Dance to smooth criminal routine

lol at move on you keep posting in MJ threads you haven't moved on that much but I agree though. I don't think anything is going to happen to that doctor *shrugs*

Drug addict or not....MJ likely did not want to die and leave his children nor would he have embarked on a 100 show performance if he intended on killing himself.

Durg addict or not....MJ's is not responsible for his death, his doctor is. Murray swore a hippocratic oath to "first do no harm" and to ethically practice medicine. He violated the basic tenets of his profession and he knowingly and willfully prescribed a dangerous medication to drug addicted patient all for some paper/$$. Propofol, according to many reports, is not a sleep aid nor is it to be used outside of a medical facility. Murray knew what he was doing and he knew better than his patient. The fucker needs to go to jail....yesterday!

My wife brought this home to me recently. After 7 months of despair, worrying about murder, manslaughter and conspiracy, i now think very differently. At the end of the day, as much as i love Michael, he had three devoted children, as a caring parent, he should never have taken himself down this slippery slope again, he was an addict back in the day and i don't think in a position of responsibility and care, he should have gone down that dangerous route again, especially just to get some sleep.

He died because of his own naivety, he should never have allowed this suspect Doctor to do what he did, but Murray seems to have had Michaels trust and permission. It's not suicide or murder, it pains me to say this, but i think ultimately it might very well be Michael's own fault he is gone, he shouldn't have relied on drugs, or this Doctor, but it seems he did.

Murray will get off.

728huey said:

Amen! As horrible as this dude is for enabling, you have to be enabling someone. So if this goes through and jail time and manslaughter and all that, you are gonna see NONSTOP law suits when doctors operate and someone dies, lawsuits when an actress or actor "tops off" because they are on 9 different kinds of LEGAL drugs. At the end of the day, Michael was an addict, if the doctor goes down for enabling, you know what, anyone who knew he was using should go down too, that goes for his friends, trainers and family

Ponder this:

How did MJ become aware of propofol and who was the first to prescribe it to him? Mike wasn't a trained doctor or pharmacists or even chemist. Whatever info he obtained about drugs and their effects was given to him by the physicians who were supposed to have his best interest in mind. I don't care if Murray was the first or the last drug dealer....he bears the responsibility for MJ's death. Again....he knew better. Are doctors to be absolved of crimes just because their patients have money and prior drug history? In that case, the docs who contributed to Anna Nicole's death should never be charged and found guilty. Any street drug dealer who gives lethal crack or heroine should never go to jail...in fact they should never be arrested period because it's not their fault that people use drugs. Too much emphasis I think is on the fact that Mike had a drug problem. My question is....so what? Did he deserve to be given a drug that would surely kill him? Did he deserve a doctor that didn't have the balls and professional diligence to say no to his requests for more drugs? Murray needs to be imprisoned whether the charge be manslaughter or murder and whether he serve 3 years or 15. He needs to pay.

DesireeNevermind said:

But if one goes down then they all do, the 15 doctors that prescribed Anna Nicole's menu, the Docs who gave Heath drugs, the docs who gave Brittany Snow drugs etc...the thing is if you do for one you gotta go all the way with this. So someone like Steven Tyler who has had a history of addiction, has back pain and his doc gives him painkillers and now Steven is addicted to painkillers again, thats on the doctor, and if god forbid Steven od's the doc started the ball rolling once again. You see, im not saying this doc and the others arent liable but the elephant in the room is that you are a grown up, and we all know that Michael had addiction problems, and we all KNOW that his friends knew he was doing this, shit then the freaking maid goes down too, because she knew this wasnt legal outside of a hospital. The thing is that numerous people have said Michael searched for a way to get this drug, he knew WHY it wasnt allowed in Rite Aid and places like that, yes the Doctor is guilty, but so is Michael as tragic and harsh as that sounds, Michael had a problem, and no one stepped in.

DesireeNevermind said:

Some of what you saying is true but I just can't believe Michael didn't know propofol could be dangerous for him . I don't understand what would make someone use that for sleep , come on common sense His death is so stupid smh

lastdecember said:

BINGO.

And therein lies the reason why the enablers are guilty and responsible for his death. Once a person is a full blown drug addict...there is no reason, no clarity, no sense of right/wrong and life/death. You can't explain to a drug addict that this or that will kill them....all they can accept (until they have a moment of lucidity and sobriety) is that they need their fix right now. You'd probably have more success explaining logarithms to a 4 year old then convince an addict to stop using. I've heard that addicts have to go through rehab at least 3 times before they have any success.

MJ needed to sleep. Like I said, the doctors KNEW better. Murray could have called in an addiction specialist but he didn't becasue ( I believe) he wanted to keep getting paid. Murray could have reported MJ to the cops for his illegal prescriptions- someting, anything to stop his downward spiral. Now with his family and friends, there are claims that they tried to do an intervention but I don't what method they used because they certainly failed. I see what you're saying about how everyone could be blamed and the negative impact on the medical profession but still....doctors have to start being caregivers and professionals and stop being pansies to celebrities.

lastdecember said:

People were worried about keeping their jobs instead of Worrying about Michael sadly.

babybugz said:

god love him, i think mj was *hopelessly* naive.

propofol is a commonly used, and safely administered drug, so common that 1) it's not even a controlled substance and 2) i'm sure that mj had had it before and murray had used it before. hell, even a dentist who says he knew mj and murray uses it in his practice. i don't think i'm hopelessly naive, but if a doctor that i trusted was assuring me that he would safely administer the drug and not to worry, i'm not sure i would listen to a slight wacky 'nutrionist' like cheryl lee over him.

still, yes, i think his death was truely avoidable with better people around him.

babybugz said:

do drug addicts have common sense? you've got addicts out there who will sell their children for a fix. that's why I say the doctor knew better and therefore if he continued to supply then he's responsible for MJ's death. A person who is in full addiction is not likely to adhere to any warnings especially if those warnings are not hammered into them. I don't think Murray ever told MJ that propofol could kill him and if he did then he's still an ass for administering it anyway. Substitute propofol for rat poison and you will see what an ass/murderer Murray is.

DesireeNevermind said:

I never heard of anyone using propofol for that period.

DesireeNevermind said:

But now lets take this the other direction, how does MJ's doctor know he's an addict?? The tabloids? The rumours? The speculation, why should he have to know that? I mean do we know that he didnt tell him the risks of this drug? Again not saying he isnt a blame, all these doctors are, drugs like this AND all the ones on your tv daily including AMBIEN which is a motherfucking drug people. People need to realize that just because it comes in a bottle with your name on it doesnt mean its not a drug, its a drug, so prescribing ANYTHING to an addict, whether its something risky or whether its cough fucking medicine, should be a crime then if something results from it, you cant take one down without making this law of the land

I think the saddest parts of all this as y'all have pointed out is that Michael was probably naive into who he could trust and what he thought this Propofol would do to his body. And also that no one was there to help him in his time of need. Family and friends will try to say "well you can't help anyone who can't help themselves" but that's what the relatives of Marvin Gaye, Andy Gibb, Phyllis Hyman, and Elvis Presley said and either they died of drug overdose or something far more horrendous (Marvin's shooting death). Now Michael joins them regardless if he was "addicted" or not.

Timmy84 said:

Sad. I was hoping he wouldn't end up like them too , I think about what he said in the moonwalk book about celebrities dying young he didn't have a clue.

The bottom line is that this whole thing is totally senseless. Michael Jackson was a 50 year old man, not a 5 year old child. Naivetee is probably the wrong word to describe him....

babybugz said:

what was your knowledge of propofol before mj died? are you in the medical profession? i mean that as a genuine question, not an accusation. i had never heard of propofol, not having had surgery. if you're familiar with it, beyond what the talking heads have said - because lord knows they went to extraordinary lengths to make mj the a**hole whenever possible during his lifetime - then i want to hear what your opinion is.

i hear people say, 'well, it's not supposed to be administered outside of a hospital, everybody knows that.' then i'll read about the dentist who knows murray and who admits to using it on his patients. isn't his office outside a hospital and isn't he a dentist? i thought you should be an ana---ologist(can't remember how to spell it) in order to administer it? so which is it?

on the whole, i agree with des-nevermind. it's one thing to point at a drug addict and saying he should be more careful not to have been dealing with an enabler (let's assume mj was an addict, and again we have chopra and family on the one hand saying yes, and meseareau and raymone bain saying no on the other). did mj consider murray his enabler, or someone who was supposed to help him? did murray say that he would be his fix, or that he would help cure him? the doctor took an oath. he says he recognized that mj had 'unusual problems'. well, what did he do? he buried his head, forgot his oath, forgot that there are medical procedures for dealing with addicts, and then was extremely lacksidaisical in his care of mj that night, and likely other nights as well.

it will interesting to see how the prosecutors counteract the sentiment that mj was to blame for his death.