Izzy had just as big role as Slash did. Slash just had a more memorable image and he was the lead guitarist.

And can I add that "BROTCH" is a great (new?) word for a man bitch. As not to confuse it with Broach, I'm pronouncing it like "Crotch", which is even funnier and ironic.



.
[Edited 1/25/10 8:40am]

novabrkr said:

That's what I'm saying

ernestsewell said:

There's nothing ironic about that, your use of the word "ironic" is incorrect. It's ok though, a lot of people have trouble understanding the concept of irony. You're not alone, Ernest.

Jakeasaurus said:

You're so boring and predictable. But at least you excel at something.

My use of the word was correct, by the way.

rmartin70 said:

@ "no infants"

noimageatall said:

"No alcohol" - EXCEPT ON STAGE! Dorks.

ernestsewell said:

Right...and no alcohol for the infants either.

noimageatall said:

Well that's no better!

they both look all kinds of nasty-gutterbut-soap allergic....but uh....i gotta roll with Slash.

in other news...people who like music found somebody else to listen to...

ernestsewell said:

Cut it out you two and leave each other alone

Fuck Axl Rose.
Slash is the MAN!

Slash and Axl together are iconic, but I have to say Duff is one hell of a bassist.

ernestsewell said:

I see your point but there's no denying that a large part of what made Appetite For Destruction such a powerhouse rock classic is Axl's phenominal vocals. And Slash is the man who came up with the awesome riff of Sweet Child O Mine and those stunning solos on November Rain.

I'm not dismissing the other members. I agree Izzy was a great songwriter - Don't Cry is a fantastic song. But then Buckethead does some completely insane guitar work on Chinese Democracy but I'm not about to go out and buy his solo work...

It's not hero-worshipping to say Axl Rose and Slash were the main reasons for GNR success. The reason they stood out from the others has nothing to do with their postitions at the forefront of the group, nor is it to do with Slash's iconic look and Axl's public image. It is because they were both absolutely outstanding at what they did.
[Edited 1/26/10 4:05am]

Pertaining to the name in Axl's own words:
So let's start here... the whole Axl wouldn't go on stage yada yada... is complete and utter crap.
Never happened, all made up, fallacy and fantasy. Not one single solitary thread of truth to it. Had that been the case I would've have been cremated years ago legally, could've cleaned me out for the name and damages. It's called under duress with extenuating circumstances. In fact the time that was mentioned the attorneys were all in Europe with us dealing with Adler depositions.
Couldn't talk sooner as it could have jeopardized whatever nonsense was going on.
When Guns renegotiated our contract with Geffen I had the bit about the name added in as protection for myself as I had come up with the name and then originally started the band with it. It had more to do with management than the band as our then manager was always tryin' to convince someone they should fire me. As I had stopped speaking with him he sensed his days were numbered and was bending any ear he could along with attempting to sell our renegotiation out for a personal payday from Geffen.
It was added to the contract and everyone signed off on it. It wasn't hidden in fine print etc as you had to initial the section verifying you had acknowledged it.
Now at that time I didn't know or think about brand names or corporate value etc. All I knew is that I came in with the name and from day one everyone had agreed to it being mine should we break up and now it was in writing.
I still didn't grasp any other issues until long after I'd left and formed a new partnership which was only an effort to salvage Guns not steal it.
In my opinion the reality of the shift and the public embarrassment and ridicule by others (which included a lot of not so on the level business types he was associating with at the time) for not contesting the rights to the brand name, were more than Slash could openly face. Also we aren't lawyers or formally business educated so it was just a matter of all of us being naïve and doing what we thought was right at the time. Slash was imo being on the up and up in agreeing I had the rights and I wasn't trying to be some snake in the grass pulling a fast one. The others could've cared less.
But when the reality of the breakup hit and the strategy to have me crawl back was put into play Slash had to save face and get business team and public support. Painting me as the one who held a crowd hostage forcing the others to sign over the name worked out pretty well in that regard. I'm the bad guy and Duff, the fans and most importantly himself were the victims. Oh and they had actually made the sacrifice for the crowd, the people, the fans at the show. But again.... IT NEVER HAPPENED.
.....
Axl was the only member of the original line-up without a major drug problem. He was far more driven and ambitious than the other guys. Slash is a great talent but he did not have what Axl had. As has already been pointed out, most of the riffs on Appetite were created by Izzy, Slash did the lead. For evidence of Slash's average rythym playing check out his solo albums (don't get me wrong there's a few gems on there) Izzy was the biggest flake out of them all, he didn't quit guns he just vanished and no one knew where he was. The only reason he got clean when he did was because he was on probabtion for taking a piss on a plane and would have gone to JAIL had he not quit. Duff drank til his pancreas EXPLODED. The drummer Alder had s STROKE because of his drug problem.
I'm sure Axl isn't perfect but for everyone to act like he wasn't the overall driving force behind the band and actually destroyed the band just isn't fair.
Slash had a great look, yes he's a great lead player but he was not a bigger part of Guns 'n' Roses than Axl.

MattyJam said:

While I know about Buckethead's craziness on guitar, and his almost prolific nature in songwriting, and his talent overall, he isn't part of the GnR sound that people have come to know. That is Slash, and Izzy, as guitarists. Buckethead w/ Axl is just "Axl Rose featuring Buckethead".

ernestsewell said:

You guys do know that Buckethead has not been in the band since 2004, right? Axl kept most of his solos on Chinese Democracy even though he was already out. I do not blame him , his guitar playing on the album is incredible.
[b][Edited 1/26/10 11:58am]

Axl may have been the only sober one in the band, but he was/is batshit crazy and in my book, that is far worse than any drug problem.

Izzy and Duff were both more integral to the creative side of Guns than Slash, albeit they weren't focal points in an "image" sense.

Also, remember the nonsense that was Get In The Ring? Far worse than anything on Chinese Democracy but proof that Axl was up his own ass way before the split. If anything I'd reckon he's a little humbler today and has made contact with Duff and Izzy since.

elmer said:

Duff wrote Get In the Ring by the way. Axl has said, and I beleive him, that recording the Illusions was a nightmare of diplomacy on his part. Slash, Izzy and Duff all refused to work on certain songs if they weren't allowed to sing lead or include their own pet songs. If Axl was such an egomaniac would he have allowed Duff and Izzy to sing lead vocals? In Slash and Duff's last band, Velvet Revolver Soctt Weiland didn't want anyone but him recording BACKING vocals let alone leads. Personally I think Izzy was tolerable but Duff has no business singing in any context, he's beyond horrible. Axl was in tears when he finally got through via phone to Izzy when he disappeared and pleaded with him for hours to come back to the band and finish the tour.
I lost any respect for Slash and Duff when they told the press these lies about Axl about refusing to go on stage unless they signed over their rights to the band name. He could never have gotten away with that, never. Duff even tried to blame Axl for his pancreas exploding because he had nothing to do but drink when Axl would go on stage late.
If you want to criticize Axl criticize him for taking the stage late, for diving into the crowd to attack a bootlegger, for walking off stage in a huff at certain times or recording the offensive lyrics in the song "One in a Million". It's hard to justify claims that he's crazy when he was seemingly the only one who took respsonsibility.
As far as Slash merch being banned from concerts, that doesn't come from Axl. It comes from Promoters who are scared he'll walk off the stage. Slash turned up at a House of Blues gig in vegas and was turned away for the same reason. Not because Axl had instruceted security to be on the look out for him but because the promoter got scared that if Axl saw him in the crowd he would leave or worse.
On a side note, one of my favourite's of Axl's on stage digs\rants was at a show in Germany in the intro to Double Talkin Jive "Hmmm this is funny, this is a song Izzy wrote... that's actually about him! Double Talking Jive Motherfucker"
[Edited 2/3/10 8:42am]

rainman1985 said:

According to Wikipedia twas written by Rose, Slash and McKagen....my copy of Illusion2 is in storage at the moment so I can't check.

I agree that the others deserve their share of flak, and to me Axl was the main cog of the bands former greatness anyway, but even though Duff singing Attitude live was an aural pain I thought So Fine and his backing on It's So Easy sounded great.

A indiscretion of MrRose you neglected to mention was the rapping that he'd tag onto Rocket Queen, it was included on one of the Live In Tokyo vids, though I'd rate the lycra shorts as a greater offense to human decency than any of those you put down

CocoRock said:

Axl called this BS.
Most on the people on this org have no right to talk crap about this band.
GN'R will always be Izzy, Slash, Axl, Duff, and Steven in my heart. It's really sad the egos couldn't patch there differences. The split had deep and ugly wounds exchanged.

I saw metallica with gnr opening twice in LA it was insane fun ..

elmer said:

That song signified the rebellious spirit GNR were notorious for. They have always been like that, up 92.
I reckon Axl is no humbler than he is today than before, considering he's taken no interest to made ammends with Slash- but instead call him a cancer. & by the way he knocked the lights out of that papperazzi a couple weeks ago i can't blame him on that one though.

CD was full of autotune, quadrillions of layers that ran uncomplimentary together, and nu metal soon to be outdated guitar solos. & worst of it all had the prestigious Guns N' Roses title claiming all it's (lack of) glory.

Get In the Ring's sheer raw power though guitars hooked up into none other but trusty JCM Marshals (not 234283 pedals, fasers, whammys ect) , and Axl's voice running through nothing but his iron lungs (not of a computer generated filter) is what makes Get In the Ring in a whole seperate catagory different of CD.
The lyrics are a whole unclassy yet inspiring FU to the media stirrin up sh** and talkin lies about they're life. It nonetheless made the band sound and FEEL like a band should, 5 guys who have eachother backs, united whom are about to tear down all status quo.
Now GN'R consists of a bunch of hired hands.


Izzy = 1/5
Duff = 1/5
Slash = 1/5
Duff = 1/5
Steven = 1/5
Axl = 1/5
That's what it was. No other was more "integral" than the others.
Too bad Axl saw himself as 3/5th though.
[Edited 2/4/10 15:23pm]

JesusFreak said:

I said creatively integral, which Adler hardly was.
Maybe 2.5/th?

CD had some good songs on it like Madegascar and Better that wouldn't hold a flame on the UYI's but were still better than GITR surely, like that was okay for me at the time but today makes me cringe. The CD tracks in demoish form that were about years ago were preferable to what he released, but still a solid album I think.

elmer said:

Creativity was found in ways through the rock n roll spirit/attitude, something not only all 5 guys had, but Adler espcially embodied.
It takes a certain groove to play the unique happy-go-lucky beats on AFD, it just came natural to Adler

I guess everyone has a different ear when it comes to certain music. Street of Dreams and Catcher were the only notable songs on that Axl's album for me.
Guns will only be accepted in my book as the once was honest and dangerous band they were.

Well yeah it's subjective, but the criticism was excessive because it was Axl. Sunk pretty quickly.


Listening to Duff's latest Loaded album at the mo, s'pretty good y'know, proper melodic punky rock and much better than Velvet Revolver. The "supergroup" coming-togethers like them and Audioslave never really got it sorted, both their debuts had good singles but albums loaded with filler.

I know Chinese Democracy doesn't have the same authentic band-feel that old GNR used to have, and I do miss that a bit - but I'm not going to just right it off because of that.

The first three tracks are absolutely insane, particularly Shackler's Revenge. Buckethead never ceases to shock me at his incredible playing. It's a shame he's no longer in the fold.

I really couldn't care less about the line-up changes - Axl is still as charasmatic as a frontman and incredible as a vocalist as he always was and this really shines through on the record.

And when I start to miss Slash or Duff's influence I just listen to Velvet Revolver. That first album was one of the best rock albums I've heard in years (unfortunately the second one was a pile of crap).
[Edited 2/6/10 1:35am]

Anyone who says there's no passion in the guitar solos on CD just isn't listening. Forgot about Buckethead, the guy with the most solos on there is Robin Finck, listen to his parts on This I Love, Prostitute, Sorry... the list goes on. Personally I felt the weakness of CD was in the uptempo tracks. I dig Riad N' the Bedouins but Shackler's Revenge, the title track and Scraped (awesome intro though) just don't do it for me. There Was a Time, Better, This I Love, Prostitute and If The World (these two tracks are growers, they are not very conventional) are awesome and so well put together they don't just hold up after multiple listens, they get better.